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bosn111 last won the day on September 25

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About bosn111

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  1. I have said this in a number of threads and I will say it again here. Why the insistence on trading Hanifin? Valimaki has all of 26 games of sheltered NHL experience. He has all of 6 points in the NHL and is coming off a serious injury. Should he be in the NHL? The answer is most likely yes. Has he proven that he is better than Hanifin? Not even close. Kylington is not better than Hanifin and has not earned enough trust from coaches to be a full time player let alone the GM who got 2 D men at the TDL to play instead of him. Hanifin signed a very team friendly contract for solid term and can handle top 4 just fine. If Valimaki proves to be better next season, Hanifin will still be easy to move. Even then, if Hanifin improves, Valimaki shows solid then maybe Giordano is odd man out. There is no reason to move Hanifin, even for a RW unless there is a guarantee you can replace him internally. At this time there is a hope, but no guarantee. Don’t forget, Hanifin is only 23 and his prime years are still ahead. There are other players who can be moved that are more easily covered, even in UFA than a proven top 4 D in order to save cap. Ryan or Bennett (3/4 C at 3.1 and 2.5 million respectively) are easier replaced. I don’t believe moving Bennett is correct because finally being in a position he is comfortable with, I believe he will show improvement this year, but 3/4 C is easier to replace than top 4 D. Moving Hanifin now would be bad asset management. Wait until Valimaki proves himself, then consider whether you trade Hanifin or Giordano, not before.
  2. I would say that Hall is / was only an option if Gaudreau was being traded. To me this says more about the potential trade market for Johnny. It is also possible that Treliving told Hall that they had interest but were in wait and see mode. Hall wanted to sign quickly. We look at a few teams now well over the cap who need to move salary just to be compliant. My guess is Treliving wants to be able to trade if he wants, but not forced to take less back to simply fit under cap. While in order to get a higher end player with higher salary would require moving salary, it’s not an absolute need. Leaves the Flames in a stronger position for negotiation. Teams who miss out on Hall and other big names, may up their offers for Gaudreau. Treliving May be able to take advantage of teams like Toronto and Vegas. Flames could move 3-4 higher / mid players and remain at least competitive or even improve. That number shrinks once Pietrangelo officially signs because now you can’t really trade Giordano. Hanifin could be moved but until Valimaki proves he can handle top 4, I don’t really accept the need or drive to do so. Ryan is a luxury and is moveable. He won’t bring back a top player, but for cap purposes teams like Buffalo or Ottawa could bite. Gaudreau and Monahan are the other 2 that are potentially moveable without a huge drop off. I think the ability to try Lindholm or Bennett as top C means moving Mony isn’t necessarily a huge loss for the right pieces. Tkachuk could play top LW and Mangiapane could be second LW so moving Gaudreau isn’t necessarily terrible for the right return. The Flames would likely stay competitive at least, maybe a slight drop. Treliving definitely has work to do, but we will wait and see what happens.
