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Karri Ramo - The Unknown G Who May Be The Key Piece


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#1 Flame111

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:54 PM

Initially I was shocked at the Bork / Cammy trade but now that I have done a little research on the other piece Karri Ramo I am more positive.

He is one of the top young G in the KHL at the moment. I think this move paves the way for a Kipper trade next year and a Ramo / Irving / Karlsson line-up for competition for #1 G.

In short my initial reaction of the Flames once again selling off the future for the "right now" with the 2nd round pick is muted. Especially if KIpper can be moved for a first, prospect or some combination that includes a 2nd rounder to make up for the one we lost.

Ramo is a G who will come to the NHL as a starter.

http://thereuschblog.com/?p=7967

Quote - "Ramo was the best goaltender in the KHL this season. He would expect to be treated as a number-one goaltender if he returned to the NHL with compensation to fit, something that would be impossible with Carey Price playing seventy games a season."

Ramo's Numbers

http://www.russianhockeyfans.com/khl/ramo-on-nhl-goalie-fighting-move-to-habs-ties-with-tortorella-230.html



#2 wally31

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:59 PM

I thought the same thing when I saw the trade.

Interesting times ahead...

#3 Heartbreaker

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:04 AM

The move clearly illustrates Jay Feaster's utmost confidence in the Tampa Bay scouting department.

With that said, it's not that far off of how we got Kiprusoff as well.

Love.

#4 Flame111

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:06 AM

The move clearly illustrates Jay Feaster's utmost confidence in the Tampa Bay scouting department.

With that said, it's not that far off of how we got Kiprusoff as well.

Love.


I think it isn't Tampa's scouting at this point. Ramo based on my quick goggling is one of the best KHL G's. He has already proven himself. The KHL is higher level than the AHL. If he comes to camp next year it will be with his eyes on starting at G and again Kipper's NTC expires at the end of this season.

This could turn into one hell of a trade for Calgary if Ramo turns out to be a good NHL starter. We could be entering days of Irving and Ramo battling for the #1 role.

So maybe this trade didn't compromise the future as much as I initially thought. If Kipper is traded and again another return of young picks and prospects is in the works - :o

#5 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:55 AM

In short my initial reaction of the Flames once again selling off the future for the "right now" with the 2nd round pick is muted. Especially if KIpper can be moved for a first, prospect or some combination that includes a 2nd rounder to make up for the one we lost.

Ramo is a G who will come to the NHL as a starter.

Wow. Just wow.

You claim drafting to be more or less a crap shoot but then the Flames make a trade for some unknown goalie who becomes the "key" piece in a trade. It's comical how your mind warps to see everything as you see fit.

The KHL is not a superior league than the AHL when it comes to preparing players for the NHL. Many people actually believe the 2nd best league in the world is the SEL. A goalie with amazing stats came out of the SEL within the last couple of years to play in the NHL. He has not come close to posting the same numbers in the NHL. Don't believe me, ask Burkie.

I'll take top 1st round NHL draft picks over miscellaneous, obscure players playing in lesser leagues any day. So would NHL GMs.

Don't count your chickens pal.

#6 C_worthy

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:09 AM

I'll take top 1st round NHL draft picks over miscellaneous, obscure players playing in lesser leagues any day. So would NHL GMs.

Don't count your chickens pal.

?

Don't count your chickens???

You claim you would rather have a draft pick than a prospect who is virtually ready for the NHL, and then you back it up with don't count your chickens?

Wow. Just wow.

#7 mrjohnnycanuck

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:32 AM

?

Don't count your chickens???

You claim you would rather have a draft pick than a prospect who is virtually ready for the NHL, and then you back it up with don't count your chickens?

Wow. Just wow.

Keep the faith Flames fans...Feaster has a plan, It's just going to take a couple of years to develope. ^_^

#8 DL44

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:38 AM

Wow. Just wow.

You claim drafting to be more or less a crap shoot but then the Flames make a trade for some unknown goalie who becomes the "key" piece in a trade. It's comical how your mind warps to see everything as you see fit.

