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Johnny 'Hockey' Gaudreau

  

16 members have voted

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  1. 1. How many points will Johnny Hockey score in his sophomore season?

    • 40-50
      1
    • 50-60
      0
    • 60-70
      2
    • 70-80
      7
    • 80-90
      4
    • 90-100
      1
    • 100+
      1


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Agree 100%.  And I highly recommend for people to watch the video I posted just before this.

 

Burke is adamant that they will take their time with JH.  Burke believes in him as does Treliving but they want to make sure he can play at this level without getting creamed.  You know teams will focus on him if he stays with the Flames.  JH is a very talented player, of this there is no doubt, but he is (in Burke's words) tiny and I think will take some time before seeing any full time action in Calgary.  He needs to season in the AHL in my opinion and I would not be sad to see him start the year there.

 

I'm on board 100%

 

There is nothing saying he can';t come up later in the season and play a good chunk of games.  But he will have to adjust to a full 82-game schedule.  It's usually when you are exhausted that you become complacent and make mistakes.  Will it happen to Johnny? maybe yes... maybe no... but If they deem he should start in the AHL so be it, if he starts in the NHL and is sent down after a cup of coffee I'll be fine too. 

 

It's up to management to temper expectations and develop the players and whatever they deem necessary I'm on board.  Like you quoted Wreck.. If anyone his size will be successful in this league it's going to be Johnny. Plus it's year 2 of the rebuild.... We have no rush, therefore, we have the luxury to develop our young players properly.

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Agree 100%.  And I highly recommend for people to watch the video I posted just before this.

 

Burke is adamant that they will take their time with JH.  Burke believes in him as does Treliving but they want to make sure he can play at this level without getting creamed.  You know teams will focus on him if he stays with the Flames.  JH is a very talented player, of this there is no doubt, but he is (in Burke's words) tiny and I think will take some time before seeing any full time action in Calgary.  He needs to season in the AHL in my opinion and I would not be sad to see him start the year there.

It makes no difference to me if he starts in the NHL, starts in the AHL and gets called up, or plays the entire season in the AHL.  What I care about is that they honestly assess the player and work him into the system based on his skills, how he ranks against the other players on the big team, and how they can best protect the asset. 

 

So for me, the biggest questions to ask are:

- does he show up for the camps and pre-season as a top 6 player?

- do you shelter him on a line with O-zone starts or change on the fly to boost offense?

- How many "Big Ern's" are we going to dress?  In other words, are we going to have an energy line with some size mixed in the other lines?

- Does it make sense to play him early in the season against Eastern teams and mostly smaller Western teams to see how he manages the coverage?

 

Having a guy like Arnold at C, and a linemate like GlenX would give him some options for passing.  That puts a big-bodied centre and a gritty forward with him.  Yes, I know Scoreface is a LW, but he is versatile.

 

Just some thoughts on how he could fit the lineup.  If Burke and BT decide it's best to slow the deployment of a player due to being tiny, I have no issues with protecting the player.  That is if you assume that the AHL is protecting the player. 

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I would simplify the above criteria even more.  Is he physically ready to play in the NHL?  Does he still have room to develop in the AHL?  Until the answer to the first is yes and the answer to the second is no I see no reason to rush him into the NHL.  Regardless of how he performs.  

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If Burke and BT decide it's best to slow the deployment of a player due to being tiny, I have no issues with protecting the player.  That is if you assume that the AHL is protecting the player. 

The "Wolfman" will be there to protect little Johnny.  Unless of coarse you think he's going to make the big team too.

 

I would simplify the above criteria even more.  Is he physically ready to play in the NHL?  Does he still have room to develop in the AHL?  Until the answer to the first is yes and the answer to the second is no I see no reason to rush him into the NHL.  Regardless of how he performs.  

I agree.  I would also answer your questions as No and Yes.  Johnny needs to spend some time in the AHL and be evaluated properly.

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When they drafted Theo he was 5"6 and weight 187 so he was 27 pounds heavier than Little Johnny and Theo I think was a lot meaner than JG. But JG I believe is smarter and a little more talented than Theo I'm not sure how long they had Theo in the AHL but he had no problem adjusting to the NHL and I still think that when you have the God given talent JG has why would you waste it in the minors. He will win the rookie of the yr. 

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I find it interesting how a lot of you don't want to give him the chance to perform on the Flames. I think he has dealt with this issue his whole life and the very least we(the Flames) can do for him is give him his opportunity to show what he is capable of on the big club. If he earns it like he has shown to all his hockey teams and all his life, then let him play here.

 

I don't see any benefit in holding him back or babying him because "you think" he might be too small or lightweight or "you think" he might need time in the AHL.

