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  1. 7 points
    Lets try and move onto something more positive. I think there are some (gasp) reasons for optimism right now. For a few reasons. Almost every team is bad at drafting and developing goalies I looked at each NHL teams drafted goalies from 2005 through 2014 drafts. This covers ten drafts over the cap era without getting into guys who are still developing. I considered any goalie with at least 100 NHL starts as a success. 207 goalies were drafted over those 10 years. 16% of them played 100 games or more. Remove the career back-ups and your at 11%. Remove the guys who broke out with another team and you are at 9%. A third of the league went 10 drafts without getting an NHL goalie, just like Calgary (though Brossoit will likely break the 100 game mark, just not with Calgary). The point is, Calgary isn't unique in our lack of finding NHL goalies in the draft, and our struggles don't translate to a permanent curse. Tampa drafted and developed the best goalie in the NHL. They have drafted 28 goalies over the entire franchise and that was their only hit to date. We have a number of prospects worth paying attention to We have had prospects to get excited about in the past. I get the 'fool me once' tone, but its been a bit since we have had two AAA prospects and prospects across multiple levels. (NHL) Vlader was only moved due to to congestion in Boston's crease (sound familiar) and was moved versus losing him on waivers. He looked great 4 of the 5 NHL games he started for last season (and 5 was a throw away). His pro numbers are really good, and its tough to find many in the know who don't think this guy has NHL upside. A lot of Boston fans are really upset they lost him. (AHL/Junior) Wolf's numbers are insane. The Hockey Writers have him ranked as the 4 best goalie prospect in the NHL (one spot behind the guy who caused Vlader to be traded to Calgary), and that is pretty consistent across the league. Most prospect rankings have Wolf as our fourth best prospect, behind our three first round picks. If he wasn't a bit on the short side (for a goalie) he would be ranked higher. I know that height is an issue, but he isn't that short. Saros, Halak, Quick, Grubaur, etc are all similar height. (Others) Lets face it, the best goalies are often the ones we didn't expect. Sergeyev is a great dark horse prospect. He has passed every test handed to him, he just needs some tougher tests. Chechelev has put up some good numbers in Russia and is making his way to NA. Parsons was highly touted as a prospect before injury, but he rebounded well in the ECHL last season. I keep hearing good things about Werner even though his resume doesn't really scream future NHLer. I get that every team has these types of prospects, and most won't work out. But the Flames have a lot of bullets in this gun significantly improving the chance at a hit. The point is we will have valid prospects at the NHL level, AHL level, and one representing each of the last three drafts. Two of those prospects are highly ranked, with one of them listed as one of the best goalie prospects in the NHL. Meanwhile, we have no need to rush any of them as we have a legitimate NHL starter in net. Don't worry, be happy .... I know enough not to overplay the goalie hand. Its possible none of the guys above work out. But I can't remember the last time Calgary was this flush in legitimate NHL players and prospect at the G position. The history is a concern, but as I said above, that isn't unique to Calgary and some of the best goalies in the league were drafted and developed by teams who historically struggle doing that. I think goal tending prospects is an area of strength for the organization right now. It certainly isn't inline with the general tone of this thread.
  2. 5 points
    Go for it. If you follow other teams for as long as you've followed the Flames you'll find the exact same thing unless you jump from ship to ship. You make it sound like this is a Flames specific problem. I'm almost 40, teams I've never seen win the cup: Maple Leafs, Senators, Canucks, Sabres, Sharks, Jets/Coyotes, Thrashers/Jets, Wild, Panthers, Bluejackets, Predators, Flyers. 5 of those I've never seen in the finals. Then are teams that have existed before me that have only won 1 cup in my life, Blues, Capitals, Rangers, Stars, Whalers/Hurricanes, Bruins. Add in the Rangers have only won one cup in both mine and my dad's life despite never struggling to attract top free agents. Any team that has had success has had periods of being dreadful. Wings had a 40 year drought, Blackhawks 39 years, Kings 40+, Penguins probably wouldn't even exist if not for a couple generational players. This is sports, as bad as you think you have it there are plenty of fans just as depressed as you are.
  3. 4 points
    Well, Sir, I will keep my eyes open for you. I don't mind shipping something out to you if there's a deal to be had! Love.
  4. 4 points
    Hey @rocketdoctor - today I got a smokin' deal at a local shop in Calgary. It's not a hoodie, but I wasn't looking for one... I strolled into a Sport Chek, and this was 50% off the yellow tag price, so it was $30! I wasn't in the market, but it was too good a deal to leave behind. I did a quick Canada Post search for a shipping rate based on a package that was 30x30x10, and weighed 1kg. There are seven options, with International Surface being the least expensive. It might take awhile to get to England, but the lowest rate was $28. I don't know if you'd be interested in something like that, but if you are, I don't mind picking one up and sending it your way. Also, I posted it here in case anyone local is looking for a good deal on a jersey. They have some blanks, and some Johnnys. Love.
