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Hockey_Canada1

2010 Winter Olympics

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Two strong performances in the Cross Country Team Sprint events.

Women finish 7th, Men finish 4th. Neither were expected to do much in these events.

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Guest jsheajr

But does TEam Canada hockey, have one more life line for Gold is what I'm asking?

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But does TEam Canada hockey, have one more life line for Gold is what I'm asking?
Yes.  Nothing is decided for medals yet.  However, from now on, everything is elimination - win or die (except for the semi-finals, where the losers will fight for bronze).

The only thing yesterday's loss did for Canada was make the path to gold longer and harder.

  

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I totally disagree with the idea that Own the Podium is a failure. Is it a resounding success? No, but the concept is sound. The problem is they expected fairly short term results. In the grand scheme of things 4 or 5 years is not quite enough time to expect results when your talking about elite level competition. Especially when Canada doesn't own multiple facilities in many sports, ie sliding events, Ovals etc. I also believe the COC doens't quite get it. Its not about technology, its not about training time, its about psychology alot of the times too. I constantly see Canadians not have their best performances at the Olympic games. Denny Morrison, the Hamlin brothers, even Emile Heymens in the summer games all come to mind. Technology and constant hours of training isn't going to help that, mental preparation is and I dont' think the COC puts near enough emphasis on that field.

Own the podium has backfired somewhat, becuase I believe it put way too much emphasis on winning golds. I say its not a failure, becuase Canada is on pace to win more golds (i believe anyway) that it every has and to lead all countries in Gold medals. If you look back on past games, typically Canada is more about the Bronze and silver than Gold, so you have to say Own the Podium is working to a certain extent.

However, Chairman is on the right track that I think it also has placed too much pressure on athletes and given this "gold or bust" attitude. The Alpine team is a perfect example. Osborne - Paradis and Robbie Dixon skied with a gold or attidue bust. They took very aggressive lines that no other racer was taking in an effort to cut corners in order to come out on top. However, those lines (and their charged up attitude) led to over aggression and they couldn't handle the lines they were trying to ski. Then you see the favorites, and even Eric Guay, ski calm with a slightly more conservative line and get results and actualy finish the races. It was the same with the women. There was one turn that only Canada was cutting off in the Women's Super G. What happens? 2 Canada women lose their race on that one corner. Too much focus on Golds by alpine canada and I think thats the problem with the Own the Podium. The concept is good, it just needs tweaking. Focus on MEDALS not just Golds, and put more value on the psychological aspect.

I think what proves my point is what Jon Montgomery and Alex Bilodeau said. Almost word for word when they were asked is there too much pressure. They just sat in the start saying they have no regrets over the last 4 years and the are more preapared than ever. I don't hear that same type of talk by atheletes who are not achieving their goals.

And can we please not use the word "choke". That is so incredibly unfair to the Athletes you have no idea. None of us have any idea what its like to be in their shoes and ahve the type of pressure they have so lets be more fair to the athletes ok. I for one am damn proud of the athletes so far and they deserve a ton of praise regardless if they reach their expectations or not. They carry more pressure on their shoulders than we culd every dream of.

I am so very glad you articulated so well all of that Cross. I myself don't know all of the specific logistics of the entire emphasis of OWN THE PODIUM but it was through my assumption that the attitude expressed was as you have stated "Gold or bust" And basically we all want to see our athletes get the opportunity to have the highest level of training both physically and psychology and I am glad you have pointed out that there is a lag in the Psychological Emphasis as I too think that is one of the most important factors.

To give a bit of background I myself when I was young was being groomed to be an Olympic Competitor in the sport of International Skeet Shooting. At that time I had my own Coach working with me but additionally I met with the Olympic Coach, Olympic Trainer and Olympic Psychologist. Now I was pretty young and thought it a bit silly at the time but looking back there was a very high emphasis on the psychological factor to sport and it was through the years that I realized that it enters into just about every sport on the planet to different degrees mind you, but it is there and I fully agree that I too would like to see a bit more emphasis on it.