The KHL is not a superior league than the AHL when it comes to preparing players for the NHL. Many people actually believe the 2nd best league in the world is the SEL. A goalie with amazing stats came out of the SEL within the last couple of years to play in the NHL. He has not come close to posting the same numbers in the NHL. Don't believe me, ask Burkie.

I'll take top 1st round NHL draft picks over miscellaneous, obscure players playing in lesser leagues any day. So would NHL GMs.

Don't count your chickens pal.


You're pretty lost in your post there bud...

#9 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:02 AM

You claim you would rather have a draft pick than a prospect who is virtually ready for the NHL, and then you back it up with don't count your chickens?

How do you know he's "virtually ready for the NHL"? The KHL is a differnt league than the NHL. There's less scoring for one and they also don't go to the net like they do in the NHL.

Gustavsson had unreal numbers before coming into the NHL and hasn't shown anywhere near that level of play since coming here.

Not only this goalie but my pal was already calling for Kiprusoff's trade and the sudden recoup of picks.

Any team that wants to make the playoffs and is going to put all their eggs in three unproven goalies is taking a HUGE gamble to say the least.

Maybe Ramo works out, I'm not saying he won't. I'm saying from one trade of an obscure goalie in a different league to recouping a whole bunch of picks and having 3 unknown goalies as potential starters next season when the Flames plan to be a playoff team every season is a domino effect of a whole bunch of uncertainties in his head that magically works out perfectly.

Hey, at least you're keeping him company on his wavelength.

#10 kehatch

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:19 AM

I take goalie numbers from foreign leagues with a grain of salt. Especially when that goalie won't come to Canada unless he gets the starters job. That said, a 2-round pick is a far thing for a sure NHL player. Let alone a starting goalie. So I am fine with Holland/2-round pick for Ramo if that makes people feel better about the Cammy trade.

Even if Ramo doesn't work out I like the Cammy/Bourque trade. We got the best player in a trade for once. Yay. But if Ramo turns out its icing on the cake for me.

How do you know he's "virtually ready for the NHL"? The KHL is a differnt league than the NHL. There's less scoring for one and they also don't go to the net like they do in the NHL.

Gustavsson had unreal numbers before coming into the NHL and hasn't shown anywhere near that level of play since coming here.

Not only this goalie but my pal was already calling for Kiprusoff's trade and the sudden recoup of picks.

Any team that wants to make the playoffs and is going to put all their eggs in three unproven goalies is taking a HUGE gamble to say the least.

Maybe Ramo works out, I'm not saying he won't. I'm saying from one trade of an obscure goalie in a different league to recouping a whole bunch of picks and having 3 unknown goalies as potential starters next season when the Flames plan to be a playoff team every season is a domino effect of a whole bunch of uncertainties in his head that magically works out perfectly.

Hey, at least you're keeping him company on his wavelength.


A pick isn't any more of a guarantee. In fact a 2-round pick is a fair bit less. Calgary has a fair bit of forward depth in the system. However, they lack goaltender depth. Having 3-guys that could be starters gives you better odds then having 1 or 2.

Either way, no need to get bent out of shape. If you don't think Ramo is worth a 2-rounder the so be it. But it isn't crazy to suggest that he is.

#11 DirtyDeeds

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:23 AM

How do you know he's "virtually ready for the NHL"? The KHL is a differnt league than the NHL. There's less scoring for one and they also don't go to the net like they do in the NHL.

Gustavsson had unreal numbers before coming into the NHL and hasn't shown anywhere near that level of play since coming here.

Not only this goalie but my pal was already calling for Kiprusoff's trade and the sudden recoup of picks.

Any team that wants to make the playoffs and is going to put all their eggs in three unproven goalies is taking a HUGE gamble to say the least.

Maybe Ramo works out, I'm not saying he won't. I'm saying from one trade of an obscure goalie in a different league to recouping a whole bunch of picks and having 3 unknown goalies as potential starters next season when the Flames plan to be a playoff team every season is a domino effect of a whole bunch of uncertainties in his head that magically works out perfectly.