  5. 3 points
    First game of the exhibition season. 7pm at the Dome Two Flames I'm most interested in tonight are Vladar and Pelletier.
  6. 3 points
    God yeah. I'm not on the fence, there is no fence.lol Let's talk about reffing! Want a tear down and rebuild? Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Want Eichel? Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Want a 1st Rd draft goalie? Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. We aren't working in absolutes here. It's easy to be a contrarian to any stance, because there is never a right way. But for me, I like what we've done. My #1 complaint last year was a lousy bottom 6. A lousy mix of low IQ, go-thru-the-motions players. No identity. Which team do we get today? They couldn't deal with any adversity, just stayed the course of doubting themselves, it seemed. Adding Pitlick, Richardson, Lewis, Coleman, for me, are important adds. 4 guys that won't float around with their thumb up their Hash Rate wondering what to do. I think that's important. I literally gave up watching last year's pathetic mess of a roster. I like this roster A LOT better. It doesn't make me right, but I can get behind it. Question for everyone. What did you want our offseason changes to be?
  7. 3 points
    it was entirely George Canyons fault for putting the team to sleep with his rendition of the anthems
  8. 3 points
    Good people here. Very good people here. Just another example of it. Kudos Heartmelter.
  9. 3 points
    Zac Rinaldo also won't vaccinate, so Columbus won't allow him in camp. Duncan Keith probably had a change of heart once he found out Alberta is paying $100, and Mike Smith we all know just doesn't handle shots well.
  10. 3 points
    Tkachuk’s comments make me think he has every intention of signing his QO next year and walking right out the door as a UFA. Probably best To move him now if possible. He doesn’t sound like a team guy in this case.
  11. 3 points
    This. This is being over simplified and being presented in a binary argument and that's what bothers me about this debate. I don't think it as simple as saying this way or that way is the right way because it ignores way too many factors. Boston is a good example to hold up of a team built for long term success without a high pick, but that ignores that fact they got a likely Hall of fame center in the 2nd round. How often does that happen (spoiler alert.... it doesn't). It's easy to say "well then draft better" but that ignores that it's not like these opportunities are available in every draft. You don't get players the level of of Bergeron or Kucherov outside the top 10 as frequently anymore. New York Islanders, as already pointed out used a #4 pick to gain Barzal but also got Barzal because he had an injury his draft year. How often does a top 5 talent drop due to injuries (it happens but not every draft). They've also got a perfect match of GM, coach and roster that isn't always easy to do. People will say "sure it is" but what's interesting in including the Islanders in this category is several years ago (before Trotz) the Islanders would have been a case to hold up to say tanking doesn't work. They bottomed out and weren't any good. Yes you have teams like the Oilers, Leafs and Sabres who did it and it hasn't worked out yet but that's because, as Peeps points out here, it's only one step. I happen to believe the Leafs core is good enough to win but what they haven't gotten right yet is the mix around that core. You have to do both, which is what worked so well for LA, Chicago, Tampa and Pittsburgh. A high end core through the top of the draft, but also a good supporting cast too. for me it comes down to less of a this pathway or that pathway and more a consideration of where is your club, what are the current strengths/weaknesses of your club, and what are the up coming drafts like. I think you need to weight all of those when deciding whether or not this course make sense because even though a team may not be a cup contender or may not have a top 2 pick doesn't mean they have to rebuild. I am pro Flames rebuild because I think they have a strong prospect pool with depth, some good supporting characters in the right age range on their big league team but they lack the high end talent to be able to compete for cups, particularly down the middle. When you look at the strength of the next few drafts and the amount of high end talent available, combine it with what is already a solid base, I think you have the makings of a really exciting product in 3-4 years. That wouldn't' have been my answer in 2019 or 2020. Lots should factor into the analysis IMO and it shouldn't be as simple as either get a top 2 pick or you'll never win.