  3. bosn111

    Team identity

    I guess I am not trying to blame anyone in particular, moreover I am looking at and assessing the situation at hand, looking at the past decade ish and trying to see why the success isn’t there. There are fans who blame coaches, others blame GMs while others still blame individual players. People post on players they would like to see on the team, but often they are selected for personal reasons and don’t always account for team styles. I guess I don’t see it as a cart before the horse situation because I believe that a GM needs to look at the team and decide what to do. Do you look at the players you have and build a team, including coaches, around them? Do you look at a coach and get players based on their preferred style? Or do you decide on a specific style and choose players and coaches that work within the GMs plan? I don’t believe you can have a successful hybrid style team. It is difficult for a coach as they will play the guys who fit their own personal style more and punish those who don’t play to the system. Also chemistry doesn’t flow between players in a hybrid system. If we look at any of the successful teams over the past decade or more, especially those with consistent success, they have had that identity. Those without an identity or a hybrid seem to be perennial playoff bottom contenders or always just missing out. When Treliving came in, he stated that he wanted a puck possession team. Guys like Backlund, Lindholm, Frolik and Ryan play that style and work well. Giordano in previous years would fit that dynamic as well. The issue is that these are not all your top guys. Players like Gaudreau and Monahan are better when they have room to work. I include players like Nylander, Boeser, Stamkos in this category. Guys like Bennett, Tkachuk, Mangiapane, Hathaway, Ferland, even Lucic are more a dog on a bone type players. I would say pressure and retrieve the puck to create opponent mistakes allowing for offence opportunities. I would include guys like Hall, Mackinnon somewhat, Gallagher and others in this style. The point of it all is that various GMs tried to put their stamp on the team with different ideas and a combination of contracts and individual success led to the team keeping players from the previous regime that didn’t necessarily fit with the new identity. Some players adapted while many didn’t. Neal was never going to fit the team identity of a possession team. He may have fit with the Feaster concept of high skill with guys like Gaudreau and Brodie, but that wasn’t what Treliving was talking about or the coaches he hired. I would argue that some of the prospects that were considered flops because they didn’t make the team are not necessarily flops rather they were not good enough in the chosen style that arose with the transition of GM decisions on team identity. I think the team should choose the primary identity and work towards it. If they want a fast transition team, then guys like Monahan, Giordano, Lucic, Tanev, Tkachuk and such don’t really fit. Hanifin, Kylington, Gaudreau would be great in this identity. High skill with out scoring the opponents in high scoring games Gaudreau, Monahan, Kylington, Hanifin all fit well. Defence first would see Giordano, Backlund, Lindholm, Tanev and Ryan thriving. High pressure is good for Bennett, Mangiapane, Lucic, Dube, Lindholm, Andersson. Choose the identity you really want and build around that. Outliers are fine for a few players, but most of the team should play a similar style / system. At least that is how I a see it.
  4. With UFA signings, trade talk and everything else going on, I thought I would start a new thread to flush out some information that could help us as fans consider what we see with the team. I think the biggest problem the Flames have overall is an identity crisis. In truth, they don’t really have one and haven’t since Sutter. Even when Burke was around, the team was muddled and I will explain. Under Sutter, the Flames played with an edge, strong defence with opportunistic offence. The team for the most part was built that way and the team drafted players based on that system. Feaster as GM had a different view, as did coaches afterwards. I would say feaster liked flashy with the likes of Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie etc. High skill that beat teams with talent. His coaches reflected that, but there was still too many Sutter players to really make it successful. This includes prospects who never made the team because the intended identity was changed. Before the team could be fully transitioned, the management changed again with a new philosophy. Possession became the buzz. Players like Backlund really fit this style and was sought after. Adding the likes of Frolik, Lindholm and Ryan fit that criteria, but others don’t. A lot of drafting players in recent years has not followed the intended identity, nor have some signings. Tkachuk is more a Sutter type, so is Bennett (though not exactly). Pelletier is more a Feaster type stylistically. So if we look at the current lineup what do we see? High skill High Skill Possession Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm Tough opportunist Possess opportunist Tkachuk Backlund Mangiapane Tough opportunist Pressure In progress Lucic Bennett Dube ?? Possession?? ?? Ryan ?? All around All around Giordano Andersson Fast transition Stay at home Hanifin Tanev In Progress ?? Valimaki ?? Fast transition Kylington Athletic puck stopper Markstrom Athletic puck stopper Rittich So when we look at the team, we can see that there really is no identity. Dallas was more Sutter style, Colorado is high speed high pressure, Tampa is more skill with some grit mixed in. Treliving hasn’t been successful in creating a possession team because players like Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Hanifin and others simply don’t play that style, nor do many of his prospects. So what style would you like to see the Flames play? What should their identity be? Personally I would prefer a high speed, pressure team. Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube style which is why I wanted Hall on the team. While slower, Tkachuk and Lucic can still play the pressure game. If the team doesn’t win as much, at least that is a fun style to watch. The players at least seem to be engaged and show effort. Thoughts?