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I find it interesting how a lot of you don't want to give him the chance to perform on the Flames. I think he has dealt with this issue his whole life and the very least we(the Flames) can do for him is give him his opportunity to show what he is capable of on the big club. If he earns it like he has shown to all his hockey teams and all his life, then let him play here.

I don't see any benefit in holding him back or babying him because "you think" he might be too small or lightweight or "you think" he might need time in the AHL.

I am not suggesting the Flames should treat him any different that any other prospect. Baertschi is a great example of what happens when you rush prospects. Make sure they are ready physically and mentally before putting them in the NHL.

Gaudreau has never played an 80 game season, dealt with the travel, dealt to with the physical play, etc. Give him some time to adjust.

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I am not suggesting the Flames should treat him any different that any other prospect. Baertschi is a great example of what happens when you rush prospects. Make sure they are ready physically and mentally before putting them in the NHL.

Gaudreau has never played an 80 game season, dealt with the travel, dealt to with the physical play, etc. Give him some time to adjust.

 

Well Monahan had never done any of this either. Never played an 80 game season, dealt with the travel, dealt with the physical play...

 

This is the exact attitude I am talking about, why lay all this "baby him in the AHL first crap" due to size, inexperience, weight,  when we should just let him earn his spot if he capable?

 

We all heard the cries for sending Monahan back to Junior for more seasoning, and send him to World Juniors too for more experience ...

 

I don't think it is fair to him to automatically say he should be playing in the AHL before coming to the Flames unless he has shown he needs the time there. So far he has shown no indication of needing time there.

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I am not suggesting the Flames should treat him any different that any other prospect. Baertschi is a great example of what happens when you rush prospects. Make sure they are ready physically and mentally before putting them in the NHL.

Gaudreau has never played an 80 game season, dealt with the travel, dealt to with the physical play, etc. Give him some time to adjust.

Baertschi. Played in the strike-shortened season, but maybe wasn't quite ready. Put him down in the AHL to develop. Brought him up at the end of the season and he had a good finish. He appears ready, so you give him a spot on the Flames. Coach sees something lacking. GM calls him out. Gets healthy scratched. Gets sent down to the AHL for good. Overall, not sure if he wasn't ready for the NHL or wasn't ready to be yanked up and down the depth chart.

With Gaudreau, I can't tell you if he is physically ready for the demands of the NHL. 82 games. Travel. Hitting. Sounds similar to the AHL (Addy will still have a good deal of travel). Mentally he is probably way more mature than a lot of prospects. He fit in college with practices, games, tourneys, and international events. He may be tiny, but he has the heart of a racehorse. He may not make the Flames this year, but that will probably only be because he is not in the top 9.

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Well Monahan had never done any of this either. Never played an 80 game season, dealt with the travel, dealt with the physical play...

 

This is the exact attitude I am talking about, why lay all this "baby him in the AHL first crap" due to size, inexperience, weight,  when we should just let him earn his spot if he capable?

 

We all heard the cries for sending Monahan back to Junior for more seasoning, and send him to World Juniors too for more experience ...

 

I don't think it is fair to him to automatically say he should be playing in the AHL before coming to the Flames unless he has shown he needs the time there. So far he has shown no indication of needing time there.

 

 

 

I'm not saying play him in the AHL because he's small and inexperienced,

 

I just feel that all of our prospects would be better served playing two years in the AHL.

 

We aren't making the play-offs anytime soon so why rush any of them?

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I'm not saying play him in the AHL because he's small and inexperienced,

 

I just feel that all of our prospects would be better served playing two years in the AHL.

 

We aren't making the play-offs anytime soon so why rush any of them?

 

So Monahan would have been better served staying in the OHL because we aren't making the playoffs anytime soon?

 

The best competition is playing with the Flames. The best coaching is with the Flames. The best Doctors, trainers and support are with the Flames. If they are capable then why not have them here?

 

You put the prospects into the best situation for them to develop, by giving them challenges and allowing them to attain and/or defeat those challenges.

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I'm not saying play him in the AHL because he's small and inexperienced,

 

I just feel that all of our prospects would be better served playing two years in the AHL.

 

We aren't making the play-offs anytime soon so why rush any of them?

 

It maybe not two years, but Treliving is giving the impression that out guys are basically going to have to graduate from the AHL before coming to the Bigs.

 

I'm not saying that they shouldn't allow him the chance to play onto the roster but every player is different, contexts are different and I don't think you should case every player with the same mentality.  They start in the AHL unless proven otherwise.

 

Monahan isn't a great comparison because of his situation, there was no middle ground for him develop in and they determined the NHL was good for him.  As long as they properly deploy players I don't care if they start in the NHL... But I still think they have to force their way onto the roster.