  12. 3 points
    Thanks kehatch for a NEW thread.lol I voted rebuild if we have another year like last year. But honestly, I think we have zoned in on some of the things that have really been hurting us. Not much change to the core, but I'm not positive the core has been the problem. A complete lack of 60 minutes of compete, no grit, no pushback, a team that always falls into a hole without the resilience to get out of it. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging they say. The team's composition never did that. "Have Ritchie beat someone up"...never mattered. I like the adds, as residual as they seem. It will be the bottom 6 that keeps the entire roster up. So this is a retool to me. We've retooled our bottom 6, which was god awful. Most think it doesn't need move the needle, but I see it differently. Our bottom 6 is no longer going to get completely outworked so that is going to be a big boost. How the roster comes together is pretty exciting to me. Lots of parts and methods it seems. Pitlick, for me, is a nice add. He will chip in with secondary scoring. His career high is 15 goals playing with junk and doing it all by himself. Coleman always plays with a sense of urgency so that's a nice add for what has been a pretty vanilla team. When Sutter calls someone out in the media, Lewis and Richardson can talk to the player. "Yes. This is what he does. Don't get mad at him, get mad at yourself. He's not lying". Role players that know their role very well. Size on D. No more stick checking. Punish. Nothing slows a forward down more than being aware that there's a heavy hitter on the ice. As much as I don't see Gudbranson as a good add, I also have to wonder if Sutter has always been laughing at his usage. He wanted him here, so he likely sees something that I don't. Finally, this team filled me full of spite last year with their pathetic levels of, "try". Whining about it got tiring to the point that my give-a-crap-level was the same as theirs. But that's exhausting too. So I've stopped whining and it's a new season to watch and hope that fixing the bottom 6, piling in Dmen and G prospects is a good start. Now our top 6 has a platform to stand on. If they falter, then it's time to address that. I hope we've fixed a lot of the real problems now. Not long term solutions, but perhaps a better look at being a true 4 line team, built from the net out. Without skipping over the 3rd and 4th lines like we could just throw anyone there.
  13. 3 points
    Sutter mentioned a few times last year that the team just doesn't have the mental toughness needed to be successful. That's why they brought in 4 forwards that bring exactly that. I get that people wanna see goal scorers and points signings, but I'm happy they did it this way. The team's weak mentality had to change. Now they've added guys to help that. Lewis and Richardson aren't here for 20 goals apiece from 7 mins/gm. They know how to play their roles. We've been lacking that.
  14. 3 points
    It takes young lesser developed players time to grow into solid minds and bodies. Some guys develop faster. That's ok. Sometimes young guys find a way to get the job done. Having an Eichel would be a plus no doubt. The point I like the best is that Sutter will try to tighten up the neutral zone. That will improve any team defence. Like conundrumed said in not so many words, defence is the whole team. I think small market teams need to build differently than large market ones. A large physical gritty defensive team can still win a cup in today's game; there are already too many finesse teams in an already too large league (IMHO). Montreal lost the cup last season because of a handful of poor defensive plays (IMHO). (Whatever happened to taking 'good penalties'?... but that is a side discussion). I want to see the tiny and floating players traded for bigger hungrier ones. Sutter knows what needs to be done to win; Treliving, I'm not so sure. Another thing I like about conundrumed is his optimism. You don't get far when negativity sets in; you don't win shifts... you don't win games. We have all been there; we all know that. It's good to hear from you all again. I miss Flyersfan too.
  15. 3 points
    I just thought the post was funny but mostly because I'm not a fan of Will Nault so I thought it was a funny response. He's honestly made the fan shows almost unlistenable for me because he's just trying to be the contrarians in the discussion bur rarely does he actually have much to back up his opinion. I wasn't sure where Nault stood on Dube so I didn't in anyway way try to bring Kehatch into it. I respect his opinion too.
  16. 2 points
    Did you watch his presser? Very forthcoming. "I put on the equipment and went out there, so I'm not making excuses". Was it his call or the team's? Fighting for a playoff spot so he kept trying. His biggest weapon is his shot, so it's sad that's what was affected the most. I'm not a fan of trading him. Injuries have hampered him. And it's not like he doesn't know that it's been disappointing. Hip, shoulder, wrist. Hopefully he's now fully healthy and learned from those injuries. We talk about players wanting to be here. He's one that does. Hopefully him and Johnny get back to ham and cheese. Mony's injuries affect Johnny too. More Moneyhands, goodbye injuries.
  17. 2 points
    I just enjoy teasing in good fun. JJ's been waxing me lately in this forum's hockey pool, so I have to get my shots in out of spite.lol But yeah, if someone responds to me angrily when I tease, I'll put a like on their post that I'm not being nasty, just keeping it fun. But at the end of the day, when we know we don't actually NEED Ritchie on the roster, we're a better team. I like that we're fixing our bottom 6 first. Now our whole roster are NHL players, outside of Gudbranson, but I'll have to trust Sutter on that one. Maybe he can teach him how to play D effectively. Richardson, Lewis and Pitlick. I may be on an island thinking how important a 6-8min/gm 4th line is, but I do. Was never a Ryan fan, at any price. I like it now. Pitlick's going to love playing with Backlund. Our 3rd and 4th lines are fixed now imho. That helps the top 6 a lot. Now Sutter has really solid matchup options. He won't need to lean on any 1 line, he can roll out Backlund's line against 1st lines if he wants to get good matchups for our top 6. I like what I see. What I really can't wait for is a healthy Monahan to remind us that he's a really good player. Even with the bad hip, he didn't lose many PP draws. His injuries haven't been recurring same injury. He's a slot guy with a great shot, so he's been targeted. But we're deeper now. He'll have a big yr. We didn't have big changes to the core so everyone's angry. But we had really good changes to the support cast. Personally, that's what I wanted. Stars can't be stars without a solid support cast. No star in this league does it alone. Except Kucherov and Panarin.lol
  18. 2 points
    if Peeps, JJ, TMac, and I are popular… ok, There might be a few more… maybe we are the cool kids in here? I just want a competitive team. It’s hard watching a team play for a few minutes then suddenly look like they’ve forgotten how to play, or look like they don’t know how and then suddenly when behind the eight ball they now know they need to play. Games are not fun to watch when there isn’t an honest effort, or big gaffes occur too often. I can watch a bad team play if they actually try. I’m a Flames fan, that’s true to all of us. After the Cup win, and the slow death of that team and moving on, seeing them at least try was good enough for me. Did I want them to win? Yes, but I was proud that they never said die… I know I said that game 7 of Tampa was my favourite game, not for the first 40, but how they fought and tried for that last 20, I was nearly in tears with how they attacked. Wished they did that earlier, but if not for the Khabiboulin it might have been a different outcome.
