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New Arena In The Future?


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#41 Crzydrvr

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:11 PM

And I completely disagree. Why the he!! are we giving them money if it's for a new arena? If enough of us get pissed off about this, we can get Alberta to seperate. Where would Canada be then? Harper has got to draw a line in the sand and say "No. If you want money, you have to use it for more public needs."


Connor's a separatist, it's official. He's not in a very giving mood, Mr. Harper....

Unfortunately, arenas are considered a public need so....

#42 gsp393

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:19 PM

Typical western alienation. We make all the money, provide all the jobs and grow all the pot yet our opinions and best interests are held second to those of the gta. God bless the center of the universe.

#43 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:45 PM

Connor's a separatist, it's official. He's not in a very giving mood, Mr. Harper....

Unfortunately, arenas are considered a public need so....

It's always the federal government greasing Quebec. They have a lot of people hence, a lot of votes but the only thing they contribute to this country is GSP.

Typical western alienation. We make all the money, provide all the jobs and grow all the pot yet our opinions and best interests are held second to those of the gta. God bless the center of the universe.

Yeah, us, Saskatchewan and Manitoba are stuck between the centre of the universe and a high place.

#44 s4xon

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:59 PM

I didn't mean they'd take the actual design of the building but the Flames will have an idea of about how to fund the arena. It will also take a lot less deliberation from other areas of government.

I'll give you an example. McDoanlds was one of the first North American fast food chains in China. It took them years to set up the deals, taxes, menus, etc before entering China. After they entered China, they gave the other North American fast food chains the rough blue print about how to enter China and what to do and not to do after seeing what went right and wrong. Calgary's arena building process will run a lot smoother than Edmonton's because they can use Edmonton's arena as a basis point.

And I completely disagree. Why the he!! are we giving them money if it's for a new arena? If enough of us get pissed off about this, we can get Alberta to seperate. Where would Canada be then? Harper has got to draw a line in the sand and say "No. If you want money, you have to use it for more public needs."


Except both Clubs are already based in the 2 major cities in Alberta. No one is entering new markets. The same argument can be made for the Oil using the Saddle Dome project as a basis to start their Arena, but it doesn't make sense.

The rest isn't worth a response.

#45 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:33 PM

Except both Clubs are already based in the 2 major cities in Alberta. No one is entering new markets. The same argument can be made for the Oil using the Saddle Dome project as a basis to start their Arena, but it doesn't make sense.

Not even close.

The Saddldome was built in the early 80s with a much different economy. You're reaching.

#46 s4xon

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:45 PM

Not even close.

The Saddldome was built in the early 80s with a much different economy. You're reaching.

Cue the applause, Connor finally understands a useless arguement. Now if he could only apply it in parallel to what his own fingers are spewing...Tune in next time.





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#47 C_worthy

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:53 AM

nm

#48 stranger

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:59 AM

This is Alberta,Canada.The economic engine of the new world.Calgary and Edmonton both deserve world class facilities for their teams.Actually, both these buildings should set a new standard for world class.Whatever it takes get it done.This nice guy stuff is getting old.We deserve the best.!!

#49 PokernHockey

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 04:14 PM

Except both Clubs are already based in the 2 major cities in Alberta. No one is entering new markets. The same argument can be made for the Oil using the Saddle Dome project as a basis to start their Arena, but it doesn't make sense.

The rest isn't worth a response.



Not even close.

The Saddldome was built in the early 80s with a much different economy. You're reaching.




If your going to be a chicken tikka masala at least be within the realm of "could be correct". Stop trying to berate Connor just because of who he is and think for a second, he is actually on the mark on this one.
Yes, they are in different cities, and already established markets, etc. But how many arena's have been built in Alberta, or even Canada in the current economic reality.

The Dome was built primarily with government funding. Based on our "established market" you expect the same to happen this time around? Or do you want to admit Conner was right when he said it will probably be based closer to what the Oilers end up getting in the end.

