39 replies to this topic

[BobbyB12]

NHL Player Lockout Tracker

According to @StevenEllisNHL he's reporting all the players signing overseas.
I dont always believe Twitter but if hes legit then its a good tracker!

Mikael Backlund Calgary Flames Västerås
Roman Cervenka Calgary Flames HC Slavia Praha
Jiri Hudler Calgary Flames HC Lev Praha

[C_worthy]

I love how the players claim all-for-one-and-one-for-all and then they turn around and take someone else's job (someone far less privileged).

[oldschool17]

I love how the players claim all-for-one-and-one-for-all and then they turn around and take someone else's job (someone far less privileged).

C-worthy, you know I have great respect for you, and I find myself landing on the same page as you on a lot of topics. In this case it seems to be the players can't win for losing in this scenario unless they play hockey for the same amount as the avg person makes?

You could argue the NHL has the best players in the world and if that league is unavailable then they play in the next best thing. It's capitalism. The league forced the play stoppage( yes I understand why) so the players are making the best of the situation. People want to watch best players play, and if they aren't good enough than that's how every other job in north America and nost of Europe is supposed to work. Why are the players villains for this? Personally I think this whole situation is ridiculous, and stupidity on both sides has done nothing but exacerbated the whole thing.

[C_worthy]

C-worthy, you know I have great respect for you, and I find myself landing on the same page as you on a lot of topics. In this case it seems to be the players can't win for losing in this scenario unless they play hockey for the same amount as the avg person makes?

You could argue the NHL has the best players in the world and if that league is unavailable then they play in the next best thing. It's capitalism. The league forced the play stoppage( yes I understand why) so the players are making the best of the situation. People want to watch best players play, and if they aren't good enough than that's how every other job in north America and nost of Europe is supposed to work. Why are the players villains for this? Personally I think this whole situation is ridiculous, and stupidity on both sides has done nothing but exacerbated the whole thing.

Thanks oldschool.

It's not so much that I think what they are doing is wrong, it's that I think they are being hypocritical with all the poor us, solidarity rhetoric, and then running off and taking someone else's job.

I see them asking the teams to share revenues but they want to maintain the loopholes that allow a few players to take home the vast majority of the salary pie.

That's all - it's the hypocritical comments that I was referring to.

And to be clear, I don't mind the Mikael Backlunds of the league going back home and playing. I don't mind the Tim Jackmans of the league trying to find a place to play.

What offends me is the Crosbys and Iginlas and Cammalleris, who are making multi-millions, turn around and take the job of some guy who is never going to get a chance to play in the NHL, who is never going to make anything close to $1M per year to play hockey. That's what I was referring to.

[Flyerfan52]

The KHL has a rule that the replacement players can be paid to a maximum of 65% of their NHL contract.
The players are willing to play for 2/3 of the money in a league that's less safety concious (no ambulance of defibulator available for Cherepanov, the flight accomodations for Lokomotiv) while self insuring & bumping other players off the team.
Yet they'd cry bloody murder if the NHL brought in replacement players (possibly including some whose jobs they took).

The NA players being accepted are largely the big contract guys (they accept Euros that are lesser stars in hope they'll stay) keeping the $s flowing (even @ a reduced rate) while the majority sit @ home without paychecks.

It seems they're working under a double standard.
________________________________________________
I hold the hope the majority will see this rather then continuing to blindly follow Fehr (some writers refer to him as The Don .It made me laugh because of the immediate association with our sometimes/usually respected troll. ).

[oldschool17]

Thanks oldschool.

It's not so much that I think what they are doing is wrong, it's that I think they are being hypocritical with all the poor us, solidarity rhetoric, and then running off and taking someone else's job.

I see them asking the teams to share revenues but they want to maintain the loopholes that allow a few players to take home the vast majority of the salary pie.

That's all - it's the hypocritical comments that I was referring to.

And to be clear, I don't mind the Mikael Backlunds going back home and playing. What offends me is the Crosbys and Iginlas and Cammalleris, who are making multi-millions, turn around and take the job of some guy who is never going to get a chance to play in the NHL, who is never going to make anything close to $1M per year to paly hockey. That's what I was referring to.

Tbh I agree fully! Completely.
Where I see it as both sides made it impossible to make a season happen, everyone is losing, fans, owners, team staff, supplemental employees, everyone.
Both the the owner sand the players are being extraordinarilly hypocritical. No one wins here. Adn it's a joke.
I think they should all be focusing on getting a CBA done than leaving the country altogether.
Although it could be argued that it's great for the players respective teams that they keep playing, in practice at a competitor level.