  19. 2 points
    Matches what I think of Dube. Last guy I'd wanna trade. He'll be wearing an "A" in this league, at minimum. Against what many see, I think Sutter loves Dube and Valimaki. He's very good with young players, people just don't like his tactics. Dube is an excellent player, ready to breakout imho.
  20. 2 points
    Gotta admit that I am surprised we are heading into the year without a few more significant changes. I understand when Treliving says he makes deals when they are available, but I thought he would really go for it this year. Guess he figures his job is secure. Btw, I just got back from doing research in Antarctica since Jan 1, 2020 and no internet. What's new? LOL
  21. 2 points
    This is the anti-pissing and moaning thread. When you get beside yourself, as a fan, about what the Flames are doing or not doing, take solace in the fact that they know more than you do. I'm excited to see what Vladar and Werner have to offer. Perfect age to acquire big goalies. I love the Zadorov add. Reggie mach 2. Stats don't take into account fear factor. He can take all the penalties he wants. Opposing fwds will always know the threat is real. Dude loves to hit, he's got a great attitude and personality. What I love most about Russians is that their interviews aren't choreographed, they're honest. Coleman, Pitlick, Lewis. Welcome and thanks in advance for joining us. I'm thankful. This is starting to look like a blue-collar team. Detroit being my other team, their cups weren't fancy superstars. They were blue-collar hard work. They call Datsyuk "The Magic Man", but the truth is he put the workboots on and wasn't afraid to get a little Satoshi Nakamoto on his shoes. That's what we're building here, finally. Work ethic. So before anyone wants to savage Lewis and Pitlick and all of that, "doesn't move the needle" crap, remember this. Detroit wins zero cups without Maltby-Draper-McCarty. We don't reach the finals without guys like Yelle and Nieminen and Nilson. Our D was laughable. We're on a very good path of improvement right now. Trading out the core was never going to fix anything. Fix the real problems, particularly a pathetic bottom 6 and floundering D. Good start. BT talked about changing the core. He might as well have just come out and said, "we're not protecting Gio". That was the reality. Get over it. So while many may not see the improvement, I guarantee, you're about to. In '04, adding Nieminen and Nilson seemed like "whatever" moves. So welcome everyone. Welcome to having a coach that is one of the best hockey minds in the business. Enjoy the ride. This season will be a blast. The funnest part is that all of the talking heads don't see it. So lets maybe not put much weight in what they think. They'll be wrong, as usual. We are all (unfinished) business.
  22. 2 points
    Or maybe because the coaching couldn't decide how they needed to coach this roster? Sutter is literally laughing, I'm sure. Don't worry peeps, we'll be fine. Until we need a new coach at least. It's kinda funny to watch. Seems like every move, even shoring up G prospects, are Sutter's. If he can get owns away from guiding BT, great. Show a little faith. We desperately needed qualified role players before anything.
  23. 2 points
    The second game was far better the first. Players that would be interesting to watch. 1) Zary is sound liked what I saw. Seems to be around the puck and very good hockey IQ. Reminds me of a better skating Monahan 2) Jereme Poirier, Love his puck pose, skill set and skating. This kid reminds of Chabot or Karleson. If he gets more polished this could be a gem 3) Jacob Pelletier Good motor good skills, not afraid of hard work or the dirty areas. Reminds me of Frohlick 4) Walker Duehr. Good skater, seems good defensively, not afraid of the dirty areas, good power forward Simialr style to a Greeenway Josh Anderson type just un polished. 5) Wolf Fast agile, competive, although small battles well positionally sound reminds me or Quick. 6) Pospisil another large guy good skater above average skills power forward type, physical reminds me of a Sam Bennet, Micheal Ferland type 7) Nikolaev skilled great vision agile, good skater... limited viewing to soon to tell 8 ) Ryan Francis great shooter, high skill set he is small but seems to find the open areas... Reminds me of Yakamoto, 9) Yan Kuznetsov good first passer, uses his size well, good reach, not physical. No comps 10) Solovyou. Good size good use of players around him, he didnt make to many large gaffs. To early to tell but gelled well with the other Russian players on a couple of shifts. 11) Zavgorodny Appears skilled in spurts than disappears for me is still really green needs to put more compete into his game. The rest for me never really moved the needle much, but its really only been a couple games. This group played well against what was a older more experianced Oilers prospect field. The one positive that we can say about Tre is the prospects look far better than years previous. Stockton may should be fun to watch this year. It would be good to allow them to stay togehter and create a winning culture for thos who move up. I think offensively we could be above average and Wolf IMHO will steal some games, It will boil down to D. They could have a great year in Stockton. Looking forward to see how the progress
  24. 2 points
    He reminds me of a Frolich style of a guy. Good motor average skills and could be a good energy guy for a bottom 6 position.
