s4xon

Johnny 'Hockey' Gaudreau

   16 members have voted

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  1. 1. How many points will Johnny Hockey score in his sophomore season?

    • 40-50
      1
    • 50-60
      0
    • 60-70
      2
    • 70-80
      7
    • 80-90
      4
    • 90-100
      1
    • 100+
      1

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2,430 posts in this topic

Schultz was a special case in that he was able to become a free agent after three seasons due to playing a year of junior. Normally this isn't that big of a deal because the best players rarely play four years of college.

The problem isn't unique to college players. As we saw with Erixon. There has to be some way for players to sign somewhere other than with the team that drafted them. Otherwise they would have no options if that team chose not to sign him.

That said, I agree with the principal that the drafting team should have first rights to the ELC. Situations like Erixon, Knight, Schultz, etc should not happen.

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Having his mother come out and say that publicly scares me..as well as his wishy washy answer which included indication hes considering staying.Now inside sources claiming hed rather stay out east..I know Burke is on record as saying he wont roundtell a kid to leave school, but ive said before and will again....I want him to sign after this season, and I think he will..but if hes not signed by draft day,you HAVE to trade him..hes a good enough prospect you could likely have discussions with Buffalo over one of their first rounders.

Not signing him and having to trade him wont be failure on Burkes part...gambling on him signing after next season and losing him will.

As for how you fix this, its really easy but I doubt youll ever see it.

Qualifying offers..just like RFA's. You draft a kid, you have 2 years to make him a qualifying offer, if you dont, he goes back in the draft. If you do, you own his rights and it costs teams a first rounder to sign your guy if he was a 3rd round or later pick, 2 firsts for a mid to low first or second round pick, and 3 firsts for a top 10 pick

For college kids, their 2 years starts from the day they leave school. Just like now, they can sign anytime but if you just use Johnny as an example, he wants to go back and finish school? Great..do it..get your education..but when you are done we own your rights for 2 years after that.

I think everybody wins, kids arent being pressured to give up their educations, teams protect their assets, and the Schultz's and Erixon's of the world either rot in purgatory or suck it up and sign with the teams that drafted them and be pros

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Having his mother come out and say that publicly scares me..as well as his wishy washy answer which included indication hes considering staying.Now inside sources claiming hed rather stay out east..I know Burke is on record as saying he wont roundtell a kid to leave school, but ive said before and will again....I want him to sign after this season, and I think he will..but if hes not signed by draft day,you HAVE to trade him..hes a good enough prospect you could likely have discussions with Buffalo over one of their first rounders.

Not signing him and having to trade him wont be failure on Burkes part...gambling on him signing after next season and losing him will.

 

The bolded part above shows a willingness to jump to conclusions...

  • the NY Times article with his mom was something written by a columnist who needed a JG story with a fresh angle.  Johnny didn't set his mother up as his spokesperson, she gave a "mother's love" interview.  Many have said something along the lines of "what would you expect a mother to say?  She only wants what's best for her son in the long run".  As a parent myself, I've always told my kids that education is the most important thing.
  • Johnny's "wishy washy answers" are simply not "wishy washy".  Would you want to cause new undue turmoil and chaos in your team (and immediate surrounding people) moments before starting a playoff-esque tournament?  He's been consistent with his answers ever since people started to ask him what he'll be doing and when.  I can't fault the kid for sticking to his guns ("I'll know better what I'm doing once this season is over"), so why get on his case now?  His season isn't over, so he doesn't have anything to say to anyone about it.
  • The "inside sources" you are referring to is a RUMOUR that tmac posted (he very clearly identified it as a rumour, too).  Now, tmac's a pretty decent guy...usually respectful, has some pretty decently-stated opinions....I like the guy.  However, I am not going to put too much stock into his "I heard it from a friend" story, simply because I don't know tmac beyond these boards.  I have no idea what he does in real-life, no idea if he enjoys stirring up excitement in this fashion just to get his kicks, etc, etc.  I simply cannot put much (if any) emotional reaction to a clearly-identified rumour...you lose any semblance of rational, logical thinking if you do.

