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Johnny 'Hockey' Gaudreau

  

16 members have voted

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  1. 1. How many points will Johnny Hockey score in his sophomore season?

    • 40-50
      1
    • 50-60
      0
    • 60-70
      2
    • 70-80
      7
    • 80-90
      4
    • 90-100
      1
    • 100+
      1


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Should the Flames sign Gaudreau to Tarasenko money and term?

 

Term? Yes.

Would hope to keep the dollars down, but he is the top offensive player on the team.  And part of the core.  And a good reason we made the playoffs last year and make them this year.

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Term? Yes.

Would hope to keep the dollars down, but he is the top offensive player on the team.  And part of the core.  And a good reason we made the playoffs last year and make them this year.

I doubt we see BT get to crazy with Gaudreau's next contract.

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Should the Flames sign Gaudreau to Tarasenko money and term?

 

i wouldn't hate it but I personally don't think they are equal money. 8 years for 7 i think is more fair. 

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Should the Flames sign Gaudreau to Tarasenko money and term?

 

If Johnny was 6’, 219 lbs then I’d say yes but he is not.  Tarasenko has everything Johnny has PLUS the physical attributes.  I’d like to see an 8 yr term as well but south on the dollars.

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Im more curious if anyone would be suprised if we see a bridge deal. I know I know they dont happen anymore, and it might not be the best. But at the same time im left wondering if the flames might want to see him play for another season or two just because of his size before they sign him long term.

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I'd be looking at: 

 

Gaudreau: 7 mil X 8 years

Monahan 6 or 6.5 mil X 8 years

 

They're going to be our top 2 players for a long time. Might as well lock them up. 

 

Bennett currently would be about 4-5 mil X 5 years, but if he takes off in points might get close to Monahan money.

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Im more curious if anyone would be suprised if we see a bridge deal. I know I know they dont happen anymore, and it might not be the best. But at the same time im left wondering if the flames might want to see him play for another season or two just because of his size before they sign him long term.

 

Why would he sign a bridge deal?  It would be less money for him now.  Let's say he signed one for 3 yrs at $5m for some weird reason.  When we re-signed him, there is no risk to the Flames anymore, so there is no way to keep the dollars down at all.  An 8-yr deal then would be buying 3 additional years of FA, and that would also cost big $$.

 

Signing now, they can use the lack of experience to keep the dollars down a little, while buying some years of FA.  Even then, he is going to be more than $6.5m.

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I think Johnny is worth $7-mil X 8-years for sure... I wouldn't even be mad if it actually was $7.5-mil X 8-years.

 

Some have suggested Monahan and Gaudreau should sign identical contracts like Toews and Kane.  The underlying reason I asked the question of what Johnny is worth is because I believe there's no way we should sign Monahan to $7.5-mil X 8-years.  No way whatsoever.  $7-mil X 8-years is pushing it.  $6-mil X 8-years is more like it.

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I think Johnny is worth $7-mil X 8-years for sure... I wouldn't even be mad if it actually was $7.5-mil X 8-years.

 

Some have suggested Monahan and Gaudreau should sign identical contracts like Toews and Kane.  The underlying reason I asked the question of what Johnny is worth is because I believe there's no way we should sign Monahan to $7.5-mil X 8-years.  No way whatsoever.  $7-mil X 8-years is pushing it.  $6-mil X 8-years is more like it.

 

Monahan could be our #1C for years to come, or get bumped to #2C.  Center is a tougher position to play than wing, but Johnny looks to be on pace to be about 20 points higher than Monahan.  If they were a lot closer, I could see similar deals.  

 

The other argument for Johnny making more is that he drives the offense.  Monahan is not really a passenger, but would likely have less points per season without Johnny.

 

My preference is that we re-sign Johnny to the bigger contract.  Monahan becomes a more important  (and better overall) player after he signs.  Bennett's play remains good, but not Johnny level for the next year and we re-sign him to a deal a bit less than Monahan.  ($7m, $6.5m, and $5.5m respectively).

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Im more curious if anyone would be suprised if we see a bridge deal. I know I know they dont happen anymore, and it might not be the best. But at the same time im left wondering if the flames might want to see him play for another season or two just because of his size before they sign him long term.

I don't see size as a good reason to go for a bridge deal especially with JH.