[echoison]

I have stopped listening to all the CBA talk, I look at the headlines hoping to see the heading 'They're Back' but until then I could care less what goes on. Nothing I can do but wait. That is unless Fehr or Bettman call me up and ask for my opinion. I just think it is a waste of time and energy thinking about all of it.

[Carty]

The KHL has a rule that the replacement players can be paid to a maximum of 65% of their NHL contract.

The other stipulations include a maximum of 3 players from the NHL per team, and only 1 can be non-Russian...

I hold the hope the majority will see this rather then continuing to blindly follow Fehr(some writers refer to him as The Don .It made me laugh because of the immediate association with our sometimes/usually respected troll. ).

I knew this lockout was somehow all his fault...

[conundrumed]

I have to question the solidarity of, "I'll just go elsewhere".
Undoubtedly, they know something that we don't, or Fehr wants everyone to believe that they do.

[Flyerfan52]

This going overseas provides Bettman & the owners with many justifiable terms to put in their next offer (all subject to negotiation of course) if they decide to play hardball.
1) If the stars are willing to play for 35% less that's the amount salaries are rolled back.
2) Self insurance? Eliminate LTIR (or even IR) but maintain rights to the player. No sense carrying those that might not play again until the contract ends. Let them cover the cost of insurance on big salaries.
3) Ambulance & doctor costs can be borne by the players. As we've seen those aren't consider neccessary in the KHL.
4) No need for NTC/NMC contracts if the players seem to think it's fine to play elsewhere. Those can all be voided leaving trades to the discretion of the team.
5) No need for top hotels or chartered planes as the stars don't see value in that. If you want to upgrade from tourist to 1st class on a commercial flight feel free (@ least NA planes undergo regular inspections). It's your money. Don't like the fleabag hotel you can stay elsewhere but don't be late for practice.
6) Team meals are the blue plate special (rubber chicken, stringbeans & something resembling a potato/rice or pasta [yeah, I've been to association meetings, fundraisers & the like]). Again, feel free to order something you prefer. It's your money.
6) Players can be released @ any time without compensation. If you can take a job from a Russian, Swede or anyone else in Europe on short notice because you're a better player then any time there's a better altenative the team should be allowed to upgrade same as the leagues the players went to.

The players would mess their pants @ this starting point but it's something the names have already agreed to by going overseas.
_________________________________________
That's partially in jest but every point is defensible if NHL ownership took this route. & the players opened the door.

[C_worthy]

nice, FF... +1

[geos]

Mikael Backlund Calgary Flames Västerås

Might be good for the kid to play at home, build some confidence. Though perhaps its foreshadowing something if he doesn't get his game going here...

It's not so much that I think what they are doing is wrong, it's that I think they are being hypocritical with all the poor us, solidarity rhetoric, and then running off and taking someone else's job.

There is no real solidarity. Just a bunch of rich, spoiled kids that never have had to really work before. Do you really think they care about the people they displace over there? Probably not for a second, even though they'll pretend to be sad on the news and on Twitter.

What offends me is the Crosbys and Iginlas and Cammalleris, who are making multi-millions, turn around and take the job of some guy who is never going to get a chance to play in the NHL, who is never going to make anything close to $1M per year to play hockey. That's what I was referring to.

To be fair, Iginla has never done that, nor did Squid. Iginla has actually said he won't do that. Squid played in the AHL last lockout as well, as he was assigned there by the Kings. Not all players do it. Not all are so self-absorbed that they could possibly stomach that. Crosby sounds pretty much ready to go cash in in Russia.

I agree the marginal NHL'ers are in a different camp (who knows, many might end up over there anyway).

That's partially in jest but every point is defensible if NHL ownership took this route. & the players opened the door.

Shouldn't be in jest. I forget which player it was, but someone suggested that the league should find savings in areas other than player contracts. The first things that came to mind was economy class flights and a stay in the Travelodge.

[C_worthy]

To be fair, Iginla has never done that, nor did Squid. Iginla has actually said he won't do that. Squid played in the AHL last lockout as well, as he was assigned there by the Kings. Not all players do it. Not all are so self-absorbed that they could possibly stomach that. Crosby sounds pretty much ready to go cash in in Russia.

I agree the marginal NHL'ers are in a different camp (who knows, many might end up over there anyway).