 

TL;DR version: relax...have some dip.  Don't get wound up over things without substance.

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**Editted for long post**

Agree wholeheartedly, lurking around other forum boards regarding this issue, it's crazy how much extreme reactions there are to these rumors. But I guess it's what the forums are for hahah.

For myself I have metered expectations and will wait for JG's decision patiently. As much as I'd like him to sign at the end of the season, if he chooses to stay for another year I'm not going to fault him for it. I also don't think trading him if he doesn't sign this year is right but that's of my own opinion. I think for too long the Flames have tried to take the safe choice and some risks are worth making. For someone like JG I'm willing to take the risk of him not panning out for us just because we are starting to build a decent prospect base.

I think trading him now would be too much of a knee jerk reaction for my liking. Ill remain cautiously optimistic and continue with the voodoo magic and hope that we see him with the red flaming C within the next year or 2. Make us proud Johnny G.!

#JohnnyHB2014

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The bolded part above shows a willingness to jump to conclusions...

  • the NY Times article with his mom was something written by a columnist who needed a JG story with a fresh angle.  Johnny didn't set his mother up as his spokesperson, she gave a "mother's love" interview.  Many have said something along the lines of "what would you expect a mother to say?  She only wants what's best for her son in the long run".  As a parent myself, I've always told my kids that education is the most important thing.
  • Johnny's "wishy washy answers" are simply not "wishy washy".  Would you want to cause new undue turmoil and chaos in your team (and immediate surrounding people) moments before starting a playoff-esque tournament?  He's been consistent with his answers ever since people started to ask him what he'll be doing and when.  I can't fault the kid for sticking to his guns ("I'll know better what I'm doing once this season is over"), so why get on his case now?  His season isn't over, so he doesn't have anything to say to anyone about it.
  • The "inside sources" you are referring to is a RUMOUR that tmac posted (he very clearly identified it as a rumour, too).  Now, tmac's a pretty decent guy...usually respectful, has some pretty decently-stated opinions....I like the guy.  However, I am not going to put too much stock into his "I heard it from a friend" story, simply because I don't know tmac beyond these boards.  I have no idea what he does in real-life, no idea if he enjoys stirring up excitement in this fashion just to get his kicks, etc, etc.  I simply cannot put much (if any) emotional reaction to a clearly-identified rumour...you lose any semblance of rational, logical thinking if you do.

 

TL;DR version: relax...have some dip.  Don't get wound up over things without substance.

 I am not offended if no one take what I say as truthful or not, as Kulstad stated I am just a guy behind a keyboard. In my profession I meet celebrities, NHL players, scouts retired and current, prospects fairly frequently. Does that make me a reliable source, hell no. Occasionally, I hear comments and topics about the Flames, do I post them all NOPE.. Until recently they were not very positive any way.  

 

I will agree that until pen goes to paper with this kid, there shouldn't be any hype. Irrelevant of where the information comes from it is rumor unless you hear it directly from the individual themselves. Presently, JH has said all the politely correct answers, no different than Cammi when being asked if he is going to resign. 

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Put yourself in Johnny Gaudreau's skates for a minute.  If you were given two choices:

 

1. Ride the pine for one year in Abbotsford and then play for the Calgary Flames after that.

2. Play one more year in college and then play for whoever you want to.

 

Which one would you choose?

 

I think the answer is simple and the Flames have absolutely no choice but to sign him immediately after the Frozen Four is over and forfeit one year of his contract AND most importantly, "gaurantee" he plays with the Flames next season. Gaurantee.  There will be no Abbotsford with Gaudreau because he has a choice to go to college for one more year.  So therefore, it's the Flames who have no choice.  The Flames have to gaurantee he's in the NHL next season or trade him asap. End of story.

