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Suggestion: Sign Cory Conacher


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30 replies to this topic

#1 jjgallow

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 02:08 PM

I've never seen a post here that was replied with "That's a good idea", but I'd like to throw this to the wolves anyway:

http://www2.tbo.com/...lent-ar-259683/

http://www.gogriffs....&ATCLID=1465408

http://www.hockeydb.....php?pid=104827

Cory is just 21 years old, and two inches taller than Theo Fleury.

He is an undrafted college kid, who appears to have already mastered the AHL, just a few games in.

All his college stats would indicate him being a top NHL prospect, except that:
-he never played in the OHL/WHL
-He's two inches taller than Fleury
-He developed in college

All of these factors would suggest that he may have been unfairly overlooked. Also note that he collects his fair share of penalty minutes...this is not a peripheral player.

Cory is on pace to win the AHL scoring title, and by that time some other NHL team will overlook his height and sign him.

Or, someone could just take a chance right now. The worst-case scenario here is a star AHL player...well-worth the contract.

The best case scenario is probably 20 goals in the NHL, this year, if a team signed him. AFter this year, anything is possible.

Thoughts?


p.s..I know we only have one contract left. This happens to be the best young, unsigned prospect not in the NHL right now (that I can find), that is ready to step in and contribute at the NHL/AHL level. So, I'm throwing it out there anyway. I do believe the Flames have further wiggle-room with those contracts, too.

#2 C_worthy

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:52 PM

That's a good idea

#3 jjgallow

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 04:48 PM

That's a good idea


I'll take it, lol!

#4 jjgallow

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 11:19 PM

12 points in 9 games now. I'm bumping this...I don't think he'll be around much longer before he's picked up.

Only one rookie in the AHL is doing better (Carter Ashton), and he's a first-round pick from 2009.

http://theahl.com/st...statdisplay.php

Everyone above Cory in the standings is either already signed, or way too old.


I give it until March, at the Very latest, before he's taken. I'm guessing he'll be in the NHL next year or possibly this year.

#5 Flying_Dragon

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 07:51 AM

one of the few good suggestions around here

#6 jjgallow

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:34 PM

15 points in 13 games now...

The only unsigned point-per-game youngster in the AHL, at 21 years of age. Very unlikely to finish the season as a free agent.

#7 Lancer11

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 12:27 PM

Anyone have any background information on this guy? Pretty surprising to me that he's gone relatively unnoticed at this point.

#8 jjgallow

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:03 PM

Anyone have any background information on this guy? Pretty surprising to me that he's gone relatively unnoticed at this point.


I don't think it will be much longer before he's off the free agent market.

The last time Cory Conacher was remotely on anyone's radar, he was a 16-year-old kid playing in the Ontario Junior A hockey league. He scored 65 points in 42 games, which I believe was the best in the entire league for anyone his age. Yes, he won rookie of the year. Most were at Least one year older, if not more. The scoring leader that year? Scott Freeman...with 97 points, but one year older. The year before, he had 63 points (Almost as good as Cory).

Normally, he would progress for two more years (likely in a higher league), enter his draft year, and then play somewhere else (such as College).

However, it turns out that Cory is gifted at more than hockey, and entered College a year earlier than everyone else, completely missing any normal scouting process. He was already excelling in college hockey before his draft year even came up.

Scott Freeman...by the way, is the leading scorer in the ECHL right now. He was also overlooked due to college hockey, and he'll probably be picked up before the season is over. I think the Flames should be having a conversation with him as well. Younger, better, and bigger than Mitch Wahl, for instance (who recently did a stint in the ECHL).
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=97542


Other reasons Cory has been passed over:

He's on a great line, with Carter Ashton and Trevor Smith. Carter Ashton is Tampa Bay's first pick for 2009, and progressing very nicely. Initial success in the AHL will be met with the notion that he is riding their coat-tails. However, he's now surpassed Trevor Smith, and is now only one point behind Carter Ashton. Expect to see him surpass them both, very soon.

Another reason: He was a college hockey player, and scouting is always dodgy for these guys. Think: Giordano, who was also a free agent at this age. Either teams don't know about you, or they don't want to wait around for you to graduate.

Another reason: He has type I diabetes (since the age of 8). Unlike most NHL players, Conacher would not have grown up with the same NHL dreams. He would have grown up with dreams of living a long life. Medical advances have since given him the ability to have a long life with his disease, and reconsider the NHL:
http://www.uscho.com/2010/03/09/diabetes-no-drag-for-hobey-baker-candidate-conacher

Number one reason: Size. He's 5 foot 8. Almost identical proportions to Martin St. Louis. Most this size never even make it to the AHL, of course. But, here is he is succeeding in the AHL. Neck and neck first-round picks from 2009, who in their own right are exceeding expectations.

