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Hockey_Canada1

2010 Winter Olympics

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[quote name='bigchief wrote:


Neufy_3']Argh, Robertson should've had the gold there! Unfortunately the American rider was able to make up a huge gap and take it away.

Ah well, congrats on the silver, Robertson!

I'm alright with silver! WoooHooo! Way to go Mike Robertson! thumbsup.gif

Yeah, it's always good to get a medal in an event you weren't supposed to medal in.

But man, we could've had a gold and a bronze in this event. kneeingan should've been in the final frown.gif

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Has anyone heard anything about the ice for speed skating today ? NBC here in the States showed representatives from teams in the Netherlands, China and the USA complaining it was impossible to skate on ? What is going on ? Didn't we invent the Zamboni ? Is anything being said about it in Canada ?

http://vancouver2010.blog...ce-resurfacing-problems/

Annoying to see NBC discuss how Olympians spend a lifetime preparing for their day but the ice technicians do not seem able to prepare the ice for competition. embarassed.gif

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[quote name=Flame111 wrote:


I am sure I will be viewed as a big party pooper. 

At this early stage my disappointment is primarily with VANOC and others who I suspect were applying inappropriate pressure for a 'medal' haul. Something I personally find particularly distasteful because 'medals' are to me the lowest and most irreverent measurement of a Games success for a host nation. As host county our priority in Calgary was much more on welcoming the world, in fact we put the entire world before ourselves, all of our visitors, the foreign athletes, the foreign media, everyone. Just like you would do personally if you had a guest in your home for dinner. There was hope for a medal of course but it was hardly what anyone was focused on.    

What would be a perfect games to you? To me it would be all of the nice things you mentioned above, as well as dominating on the ice and the hill. The Olympics are about hosting the world, but in it's simplest form it is athletic competition. What is the purpose of competition? To win. You ask any Canadian athlete what they want out of the games and they will tell you it is to win. They have trained too long and too hard to simply be happy to just be there. They cannot have that mentality or they have already lost. It is not only about winning medals and breaking records, but that is a significant part of it. That is why the casual fan watches and buys tickets, and why the athletes compete for their country, a lot fo which is on their own dollar.

Canada may have had that mentality 22 years ago because it hadn't yet become one of the top countries in the winter olympics. In the last decade we have finished in the top 5 for every winter games. I love Canada no matter what, but I want to win. It inspires and unites a nation. Kid's don't grow up dreaming of competing for their country at the olympics and not win anything, they dream of winning gold. Maybe if Canada was more focused on winning medals in Calgary, they might have won more. I don't believe that an emphasis on being as competitive as possible takes away from showing the world gracious hospitality.

Flame111]There is nothing minor about the death of the Georgian luger,in fact it is probably the biggest shadow you could have and yes Ithink the track could have been designed safer sooner. Instead of"better safe than sorry", we are sorry. 

Thisis something that I genuinely believe could have been corrected in twoways (1) track design itself should have been more conservative and (2)worst of all Canadian Sports officials limited other nations athletesaccess to the track in an attempt to get an edge in the medal haul,although this is within the rules it is completely contrary to theOlympic tradition as per the NY Times. If the Georgian luger had, hadthe option of doing more runs he may not have rushed his practice runs,the fatal accident may never have occurred, we will never know...

Itis just particularly offensive to me that while within the rules VANOCdecided to try and 'mine' more medals for Canada by maintaining a hometrack advantage and this is NOT in the tradition of other Olympic hostnations. They provided the most minimal exposure to the track possibleto all visiting athletes. This is not the Olympic spirit, it is selfishand offensive nationalism at the cost of someone's life. A completefailure to see the spirit of international goodwill and competition infavor of blind nationalism and simple minded medal counts. 

(1) So primarily and it is no minor thing - the safety of the athletes has not been insured. 

Likethe Georgian president, I may not know a lot about the luge trackdesign but I do think he is right in that it should not lead to adeath. How would we feel if one of our athletes died on a track inanother country ?

Other comments from Australia on the track. 

Isaid it before and I will say it again, I would trade every medal everwon by Canada in the past and in the future to have the life ofGeorgian luger back. 

Hold on here. I don;t see anyone treating his death as a minor thing. The Georgian officials and athletes have commented on how VANOC and Canada as a whole has helped them through this tragedy. And it is nothing less than that, a great tragedy. I am not sure who has said it was a minor thing.

The sport of Luge is all about pushing the limits of the human body and the sled, defying gravity and going as fast as possible. That is the nature of the sport. Obviously death is not just an occupational hazard, but fellow lugers said that this track was too advanced for the inexperienced Georgian. This is the fastest track in the world, but it has also passed many tests from the IOC and the International Luge governing body, and deemed safe enough for competition. Very little about the sport of Luge is 'safe'. Making a track that was completely safe would be easy, because it would be a flat field of snow.