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Put yourself in Johnny Gaudreau's skates for a minute.  If you were given two choices:

 

1. Ride the pine for one year in Abbotsford and then play for the Calgary Flames after that.

2. Play one more year in college and then play for whoever you want to.

 

Which one would you choose?

 

I think the answer is simple and the Flames have absolutely no choice but to sign him immediately after the Frozen Four is over and forfeit one year of his contract AND most importantly, "gaurantee" he plays with the Flames next season. Gaurantee.  There will be no Abbotsford with Gaudreau because he has a choice to go to college for one more year.  So therefore, it's the Flames who have no choice.  The Flames have to gaurantee he's in the NHL next season or trade him asap. End of story.

 

If I was in Gaudreau's shoes I would want to do what is best for my long term development to support a long and successful hockey career.  From what I have heard of Gaudreau he is the same.  Putting yourself in a position to have your development forced isn't in his best wishes.  

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If I was in Gaudreau's shoes I would want to do what is best for my long term development to support a long and successful hockey career.  From what I have heard of Gaudreau he is the same.  Putting yourself in a position to have your development forced isn't in his best wishes.  

 

Jonny has said from development camp he'll decide after the season, Listening to & reading his interviews he truly seems a genuinely stand up kid. His biggest concern has always been becoming a better player.

 

I wish they would change this rule so the drama would go away! If your lucky enough to be drafted to an NHL team you should be required to play for that team or sit at home until they trade you. The teams invest time, training & money in these players it should never be allowed for these player to turn around and slap the Team & fans in the face.

 

Personally like a lot of others out there I've invested hours of screen time googling, researching & voting for the kid, I will be choked if I'm wrong & he sign elsewhere lol. 

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A very small % of players entering the NHL have a choice in where they want to play. JG has that choice and we are all expecting him to do whats right by the flames. JG take this opportunity given you (that no other " superstar" was allowed) and play for the team you want to play for.

That being said if you do you will make history and the next CBA will change and close this loop-hole.

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The bolded part above shows a willingness to jump to conclusions...

  • the NY Times article with his mom was something written by a columnist who needed a JG story with a fresh angle.  Johnny didn't set his mother up as his spokesperson, she gave a "mother's love" interview.  Many have said something along the lines of "what would you expect a mother to say?  She only wants what's best for her son in the long run".  As a parent myself, I've always told my kids that education is the most important thing.
  • Johnny's "wishy washy answers" are simply not "wishy washy".  Would you want to cause new undue turmoil and chaos in your team (and immediate surrounding people) moments before starting a playoff-esque tournament?  He's been consistent with his answers ever since people started to ask him what he'll be doing and when.  I can't fault the kid for sticking to his guns ("I'll know better what I'm doing once this season is over"), so why get on his case now?  His season isn't over, so he doesn't have anything to say to anyone about it.
  • The "inside sources" you are referring to is a RUMOUR that tmac posted (he very clearly identified it as a rumour, too).  Now, tmac's a pretty decent guy...usually respectful, has some pretty decently-stated opinions....I like the guy.  However, I am not going to put too much stock into his "I heard it from a friend" story, simply because I don't know tmac beyond these boards.  I have no idea what he does in real-life, no idea if he enjoys stirring up excitement in this fashion just to get his kicks, etc, etc.  I simply cannot put much (if any) emotional reaction to a clearly-identified rumour...you lose any semblance of rational, logical thinking if you do.
 

TL;DR version: relax...have some dip.  Don't get wound up over things without substance.

And I fully agree with what you wrote, but the end point remains the same.. get through his season, take his time and make up his mind, but uf hes not signed by draft day, hes gotta be dealt. If he decides to go back for any reason, hes gotta be dealt.

His value will never be higher than the day before he announces hes going back for his final year.

It was mentioned earlier, dont underestimate the power of Mom. His mom basically is his agent. We cant sit down and talk to him without mom in the room. Yes, that is "what a mom would say" but it also gave you a glimpse into what goes on ...he went back this year to play with his brother...now mom is basically saying "do it for your mother"..