I don't know enough myself...apparently nobody does. I would like to.

#9 kehatch

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:02 PM

Never mind, misread the post

#10 rahuldravid

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 10:24 PM

He is going to be signed and i dont think sigh yes i know we can guess but Feaster wont go after him hes after a couple of big players now and idthink he will get this kid even though i would like him to try

#11 jjgallow

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 10:57 PM

I don't think it will be much longer before he's off the free agent market.

....

He's on a great line, with Carter Ashton and Trevor Smith. Carter Ashton is Tampa Bay's first pick for 2009, and progressing very nicely. Initial success in the AHL will be met with the notion that he is riding their coat-tails. However, he's now surpassed Trevor Smith, and is now only one point behind Carter Ashton. Expect to see him surpass them both, very soon.


Well, that didn't take long. An hour or two after posting this, and Conacher picks up a goal and an assist to become the Top Rookie in the AHL with 18 points.

With half of his draft's first round picks in the AHL, they're all looking up at him (despite the height difference).

Not only is he the top Rookie, but he's the second-best young prospect in the Entire AHL, drafted or undrafted (one point behind Joe Colborne, a first round pick in the Leaf's system).

Soo...he's going to get signed now. Tampa isn't going to keep developing the top prospect in their farm system without a contract.

The Flames Could get there first...Tampa does owe us a shot at the next Martin St. Louis. I say it's worth a 50th contract. Very little downside.

#12 djdavid

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 11:06 PM

I like his numbers, and tottaly agree about college players

As far as giving him a Contract, I'd be happy with anything that allows us to spit in Tampa's face a little...*mumbles something about game 6 and Gelinas*

#13 jjgallow

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 04:30 PM

Now, Cory's second best in the entire AHL (rookies, prospects, veterans alike), with 21 points in 16 games:
http://theahl.com/st...statdisplay.php

He's only one point behind TJ Hensick (26 yrs old), and Cory has a game in hand.

At this stage, it's looking like Cory will run away with the AHL scoring title as well as top Rookie.

Not bad for a 21-year-old with no professional experience.


Does anyone know why an NHL team doesn't just sign him right now? Do they have to wait until the end of the season?

The guy's outperformed everyone the Flames have in their AHL system, and he's younger than many of our top prospects.

Just sitting there, with no contract...

#14 cross16

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 09:19 AM

Now, Cory's second best in the entire AHL (rookies, prospects, veterans alike), with 21 points in 16 games:
http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php

He's only one point behind TJ Hensick (26 yrs old), and Cory has a game in hand.

At this stage, it's looking like Cory will run away with the AHL scoring title as well as top Rookie.

Not bad for a 21-year-old with no professional experience.


Does anyone know why an NHL team doesn't just sign him right now? Do they have to wait until the end of the season?

The guy's outperformed everyone the Flames have in their AHL system, and he's younger than many of our top prospects.

Just sitting there, with no contract...


Looks like he is a UFA as there is nothing about him receiving a contract offer after leaving Tampa's camp and there would be no rules preventing him from signing with an NHL team.

#15 Flying_Dragon

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:09 AM

This is one of the best suggestions. Most of the time suggestions are so far fetched. Too bad Flames management wont take notice.

#16 jjgallow

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:41 AM

Looks like he is a UFA as there is nothing about him receiving a contract offer after leaving Tampa's camp and there would be no rules preventing him from signing with an NHL team.


bump...

Well, Cory Conacher's starting to run away with the goal-scoring title in the AHL now (at just barely 22 years of age). Seeing as most of the players close enough to catch him are significantly older, I'd say his odds of cleaning house are pretty high.
http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=top_scorers&season_id=37

One last time...is there some rule I'm missing that would stop the Flames from walking in and signing him to an NHL contract?

Is it an honour-code thing? If so, Tampa stole the cup from us and I say we steal this guy.

With those numbers, I doubt he has much development left in the AHL. He's probably a guy that will be helping Tampa, or some other NHL team, in the playoffs this year.

Does anyone have Feaster in their contacts? lol

#17 JTech780

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:38 AM

I will firstly admit that I don't know much about Conacher, at first glance at his stats they look pretty good for a rookie in the AHL.

The fact that he remains unsigned, IMO must mean that the scouts just don't see his skills translating to the NHL. He is a bit in the small side but I don't think that is as big of an issue as it once was, teams are no longer scared off by a players height.

I just wonder if his skating ability is up to snuff, if you are undersized you better have the skating ability to make up for it. At 5'8" Conacher ha to have above average quickness and skating ability to make it at the NHL level.

Now I am purely speculating on that as I have never seen Conacher play, but generally speaking the main reason why players who can score at lower levels don't make it to the NHL is because their skating isn't up to par.