  25. 2 points
    The more I watch him the more committed I become to the fact that I don't think he'll ever be a top 6 player but I think he's going to play 8 plus years in the league.
  26. 2 points
    I think I have made my view clear with all the Eichel talk. M. Tkachuk is up for contract renewal and based off these comments, he will be looking for a raise. A combination of the brothers in the 8-10 mil range without a higher salary cap would handicap the Flames signing other players. For me, less than a tenth of the team should not make almost a quarter of the Salary cap. If Ottawa or St.Louis want to pull a Toronto or Edmonton, go ahead but I don’t want that in Calgary.
  27. 2 points
    Tarasenko ($2.5 retained) and Thomas for Tkachuk. I'm all in.. Thomas is a way better all-around player than Tkachuk. Hard RHC. Do it. We have LW. Thomas alone is better. Tarasenko must feel outright insulted. I'd like a star RW with a giant chip on his shoulder. One less one dimensional mouthpiece LW. For a high end RW and a budding, solid RHC. That's better than Eichel imho. If Army has to include Thomas to move Tara, I'll be pissed if it's for less than Tkalughead.
  28. 2 points
    Came acrross this: As many think a small major have a negative over tone to the Flames, I will just leave this here: In a article Dom Luszczyszyn of The Athletic wrote less than a month ago, he got responses from over 17,000 fans who ranked NHL front offices from best to worst. (from ‘Dom Luszczyszyn: 2021 NHL front office rankings: Fans weigh in on every team’ , The Athletic — 08/25/21). The Flames placed 24th out of 32 teams, and Luszczyszyn summed the reasoning up perfectly. “The Flames are at the same crossroads that all average teams are at when they realize they’re stuck in the mushy middle: go all-in or fold” Luszczyszyn wrote. “Pick a lane and either try to contend or try to rebuild. Doing neither just delays the inevitable and wastes time for everyone and that lack of vision is obviously going to be frustrating to a hungry fan base. Only 4 percent were more confident in this team now than they were last year, the lowest of any team in the league. Do something!”
  29. 2 points
    Ahhh, so those who disagree or vary in opinion should have no say
  30. 2 points
    What I think needs to happen is a new thread like, "The Hive of Doom", that you folks could hang out in. There are enough of you. Come tell us that you told us so occasionally. We'd love that.
  31. 2 points
    Ah but putting the blame on Tre is where imho I think you and JJ are wrong. The blame lies higher up!!
  32. 2 points
    I agree with lots of this, in particular that the club is in better shape now and moving forward than many others think. However, to build on that I think it depends on what the end goal of this is. If the end game is to have a team that is competitive, able to make the playoffs more often than not, and maybe get lucky and go on a run than I agree things are on the right path. However, if the end goal is to win a cup than I am very much in the camp that I don't see that happening with the path they are on because I don't see where the impact talent is going to come from. As much as we can say ok well go find a Point or a Bergeron (and without question they should be doing that anyway and I believe they are) I would suggest personally it is very unlikely to happen. But yes if it's being framed that the Flames are doomed so they might as well tank then I hear you and agree with that. I've said in other threads I think this team is built to be competitive for several more years but there is a big leap between being competitive and winning a cup. I don't see the path they are on closing that gap personally, but happy to be wrong there.