The NY times link is dead, but I am aware of the situation in general to which you are referring. Honestly, spending BILLIONS of dollars on hosting an olympics games should gate you some sort of advantage, shouldn't it? The whole thing was blown way out of proportion anyway. Teams were granted access, but since a lot of venues weren't completed on time to allow everyone access, it was impossible. To say THAT caused the young man's life is offensive. But I guess this goes back to our difference in philosophy where you believe "everyone is a winner" while I think this is still elite athletic competition.

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[quote name='The_Don wrote:


Flame111']
I am sure I will be viewed as a big party pooper. 

At this early stage my disappointment is primarily with VANOC and others who I suspect were applying inappropriate pressure for a 'medal' haul. Something I personally find particularly distasteful because
'medals' are to me the lowest and most irreverent measurement of a Games success for a host nation.
As host county our priority in Calgary was much more on welcoming the world.  

What would be a perfect games to you? To me it would be all of the nice things you mentioned above, as well as dominating on the ice and the hill. The Olympics are about hosting the world, but in it's simplest form it is athletic competition. (1) What is the purpose of competition? To win. You ask any Canadian athlete what they want out of the games and they will tell you it is to win. They have trained too long and too hard to simply be happy to just be there. They cannot have that mentality or they have already lost. It is not only about winning medals and breaking records, but that is a significant part of it. That is why the casual fan watches and buys tickets, and why the athletes compete for their country, a lot fo which is on their own dollar.

Canada may have had that mentality 22 years ago because it hadn't yet become one of the top countries in the winter olympics. In the last decade we have finished in the top 5 for every winter games. I love Canada no matter what, but I want to win. It inspires and unites a nation. Kid's don't grow up dreaming of competing for their country at the olympics and not win anything, they dream of winning gold. (2) Maybe if Canada was more focused on winning medals in Calgary, they might have won more. I don't believe that an emphasis on being as competitive as possible takes away from showing the world gracious hospitality.

Hold on here. I don;t see anyone treating his death as a minor thing. The Georgian officials and athletes have commented on how VANOC and Canada as a whole has helped them through this tragedy. And it is nothing less than that, a great tragedy. I am not sure who has said it was a minor thing.

The sport of Luge is all about pushing the limits of the human body and the sled, defying gravity and going as fast as possible. That is the nature of the sport. Obviously death is not just an occupational hazard, but (3) fellow lugers said that this track was too advanced for the inexperienced Georgian. This is the fastest track in the world, but it has also passed many tests from the IOC and the International Luge governing body, and deemed safe enough for competition. Very little about the sport of Luge is 'safe'. Making a track that was completely safe would be easy, because it would be a flat field of snow.

The NY times link is dead, but I am aware of the situation in general to which you are referring. Honestly, (4) spending BILLIONS of dollars on hosting an olympics games should gate you some sort of advantage, shouldn't it? The whole thing was blown way out of proportion anyway. Teams were granted access, but since a lot of venues weren't completed on time to allow everyone access, it was impossible. To say THAT caused the young man's life is offensive. But I guess this goes back to our difference in philosophy where you believe "everyone is a winner" while I think this is still elite athletic competition.

WOW - I can't believe how lost you are on this one Don but again maybe it makes sense in a way for why things are going sideways in Vancouver. I think you may be personally reflecting and summing up the problem with VANOC as a whole. You do not even know the Olympic Creed in which many take the Spirit of the Games to be best expressed. Evidence itself that the Spirit of the Games is not in Vancouver. 

The "everyone is a winner' or the important part is 'not to win, but to take part' that you mock or feel is not the point, IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF THE OLYMPICS !!!embarassed.gif  It is why the Olympics is so unique and unlike every other international sporting event in the world from the Stanley Cup, to the World Cup, to the Super bowl, no other sporting competition HAS this creed. 

The modern Olympics INVENTED it in 1908 and the notion has had such appeal that this attitude in sporting has been attempted by some to be transferred to all sports in the 20th century, especially where children are involved. It never was before, if you were a child playing cricket in 19th century England and you gave your best effort and lost, you would know it and even your own parents likely would not even have the concept in their mind that competing to the best of your ability was what was important. Are we all just the epitome of bad hockey parents screaming at the ice now, so obsessed are we with winning at all costs? 

The Olympics were NEVER intended to be this kind of sporting competition, they were intended to be the exact opposite, that is what makes them so revered. It really is a shame that we do not seem to be able anymore to recognize and support our own athletes who are Olympians and among the best in the world if they do not win a medal at the games. Are we now in 2010 just turning our back on them and walking away, much the way I imagine parents of children in the 19th century did when their children lost in a sport. How sad that this seems to be the mentality now in 2010. You have expressed the very anti-thesis of what the modern Olympics were intended to be, it isn't about the host nation 'dominating on the ice and hill' how sad, it is about supporting all the athletes and young Olympians of the world as they give their best efforts...