  5. Not shooting the idea completely as the thought is there trying to improve but there are a couple of issues I have. 1: It came out publicly after the Flames got bumped from playoffs that Bennett is not comfortable on the wing, especially the right side. He plays a high pressure game that is best suited to C where he was drafted and is most comfortable. 2: Gaudreau is not the only “softer” player on the team and Stamkos isn’t really well know for his grit. Yes more skill than Monahan overall, but not a lot harder to play against. 3: Monahan needs a high end play maker as he is more of a sniper. This is why he and Gaudreau have had the success. Neither Mangiapane or Bennett are really playmakers. Big reason why Bennett never clicked with Gaudreau and Monahan on the top line. 4: This doesn’t solve RW or 3rd RD so I would say that at best this is a situation where the top line will likely find more success but the rest of the team will suffer from it. I would rather see Gaudreau, Monahan and Ryan moved for cap space and more above average players rather than 1 all star. Just my opinion though.
  6. Crazy idea, not sure if I really like it or even really would like it, but it may be worth the risk. Likely losing out on some offensive talent but cutting cap hits and improving depth, especially on D. We know now that Bennett is more comfortable at C and with playing behind Monahan and Backlund he never had a shot at being top 6 C with quality wingers and ice time. So the risk is that Bennett wouldn’t be able to handle the top line pressure. He was drafted as a high end C so maybe he does better under pressure similar to what happens in playoffs. So my suggestion is to target players who may not be high end but are above average or solid depth. Players who may not thrill but are consistent and harder to play against. I suggest trading Monahan, Gaudreau, Ryan and rights to Kylington. Where each goes, I won’t be certain because it depends on offers. Targets are: Buffalo: Montour Jokiharju Cozens (maybe) NJ: Zacha Other players / picks added by other teams to balance the trades. This works for a few reasons, Buffalo gets support for Eichel with either Gaudreau or Monahan. Jersey gets the other which adds higher end, established skill. Flames give up higher end offence but improved depth and clears cap. With the added cap, sign Hall and maybe find another RW. Without another RW, lineup could be: Hall Bennett Mangiapane (High speed, pressure, intense with skill) Tkachuk Backlund Lindholm (Defensively responsible with secondary offence) Lucic Zacha Dube ??? (Possibly shelter Rookies) Giordano Montour Hanifin Andersson Valimaki Tanev Markstrom Rittich Top line output depends on if Bennett and Mangiapane can step up. Other than that, the lineup is deeper and more balanced, bigger and more difficult to play against. It is a risk, but who knows what could happen. At least the team would likely compete for a playoff spot. Can’t really see where team can do better without moving salary now with Markstrom, Tanev and Domingue, so why not risk it and go for something different. Just a random thought.
  7. I am good with both players. We basically took away the Canucks puck stopping today. Hughes is skilled but more offensive and Demko is unproven overall. My big issue is not the players and other than being slightly overpaid, not too disappointed in the contracts. The issue for me is that there is now limited cap space for Mangiapane, Kylington, 3 forwards and a D to fill out the roster. Basically 6.41 million. So either the Flames are looking to play Hard ball with Mangiapane or trades will need to be 1 higher salary for multiple lower salary pieces. I am assuming that Pietrangelo is out and was unlikely to sign, also sounds like Hall is out for now. I would still like to see a trade for someone like Montour who will likely sign around 5 mil. Giordano Andersson Hanifin Tanev Valimaki / Kylington Montour Very balanced D can roll all 3 pairs without a lot of worry. Obviously would need salary out to make it work to still bring in forwards. Still need to see what else happens.
  8. One of the draft round up articles had them both listed as committed to U of Minnesota for the 21-22 season. Unless that was a mistake. I was going by the article which has changed from what it was.
  9. With so much discussion I’m not sure it has Bennett discussed yet but Boltmann and Chechlev (sp) will be team mates at Minnesota next year.