 

I'm saying I'll determine whether the new development style being implemented by Treliving and co. is the best way to go about it when we're given some tangible examples.  As of now it's all speculation without results so a determination can't be decently established at this point.

 

In the end some players will thrive in the NHL regardless of if they start in the A or not, others are better served being eased in.  I think dev camp and training camp will give a good indication of where everyone stacks up and who is better off going where. Everyone given a chance but the conditions may be stiff.

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So Monahan would have been better served staying in the OHL because we aren't making the playoffs anytime soon?

The best competition is playing with the Flames. The best coaching is with the Flames. The best Doctors, trainers and support are with the Flames. If they are capable then why not have them here?

You put the prospects into the best situation for them to develop, by giving them challenges and allowing them to attain and/or defeat those challenges.

Monahan was am exception. Even then there is a good chance the Flames would have put him in the AHL if it was an option.

The vast majority of prospects play in the AHL first. Put him in the AHL and worst case is he is dominant and you have to call him up. Put him in the NHL before he is ready and you have limited ice time, scratches, and eventual demmotion. That causes confidence issues.

Show me a prospect ruined by the team taking their time in development. Than I can show you all of the prospects ruined by rushing them. It isn't babying the prospect. It is proper development.

The argument is moot though. Treliving and Burke are both on record as saying they will be patient with prospects. Gaudreau has been specifically mentioned. If he dominates the AHL I am sure he will get an injury call up. But I doubt he starts in the NHL and I don't see that as a bad thing.

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Gaudrea is going to have to earn NHL time and I don't think even the biggest Gaudrea fan can guarantee that will happen. This guy played 1 pro game on a ton of adrenaline and we should just expect him to walk through an NHL training camp based on that? Gaudrea has lots to prove IMO just like Monahan did but Monahan accepted and rose to the challenge but that is VERY rare in prospects. Gaudrea will get his shot but not the worst thing at all for him to play in the A and that's where I would prefer him too but if he earns it he earns it but I feel Gaudrea has far more to show us then many fans seem to think.

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Well Monahan had never done any of this either. Never played an 80 game season, dealt with the travel, dealt with the physical play...

 

This is the exact attitude I am talking about, why lay all this "baby him in the AHL first crap" due to size, inexperience, weight,  when we should just let him earn his spot if he capable?

 

We all heard the cries for sending Monahan back to Junior for more seasoning, and send him to World Juniors too for more experience ...

 

I don't think it is fair to him to automatically say he should be playing in the AHL before coming to the Flames unless he has shown he needs the time there. So far he has shown no indication of needing time there.

 

Size is also one of those things I am tired of hearing about with him. No one gives him credit for sticking it everywhere he plays. I'd love it if he earned his spot next year. I'd love it if he didn't and played well in the AHL. I am glad he made the choice to stay with the Flames organization and I say, let the kids play. They will determine where they play. I am with you on this one Deeds… 

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Plus I feel like Monahan was in that grey area and was just good enough to play. He did well of course, getting 22 goals, but for the most part he was a north-south kind of player. After awhile he added just a bit of east-west to his game.

 

I felt like he could of used an extra year in the AHL, yet, I was okay with him staying with the Flames too. I think he could have used another year of leadership experience, even though he had a lot of it the year he was drafted. But still, I think it would have just added to his experience. 

 

Does he get the sophomore jinx? 

 

Still, he played his way on to the Flames, and I agree with the decision. I am happy with how they're doing things so far. They will make the right decision with Gaudreau, like they eventually did with Baertschi. 

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Monahan was okay in the NHL last season. He had bounces early which really helped his point totals. But he really struggled near the end. He ended up with a lot of goals, but he wasn't one of the big point rookies.

I understand why the CHL transfer agreement exists. But I don't like it. Not having the flexibility to out players in the AHL limits development options.

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If anything this conversation just shows how difficult it is to determine if a player is ready or should be sent down.

 

I say "a player" because I feel each player should be decided upon on their own merit and not some group typecasting that says all players have to put in 2 years in the farm system or something, before getting their chance.

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If anything this conversation just shows how difficult it is to determine if a player is ready or should be sent down.

I say "a player" because I feel each player should be decided upon on their own merit and not some group typecasting that says all players have to put in 2 years in the farm system or something, before getting their chance.

We are in agreement there. The debate is in how aggressive teams should be promoting prospects. I think teams like Detroit and Boston that have had the most success take there time. Teams like the Islanders historically rush prospects and that has hurt them.

I agree we need to be careful not to be the Calgary of old where making the team was insurmountable to most prospects.