This Olympics being a major test factor does point out that the training is there physically but the area of improvement is leaning towards the Psychological Training.

I am very proud of our athletes and I too agree that people shouldn't be using words like CHOKE at all as it is mean, hurtful and ill informed, reactionary negativity that has no place in reference to our Canadian Athletes whatsoever.

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Guest jsheajr

Well nobody has to worry about this kitty scratching anyone, I just chewed my claw nails to the pads.... Come on Team Canada, stay focused.... focused!!!!!!

But anyways, I still very hopeful for this whole team contingent this year. Of course the Program directors will tweak the training a bit more. But it's a good improvement. It's like that patient that's in the ER after being a victim of some ungodly heinous crime by some evil doer. And that victim was lucky enough paramedics did the "CLEAR!!" thing to him or her, and now is slowly recovering, and out in the world again.

But what should be done in the NEXT four years? btw, this kid at church, she's going to be on the Skeleton team for 2014. (Had a photo of the olympic torch, because Cocacola did a competition to let kids run the torch if they're in sports,think I'll post it here in "Post yourself thread" (well that and my cute little blue uniform... REALLY BLUE??!? Blue has nothing to do with Canada!). Wow Skeleton looks sooooo fun. If anything, these games make me want to go out and play in the snow some more, instead of being a world of warcrack addict (although that is fun too). Definatly got to save up, grab a Banff or whatever hostel pass, get some nice fresh air. (I gets to explore a bit of Whistler, before my volunteer duties begin. I have never been to a mountain ski village before, and I'm like 2.5 hours from Banff, can you believe that?). roll.gifroll.gifroll.gif.

But man such flexibility of the skiiers, jumping off a jump into a landing curve, only to flexibly shove the thighs, before you smash into the trees. To shift on the sled to gain that nano second of turning, or flipping like a ninja doing the jumps. Amazing simply amazing whatever the country.

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Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir with a flawless performance to take the gold medal. They stole the show.

INCROYABLE!!!!! FELICITAIONS POUR UNE PERFORMANCE SPECTACULAIRE!!!!! Well done!

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Guest jsheajr

Poor Spanish skier, Delgado, she wiped out, but it was very cute how that didn't phase her, she just laughed and spread her arms. She looks like a very fun personality.

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Poor Spanish skier, Delgado, she wiped out, but it was very cute how that didn't phase her, she just laughed and spread her arms. She looks like a very fun personality.

Ski+ was so entertaining. Did you see what happened to Delgado out of the gate? When she hit the Aztec she didn't make the top, did the splits sideways & then fell backwards. And she still made it to the finish line. 

I also thought the qualifying run by Livinskaya where she lost her poles halfway & still finished the race to qualify. It was sad to see her accident. I wish  some of the Canadian athletes had her drive to compete like Dominic Maltais.

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Why is it so hard to find Olympics highlights online? I don't want to turn on the TV... is there an online-way to catch up on the games and highlights for each day?

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Talk about Joannie Rochette. Wow. What a performance. One of the most emotional moments that I've seen in sports. Even I was a little misty eyed when she finished that flawless routine. The only thing I can compare this to is Kenton Smith lacing up his skates for the Hitmen in the Memorial Cup back in 1999 when his mom died a few days before. 

Props to Joannie.  

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Indeed Joannie sets the bar in regards to courage. Her sport unlike Hockey (Kenton Smith) or Football (Favre) once she steps on the ice is 100% Individual effort, heart and courage to begin with let alone just a couple short days after her Mother has passed. There is no team mates for her that can pass her the jumps she has to perform or catch her when she hits the ice. There is no one out there but her. Additionally the Mom of pretty much any figure skater is the one person they are closest to other than their coach of course. Their Mom is the one that travels miles to get them to training and competition. Their Mother is the one with unwavering support for them all through the years of their progression in their sport.

To even agree to compete due to the circumstances is gold #1 for Joannie in my mind and last night's personal best performance out of her in the short program is gold#2. I know only one gold medal can be won in women's figure skating but it is the symbolism of which that I speak.