  33. 2 points
    That's precisely what I am doing. Flipping the script. The other side is presenting, "we have to tank for a high pick". I'm saying no we don't. Particularly with a ridiculous lottery system that doesn't guarantee a top 3 pick. Datsyuk was a 6th rder. Lidstrom a 3rd. Benn, Kucherov, Point et.al., we can call them outliers, but there are plenty of outliers if that's what we're calling it. Now we can pretend scouting is world's better now, unfortunately that's not the case. I know 2 scouts, 1 for the Wings, 1 for the Pens. Here's why there's always a consensus. It's an old boys club. They all gather together in 1 section of the arena to watch the same player(s), spill drinks and laugh it up like it's a family reunion. I've had this conversation with both. Their primary interest seems to be respect amongst their peers. Just like high school. So finding the hidden future NHLers is as easy as telling your scouts to sit elsewhere and not to follow the consensus. 1 scout I know actually took my advice and is stalwart. They all piggy-back off of each other. If I'm a GM, that's not what I'm paying for. This is how the Moritz Seider's go 6thoa when consensus is 6th best International player. Kid will be a monster NHLer. Building a solid foundation and adding to it smartly, I get that part. What I'm saying is you don't have to sell off every asset for picks and tank to accomplish that. Even Aho was a 2nd rder. It happens. A lot. Pelletier has the toolbox to be a Voracek-type, Zary a Couture. Our pipeline is looking the best it has in years. D is on the weak side, but we just graduated Andersson, Valimaki, potentially Mackey. But most are short on patience and out of time due to our old pipeline of Poirier's, Bouma's etc. My mission is to pull everyone back from the ledge. We aren't in as bad of shape as is being spewed all over. Both Pell and Zary are more than capable of transitioning to the next level. And yes, we do have a good GM. Too many want him fired. Impassioned, but misguided. We're only getting better. Now I just wait to prove my point. Talking heads are like scouts, they thrive on consensus as a group. One piles on, the rest follow suit. Let's all think for ourselves. We aren't as bad as a lot of people seem to be cheering for. Typical.
  34. 2 points
    I think as fans, we like to put simple explanations forward to keep things easy. "You need to have a first overall to win the cup" or "You need X number of ELCs" or "You need X caliber player as X,Y, and Z positions". I have done it. You have done it. Its how we set up context for an argument or discussion. But the reality is, you need the best players and the best team to win and there isn't a specific recipe to achieving that. That said, we all know that the best place to get the best players is the draft. The best way to get the best players in the draft is to draft higher and more often. And the best way to get the highest and most picks is to rebuild. I agree with you that the top SC teams had a lot of great players to complement the other great players they got in top spots of the drafts. But those teams still had the great players they got in the top spots of the draft. The issue with the Flames is we don't have the strong base the consistently great teams do. We don't have the top players at any position, and the two we have that can occasionally be in the conversation are at the least important position (LW). Could we find those players outside of a top 3 draft pick? Possibly. Its why people like me are advocating for Eichel. But its a lot harder. Some fans look at it like this. Are we good enough to be legitimate SC contenders with the base we have? No, then lets rebuild. Its that simple, and it leads to a lot of the arguments describe at the paragraph "The only way too ..." or "If we don't then terrible thing X,Y will occur". The owners don't look at it like that though. Playoffs and big name players is where you make your money. When you don't have those two things, then you rebuild to get those two things, but certainly not before. For coaches and GMs, if you can make the playoffs you might be the next 04 Flames, 06 Oilers, 20 Canadians, or even better 19 Blues. The GM and coaches aren't going to have a job through a rebuild.
  35. 2 points
    Eichel is better. A rough 'tier' of Cs looks something like: McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Crosby, Draisaitl Bergeron, Eichel, Shcheifele, Barkov, Aho Point, Tavares, Malkin, O'Reilly, Pettersson, Kopitar, Backstrom, a few others Monahan along with a rather large list. I would put Lindholm here as well if he plays C. You can shuffle a few guys around the list I guess, but Eichel is levels above Monahan. Injury is a concern for Eichel for sure, but it is for Monahan as well. Monahan put up fewer points then Backlund last year, and that was his second season in decline. I certainly understand the concern about giving up futures, especially from a team that may need to rebuild or retool soon, but I look at it this way. In 2013 Feaster offered three first round picks, one the 6 OA, for MacKinnon. It took MacKinnon 5 years to really find his groove (bringing him roughly to the age Eichel is now). That trade would have amounted to Monahan, Klimchuk, and Poirier for MacKinnon. This is an opportunity to do the same to get an elite C, but this time one that is just entering his prime. Look at it another way. The Flames spend years in a rebuild and came out with Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Hanafin, and a few D with potential. Gaudreau is the oldest guy on that last and he just turned 28. The Flames can spend 5 years rebuilding again hoping they get luckier then last time (and hope they get an Eichel caliber C). Or potentially they could add one of the elite Cs, possibly without even losing any of the core pieces listed above. A final way to look at it. The Flames likely will not rebuild. The ownership drug their feet as long as possible last time with a core much older and much less competitive then the one we have. We have already heard they are trying to extend Gaudreau, and we saw this summer that they didn't trade anyone. This time they have a new arena on the way. Even if a rebuild was the right and best chance, if the Flames won't do it then it doesn't matter. In which case fixing your biggest hole makes sense. I know the price for Eichel is 4 1st round picks or equivalent. But nobody is paying that which is why we are talkin about this in September. Whatever it comes too, the Flames should be making a serious offer for him. You have a bunch of high caliber D ready to break out, a couple of strong goalie options, and some value wingers you can use to further tweak the team if necessary. The Flames could use what they have and retool over the next 2 seasons and come out a contender. Are there risks? Sure. But a rebuild is at least as big of risk, and staying the course is a guarantee not to contend.