Im not saying trade him now because of any of this, im saying dont go into next season, or past the draft with a pending UFA on your hands.

If he goes back, and we wait for him to "do the right thing" after, I will go on record as guaranteeing he will never play for us.

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It's still a crazy notion IMHO to say he's not going to sign if he doesn't this year. Why aren't more teams trading their 3rd year college prospects? How many players have snubbed their draft teams? From my knowledge that I've heard from other posters here there have been 4, all of which have been special situations (not sure about the Erixon fiasco).

I understand where you're coming from but in any of these potential situations, I think it's in our best interest to be patient even if it's for another year. Unless we get offered something spectacular I think it's better to hold the faith. Grand scheme of things I hope were all right and he signs this year hahah :)

 

*Update*  JG has another point this game and the score is 1-1 against UMass Lowell, just tried headbutting the puck into their goal :lol:

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It's still a crazy notion IMHO to say he's not going to sign if he doesn't this year. Why aren't more teams trading their 3rd year college prospects? How many players have snubbed their draft teams? From my knowledge that I've heard from other posters here there have been 4, all of which have been special situations (not sure about the Erixon fiasco).

 

They've all had the same special situation though....they were good enough that they could have their pick of NHL teams.

 

I understand where you're coming from but in any of these potential situations, I think it's in our best interest to be patient even if it's for another year.

 

I don't think the Flames can afford to take the risk.   He is too good.  I would expect him to sign or be traded this year.

 

Unless we get offered something spectacular I think it's better to hold the faith. Grand scheme of things I hope were all right and he signs this year hahah :)

 

*Update*  JG has another point this game and the score is 1-1 against UMass Lowell, just tried headbutting the puck into their goal :lol:

 

Sweet

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They've all had the same special situation though....they were good enough that they could have their pick of NHL teams.

 

 

I don't think the Flames can afford to take the risk.   He is too good.  I would expect him to sign or be traded this year.

 

 

Sweet

Would JG really have his pick of team though? Say he goes to his senior year and doesn't want to sign, we have til Aug. 15 to trade his rights and at that point it'd be whoever gives us the best return correct? So I can't see how it would do him any good to hold out? I'm probably missing something some clarity would be great as to what would be appealing to holding out unless you're guaranteed being a UFA.

I thought that's what happened with Erixon was we ended up with assets and he signed to the Rangers.

But I guess one way or another we'll end up with very decent assets so here's hoping for the best!

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Well the kid had a couple more points and is now off to the Frozen 4 finals. Wish them the best.

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Put yourself in Johnny Gaudreau's skates for a minute.  If you were given two choices:

 

1. Ride the pine for one year in Abbotsford and then play for the Calgary Flames after that.

2. Play one more year in college and then play for whoever you want to.

 

Which one would you choose?

 

I think the answer is simple and the Flames have absolutely no choice but to sign him immediately after the Frozen Four is over and forfeit one year of his contract AND most importantly, "gaurantee" he plays with the Flames next season. Gaurantee.  There will be no Abbotsford with Gaudreau because he has a choice to go to college for one more year.  So therefore, it's the Flames who have no choice.  The Flames have to gaurantee he's in the NHL next season or trade him asap. End of story.

1) I doubt he'd be riding the pine in Abby. Sven isn't & as another golden boy he'd be given every opportunity to play game situations while playing against men that hit a lot more then in college & getting used too a season almost twice as long as what he gets in college.

2) Play for whoever you want. Have you ever seen a media/fan site with anyone urging their team to trade for his rights. Outside of this board I've never seen his name come up. Even if his agent told him he was this superhot commodity said agent would be lying so 3 years of college should have given him a more realistic view.

Trouba was a 1st rounder that makes a maximum of $2.0925 million the best year of his EL.

Sean Couturier was another 1st rounder that carried a 0.925 hit (1.375 if bonuses made for salary).

A 5'8" LW selected in the 4th round doesn't carry the same value. If he expects a bidding war he'll be sadly disappointed.