This isn't my opinion or a philosophical difference, it is the very definition of the Olympic Games from the Olympic Creed itself, is it not up on every scoreboard at every event ? I think it was at all events in Calgary, it was for sure at Canada Olympic Park which is where I volunteered. It is what makes the Olympics different from all other sporting events in the world, I can't believe it. You have completely negated it, even explicitly stated as much, that is the world championships held each year, not the Olympics. Elite athletes giving their best efforts is what matters at the Olympics, not winning, it truly is a shame that some Canadians and as host nation we have forgotten this from Montreal and Calgary and now appear to be a medal obsessed nation. It is why the Olympics rises above the World Championships held each year where winning is all that matters.  

The Olympic Creed - "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well."

(2) If you get a chance to actually talk to an athlete they will probably answer you that their goal is to do their personal best, if that results in winning a medal it is a bonus and great honor and I am extremely proud of the mere 5 athletes who won medals in Calgary. I am also extremely proud of all our athletes who made the Olympic teams even if they did not medal, if they competed fairly and gave their best effort. 

(3) Other lugers from Australia, Germany, Italy, and so forth have questioned the track. You want to ignore the similar comments in the media of those countries, ok. I am not sure what the spin is, in Canada, comments about an elevator on ice, feeling like a crash test dummy and a lemming are all there in the international press from other elite lugers.

(4) Again, you have just got the whole concept of the Olympics upside down on this. There absolutely should be no 'home field' advantage aside from maybe the cheering crowd and if the Olympic Spirit has truly taken root in the crowd they will cheer all the athletes. I don't care if you spend a trillion dollars, quite the contrary, as host nation we should be bending over backwards to give all visitors priority to all events and tracks. In fact I am very sad and even ashamed that Vanoc has broken the Olympic tradition and now set an ugly precedent for all future games. 

Here is a quote from the NY Times article, I can't believe the Times is being blocked into Canada, the article is still active for me. But the same theme and annoyance is there from several other countries media, if you chose to look for it and want to take the time to use an on-line translator. This type of article is being pumped out all over the world now thanks to Vanoc. How do you think people see Canadians now ? 

"Canadian sports officials will face criticism for giving athletes from other countries relatively little access to most Olympic venues in an effort to give Canadians a competitive advantage for the Games. Canada’s Own the Podium program pumped about $110 million into a medal push for the home team. It set a goal of 35 medals, and the sliding sports of luge, bobsled and skeleton were viewed as likely mines for gold, silver and bronze.

While Vancouver Organizing Committee officials followed the guidelines established by sports federations for allowing access, they did NOT follow tradition. (capitals added) Many athletes and federations from other countries were peeved over the relatively little training time on venues, from the ski courses to the speedskating oval and the sliding center." (J. Branch and J. Abrams reporting for the NY Times)

I can not believe that the reporting of the NY Times is being blocked into Canada. Plus all of those visitors are going to back to their home countries to talk about the Games in Canada as well.

Finally, to return to your first point. There is no PERFECT games Don. 

But I think there are successful ones and unsuccessful ones. The most unsuccessful one of all was Munich 72 because it failed to provide safety to the visiting athletes. The Nazi games of 1936 are also viewed as a unsuccessful games because they showed the poor taste of the host nation using it as an opportunity to promote its own nationalism and stupid 'aryan' medal winners over the true spirit of games (thank you Jesse Owens for ruining the games of the Nazi medal obsessed morons caught up in blind nationalism). And finally a host nation that fails to provide facilities for the athletes to compete on fairly and equitably is another example of a unsuccessful games imo but that is technical. I also personally think when the people of the host nation have forgotten the Olympic creed that might also count as a bit of a problem but that is just me, in my experience in Calgary it was very important and discussed all the time, maybe it means nothing now but cheering other athletes from other countries is what the Olympic Spirit meant in 88, that is where you find the magic of the Olympics (imo), of a successful games and transcend the nationalism of even your own country by being host country. 

In short Don, I doubt anyone has read this far but you, my view is that Vanoc and other powers that be appear to really have missed the point of the Games. I don't know if you believe in ghosts, or jinxes or whatever but if you as a Vancouver Olympic Volunteer did not even know the Olympic creed how can you expect your Olympics to go well, you are not even having an Olympics, you are just having a big sporting event as you said...