 

The guy has done everything and more for us we could have asked. There is no reason that size is a reason to ask him to take a bridge deal.

 

If he was struggling to progress a bit, or struggling keeping up maybe i would consider this but he has been the driving force for the Flames since day 1 and all season so far.

 

Bridge deals are for when you are unsure of a player. What exactly about JH's play are you unsure of?

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Why would he sign a bridge deal?  It would be less money for him now.  Let's say he signed one for 3 yrs at $5m for some weird reason.  When we re-signed him, there is no risk to the Flames anymore, so there is no way to keep the dollars down at all.  An 8-yr deal then would be buying 3 additional years of FA, and that would also cost big $$.

 

Signing now, they can use the lack of experience to keep the dollars down a little, while buying some years of FA.  Even then, he is going to be more than $6.5m.

I didnt say he would, but he still is an RFA and doesnt have much for negotiation. I was just saying it for sake of conversation.

 

Bridge deals are for when you are unsure of a player. What exactly about JH's play are you unsure of?

 Im not really unsure of anything, im just speculating if the flames still might be unsure of his size in comparison to say tarasenko as someone mentioned. It was just for conversation.

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I didnt say he would, but he still is an RFA and doesnt have much for negotiation. I was just saying it for sake of conversation.

 Im not really unsure of anything, im just speculating if the flames still might be unsure of his size in comparison to say tarasenko as someone mentioned. It was just for conversation.

 

Just throwing the question back to you.  As an RFA, he can reject the qualifying offer if not signed prior to going RFA.  They would never offer a QA.  He's played two years so far (will by the end of season), so they know his play has improved from tied for 1st in rookie scoring to currently 8th in the league.  That is pretty rare.  We are talking Crosby/Kane rare.  You don't insult with a bridge deal.  You back the truck up and hope they will sign for your highest offer for the longest term.

 

Player that play big are as valuable as a big player.  Team leaders in points get paid.

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Just throwing the question back to you.  As an RFA, he can reject the qualifying offer if not signed prior to going RFA.  They would never offer a QA.  He's played two years so far (will by the end of season), so they know his play has improved from tied for 1st in rookie scoring to currently 8th in the league.  That is pretty rare.  We are talking Crosby/Kane rare.  You don't insult with a bridge deal.  You back the truck up and hope they will sign for your highest offer for the longest term.

 

Player that play big are as valuable as a big player.  Team leaders in points get paid.

I dont disagree im all for a long term big money contract haha.

 

I was just suggesting a weird situation due to his size.

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I'm holding out that we manage to lock up JH at $6 million, Monny at $5.5-5.75. If JH outperforms last years numbers then yea we might be looking closer to $7 mill. It's a tough position because it's not the fact he puts up points, he's scored the majority of the timely goals for the Flames, that gives him big leverage come negotiations. I also believe BT will get a bit of a bargain convincing them to consider rebuild potential and emphasis on cap flexibility at this time of a rebuild.

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I'm holding out that we manage to lock up JH at $6 million, Monny at $5.5-5.75. If JH outperforms last years numbers then yea we might be looking closer to $7 mill. It's a tough position because it's not the fact he puts up points, he's scored the majority of the timely goals for the Flames, that gives him big leverage come negotiations. I also believe BT will get a bit of a bargain convincing them to consider rebuild potential and emphasis on cap flexibility at this time of a rebuild.

 

He's at 1.0 p/gp right now.  And that's going through a few 4 game scoreless droughts.  He's well ahead of last season's output and shows no real sign of falling off.  He only needs 24 points in 42 games to tie last season's output.  Pretty easy to do.  Compare him to what Iggy signed for.  Then add for inflation/salary increases.  $6m would be grand theft.  

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It's too bad that Gaudreau and Monahan's ELCs weren't just one year longer, as the Flames would have so much more Cap space to work with.

 

I'm guessing that the two of them will collectively cost Calgary around $14M/year on 6 - 8 year terms.

 

As it is, it will be difficult to keep more than one or two of the upcoming UFAs:  Hiller, Hudler, Jones, Nakladal, Ramo, and Russell.

Trading most of them them before the season ends for whatever picks are offered may be the best solution.