Hey, at least you're keeping him company on his wavelength.


He never said the Kipper trade would happen. Earlier he said if Ramo turns out to be a starter. We are presently finding out if Irving is suited for fighting for that position so having one more NHL ready goaltender would be a big plus. He wouldn't be available until next year at the earliest anyway.

I can understand your fears and experience of having multiple goaltenders who are incapable of standing up to the plate Conner. Kipper is going nowhere until we know we have a proven replacement.

#12 C_worthy

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:26 AM

I take goalie numbers from foreign leagues with a grain of salt. Especially when that goalie won't come to Canada unless he gets the starters job. That said, a 2-round pick is a far thing for a sure NHL player. Let alone a starting goalie. So I am fine with Holland/2-round pick for Ramo if that makes people feel better about the Cammy trade.

Even if Ramo doesn't work out I like the Cammy/Bourque trade. We got the best player in a trade for once. Yay. But if Ramo turns out its icing on the cake for me.



A pick isn't any more of a guarantee. In fact a 2-round pick is a fair bit less. Calgary has a fair bit of forward depth in the system. However, they lack goaltender depth. Having 3-guys that could be starters gives you better odds then having 1 or 2.

Either way, no need to get bent out of shape. If you don't think Ramo is worth a 2-rounder the so be it. But it isn't crazy to suggest that he is.

I agree with that (bolded)

However, what I like about his stats is that they are improving every year.

I also agree with the sentiment that, if we get an NHL goaltender out of the deal, I would no longer be upset giving up the 2nd. I would take an NHL goalie for a 2nd any time.

And if he does make it here, then yes this trade would be a big win for the Flames.

I would do Cammy for Bourque no questions asked.

I would give up a 2nd happily if Ramo joins the team.

Holland for a 5th, well so be it.

#13 C_worthy

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:33 AM

I hope Ramo idolizes Kipper!

And I totally agree about goaltender depth in the organization - it has been far too thin. You can never have too many goalies. Between Irving and Ramo - and maybe still Karlsson if he can get some time to play in the A - there is now a greater likelihood that Kipper's replacement is in the system

#14 DirtyDeeds

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:07 AM

I hope Ramo idolizes Kipper!

And I totally agree about goaltender depth in the organization - it has been far too thin. You can never have too many goalies. Between Irving and Ramo - and maybe still Karlsson if he can get some time to play in the A - there is now a greater likelihood that Kipper's replacement is in the system


Add to that it appears to me that Ortio is maybe struggling. He has started 3 games, and played in 6 last time I looked and has a 0-3 record Just checked an he has played in 7 started 4 and is now 0-4.

Danny Taylor(I think unsigned) is getting most of the Heat starts since Irving was called up.

#15 C_worthy

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:45 AM

Add to that it appears to me that Ortio is maybe struggling. He has started 3 games, and played in 6 last time I looked and has a 0-3 record Just checked an he has played in 7 started 4 and is now 0-4.

Danny Taylor(I think unsigned) is getting most of the Heat starts since Irving was called up.

Ortio is young and adjusting to NA. I am not worried about him at this point. If he doesn't progress over the next couple years, then I would be worried about him.

Ortio is not part of the near term plans for the Flames - he is several years away. Irving has looked great, but I don't like having only one goalie prospect. You never really know with goalies, so I am very happy to acquire another legitimate goalie prospect (assuming that he in fact is)

#16 geos

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 08:40 AM

So if the deal is phrased as Bork + Holland for Cammy + 5th and Ramo for a 2nd, I'm fine. Ramo would be a high second round pick if he was in this year's draft. If we intended on drafting a goalie in the second round anyway, then Feaster just moved up the development curve.

Pretty smart if you ask me. And I think we did need to draft a goalie. Ortio is not looking like a future NHL starter by any means. Karlsson will not be a starter. So we only have, possibly, Irving.