The level of inspiration to her fellow Team Canada that she is setting right now is unprecedented in the history of sport and my hopes are that all the athletes right now competing on behalf of Canada are closely watching and paying attention because there is more inspiration to be gained from Joannie than is needed to vault any one of our athletes up to a world class podium performance.

Kudos to you Joannie. You are my new hero and Rick Hansen was my first so your in pretty good company where you already stand in my mind.

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I totally disagree with the idea that Own the Podium is a failure. Is it a resounding success? No, but the concept is sound. The problem is they expected fairly short term results. In the grand scheme of things 4 or 5 years is not quite enough time to expect results when your talking about elite level competition. Especially when Canada doesn't own multiple facilities in many sports, ie sliding events, Ovals etc. I also believe the COC doens't quite get it. Its not about technology, its not about training time, its about psychology alot of the times too. I constantly see Canadians not have their best performances at the Olympic games. Denny Morrison, the Hamlin brothers, even Emile Heymens in the summer games all come to mind. Technology and constant hours of training isn't going to help that, mental preparation is and I dont' think the COC puts near enough emphasis on that field.

Own the podium has backfired somewhat, becuase I believe it put way too much emphasis on winning golds. I say its not a failure, becuase Canada is on pace to win more golds (i believe anyway) that it every has and to lead all countries in Gold medals. If you look back on past games, typically Canada is more about the Bronze and silver than Gold, so you have to say Own the Podium is working to a certain extent.

However, Chairman is on the right track that I think it also has placed too much pressure on athletes and given this "gold or bust" attitude. The Alpine team is a perfect example. Osborne - Paradis and Robbie Dixon skied with a gold or attidue bust. They took very aggressive lines that no other racer was taking in an effort to cut corners in order to come out on top. However, those lines (and their charged up attitude) led to over aggression and they couldn't handle the lines they were trying to ski. Then you see the favorites, and even Eric Guay, ski calm with a slightly more conservative line and get results and actualy finish the races. It was the same with the women. There was one turn that only Canada was cutting off in the Women's Super G. What happens? 2 Canada women lose their race on that one corner. Too much focus on Golds by alpine canada and I think thats the problem with the Own the Podium. The concept is good, it just needs tweaking. Focus on MEDALS not just Golds, and put more value on the psychological aspect.

I think what proves my point is what Jon Montgomery and Alex Bilodeau said. Almost word for word when they were asked is there too much pressure. They just sat in the start saying they have no regrets over the last 4 years and the are more preapared than ever. I don't hear that same type of talk by atheletes who are not achieving their goals.

And can we please not use the word "choke". That is so incredibly unfair to the Athletes you have no idea. None of us have any idea what its like to be in their shoes and ahve the type of pressure they have so lets be more fair to the athletes ok. I for one am damn proud of the athletes so far and they deserve a ton of praise regardless if they reach their expectations or not. They carry more pressure on their shoulders than we culd every dream of.

On Own the Podium:

(1) There is no problem having a formal national program to help develop amateur athletes. Australia does it, so does China. As Sports fans it is probably something we all agree with, although others may not, it isn't really that much money in the big picture. 

(2) The problem I have with the program was the aspect that limited access to facilities for foreign athletes. Something I think a lot of people missed here but what was acutely picked up by all other nations. Limiting access to the sliding, hill and skating facilities to other nations in an attempt to gain an advantage was unsportsmanlike. Restricting access to the very min time allowed by the rules, this broke past Olympic tradition and was one of the big failures of these Games.   

The pursuit of medals should not come at the cost of international goodwill and fairness, especially at the Olympics. It is this aspect of the Own the Podium program I think that taints the program as a whole. The pursuit of medals at all costs. Not the idea of having a National Program to develop athletes. 