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I am only going by what I expect him to be like in camp.  If he shows up the same way he did in his single previous NHL game, and shows that he is a top prospect, then he should make the team.  I can understand Burke's reluctance and tempering expectations; that is and should be his (or BT's) job.  No different than with any prospect.  He doesn't want us to expect Johnny to make the team, nor does he want us to think that because he scored at 2.0 PPG in the NCAA that it is possible in the NHL.

 

That said, if he makes the team on merit then I will be cheering him on as I do any Flames player. 

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If anything this conversation just shows how difficult it is to determine if a player is ready or should be sent down.

 

I say "a player" because I feel each player should be decided upon on their own merit and not some group typecasting that says all players have to put in 2 years in the farm system or something, before getting their chance.

It seems like the fan base gets into a frenzy based on what "the last prospect did" At first we never had any spots open for the young guys, so everyone united and screamed for youth. Then Sven got his chance and was rushed a little while so now every prospect needs to be sent back to jr or down to the AHL. In reality it is a case by case study, each person will determine where they belong, how long they should marinate for and whether there ready for there shot. Come September when training camp starts there will be 23 spots available and no one player should be penciled in until they step onto the ice.

 

If Johnny Hockey shows up and is better then the other LW and shows he is ready to play, then get him into the top 6, If Markus Granlund is playing better then Matt Stajan/Monahan/Backlund then he should be there on opening night, its really that simple. You can make a case for each player and prospect but until the pucks start dropping your just wasting your breath.

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I heard it best spoken by someone on the Fan960 yesterday. "For all those who think he should be playing in the AHL next year. Why?Johnny Gaudreau has NHL skill, NHL speed and NHL smarts. Why would anyone think he'll be sent down?"

 

He has excelled at beating the odds (based on his size) throughout his hockey career. I don't see that changing at this level either. He has a very mature outlook and an extreme desire to succeed in everything he wants to accomplish. And, I think, he relishes the opportunity to prove everyone wrong. His size is a huge plus for his style of play. I predict that on opening night, he'll be dressed in red, skating on Saddledome ice.

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I heard it best spoken by someone on the Fan960 yesterday. "For all those who think he should be playing in the AHL next year. Why?Johnny Gaudreau has NHL skill, NHL speed and NHL smarts. Why would anyone think he'll be sent down?"

 

He has excelled at beating the odds (based on his size) throughout his hockey career. I don't see that changing at this level either. He has a very mature outlook and an extreme desire to succeed in everything he wants to accomplish. And, I think, he relishes the opportunity to prove everyone wrong. His size is a huge plus for his style of play. I predict that on opening night, he'll be dressed in red, skating on Saddledome ice.

 

For me, it's a matter of caution.  There is no denying Gaudfather's skill, speed, or smarts, as he has them in spades.  My concern is that there is a massive difference between being on the receiving end of a check along the boards from a college guy, and being on the receiving end of a check along the boards from NHL heavy-hitters.

 

IMO, every newcomer should spend some time on the farm team, just to get the body accustomed to the physical transition, even if it is only for 20-or-so games.

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I agree with your reply; especially the last sentence, though I would say that they should stay on the farm team for close to a year.

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For me, it's a matter of caution.  There is no denying Gaudfather's skill, speed, or smarts, as he has them in spades.  My concern is that there is a massive difference between being on the receiving end of a check along the boards from a college guy, and being on the receiving end of a check along the boards from NHL heavy-hitters.

 

IMO, every newcomer should spend some time on the farm team, just to get the body accustomed to the physical transition, even if it is only for 20-or-so games.

I think the training regimen is key to Johnny's success in the NHL, not lining up against also-ran AHL players that couln't make the NHL or young guys trying to make a name for themselves.  He needs to build core and leg strength.  "Sheltering" him in the AHL is not much of benefit.  Guys like the Nuge RNH had the option of playing with boys in the CHL.  Johnny does not.

 

If he has the skills to be on the team, then play him.  If he shows weakness in pre-season, that is another story.  It's going to be difficult to predict where he starts this season because he is a drawing card no matter where he is assigned and the Flames are in business to make money.  In the AHL, he will have a fan base from the east coast, where he is a known star.  In the NHL, he is known about from all the scouting of NCAA players.  And all the Flames fans waiting to see him.

 

Saying that, I predict that he will start in the NHL based on his skillset.  Hartley will want him on the 2nd or 3rd line, and will work with him to get him to his potential.  I have no reason to think he gets sent down to the AHL because of his ability to shine at the NHL level.  Saying that, he may get bumped due to having guys like Bollig or needing to give farm kids an opportunity.  Of course he could just sit for a game or 3.      

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