 

Matt Read got a 0.9 contract that was 1 way (the reason he picked the Flyers).

I think much of your worries are caused by the Justin Schultz situation where he saw getting lots of time on a team with little @ defense as a key to the diamond mine. He got the maxium EL but the rest of his plan didn't work out that great. Erixon was a 23 overall who is still in the AHL while we have Horak, Granlund & Wotherspoon.

 

If a team asks for him as part of a decent trade do it.

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Part of a larger discussion....

 

IMHO, we shouldn't even need to have this debate.

 

Most of the other major sports draft the Majority of players out of College.

 

Definitely a thread of its own.  But the fact that we're all arguing about this just shows us that the current draft system could use improvement.

 

The only reason 18 year olds are even drafted goes back to competition between the NHL and the WHA.

 

Surely there is a better way to address that now.

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I wish they would change this rule so the drama would go away! If your lucky enough to be drafted to an NHL team you should be required to play for that team or sit at home until they trade you. The teams invest time, training & money in these players it should never be allowed for these player to turn around and slap the Team & fans in the face.

 

Um, the Flames have invested no time, no training, and no money on Johnny Gaudreau whatsoever.

 

The only ones who have invested anything is the fans who chose to fall in love with a prospect who isn't contractually a Calgary Flames.  I want to be excited about Gaudreau but i've never considered him a Flames.  Not until he signs.  I really want to be excited about Gaudreau  but I just can't.

 

 

1) I doubt he'd be riding the pine in Abby. Sven isn't & as another golden boy he'd be given every opportunity to play game situations while playing against men that hit a lot more then in college & getting used too a season almost twice as long as what he gets in college.

2) Play for whoever you want. Have you ever seen a media/fan site with anyone urging their team to trade for his rights. Outside of this board I've never seen his name come up. Even if his agent told him he was this superhot commodity said agent would be lying so 3 years of college should have given him a more realistic view.

Trouba was a 1st rounder that makes a maximum of $2.0925 million the best year of his EL.

Sean Couturier was another 1st rounder that carried a 0.925 hit (1.375 if bonuses made for salary).

A 5'8" LW selected in the 4th round doesn't carry the same value. If he expects a bidding war he'll be sadly disappointed.

 

Matt Read got a 0.9 contract that was 1 way (the reason he picked the Flyers).

I think much of your worries are caused by the Justin Schultz situation where he saw getting lots of time on a team with little @ defense as a key to the diamond mine. He got the maxium EL but the rest of his plan didn't work out that great. Erixon was a 23 overall who is still in the AHL while we have Horak, Granlund & Wotherspoon.

 

If a team asks for him as part of a decent trade do it.

 

1. Abbotsford travels more than any AHL team in the entire league and from all accounts, it's not what he wants. 

 

2. I'm refering to a Justin Schultz situation.  Gaudreau can go sign with any team who is interested because he's a free agent in the summer of 2015.  He is hot enough commodity that at least a few teams in the East would make it worthwhile for him to stay in the East.  It doesn't take an entire league to be interested for him to jump ship.

 

All in all, if Gaudreau doesn't sign soon, we should trade him.  We can't take that chance and lose him for nothing.

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Um, the Flames have invested no time, no training, and no money on Johnny Gaudreau whatsoever.

Um? No time, No training, and No money

 

I wasn't aware Development camps were not considered training & that that they run for free? Who pays the Flames Staff for their time? Facility costs, Coaches, trainers, medical & dome staff, room & board? The Staff & costs go on & on just for one event. Not to mention Teams spend time & money all year long scouting & keeping up to date profiles on all their prospects. Just because most of it is done as a group doesn't discount the Time & money invested in each of these prospects. 

 

The players have to get to Calgary on their dime after that the Flames are flipping the bill.

 

The only ones who have invested anything is the fans who chose to fall in love with a prospect who isn't contractually a Calgary Flames.  I want to be excited about Gaudreau but i've never considered him a Flames.  Not until he signs.  I really want to be excited about Gaudreau  but I just can't.