#18 jjgallow

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 12:33 PM

I will firstly admit that I don't know much about Conacher, at first glance at his stats they look pretty good for a rookie in the AHL.

The fact that he remains unsigned, IMO must mean that the scouts just don't see his skills translating to the NHL. He is a bit in the small side but I don't think that is as big of an issue as it once was, teams are no longer scared off by a players height.

I just wonder if his skating ability is up to snuff, if you are undersized you better have the skating ability to make up for it. At 5'8" Conacher ha to have above average quickness and skating ability to make it at the NHL level.

Now I am purely speculating on that as I have never seen Conacher play, but generally speaking the main reason why players who can score at lower levels don't make it to the NHL is because their skating isn't up to par.


I would agree, skating would be my first assumption as well. From anything I've read or seen, skating is considered to be one of Cory's strongest assets. He's considered quite fast by all accounts.
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hockey/lightning/undrafted-free-agent-cory-conacher-in-mix-for-roster-spot-with-tampa-bay/1193124

http://www.wvec.com/sports/Admirals-rookie-Cory-Conacher-is-more-than-a-fast-learner-135698313.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

#19 Crzydrvr

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 11:06 PM

Another reason: He was a college hockey player, and scouting is always dodgy for these guys. Think: Giordano, who was also a free agent at this age. Either teams don't know about you, or they don't want to wait around for you to graduate.


Giordano was a free agent, but he had played for Owen Sound in the OHL, so the comparison is moot here in terms of graduating.

There are a lot of guys in the AHL who are supposedly highly skilled but small, notably guys like Martin St. Pierre, Keith Aucoin, Jason Krog, Corey Locke who put up big numbers in the minors but never make their mark at the NHL level. I'm not saying he can't but the odds of him actually contributing in the best league in the world, let alone scoring 20 goals in his rookie season, is as long as it is for, say, Johnny Gaudreau.

Tim Stapleton is the most recent success story of a small, prime-time scorer in the AHL who has carved out a semblance of an NHL career, but he's a role player on a marginal team at best. He's got plenty of skating and jump but he's nothing more than a depth player who is on pace for 9 goals and 13 points over 82 games. I'm not saying Conacher won't ever surpass that, BUT at this point that is where he is projected to be, if he makes the NHL at all. If Keith Aucoin can score 106 points in the AHL and never play more than 75 NHL games (with a whopping 26 points in those games, than why does Conacher, who is even SHORTER than the 5'9" Aucoin, have the ability to become a scorer?

I'm going to temper my expectations for the kid. I understand the whole "next St. Louis or Fleury" scenario, but honestly, those were aberrations. Why should a team use a precious contract on a long-shot? This isn't some cheesy feel-good sports movie. The fact is he is a 5'8" tall forward whose NHL ceiling is extremely limited. St. Louis succeeded in the NHL because of his amazing vision and playmaking abilities, and Fleury succeeded because he hacked, slashed, and clawed his way to the top. Conacher has neither the offensive gifts of St. Louis or the heart and determination of Fleury.

#20 jjgallow

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 11:09 AM

Giordano was a free agent, but he had played for Owen Sound in the OHL, so the comparison is moot here in terms of graduating.

...

I'm going to temper my expectations for the kid. I understand the whole "next St. Louis or Fleury" scenario, but honestly, those were aberrations. Why should a team use a precious contract on a long-shot? This isn't some cheesy feel-good sports movie. The fact is he is a 5'8" tall forward whose NHL ceiling is extremely limited. St. Louis succeeded in the NHL because of his amazing vision and playmaking abilities, and Fleury succeeded because he hacked, slashed, and clawed his way to the top. Conacher has neither the offensive gifts of St. Louis or the heart and determination of Fleury.


With regards to the OHL comment, I'm not sure I follow. Wouldn't this mean that Cory Conacher was scouted even less than Gio? That was the point I was trying to make...

As for St. Louis and Fleury, those are just one of many 5'8 successful players in the NHL.

For comparison, Cory Conacher is Blowing away St. Louis's AHL stats...even if you compare Conacher as a 21 year old to St. Louis as a 24 year old, Conacher is blowing him away:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=18067

Now let me take a step back: I'm not saying that Conacher will blow away St. Louis in the NHL, nor does he need to. I'm just saying that it is far too early to know that Conacher's ceiling is lower.

I'd also like to point out that the Majority of the Flame's 50 contracts are total crapshoots. They're not even total crapshoots of getting a star...they're total crapshoots of getting an NHL calibre player. Which, by the way, there is ample supply of in the free agent market every year.

So, are we really making the best use of our 50 contracts by aiming for guys who might make the NHL, when we're passing up guys who might have star potential?

I'm not suggesting giving up a first round pick here, I'm suggesting acquiring the guy basically for free.