 

NHL roster RFAs Colborne, Granlund, Jooris will require raises, as will any of the 10 Stockton RFAs that the Flames may want to keep: Agostino, Arnold, Elson, Grant, Hamilton, Orito, Poulin,, Shore, Van Brabant, & Wotherspoon.  

 

I guess that's why Trevling makes the big bucks, he will need to pull off some magic by the end of this season to fit under the Cap, while still retaining all the players he wants.

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It's too bad that Gaudreau and Monahan's ELCs weren't just one year longer, as the Flames would have so much more Cap space to work with.

 

I'm guessing that the two of them will collectively cost Calgary around $14M/year on 6 - 8 year terms.

 

As it is, it will be difficult to keep more than one or two of the upcoming UFAs:  Hiller, Hudler, Jones, Nakladal, Ramo, and Russell.

Trading most of them them before the season ends for whatever picks are offered may be the best solution.

 

NHL roster RFAs Colborne, Granlund, Jooris will require raises, as will any of the 10 Stockton RFAs that the Flames may want to keep: Agostino, Arnold, Elson, Grant, Hamilton, Orito, Poulin,, Shore, Van Brabant, & Wotherspoon.  

 

I guess that's why Trevling makes the big bucks, he will need to pull off some magic by the end of this season to fit under the Cap, while still retaining all the players he wants.

 

The easiest solution is trade anyone and everyone not signed beyond Johnny and Mony.  That does not mean it is the best solution.

A guy like Jones doesn't not have a lot of trade value, but could be valuable to the Flames after TDL.  Give him a number that you are looking at paying for him in the off-season.  He can sign right away, wait till the end of the season to see if his stock rises, or wait after FA for offers.  

 

From what I have seen to date, Colborne, Granlund, and Jooris will not get huge raises.  QA unless they take a step forward.  The AHL crew getting raises is not a big issue unless they are making the team.

 

Hudler and Russell will likely get traded before TDL.  As much as I like Hudler, I don't think any raise to him is affordable.  I think he is playing hurt, but that is neither here nor there.  He should bring back a good enough return.  Russell has probably already discussed $$, and I don't really think BT will pay that much.  Too many cheaper options out there.  If a great deal came around for Wideman, he might also trade Russell, but that would have to mean a top 5D replaces him.

 

If Ramo continues to play at this level, he will get a 2 year deal.  Hiller is gone by TDL or just walks.

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I think anyone hoping Johnny coming in under 7 is setting themselves up for disappointment.

Why we expect players to sign for less than market is a little beyond me.

He is at Tarasenko term and dollars as far as I'm concerned, and I thought the Tarasenko deal was solid from day 1, I'll add Army's an old school friend so I'm jaded lol...and a big St Loo fan.

It's daunting to think about 8 years in term, but there's no arguing he is becoming the face of the franchise and representing us really well.

Someone mentioned $14 mil per for the 2, I'd agree, 7.5 and 6.5.

There will be teams lining up if we think we can lowball current player values.

BT's best work has to be yet to come, not in the signings, but managing the team well outside of the signings.

For me, the signings are obvious, if a .1 or .2 is saved from Johnny, it likely ends up at Monahan.

No point undervaluing a 30G C who carries his head high in the toughest matchups at 21. $6.5 per when he's 26/27 could be a huge bargain.

Might look like lots now, but it's the cost of doing business. In 4 or 5 years, the signings will look even better.

Look at say a zetterberg, great player, but from 35 to 40, he's pulling down $6.08. These 2 will barely surpass 30yo when 8 years are up.

I wouldn't want this to carry another yr as someone suggested. Proof will be in a Wings uni again, when Larkin's ELC expires after the 17/18 season. He's already one of their all around best players. Timing will never be right, so just do what's right when it's on you.

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Hiller is gone for sure, just a matter if they have enough faith in Ortio as a NHL backup, not sure when Gillies is back either so that may further complicate things. Jones is still serviceable, not tons of pts but he's good on the forecheck and provides size. I'd love to see the Flames like RW like Wayne Simmonds but that'll cost us. Hudler is an interesting one, he looks like he's been playing hurt but that chemistry last year on that top line was undeniable..one of the best lines in NHL last year. If we're still in tight in the playoff race by TDL, I just don't see BT disrupting this team and risking derailing a potential playoff run. I'd be fine with us being big time sellers and getting some picks, prospects or more able NHLers come trade deadline. I still don't see us going deep in the playoffs , not this year. I think Russell/Widemen can still get us fairly solid return value. Really too bad we haven't seen more growth from our AHL group..it would save them tons of $ moving forward

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I agree rickross. We still need to gather up picks imho. Prospects we have don't seem to be accelerating at all beyond bottom 6 maybes ala Jooris.