To me emotion is a huge part of being a fan, be it positive or negitive it's why I love Hockey! 

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Um? No time, No training, and No money

 

I wasn't aware Development camps were not considered training & that that they run for free? Who pays the Flames Staff for their time? Facility costs, Coaches, trainers, medical & dome staff, room & board? The Staff & costs go on & on just for one event. Not to mention Teams spend time & money all year long scouting & keeping up to date profiles on all their prospects. Just because most of it is done as a group doesn't discount the Time & money invested in each of these prospects. 

 

The players have to get to Calgary on their dime after that the Flames are flipping the bill.

 

Fair points.  The Flames don't pour money specifically into Gaudreau's development but they do spend a small portion of their total budget to keep an eye on his progress.  I'm not a fan of the college route and i hope they change that in the next CBA.  Teams are exposed almost as worst as drafting Russian kids who later decide to play in the KHL instead of the NHL.

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Fair points.  The Flames don't pour money specifically into Gaudreau's development but they do spend a small portion of their total budget to keep an eye on his progress.  I'm not a fan of the college route and i hope they change that in the next CBA.  Teams are exposed almost as worst as drafting Russian kids who later decide to play in the KHL instead of the NHL.

Totally in agreement! System is very flawed!

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Players drafted from Canadian junior programs don't have to sign with the team that drafted them, they are free to decide to not sign and re-enter the draft if they don't sign 2 years after being drafted.

The college route for late round picks is a good way to go as you have 4 years to decide on a player and watch them develop as opposed to 2 with Major Junior.

Players drafted from Canadian junior programs don't have to sign with the team that drafted them, they are free to decide to not sign and re-enter the draft if they don't sign 2 years after being drafted.

The college route for late round picks is a good way to go as you have 4 years to decide on a player and watch them develop as opposed to 2 with Major Junior.

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Re-entering the draft is a far cry from being able to pick where you go.

I believe if your drafted to a team you should have to play your ELC with that team or request a trade then at least the team isn't losing an asset...period.

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I agree the system is flawed, with the European and College players. Hypothetically, if Johnny G doesn't sign here you can also trade his rights to say Phoenix or the Islanders. The situation would be now their concern. 

 

Not sure what you get for a non proven undersized prospect, although he has potential. 

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Players drafted from Canadian junior programs don't have to sign with the team that drafted them, they are free to decide to not sign and re-enter the draft if they don't sign 2 years after being drafted.

The college route for late round picks is a good way to go as you have 4 years to decide on a player and watch them develop as opposed to 2 with Major Junior.

Players drafted from Canadian junior programs don't have to sign with the team that drafted them, they are free to decide to not sign and re-enter the draft if they don't sign 2 years after being drafted.

The college route for late round picks is a good way to go as you have 4 years to decide on a player and watch them develop as opposed to 2 with Major Junior.

 

It's such a low percentage of CHLers that go the route that you're implying, it's hardly worth your breath to imply that it's a problem.

Before the 4 years are up on your college prospect, you may have already reached conclusion on your CHLer.

That's the benefit. Your conclusion may turn out be wrong, but you have adequate time to ascertain that. It's not 2 years of a CHLer, it's four by the time you finally get your hands on the college player for his 1st yr evaluation.

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Um? No time, No training, and No money

 

I wasn't aware Development camps were not considered training & that that they run for free? Who pays the Flames Staff for their time? Facility costs, Coaches, trainers, medical & dome staff, room & board? The Staff & costs go on & on just for one event. Not to mention Teams spend time & money all year long scouting & keeping up to date profiles on all their prospects. Just because most of it is done as a group doesn't discount the Time & money invested in each of these prospects.

 

That's splitting hairs in the big picture.

You don't have your hands on that prospect throughout the season, he's out of your reach to do whatever the heck he chooses.

That's the problem.

Rights, not ownership.

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