#17 Louis23

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 08:51 AM

When Ramo played in the NHL he was bad. The odds of seeing Ramo the flames number one goalie are worse than 1/10. Irving in my opinion has much more potential. What players do in the K doesn't reflect how they do in the NHL. So many NHLers have gone to the K and became superstar when they weren't even 20 goal scorers here. And it goes the other way around too. The game is just much different.

This is why I would have never traded him for a 2nd pick or for Holland, whatever the case that was.

#18 Dmac1103

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:11 AM

When Ramo played in the NHL he was bad. The odds of seeing Ramo the flames number one goalie are worse than 1/10. Irving in my opinion has much more potential. What players do in the K doesn't reflect how they do in the NHL. So many NHLers have gone to the K and became superstar when they weren't even 20 goal scorers here. And it goes the other way around too. The game is just much different.

This is why I would have never traded him for a 2nd pick or for Holland, whatever the case that was.

Well in Romo's defense he was on a poor Tampa Bay team that made all their goalies look bad, see Mike Smith and compare his numbers from Tampa to what he is doing in Phoenix, Holland from what I have read (no offical print about it just some blogs) wanted the max Entery Level Contract or he wasn't going to sign so sort of forced Feaster's hand if it is true. The draft pick situation well sometimes you have to include those to get what you think is better for the team, what fans have to realize is that the Draft is a crap shoot and you have to trust your scouting department. That 5th rd we got could end up being a great prospect where the 2nd we gave up could never make it to the NHL and vise versa. IMHO the breakdown of this trade is we swapped a strong winger for another strong winger, the second part of it we got a NHL ready player who adds depth to a position that needed depth and a pick that may or may not become something while giving up a player who's skill may or may not transform into a everyday NHL player and a pick that may or may not become something.

#19 Louis23

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 10:11 AM

Well in Romo's defense he was on a poor Tampa Bay team that made all their goalies look bad, see Mike Smith and compare his numbers from Tampa to what he is doing in Phoenix, Holland from what I have read (no offical print about it just some blogs) wanted the max Entery Level Contract or he wasn't going to sign so sort of forced Feaster's hand if it is true. The draft pick situation well sometimes you have to include those to get what you think is better for the team, what fans have to realize is that the Draft is a crap shoot and you have to trust your scouting department. That 5th rd we got could end up being a great prospect where the 2nd we gave up could never make it to the NHL and vise versa. IMHO the breakdown of this trade is we swapped a strong winger for another strong winger, the second part of it we got a NHL ready player who adds depth to a position that needed depth and a pick that may or may not become something while giving up a player who's skill may or may not transform into a everyday NHL player and a pick that may or may not become something.


THIS. This is the mentality I want to get rid of. ''2nd rounders'' well blah, he may never turn into anything anyway. No big deal. THIS is why we lose. THIS!

#20 geos

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 10:32 AM

THIS. This is the mentality I want to get rid of. ''2nd rounders'' well blah, he may never turn into anything anyway. No big deal. THIS is why we lose. THIS!


Please tell me how many second round draft picks last year were NHL ready goalies? First round picks? Any draft picks?

When the last time an NHL goalie was picked in the second round? Go take a look. Really please do. This team needed to draft a goalie in this year's go around. In the last decade, there has not been a better goalie than Ramo picked in the second round (with the possible exception of Markstrom, but that remains to be seen).

There is nothing wrong with trading a pick for a player that is further along the curve and likely has a higher ceiling than anything you'd ever dream of taking with that pick. If we used the 2013 2nd round pick to draft a goalie, we'd be lucky to have an NHL starter (about a 5% chance) by 2020. Instead we have one that could start in a pinch TODAY.

Think about that.

This isn't a Darryl type move at all.

EDIT: There were two NHL goalies taken in the second round in the last decade, Pavelec and Markstrom. Out of 22. So you have a 1/22 chance of picking a starter and a 1/22 chance of a marginal starter. And you need to wait 5 years until he's ready at least.

We tried that before. We picked the elite Medvedev 2nd round in 2001. He turned out to be a stud for us, didn't he?