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ifiwaschucknorris

Win One For The......kipper?

  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. What is the reason for Miika's declining play this year?

    • He is getting old and slow.
    • He has lost faith in this team and is looking for a way out.
      0
    • It's mental. He has lost the winner mentality and belief in himself.
    • It's just a slide, he will pick it up.
    • NOTHING!!!


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I would like to know what all of you in the Forum think...

In many ways and in many opinions this team has played well enough over the last month to see itself much closer to the playoff picture if not actually in the playoffs. The goal scoring is up, Iggy is rediscovering his magic with Tangs, Giordano looks like Scott Niedermayer lite, and Jokinen has finally started to rediscover his offensive game.

The holes in the Calgary Flames have become one big hole...and it's the 5-hole.

Don't believe me? Take a look at the stats:

Miika Kiprusoff this year as of 01/12/11

36 GP (3rd)

16 Wins (tied for 11th...With VOKOUN in Florida...Ugh)

.901 SV% (33rd)

2.73 GAA (28th)

97 GA (worst in the league, next worst within 1 game play of him is Cam Ward with 88 in 35 games)

The Flames as a team:

2.63 G/G (19th)

2.91 GA/G (19th)

31.2 S/G (14th)

27.7 SA/G (2ND)

The team numbers are not indicative of a team struggling to get to 13th in the conference.

When I see a team give up the 2nd least shots/game in the NHL and sitting 19th in GA/G that means somebody is not doing their job. Yes we all love to bail out Kipper and say the team is letting him down and the scoring chances given up were impossible but at some point it comes down to one thing.

He has to stop the puck more. If Kipper was playing like he did last year this Flames team would be top ten in GA/G and would most likely be in a playoff spot.(Pure conjecture I know but look at how many late or soft goals he has given up this year and the try and disagree)

This is strictly my opinion but I voted for him losing faith in this team.

He is not as married to this city as we would all like to think. He goes home to Finland every summer. He is hardly ever seen out in public except at team events. He doesn't look like he is enjoying himself.

Remember when he tried that fist pump after Karlsson did it in the shootout?

The old Kipper would have quietly smiled at it but NEVER tried to emulate him.

Maybe Kipper feels it's time for a change too?

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I'm just pissed at Butter right now. He publicly criticized Kipper today, article on TSN.

Basically

''Kipper how come you aren't the only reason why we're winning game anymore?

''Please stop every pucks, your struggling but after bailing us for 70 games last year if you have two or three bad games you're gonna hear it''

:huh:

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I'm just pissed at Butter right now. He publicly criticized Kipper today, article on TSN.

Basically

''Kipper how come you aren't the only reason why we're winning game anymore?

''Please stop every pucks, your struggling but after bailing us for 70 games last year if you have two or three bad games you're gonna hear it''

:huh:

I didn't like it either...

That makes it 3 times that Butter has criticized Kipper to the press recently...

Yeah, this last game he made some mistakes, but I think in the other 2 games he made enough goal robbing saves to more than make up for the couple of softies he let in... I don't think he should have called him out on either of those 2 games...

I can understand Butters comments after the last game, but it just like the earlier in the season, when he constantly repeats himself to preach the same mantra, he begins to look like he is fresh out of ideas and is perhaps not capable of doing anything to improve on his original "system"... He seems like he already has a reason prepared (read "excuse") for the press on too many occasions...

If Kipper reverts to his usual self, which I think he will, I don't believe it is due to anything Butter had to say... That's just Kipper...

As I have said elsewhere, I am not saying Butter is not a good coach... I just think his time as coach for the Flames should be over...

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I would vote for "Kipper is overplayed" if it were an option. I also would have vote for that in each of the last 4 years.

Pretty much, this.

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I agree, kipper put up his best numbers playing 38 games, i know he played a lot in the second half but its still not the same as playing 70+ for 5 seasons straight. Were already 14th in the conference, kipper isnt getting younger, karlsson has his flashes of amazing play so i say we play him more

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I don't think there is any difference between Karlsson and Kipper at this point, no real advantage to playing Kip. I think if Karlsson started a few in a row, he could get rolling and easily replace the 33rd goalie in the league right now (considering the SA% quoted above). Karlsson's heart is in it, Kipp's is not.

Trade Kipp as part of a package out of here. He's got no real value the way he's been playing lately. He can be easily replaced.

He's tired and overplayed. No value in the rebuild (he's old). So no value right now.

He wants out anyway.