  36. 2 points
    Lol yes but the point is it’s a contract space one way or the other, and if he’s going to the AHL why bother? We have enough of those anyway, just makes no sense it’s a bad sign no matter how you spin it…waste of money/cap space/contract space…he’s old and not NHL level anymore, there are/were better options.
  37. 2 points
    There are/were better options id the point…plus he’s 2 years removed from scoring 15 goals, back then he was 34 now he’s 36, that’s a lot of miles on the back end of a hockey player career, elite player can usually get more miles cause they were sooo much better that even when they degrade some they are still good…he’s no where elite average player at the best of his career, now he’s a fringe NHL player at best and we already have way too many of those now, the smart move would have been to NOT sign him and try Raz for a while on the 4th… this is the exact thing many fans have been complaining about for years, keeping your prospects down by brining in old player who lets be honest in Every case has NOT worked out Brewer, Neil, Jager…list goes on, one could argue Lucic too being as it was just a change of scenery for both Neil and Lucic…the only reason Lucic is still in the line up is he can’t be buried in the AHL, and he’s contract is next to buyout proof…which in my mind we went from bad with Neil, to worse with Lucic but that’s a whole other thing… if you look around the NHL how many 36 year olds are still playing? A few yes but In the vast majority of cases they were elite…example is Bergeron in Bos…he’s probably gonna retire next season, ans why? Cause he’s gone from an elite player to a good player, who’s also starting to decline from that level…now look at Richardson, he’s been a career 4th liner when he was younger, he’s 36, to be quite honest he aught to have retired 2 years ago…only here in Cgy do we see value in what a player used to be, not what they are now…in this case he’s a old guy trying to stay Ins young-mans game…so yes he is very much a “plug” now..not that that’s what I said, but if you like we can call him that, but realistically he’s just too old for hockey anymore and should never have been signed
  38. 2 points
    No battle for the back up. Vlader is your man this year. Mackey still to be signed and would not suprise me if they go back to Stone as the veteren dman. Up front they always seem to like to sign a few from camp tryouts. Treliving has been very quiet which probably means he is working on something!! Still not convinced he is done tinkering going into the season. 4 weeks to go and optimism is currently ruling pessimism!
  39. 2 points
    Agreed on the Monahan front TBC. I guess I valued Dvorak higher than most. And perhaps the potential in this upcoming draft makes that first rounder more valuable than most years. He’s just got a great contract price and term, he’s positive in the face-off dot, he can score and setup scoring, he’s defensively sound… to me he’s one of the rare 200 foot players that every team talks about but rarely ever finds. He’s good in so many areas of the ice. Plus, if Chucky is sticking around, I thought it would’ve been good to have his former linemate on the team (as a potential future linemate as well since the chemistry is already there). I may be in the minority, but I see Dvorak > JK. Though, Dvorak alone won’t replace both JK and Danault. MTL is in the toughest division as well - but I think they’re strong on the wings and in net. We’ll see how the D shakes out for them without Weber, though they did pickup Savard. They are a conundrum for this upcoming season to me. edit: I also hate to beat a dead horse (well, on second thought maybe not lol) but if the flames were targeting Eichel, Brouwer’s buyout is off the books after this season, and Lucic’s salary is off the books after next season. So, on a positive note, there will be some misallocated cap space coming back to the flames following an Eichel acquisition. On the flip side, we have to be careful not to overpay for the services Gaudreau or Chucky or Mony with that cap space, if that’s the plan. The Patrick idea is an interesting one for sure. I was just thinking that a Dvorak acquisition would be an excellent succession plan for Backlund, and we could move on from him.
  40. 2 points
    I'm not really sure why Reider makes any sense. JG-Mony-Coleman Tkachuk-Lindholm-Dube Mangia-Backlund-Pitlck Lucic-Ruzicka-Lewis Froese-Phillips This is where I see Dvorak would really change things. JG-Mony-Lindholm Tkachuk-Dvorak-Coleman/Dube Mangia-Backlund-Dube/Coleman Lucic-Lewis/Ruzicka-Pitlick Either way, don't see Reider mattering.