You're right - I was just listing guys with big tickets, but that is true about Iginla. So let's go with: guys lke Thorton and Nash (and possibly Crosby)

[conundrumed]

This going overseas provides Bettman & the owners with many justifiable terms to put in their next offer (all subject to negotiation of course) if they decide to play hardball.
1) If the stars are willing to play for 35% less that's the amount salaries are rolled back.
2) Self insurance? Eliminate LTIR (or even IR) but maintain rights to the player. No sense carrying those that might not play again until the contract ends. Let them cover the cost of insurance on big salaries.
3) Ambulance & doctor costs can be borne by the players. As we've seen those aren't consider neccessary in the KHL.
4) No need for NTC/NMC contracts if the players seem to think it's fine to play elsewhere. Those can all be voided leaving trades to the discretion of the team.
5) No need for top hotels or chartered planes as the stars don't see value in that. If you want to upgrade from tourist to 1st class on a commercial flight feel free (@ least NA planes undergo regular inspections). It's your money. Don't like the fleabag hotel you can stay elsewhere but don't be late for practice.
6) Team meals are the blue plate special (rubber chicken, stringbeans & something resembling a potato/rice or pasta [yeah, I've been to association meetings, fundraisers & the like]). Again, feel free to order something you prefer. It's your money.
6) Players can be released @ any time without compensation. If you can take a job from a Russian, Swede or anyone else in Europe on short notice because you're a better player then any time there's a better altenative the team should be allowed to upgrade same as the leagues the players went to.

The players would mess their pants @ this starting point but it's something the names have already agreed to by going overseas.
_________________________________________
That's partially in jest but every point is defensible if NHL ownership took this route. & the players opened the door.

At the least, the owners should highlight this.
"Your players don't support your (PA) stance to the point that they'll take far less in money and support to play elsewhere".
Because at the end of the day, that's how this washes.
If the players were passionate about their union's stance, it would be exactly the Thornton's and Nash's that need to stand in the forefront and tell us, the fans, they are holding out hope and being involved in a conclusion.
Not just shrugging and heading to Europe.
The league has afforded them great lifestyles, yet they leave at the drop of a hat...

This again helps to highlight the lack of urgency from ALL involved.
Somehow all of hockey's recent progress can afford this?
The NBC deal was a meager one, good start building on it...

[ifiwaschucknorris]

Some of these guys got jobs awfully quick. It's almost as if.....they knew the lockout was coming

[UKFlamer]

It would be good to see some players over here in the UK again. Last time round we saw Theo Fluery, Eric Cairns, Scott Nicholl, Wade Belak and some others. The fans certainly want to see those type of players here and from what I understand the players were pleased with it as well, though there is a long standing issue with using imports and keeping British players out of the top teams. However, they refuse to address the standard of british players through the junior program so they only have themselves to blame.

Sadly, some of the players, particularly Theo (who was an easy target), were treated very badly by the fans and got a bit of a bad reputation.

[gsp393]

theres no question all these players running off is hypocritical and that there loss of salary between the ones not playing and the ones taking discounts in european leagues negates any salary gains they might get out of the cba but, it seems as though they feel as if they're making a stand for the future players "to be screwed by the owners" as they seem to feel they have been. I also think old donnie might have more pride then brains and is more interested in making a name for himself then truely helping the players.

[C_worthy]

theres no question all these players running off is hypocritical and that there loss of salary between the ones not playing and the ones taking discounts in european leagues negates any salary gains they might get out of the cba but, it seems as though they feel as if they're making a stand for the future players "to be screwed by the owners" as they seem to feel they have been. I also think old donnie might have more pride then brains and is more interested in making a name for himself then truely helping the players.

That is the problem, IMO

The argument that the players keep presenting that, if they give the owners what they want this time, 'they'll just threaten us for more next time' is a total red herring.

If the players sat down at the table and agreed to something in the 50-50 range, there is simply no way that in 6 years the league could threaten them with another lockout, unless economic conditions changed very, very drastically.

I think most fans agreed with the owners in 04 and wanted a cap. The owners got their cap, along with 43% of the revenues. While this was an improvement and the league got healthier and grew substantially, many agree that a little more help is needed (50-50). However, no where near as many fans still support the owners - it's probably pretty evenly split (which in itself suggests that things are approaching fairness).

If the owners get 50-50 this time, I believe most fans would feel that things were pretty fair now and would have very little tolerance for the owners to take a hard stance again next time.

[UKFlamer]

If the owners get 50-50 this time, I believe most fans would feel that things were pretty fair now and would have very little tolerance for the owners to take a hard stance again next time.

What's the point in a 50-50 split if the owners need more than 50% to keep a club functional? Players are earning too much, its that simple, and it's the highest earning players that are causing the problem for everyone.

Just looking at some figures. Beteen 1999 and 2009, players salaries in total across the NHL exceeded 11 billion dollars.

[Zirakzigil]

and it's the highest earning players that are causing the problem for everyone.

Not really true. The problem is now there is no RFA second contract and that #3-4 defensemen as well as second line fowards are being paid stupid amounts. Look at Lucic, no way in hell he is worth 6mil a year. There is so much "paying for potental" and not enough paying for actually output right now in the league.