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I don't think there is any difference between Karlsson and Kipper at this point, no real advantage to playing Kip. I think if Karlsson started a few in a row, he could get rolling and easily replace the 33rd goalie in the league right now (considering the SA% quoted above). Karlsson's heart is in it, Kipp's is not.

Trade Kipp as part of a package out of here. He's got no real value the way he's been playing lately. He can be easily replaced.

He's tired and overplayed. No value in the rebuild (he's old). So no value right now.

He wants out anyway.

Kipper has a few weak games and so he has no value? Ok, your opinion has been noted. *facepalm*

Do you have a link to support your "Kipper wants out" statement?

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And for the 170th time of his career, Kipper gets thrown under the bus.

Seriously, start Karlsson over Kiprusoff and it's not much difference?

How is it we don't focus on our forwards as the #1 issue?

Something in the fact we went quantity over quality at forward and took too many blind leaps of faith in particular forwards, or just plain and simply overrated them.

What I will get on Kipper about, is not scoring in the plethora of games we score too little to win.

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Slide came closest to my opinion.

He can't perform miracles on every shot & he isn't getting much help in the way of scoring from his team. It's a banana knowing allowing 2 goals means you'll probably lose.

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Kipper has a few weak games and so he has no value? Ok, your opinion has been noted. *facepalm*

This isn't a few bad starts. Kipper hasn't been great at all this year. His stats are actually horrible (amongst the worst starters in the league). I'll say he's better than his stats show, but not much. He's certainly not elite. Thomas, Pavelec, Rinne, Hiller, Lundqvist... these guy can steal games. Kipper isn't in the same category as these boys.

Do you have a link to support your "Kipper wants out" statement?

No, but he's got no connection to Calgary. Why would he want to be here? He works for a coach that publically embarasses him and a team that will not be a conteder for the remainder of his NHL career. Why would he want to be here? No reason at all.

Seriously, start Karlsson over Kiprusoff and it's not much difference?

No, it's not much of a difference. They've got the same save percentage and Karlsson has a better GAA. Statistically, I'd say Karlsson is the better goalie. We're not sure how clutch he is at this point though. Kipper certainly doesn't have a great record either. Yup. I'm calling it a draw pretty much. Karlsson was fantastic against the Canes.

How is it we don't focus on our forwards as the #1 issue?

If you noticed any of my other posts, I do think forwards are the big issue. But against Detroit and Carolina, Kipper was the problem 100%. We scored 10 goals in two games. Those need to be wins 100% of the time. The forwards have stepped it up. And Kipper let them all down.

What I will get on Kipper about, is not scoring in the plethora of games we score too little to win.

Teams do struggle to score in front of a weak goalie, too affraid to make mistakes to take the chances needed to score. Not saying that's the majority of the problem here though. Scoring issues just see Butter and his 1990's style system.

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Motivation has long been an issue.

The Flames only ever seem to motivate themselves over the course of a game by being physical.

That's a Sutter trait, a big hit...a fight.

There are teams in this league that are motivated by their goalie leaving it all on the ice, I'd point at the Avs, Preds and Blues for a start.

Teams are built from the backend, why Kiprusoff's work rarely motivates, I'll never know.

The Flames lack a hockey gene that involves fun and camaraderie.

Again, a Sutter trait.

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No, but he's got no connection to Calgary. Why would he want to be here? He works for a coach that publically embarasses him and a team that will not be a conteder for the remainder of his NHL career. Why would he want to be here? No reason at all.

No connection, how about an organization that gave him a second chance in this league. He wasn't exactly a hot commodity in San Jose prior to the trade. As for Brent embarrassing him I don't really know how, he's stated the obvious, plus it's not like Darryl or Keenan never criticized him, that criticism will likely occur anywhere else. Kipper takes pride in his performances I'm sure he's more disappointed in his performance than anybody else.

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This is a tough call, yes Kipper has had better years but still from the games i've seen he is not to blame for the losses. Maybe the coaching staff should start to play him a few less games now that he is older. Let his body recover. My vote would to play him less often and see how he plays from there.

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I would vote for "Kipper is overplayed" if it were an option. I also would have vote for that in each of the last 4 years.

I thought strongly about putting that in. Only reason I didn't was he has had Vezina caliber seasons in which he has been playing 70+ so I didn't think that was a huge issue.

It could be that its starting to take it's toll on him though.

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I have ACTUALLY changed my mind (I think that's a first for anyone on any forum :lol: )

I have to agree with jets and say Kipper will probably play better if he plays less and shares time.

Originally I figured he was giving up but to be honest I didn't give much thought to the fact that he's getting up there in years and probably can't keep the pace going. I guess I can't crucify my goalies for not being Marty Brodeur :P

P.S.