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[quote name='Flame111 wrote:


cross16']
I totally disagree with the idea that Own the Podium is a failure. Is it a resounding success? No, but the concept is sound.
The problem is they expected fairly short term results. In the grand scheme of things 4 or 5 years is not quite enough time to expect results when your talking about elite level competition. Especially when Canada doesn't own multiple facilities in many sports, ie sliding events, Ovals etc. I also believe the COC doens't quite get it. Its not about technology, its not about training time, its about psychology alot of the times too. I constantly see Canadians not have their best performances at the Olympic games. Denny Morrison, the Hamlin brothers, even Emile Heymens in the summer games all come to mind. Technology and constant hours of training isn't going to help that, mental preparation is and I dont' think the COC puts near enough emphasis on that field.

Own the podium has backfired somewhat, becuase I believe it put way too much emphasis on winning golds. I say its not a failure, becuase Canada is on pace to win more golds (i believe anyway) that it every has and to lead all countries in Gold medals. If you look back on past games, typically Canada is more about the Bronze and silver than Gold, so you have to say Own the Podium is working to a certain extent.

However, Chairman is on the right track that I think it also has placed too much pressure on athletes and given this "gold or bust" attitude. The Alpine team is a perfect example. Osborne - Paradis and Robbie Dixon skied with a gold or attidue bust. They took very aggressive lines that no other racer was taking in an effort to cut corners in order to come out on top. However, those lines (and their charged up attitude) led to over aggression and they couldn't handle the lines they were trying to ski. Then you see the favorites, and even Eric Guay, ski calm with a slightly more conservative line and get results and actualy finish the races. It was the same with the women. There was one turn that only Canada was cutting off in the Women's Super G. What happens? 2 Canada women lose their race on that one corner. Too much focus on Golds by alpine canada and I think thats the problem with the Own the Podium. The concept is good, it just needs tweaking. Focus on MEDALS not just Golds, and put more value on the psychological aspect.

I think what proves my point is what Jon Montgomery and Alex Bilodeau said. Almost word for word when they were asked is there too much pressure. They just sat in the start saying they have no regrets over the last 4 years and the are more preapared than ever. I don't hear that same type of talk by atheletes who are not achieving their goals.

And can we please not use the word "choke". That is so incredibly unfair to the Athletes you have no idea. None of us have any idea what its like to be in their shoes and ahve the type of pressure they have so lets be more fair to the athletes ok. I for one am damn proud of the athletes so far and they deserve a ton of praise regardless if they reach their expectations or not. They carry more pressure on their shoulders than we culd every dream of.

 

(2) The problem I have with the program was the aspect that limited access to facilities for foreign athletes. Something I think a lot of people missed here but what was acutely picked up by all other nations. Limiting access to the sliding, hill and skating facilities to other nations in an attempt to gain an advantage was unsportsmanlike. Restricting access to the very min time allowed by the rules, this broke past Olympic tradition and was one of the big failures of these Games.   

The pursuit of medals should not come at the cost of international goodwill and fairness, especially at the Olympics. It is this aspect of the Own the Podium program I think that taints the program as a whole. The pursuit of medals at all costs. Not the idea of having a National Program to develop athletes. 

Just to note though Flame, was that was not a design of Own the Podium and was not done by the COC if I recall correctly. Only the sliding center was limited and that was not a decision I support either. It was not inline with what the Own the Podium was designed to do, it was simply a small group of people that took a concept a little too far.

But its extremely unfair to link that to Own the Podium. Own the Podium is designed strictly to give amateur athletes a program and funding on a long term basis needed in order to grow within a sport and as you said its very suond. The problem was people overracting and it led to the restricting of the Whistler sliding track. That should not reflect on Own the Podium as it was simply a small group of peole that made that decision and I completely agree it was not a correct one and was unfair. But nothing is perfect.