  10. There are more than a few posters who have said just trade Hanifin because Valimaki is already better than him. There have been a few fans post to trade Hanifin bump Gio to second pair and play Valimaki top pair. Just look at the realistic trades thread and the who would you sign thread. The point I was making was we have people who come across as upset whenever anyone claims that Valimaki doesn’t automatically replace our current D. Cross specifically, Cheersman, robrob and myself, along with others, are pointing out reasons to be pessimistic, especially over the past 2 years. Yes there have been good things but also a number of not so good. If we look at similar players on other teams, would you trade for them or be pessimistic? One player example was Juolevi. Should we trade for him? Yes we have high hopes, but if we trade Hanifin expecting Valimaki to be better or at least equal and Valimaki doesn’t measure up or gets hurt again, then what? Don’t answer “we will deal with it if it comes to that” because that is bad business. I am fine if Valimaki proves to be better than Hanifin. I have even said I am fine with moving Giordano. What other players showed at every other level they had all the skills and then flopped in the NHL? I am not trying to discount Valimaki, all I am saying is you don’t move players who are still young themselves and on good contracts who have proven they can handle the role on the hope that an unproven player can simply take his spot. Switching back to draft, you also don’t avoid drafting another high end D talent for the same reasons. Not trying to pick a fight, but as I said in my other post, no one is saying he can’t be a top pair in the future, but the current odds for him being top pair and bust can still be even at this time. If the odds are him being a good NHL D man starting next season then the odds are much better. I am excited to see what he may do. Just not willing to put all my eggs in his basket yet.
  11. Valimaki seems to be polarizing for some fans. I don’t see anyone saying he won’t accomplish anything but do temper their expectations of him based on small NHL sample size and a lost year to injury. On the other side, fans who often claim to temper ideas due to small sample size are declaring him the next coming hero and pencilling him into the top pair D spot. If we are being realistic, Valimaki in reality has proven little at the NHL level. This is simply a true statement. He has played a grand total of 24 regular season games with 1 goal, 2 assists and a -2. He has a total of 2 NHL playoff games with 1 assist and a +1 rating. Total NHL games therefore is 4 points in 26 games (less than 1 point every 6 games) and a -1. This is a very small sample, just over a quarter season, with very little results. As a comparison, Brodie in early seasons played 54 and 47 games with 14 points each season. He put up more than 4 times the points each of those years in just over double the games. The argument that fans are making of not rolling out the parade carpet for Valimaki is comparing his short stint with say Bennett who had 4 points in 11 playoff games after 1 assist in 1 regular season game before being put in situations where he wasn’t comfortable (reported) and not progressing. Or use Jankowski, in 17/18 he had 17 goals and 8 assists for 25 points in 72 games, better than 1 point in 3 games average and now he is likely on his way out. There are more examples of good cameos over small sample sizes that don’t last than there are consistent long term. For this reason alone, it only makes sense for fans to ask Valimaki to earn that top role by working up to it rather than just handing it to him based on small sample size results that are good but not dazzling. I hope he can become that top pair D man, but I need to see a larger sample and more consistent results before I will say he deserves to replace either Hanifin or Giordano in the top 2 pairs. While it’s true that he isn’t inches from being a bust, he also isn’t inches from proving he is better than Giordano or even Hanifin. He is at a place in his career where he can still go either way, especially after an injury kept him out of a full season (I know the business issue around playoffs but he also wasn’t at game speed after a year off injured). So if someone were to state 50/50 odds for him at this time, I would say that’s fair. Even odds based on small sample.
  12. Part of the decision around signing UFAs this season need to account for the expansion draft next season. Some fans will argue that you worry about the draft just before the draft or at the TDL but there are rules that fans seem to forget with the expansion. It is not just about who you protect, but also who you expose to be picked. Protect 7-3-1 or 8-1 but also Expose 2-1-1 with experience on contract or qualified RFA. This exposure rule makes things more difficult. Due to expansion, it would be a mistake to have 2 high end goalies as you will need to expose 1 during the draft. Rittich on current contract doesn’t count as it expires before the expansion. Flames will need to sign another G or re-sign Rittich just to satisfy this requirement. The Flames have the same issue at D. If the Flames sign a big name D like Pietrangelo, if Giordano doesn’t waive his clause, then you are exposing 1 of Andersson or Hanifin. Based on current contracts, forwards are easier. If they extend Mangiapane, Dube and Bennett, they would all qualify. Signing someone like Hall without moving Gaudreau or Monahan would still be possible to protect everyone else but doesn’t leave much room to protect a RW or C. For this reason I see a different way to sign Bobby Ryan. While most could / would offer 1 year at 1 mil, why not offer 3 years at 1.5 million? The understanding would be that he becomes one of the exposed forwards at reasonable cost with experience. If he pots 10+ goals, he earned the 1.5. The difference would be the extra term to attract him. As he is getting paid over 1.8 million for each of the next 4 seasons, I would think the 3 year offer would be more appealing than offer 2 million for 1 season. Just looking at signing players a little differently.