His point was that what funding (or lack there of) will be used as a template by the flames. This is correct. It takes lots of time and money to put proposals to government together. Also, there is this thing called precedence.

If the Oilers get X from the city, Y from the province and Z from the Federal Government your off your rocker if you think the flames won't go into the presentation expecting the same amount of funding. On the other hand, if neither the Fed or the Province give the oilers money, they probably will not waste much time/energy/resources asking for money from those governments.

Cue the applause, Connor finally understands a useless arguement. Now if he could only apply it in parallel to what his own fingers are spewing...Tune in next time.

Let me know when we can start applauding you for recognizing USEFUL arguments.

#50 s4xon

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 04:28 PM

If your going to be a chicken tikka masala at least be within the realm of "could be correct". Stop trying to berate Connor just because of who he is and think for a second, he is actually on the mark on this one.
Yes, they are in different cities, and already established markets, etc. But how many arena's have been built in Alberta, or even Canada in the current economic reality.

The Dome was built primarily with government funding. Based on our "established market" you expect the same to happen this time around? Or do you want to admit Conner was right when he said it will probably be based closer to what the Oilers end up getting in the end.

His point was that what funding (or lack there of) will be used as a template by the flames. This is correct. It takes lots of time and money to put proposals to government together. Also, there is this thing called precedence.

If the Oilers get X from the city, Y from the province and Z from the Federal Government your off your rocker if you think the flames won't go into the presentation expecting the same amount of funding. On the other hand, if neither the Fed or the Province give the oilers money, they probably will not waste much time/energy/resources asking for money from those governments.


Let me know when we can start applauding you for recognizing USEFUL arguments.

Whether it's Connor, or it's you, its a useless arguement.

Again...


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#51 Zirakzigil

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 06:59 PM

There have been lots of talks about different sporting complexes going up at Balzac, including an arena. Personally I would be shocked if the Flames didnt build a new arena out there. The C-Train is due to be extended out there in the next 4-5 years and with Stoney Tr and Deerfoot Tr you have great car access. Plus, being outside the city taxes become less of an issue. I think Balzac or the western end of the city are the only viable options for them to pick from. Downtown is to limited as to what they could do.

#52 cross16

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:26 PM

King has been pretty steady that all the plans for the new arena are for inner city and he has expressed no desire to go outside the city. I would be shocked to see it outside the city.

King has been pretty steady that all the plans for the new arena are for inner city and he has expressed no desire to go outside the city. I would be shocked to see it outside the city.

#53 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:55 PM

Thanks PokernHockey.

Anyways, is there any preliminary plans about the sizes or costs of the new arena or stadium/arena?

#54 senor_incendiarse

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 08:01 PM

There have been lots of talks about different sporting complexes going up at Balzac, including an arena. Personally I would be shocked if the Flames didnt build a new arena out there. The C-Train is due to be extended out there in the next 4-5 years and with Stoney Tr and Deerfoot Tr you have great car access. Plus, being outside the city taxes become less of an issue. I think Balzac or the western end of the city are the only viable options for them to pick from. Downtown is to limited as to what they could do.

For me driving from Cranston to Balzac is not appealing at all, especially considering how winter driving could be. Whats even less appealing is taking a train across the city. A move out there could also kill the Hitmen. A football stadium out there might be a good idea and could work well, but the Flames/Hitmen/Roughnecks need to stay downtown.

#55 C_worthy

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 07:59 AM

There have been lots of talks about different sporting complexes going up at Balzac, including an arena. Personally I would be shocked if the Flames didnt build a new arena out there. The C-Train is due to be extended out there in the next 4-5 years and with Stoney Tr and Deerfoot Tr you have great car access. Plus, being outside the city taxes become less of an issue. I think Balzac or the western end of the city are the only viable options for them to pick from. Downtown is to limited as to what they could do.

Not a chance.

Inner city is far superior whenever possible.

Also, there is the Stampede factor, as well as the desire of the city to re-vitalize the core, including the east village and the west village.