  41. 2 points
    I’m with you on this thought process, which is why I have wanted another Center like Dvorak. @cross16 mentions trading Phillips, and I think he could be a piece moving in that trade, similar to a garland replacement. It would also give up that top line with JG-Mony-Lindy, like you said and allow you to put Chucky-Dvorak with either Coleman or Mang. Giving you a pretty stacked third line of Coleman/Mang - Backs - Dube
  42. 2 points
    we have players here with the possibility of being stars.. First.. to be a star.. you\ve got to be in a position to win and showcase your skills for all to see.. We finally have a coach worthy of building a team rather than a roster of hockey players.. That alone will show us where we are and what we need going forward
  43. 2 points
    So let's broach that subject. Every owner wants to win now. They can't. Why are we going to the nth degree with this? There are 6 ways to skin a cat (so they tell me). The 1st way is the best. But 2-6 have been effective too. The Avs have MacKinnon and Rantanan, stellar dmen. See Tampa. See Florida. We aren't going to beat these teams adding a 1C. They have better ones. The only way we're winning now is making teams play our way, not theirs. Let's face it, we're in Sutter's hands. Our offseason moves have clearly been his. I think we're done for now. He wants to see what he has imho. Then I expect in-season moves. I'm highly doubting these are BT's moves, I'd say Sutter is training him to understand what a complete NHL roster looks like. I think we'll be good.
  44. 2 points
    So, does that mean McDavid, Draisatl, Barkov, Huberdeau, Marner, Matthews are on the same level as Gaudreau and Tkachuk? If we could trade Gaudreau and Tkachuk for any of those duos we'd do it in a heartbeat, but should we expect different results? I would say no, based on those players also having failures getting their own teams over the hump. Does it mean they can't either? No. I find sports funny, a guy like Ryan O'Reilly will now go down as a winner, to this point he's made it out of the first round once in his 12 year career, but because he went all the way that year he doesn't need another series win to lose that label. Joe Thornton has won a round most of the times he made the playoffs but likely won't be remembered for anything outside his regular season accomplishments.
  45. 2 points
    Ok see Ott makes sense they have a deep group of prospects and cap space unlike Cgy…they can afford the risk and makes sense to bring in timing is really good for Ott. Calgary needs to look at a full tear down very soon, this is what Cgy has never done properly and why we are always pretenders not contenders, where as Ott is gonna be a force in a few years with or without Eichel
  46. 2 points
    Was it MTL that gave Aho an offer? Too funny. Makes me love the Canes. Too much fun.
  47. 2 points
    Well if they could land Dvorak at a reasonable price I do like the options that bring so for the 2nd and 3rd lines: Tachuck/Dvorak/ Dube or Coleman Manji/Backlund/Dube or Coleman all things being equal, if all the players play to their abilities those are some really good 2nd and 3rd line combos behind Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm it could open up some room for the top line as any of the other two lines could be dangerous…which is really the big issue the past few seasons, shut done the first line and Cgy scoring is done…those lines all 3 could be very dangerous at any given time and would be hard to shut down all 3 I would think?
  48. 2 points
  49. 2 points
    I think we just need to get over Fox. If we propose a system that a drafted player must sign with that team, if players can't walk away from the team that drafted them, then teams shouldn't be allowed to walk away from players they drafted that they don't want to sign. Mitch Mattson is a draft pick I imagine the Flames have no interest in signing at this point, but if the Flames choose to pass does that mean no team can sign him for a year? Do they need toput in a rule that junior players who choose not to sign (rare but still exist ex. Gawdin) have to wait until a year after they age out of junior as well? Or are we changing the whole thing because of one player. A side note if Fox did sign, how much would it cost to keep him after next season? Highly unlikely in a world where Nurse makes 9.25 that Fox in the same province would take single digits.
  50. 1 point
    I don't get what everone is bent out of shape for. So family is involved with the negoations, they have been trough it, no big deal. Speculation has alway been Brady was the next captain, not sure the issue there. So the old man isn't a Sutter fan, well at least Sutter has 2 more cup rings than Dad. Now with the contract negoations for Matty he is suppose to get a raise from 7- 9 Million, into perspective a 22% increase, look at it as $11.00 hr to $14.25 pay increase same percentage. If your bosses offered you a 22% increase in wage would yuo turn it down? The amount of zeros on the back end may look different but pretty sure nobody says " hey in the teams best interest pay me less". Guys occassionally take a discount to win a cup, we are not one of those teams. For me I wnat this club to win a cup, period. I grow tired of the oh its in Alberta, Taxes, Weather, Canadain city BS. Strange years ago you couldnt get guys to play for USA based teams, now they all want to play there, change the perception change the direction. The sounds of things Tre couldn't find a dance partner for the players we have, which screams trouble as the value is most obcviously not there. So we have 2 players who are key to the team iup for renewal, both are going to push to that 8 Plus million mark. Both slided last year but IMHO Matthew slide more than JG. Loved the MT from a couple years ago, last year he was like a petculant child. Logistically I feel JG is worth what we pay him now, Matthew has shown he is not. I get every team wants what Matty has but not just when Matty wants to bring it. We know ownership doesn't want to rebuild or tank, however it may happen by default. If both players require 23% of your cap space and have yet to move you in a direction of obtaining a cup is it worth the investment? The other issue is we couldn't trade either because values were to low and teams are cap strapped this club is not in a very good position moving forward. As I have stated before Tre has done some good things, but the key decisions have placed this club in a very poor positon moving forward.
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