I think Kipper is the greatest acquisition since Iginla and I am in no way advocating he be run out of town unless he wants to go...lets just make that clear.

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Well Looky here,

We give Kipper a rest, Karlsson wins one for us, and then Kipper snaps out of his bad play and has a strong performance in our win against Toronto?

Maybe just a coincidence that he's playing better after a rest? Sure, a coincidence just like the last four years.

Go Kipper! Go Karlsson! There's room enough for the both of you!

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Go Kipper! Go Karlsson! There's room enough for the both of you!

Personally, I say trade Kipper.. but if you've got both, you might as well help out Karlsson's development by playing him alot more. It'd help Kipper too.

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I don't think there is any difference between Karlsson and Kipper at this point, no real advantage to playing Kip. I think if Karlsson started a few in a row, he could get rolling and easily replace the 33rd goalie in the league right now (considering the SA% quoted above). Karlsson's heart is in it, Kipp's is not.

Trade Kipp as part of a package out of here. He's got no real value the way he's been playing lately. He can be easily replaced.

He's tired and overplayed. No value in the rebuild (he's old). So no value right now.

He wants out anyway.

While there may not be much difference in the stats of the two, there is a huge difference in the teams play. Flames have for a few years now always played better in front of Kipper than the backup.

If I have to explain why, you really should not be asking for Kipper to be traded.

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exactly... my mind is changed... Thank you guys. Kipper does play better when he isnt playing every single night. Playing 70+ games can shorten and tire out his career. Kip still has plenty of playing ability and is by no means a "no value" player.

Kips and Karlsson should in fact play 50% of games each from now on. Having 2 strong goalies is a benefit not only to rest but too competitiveness. Karlsson WILL be a top 10 goalie in the NHL one day, and one day soon. I am a fan who watches 95% of games and he sparks confidence in me. For a young goalie like him, if he can play half the games and compete with Kipper for starting spot we will see a lot more effort from our tenders. I am content with our goalie situation because if persay karlsson plays well the rest of the year, then next year Kipper can be dealt for some young talent (he is worth it to many teams). lets not forget that Ortio (finish junior goalie) is our prospect and can be Karlsson's back up in a year or 2.

On the other hand, say Kipper steps up his play greatly do to some form of competition (which he has never seen before in CGY with McElhinney) then we keep him to get into the playoffs next year. Overall the goalie situation in CGY is not bad. We have many other issues in our lineup to thrive on than who our tender will be for the next game. We only have 3 or 4 guys capable of scoring more than 20 goals and game by game we struggle to get meaningful chances on net. and that is a fact.....

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While there may not be much difference in the stats of the two, there is a huge difference in the teams play. Flames have for a few years now always played better in front of Kipper than the backup.

If I have to explain why, you really should not be asking for Kipper to be traded.

Since the beginning of the month, Karlsson has been a far superior goalie and the team has played way better in front of him than Kipp.

Kipper hasn't earned the starting role based on his last few starts. Time to let the hot hand play until Karlsson struggles.

Karlsson isn't McBackup.

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Since the beginning of the month, Karlsson has been a far superior goalie and the team has played way better in front of him than Kipp.

Kipper hasn't earned the starting role based on his last few starts. Time to let the hot hand play until Karlsson struggles.

Karlsson isn't McBackup.

So you going to throw Kipper under the bus, and not give him a chance to work through his difficulties geos? Hot hand or not Karlsson is not our starter yet. Even Butter did not blame Kipper for the 4 goals he got pulled to change the momentum in the game.

While we are on momentum how about giving Butter some credit. Awesome move eh geos?

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Since the beginning of the month, Karlsson has been a far superior goalie and the team has played way better in front of him than Kipp.

Kipper hasn't earned the starting role based on his last few starts. Time to let the hot hand play until Karlsson struggles.

Karlsson isn't McBackup.

You could make the argument that Karlson struggled on the game winner tonight so Kipper is back to #1?

I count two bad games in a row from Kipper for the first time I can remember ever and two so-so games also. Possibly the worst stretch he has ever played for the Flames. It's good to have a solid backup but to say Karlson is our new starter is just plain crazy talk. I don't believe Kiprusoff has fallen into the abyss. His stats have taken a beating in several games this year on goals in which the whole team might as well have been on the bench and are not indicative of his performance this year. If he says he is good, I'd go with him without a second thought and having Karlson as backup is a luxury we haven't had forever.

I really don't understand the eagerness to push Mikka aside.

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