Need to keep stocking 18yos and develop them into our systems. No way around it imho.

Sign a backup that's been in the league for 5 odd years, and lean on our scouting to find the players we want.

I don't see we have trade value players for a good player without taking a hit, take the picks and make the picks those players.

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You look at the players surrounding Gaudreau in the scoring race (excluding superstars with cup wins and players on extreme value contracts)

Blake wheeler 5.6

Joe pavelski 6

Taylor hall 6

Bergeron 6.875

Benn 5.25

Seguin 5.75

Karlsson 6.5

Sedin 7

Tarasenko 7.5

Avg = 6.275

Everyone is using the highest cap hit on the entire list as the only comparable. Now I understand he's young and the cap has inflated but to compete with these teams we need reasonable flexibility.

I can't see the cap hit going above Gio's 6.75. I think the only thing that remains to be seen is whether that buys free agency years of not.

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You look at the players surrounding Gaudreau in the scoring race (excluding superstars with cup wins and players on extreme value contracts)

Blake wheeler 5.6

Joe pavelski 6

Taylor hall 6

Bergeron 6.875

Benn 5.25

Seguin 5.75

Karlsson 6.5

Sedin 7

Tarasenko 7.5

Avg = 6.275

Everyone is using the highest cap hit on the entire list as the only comparable. Now I understand he's young and the cap has inflated but to compete with these teams we need reasonable flexibility.

I can't see the cap hit going above Gio's 6.75. I think the only thing that remains to be seen is whether that buys free agency years of not.

 

So, of those players listed, who had a 64 point rookie year, followed up by a p/gp sophomore year pace?  When you find one, look at the salary they are making.  I may have missed one, but didn't see any.  Who signed recently?  Tarasenko.  Using Gio's salary as the top cap hit expected is not a reasonable argument.  Maybe the Flames can do that, but don't hold your breath. 

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The easiest solution is trade anyone and everyone not signed beyond Johnny and Mony.  That does not mean it is the best solution.

A guy like Jones doesn't not have a lot of trade value, but could be valuable to the Flames after TDL.  Give him a number that you are looking at paying for him in the off-season.  He can sign right away, wait till the end of the season to see if his stock rises, or wait after FA for offers.  

 

From what I have seen to date, Colborne, Granlund, and Jooris will not get huge raises.  QA unless they take a step forward.  The AHL crew getting raises is not a big issue unless they are making the team.

 

Hudler and Russell will likely get traded before TDL.  As much as I like Hudler, I don't think any raise to him is affordable.  I think he is playing hurt, but that is neither here nor there.  He should bring back a good enough return.  Russell has probably already discussed $$, and I don't really think BT will pay that much.  Too many cheaper options out there.  If a great deal came around for Wideman, he might also trade Russell, but that would have to mean a top 5D replaces him.

 

If Ramo continues to play at this level, he will get a 2 year deal.  Hiller is gone by TDL or just walks.

 

 

 

I agree with pretty much most of your thoughts.

 

None of the RFAs except for JG & SM will be receiving large raises.

 

As to the UFAs:

 

Hiller - trade for any draft pick.

 

Hudler - reportedly seeking $5.5M - $5.75M, trade for pick.

 

Jones - would he accept a 25% - 35% discount from his current $4M salary? If not, trade for any pick.

 

Nakladal - resign at similar $ or trade for any pick.

 

Ramo - must continue his current play to earn a new contract with a minor raise.

 

Russell - reportedly seeking $3.5M - $4M, trade for pick.

 

 

I absolutely hate seeing UFA players walk for nothing.

 

Even a 5th to 7th pick is better than squat.

 

The Flames can replace them with prospects from Stockton for the remainder of the season after the TDL.

 

 

Unless of course, you think that the Flames have a decent chance of going deep in the play-offs, in which case, keep them all and let them walk away for nothing after the play-offs.

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