The arena will be downtown. Ans there are several viable options.

#56 Lanny1990

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:56 PM

I think a football stadium and hockey arena could be built into one dome configuration. Of course this has never been done before but engineers could make it happen. I see it like this, you have a football stadium that has seating that moves on a rail system from the one side to create a smaller arena atmosphere. The turf would be like Arizona's(move on rails) and underneath would be a sheet of ice. So you would have part of one sideline swivel on a track and enclose the end zone area where you would have 20,000 or so seating. CFL field is 59 metres wide, nhl rink is 200ft long, can easily fit by the time you add in the sidelines. Of course the sides would have to be adjusted on rail as well to make that nice cozy arena but I think it could be done. Then you would need some sort of system in place to create the corner seating for the arena configuration

Many people will scoff at this idea but hell anything can be done with a little imagination and some decent engineering. Plus you get a huge multi use building that services many pro sports. The cost would be maybe 2/3 of what it would cost to build a new stadium and new arena separately.(if that?)

Just wild imagination or what? Let the engineers discuss......lol

#57 Zirakzigil

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 05:59 PM

Not a chance.

Inner city is far superior whenever possible.

Also, there is the Stampede factor, as well as the desire of the city to re-vitalize the core, including the east village and the west village.

The arena will be downtown. Ans there are several viable options.

There is a very good chance. There is a reason that Crossiron was built where it was. Rockyview county is much more willing to give incentives for major projects like that then the city is.

#58 thelights

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 07:38 PM

For me driving from Cranston to Balzac is not appealing at all, especially considering how winter driving could be. Whats even less appealing is taking a train across the city. A move out there could also kill the Hitmen. A football stadium out there might be a good idea and could work well, but the Flames/Hitmen/Roughnecks need to stay downtown.


Agreed. They're part of the heart of the city, keep them playing there.

#59 Crzydrvr

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:55 PM

I think a football stadium and hockey arena could be built into one dome configuration. Of course this has never been done before but engineers could make it happen. I see it like this, you have a football stadium that has seating that moves on a rail system from the one side to create a smaller arena atmosphere. The turf would be like Arizona's(move on rails) and underneath would be a sheet of ice. So you would have part of one sideline swivel on a track and enclose the end zone area where you would have 20,000 or so seating. CFL field is 59 metres wide, nhl rink is 200ft long, can easily fit by the time you add in the sidelines. Of course the sides would have to be adjusted on rail as well to make that nice cozy arena but I think it could be done. Then you would need some sort of system in place to create the corner seating for the arena configuration

Many people will scoff at this idea but hell anything can be done with a little imagination and some decent engineering. Plus you get a huge multi use building that services many pro sports. The cost would be maybe 2/3 of what it would cost to build a new stadium and new arena separately.(if that?)

Just wild imagination or what? Let the engineers discuss......lol


You overestimate engineers to heck. I have friends that are; they don't play god. The logistics of having a dual hockey/football stadium just don't match up. The effort going into repeatedly moving the astroturf and exposing the rink surface underneath just to put on more ice for the game next day could be better used elsewhere. The money saved from just creating one arena would be nullified by the expertise and manpower required to make it happen on an almost daily basis.

A hockey rink and a football arena are fundamentally different. There's a reason why the NHL only does one or two outdoor games a year.

#60 403Loyalty

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:21 PM

There have been lots of talks about different sporting complexes going up at Balzac, including an arena. Personally I would be shocked if the Flames didnt build a new arena out there. The C-Train is due to be extended out there in the next 4-5 years and with Stoney Tr and Deerfoot Tr you have great car access. Plus, being outside the city taxes become less of an issue. I think Balzac or the western end of the city are the only viable options for them to pick from. Downtown is to limited as to what they could do.


correct me if im wrong, but i believe if an arena is built outside the city taxes due decrease but also revenue and relief from the city also goes out the window since your not inside the city limits. If your looking for any funding you need to stay within your means of the city. If anything i think it will be built out by COP if its not inside the inner city.