  13. The big thing I took from the long tweet is that Eichel wants to win and the team is looking to make Eichel happy by helping him and the team win in Buffalo sooner rather than later. Buffalo has only 4 F, 5 D and 1 G signed for next season with around 33 mil in cap space. Expect them to make a play for UFA goalie and high end talent. I could see them trying for Pietrangelo to fill out the D plus they could trade for an LHD. I think their 1st this year #8 overall for the right package. If it’s true that the Buffalo GM really likes Monahan, maybe build a multiplayer swap around him. Something like To BUF Monahan Rights to Kylington Rights to Jankowski Pick/prospect To CGY 2020 1st Rights to Montour Jokiharju Rights to Reinhart May need to adjust slightly but there is a difference between signed players and rights. Monahan is the best / most established player with 3 more years on contract. Kylington provides a puck moving, good skating LD. Jankowski gives them a Good D centre with ability to improve with change of scenery. Pick helps offset the Total cost. Reinhart and Montour cost less due to RFA but help Flames at RW and RD. Jokiharju is also RD. Flames get 1st for Monahan to keep Eichel happy. Flames then have Gaudreau Lindholm Reinhart Tkachuk Backlund Mangiapane Giordano Montour Hanifin Andersson Valimaki Jokiharju Moving Gaudreau and signing Hall separately then becomes more open as could look for C or RW to push Lindholm or Reinhart to 2nd line. Just spitballing ideas, but if Buffalo really wants Monahan and to keep Eichel happy, take advantage.
  14. I would say that if they are, it is for more than just pieces to use in another trade. As I stated earlier, there are business reasons that he should be traded. Others mentioned that the expansion draft next year also affects what teams will do. In 2 years, Gaudreau and Giordano are going UFA with Tkachuk going RFA. Not including contracts Flames are working on this year and next, that will be a lot of work to do. I would guarantee they keep Tkachuk at high cap hit and need to replace top pair D which will leave little cap to pay Gaudreau what he is due. While Johnny’s value may be a little down from last season, 2 years on a team friendly contract is still valuable to lots of teams. Regardless of what he did next season, he will only have one season left and a NMC which decreases his trade value and the expansion draft would also factor in. So really if you are looking to build with the future in mind, moving the likes of Gaudreau now makes sense from a business / asset management viewpoint as long as you get a decent if not good return. I see this as a Niewendyk for Iginla type situation. Not taking just draft picks, not taking multiple middling to low NHL players.
  15. Yesterday, TSN put out an article about trade bait and cap issues for individual teams and it got me thinking about an alternate possibility. TSN mentioned that the Blues likely want to re-sign Pietrangelo but need cap space to do so. One trade bait piece they mentioned that could help clear some cap was Parayko. Parayko is a 27 year old 6’6 R shot RD with 18 goals each of the past 2 seasons and been a + player as well. He has 2 years left at 5.5 per as cap hit. As he would be used to free up cap space, the acquisition cost would be lower or at least should be. Blues would need to take back little to no salary going back. We would need to send prospects, waiver eligible or picks. The other option would be a multi-player move, not sure of specific details. I would consider To CGY Parayko Sundqvist To STL Rights to Kylington Zavgorodny + picks / mid prospects Only prospects not to trade for me are Wolf, Pelletier and Valimaki. All others are available at the right price. Considering the cap opening for STL to retain Pietrangelo, what picks / prospects would the Flames need to add?
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