If everyone is totally obsessed with winning medals and showing the world Canadian sporting glory like, (should I reference Berlin, no I won't) or other nations who are hyper nationalist, well that isn't the Canada I left, maybe it is the one I will return to one day but after living in the States for so many years, it would be nice to come home to a nation that has enough confidence and self-esteem in itself that it knows the number of medals it wins mean absolutely nothing if it comes at the cost of having the world look upon you less favorably because of it. 

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Good to see some medals coming in over the last 2 days! It's been a pretty good show over the last 48 hours compared to the series of unfortunate events in the beginning. I thought I'd only be paying great attention to the hockey like I usually am but I've found myself watching 3 hours + of action everyday so far, I even watched some figure skating today!embarassed.gif 

Best part of the day: When Mike Robertson is asked about how he'll celebrate tonight "Well hopefully I'll have time to have a couple brews, but I dunno" what a Canadian! happy.gif

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Ivan Skobrev won the first bronze medal for Russia at the 5000 metres Speed Skating!

Congratulations to Ivan Skobrev and all the Olympians of all countries who are striving for their personal bests... thumbsup.gif

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Maelle Ricker wins gold in women's snowboard cross! Congrats Maelle!

Great to see Canadians at the top of both sides of this sport happy.gif

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Guest jsheajr

I like the Team Canada women's team, you see pretty eyes in the behind the helmets.

But how did Jeremy Wotherspoon get so many screws in his arm like that? OUCH poor guy.

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Well I think we hit the tipping point today with the messing up of the Biathlon. http://content.usatoday.c...ns-but-swedes-carry-on/1

_____________

Plus Vanoc is having problems with the International Press who are reporting what they are seeing, a reality that is not being seen by Vanoc.
 
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After writing such a long emotional post, here are a couple links from other media, just so people don't think I am being a 'negative nancy' and am all alone with my particular view of how the Vancouver Games are going so far. They are being called the Glitch Games.

http://www.chron.com/disp.../ap/top/all/6870143.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...1314/ns/travel-seasonal/

http://www.washingtonpost.../15/AR2010021502641.html

http://www.thisislondon.c...-venues-turn-to-slush.do

The press in Britain - which gets the next Olympics, in London - has questioned whether these are the worst games ever, that makes me jump up and defend the Vancouver games for sure. A very insensitive thing to say in light of Munich, Berlin, Atlanta (the commercial coke games).

The National Post jumped in to defend, the link has the comments from the British press in the article which is better than giving several links, they are NOT the worst games of all time, making such a comment shows a complete lack of knowledge of Olympic history.

But do keep in mind that the critique is growing in the media in all countries, so don't go jump on an anti-Brit bandwagon, although they are making some of the most harsh critical comments and calling them the worst games ever is absurd. Munich 72 will hold that title hopefully till the end of time.

http://network.nationalpo...ing-for-the-jugular.aspx

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You know, who gives a flying **** about all of these small nitpicky problems? (ice problems, weather problems) Really? Do we care if the Brits think these are the worst Olympics ever? Events haven't been cancelled outright, just delayed. Bad (unfavourable) weather happens, and I can guarantee you that the London games will have events rescheduled due to weather at some point, be it rain, or fog.

So far, the ticket scandal in Calgary and having to delay many outdoor events on the last day due to warm weather stand out in my mind about the Calgary games; yet nobody seemed to harp on these matters nearly as much as these minor issues (especially issues out of Vanoc's control, like the weather)

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AOPJ12.jpgAOPJ12.jpgAOPJ12.jpg

JAROME IGINLA FOR THE HAT TRICK AT THE OPENING GAME FOR TEAM CANADA!!!!!!!

WOO HOO !!!!!!!

GO IGGY GO!!!!!!!!

8 to 0 over Norway!!!!!!!
GOOD START!!!!!!!
LUONGO FOR THE SHUT OUT!!!!!!!

WOO HOO!!!!!!!

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So far, the ticket scandal in Calgary and having to delay many outdoor events on the last day due to warm weather stand out in my mind about the Calgary games; yet nobody seemed to harp on these matters nearly as much as these minor issues (especially issues out of Vanoc's control, like the weather)
I wonder why these events have seemed to have been erased from Flame11's memory. I wonder what might be clouding his judgement...

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Anyone know why they took away his hat trick? Official box score has Nash for the goal now. Looked like a pretty clear tip in to me...
Awe who cares though really.

WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH RIGHT? IT'S OUR GAME AFTER ALL!!!!!!!

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The powers that be will not let our beloved Iggy upstage the Crosby & Kovy show.

We know who he is and what he can do. In reality, based on his play in the last few NHL games, was this

performance really a shock to anyone; not metongue.gif.

Congratulations to all the Canadian athletes in competition so far, regardless of success or failure. Just the mere fact you

qualified for the Olympic Games is astronomically more than 99.99% of our population can ever hope to accomplish athletically.

3.gif210px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png

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