    

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[quote name='cross16 wrote:


Flame111 wrote:

cross16']
I totally disagree with the idea that Own the Podium is a failure. Is it a resounding success? No, but the concept is sound.
The problem is they expected fairly short term results. In the grand scheme of things 4 or 5 years is not quite enough time to expect results when your talking about elite level competition. Especially when Canada doesn't own multiple facilities in many sports, ie sliding events, Ovals etc. I also believe the COC doens't quite get it. Its not about technology, its not about training time, its about psychology alot of the times too. I constantly see Canadians not have their best performances at the Olympic games. Denny Morrison, the Hamlin brothers, even Emile Heymens in the summer games all come to mind. Technology and constant hours of training isn't going to help that, mental preparation is and I dont' think the COC puts near enough emphasis on that field.

Own the podium has backfired somewhat, becuase I believe it put way too much emphasis on winning golds. I say its not a failure, becuase Canada is on pace to win more golds (i believe anyway) that it every has and to lead all countries in Gold medals. If you look back on past games, typically Canada is more about the Bronze and silver than Gold, so you have to say Own the Podium is working to a certain extent.

However, Chairman is on the right track that I think it also has placed too much pressure on athletes and given this "gold or bust" attitude. The Alpine team is a perfect example. Osborne - Paradis and Robbie Dixon skied with a gold or attidue bust. They took very aggressive lines that no other racer was taking in an effort to cut corners in order to come out on top. However, those lines (and their charged up attitude) led to over aggression and they couldn't handle the lines they were trying to ski. Then you see the favorites, and even Eric Guay, ski calm with a slightly more conservative line and get results and actualy finish the races. It was the same with the women. There was one turn that only Canada was cutting off in the Women's Super G. What happens? 2 Canada women lose their race on that one corner. Too much focus on Golds by alpine canada and I think thats the problem with the Own the Podium. The concept is good, it just needs tweaking. Focus on MEDALS not just Golds, and put more value on the psychological aspect.

I think what proves my point is what Jon Montgomery and Alex Bilodeau said. Almost word for word when they were asked is there too much pressure. They just sat in the start saying they have no regrets over the last 4 years and the are more preapared than ever. I don't hear that same type of talk by atheletes who are not achieving their goals.

And can we please not use the word "choke". That is so incredibly unfair to the Athletes you have no idea. None of us have any idea what its like to be in their shoes and ahve the type of pressure they have so lets be more fair to the athletes ok. I for one am damn proud of the athletes so far and they deserve a ton of praise regardless if they reach their expectations or not. They carry more pressure on their shoulders than we culd every dream of.

 

(2) The problem I have with the program was the aspect that limited access to facilities for foreign athletes.
Something I think a lot of people missed here but what was acutely picked up by all other nations. Limiting access to the sliding, hill and skating facilities to other nations in an attempt to gain an advantage was unsportsmanlike. Restricting access to the very min time allowed by the rules, this broke past Olympic tradition and was one of the big failures of these Games.   

The pursuit of medals should not come at the cost of international goodwill and fairness, especially at the Olympics. It is this aspect of the Own the Podium program I think that taints the program as a whole. The pursuit of medals at all costs. Not the idea of having a National Program to develop athletes. 

Just to note though Flame, was that was not a design of Own the Podium and was not done by the COC if I recall correctly. Only the sliding center was limited and that was not a decision I support either. It was not inline with what the Own the Podium was designed to do, it was simply a small group of people that took a concept a little too far.

But its extremely unfair to link that to Own the Podium. Own the Podium is designed strictly to give amateur athletes a program and funding on a long term basis needed in order to grow within a sport and as you said its very suond. The problem was people overracting and it led to the restricting of the Whistler sliding track. That should not reflect on Own the Podium as it was simply a small group of peole that made that decision and I completely agree it was not a correct one and was unfair. But nothing is perfect.

    The Richmond Oval was also limited until Colbert made big news of it, and that kinda backfired.

  

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Guest jsheajr

What a brilliant career. She's up there with Hansen, Fox, and other kick eh Canadians. waaaaaaaaa

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WHAT A DAY FOR CANADA!

Bronze for Clara Hughes, the end of a wonderful career.

Silver in Women's Short Track Relay

Gold and Silver in Women's bobsled.

HUGE win for Canadian hockey.

Great night for Canada.

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