Jump to content
The Official Site of the Calgary Flames
s4xon

Johnny 'Hockey' Gaudreau

  

16 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. How many points will Johnny Hockey score in his sophomore season?

    • 40-50
      1
    • 50-60
      0
    • 60-70
      2
    • 70-80
      7
    • 80-90
      4
    • 90-100
      1
    • 100+
      1


Recommended Posts

One of the only players I would only trade Johnny for in the entire NHL is Carey Price.  

 

And if the Habs want Elliott included, then I'll take Alexei Emelin because Lucic.  The Flames would be about 500k over the cap but that can be remedied easily.  If we need to throw in Poirier to get the whole thing done, then let's do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the only players I would only trade Johnny for in the entire NHL is Carey Price.  

 

And if the Habs want Elliott included, then I'll take Alexei Emelin because Lucic.  The Flames would be about 500k over the cap but that can be remedied easily.  If we need to throw in Poirier to get the whole thing done, then let's do it.

Personally I would try everything before I traded Gaudreau, but if you can't sign him for $8mm or under and the season is upon us, I would seriously consider it.  If it gets to that point its probably because he's proven even greater worth in this "best-on-best" tournament and put himself, arguably into the "Superstar" category i.e. a lot like Patrick Kane.  

 

You NEVER trade these guys for volume, its got to be proven return plus upside.  Unfortunately at that point of time (start of the season) the chance another team is going to trade away its own Star/ Superstar player are probably nil, so it ain't happening.

 

I already proposed an Edmonton mega-trade earlier (Puljujarvi & Nurse as the main principles, but others on both sides... Wideman & Kulak/Kylington, Yakupov, 2017 1st Rounder...).  They are a team possibly more open then others, since they are still building and the Chiarelli/Mclelland insight factor.  Plus the two principles of Puljujarvi & Nurse are yet to be fully established there.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^^^

 

I don't think we get to that point.  Even if the agent is looking for $8m today, that is not that far from a reasonable number that the Flames can live with.  Even though Johnny is not in contact with the agent right now, doesn't mean that the sides have ceased talking.

The agent is still negotiating.  

 

There isn't a trade out there that both teams would be happy with.  We would have to get a Stamkos-level player to replace the market value of Johnny.  Goalies don't sell tickets.  Subban is exciting to watch, but people don't pay to watch him defend.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I'm alone on this...but I would trade him.

 

Ok...get your guns out lol

The question from your statement is why would you trade him ? because he asked for 8M or because the Flames would better the team ?

BT has to keep emotion out of the process and attempt to do what is best for the team both now and its future. We have a good thing with JG and in business both sides are trying to get the best deal they can. I think BT gets a deal we can all live with, even Johnny.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I would try everything before I traded Gaudreau, but if you can't sign him for $8mm or under and the season is upon us, I would seriously consider it.  If it gets to that point its probably because he's proven even greater worth in this "best-on-best" tournament and put himself, arguably into the "Superstar" category i.e. a lot like Patrick Kane.  

 

You NEVER trade these guys for volume, its got to be proven return plus upside.  Unfortunately at that point of time (start of the season) the chance another team is going to trade away its own Star/ Superstar player are probably nil, so it ain't happening.

 

I already proposed an Edmonton mega-trade earlier (Puljujarvi & Nurse as the main principles, but others on both sides... Wideman & Kulak/Kylington, Yakupov, 2017 1st Rounder...).  They are a team possibly more open then others, since they are still building and the Chiarelli/Mclelland insight factor.  Plus the two principles of Puljujarvi & Nurse are yet to be fully established there.  

 

This is exactly why I dont' think trading Gaudreau is a very viable option. Not becuase I'm opposed to the idea but because i feel like the return woudln't be satisfactory. If the Flames trade Gaudreau they need to get a forward back that is similar. I don't want a collection of prosepcts, I don't want a young top 6 forward and a prospect I would want someone back in the age range of 22-25 that can play right now and still be part of the future in this club

 

That is a very tough trade to pull off. I don't see alot of teams with assets like that they would want to move, nor are they many teams out there with the cap space to fit him. Trading Gaudreau for a collection of prospects sets this team back and is IMO a big waste of time and that is typically the type of trade offers you will get. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The question from your statement is why would you trade him ? because he asked for 8M or because the Flames would better the team ?

BT has to keep emotion out of the process and attempt to do what is best for the team both now and its future. We have a good thing with JG and in business both sides are trying to get the best deal they can. I think BT gets a deal we can all live with, even Johnny.

 

It's a good thing BT is negotiating and not me as I'd have caved by now !  If Johnny wants $8million, I'd insist on 8 years but I could live with that cap hit.  I really hope the reports of Calgary wanting him for $6.5 aren't true as that's a low offer IMO.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm, I think the fact he isn't as good on the road hurts him a bit. It tells me he still can't dominate. He can dominate when the match ups are in our favour at home. But on the road he gets the best defenders against him.

 

 

I dont' think this issue gets brought up enough quite frankily, because it is reason number 1 I am not for just giving him whatever he wants. I fully expect Gaudreau will bridge the gap somewhat, but you say teams play Gaudreau diferently last year and when they get their matchups on the road he really suffered. His road scoring rate was alongside the likes of Travis Zajac and his road plus minus was in the bottom 10 of the league. Not all his fault but it just shows you can't just pass this guy a void cheque it needs to be on the right deal and its also why I dont' think he is worth Tarasenko money. Tarasenko had similar point totals and is basically equal home vs away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont' think this issue gets brought up enough quite frankily, because it is reason number 1 I am not for just giving him whatever he wants. I fully expect Gaudreau will bridge the gap somewhat, but you say teams play Gaudreau diferently last year and when they get their matchups on the road he really suffered. His road scoring rate was alongside the likes of Travis Zajac and his road plus minus was in the bottom 10 of the league. Not all his fault but it just shows you can't just pass this guy a void cheque it needs to be on the right deal and its also why I dont' think he is worth Tarasenko money. Tarasenko had similar point totals and is basically equal home vs away.

 

You can't look at just his points though.  Both Monahan and Gio's are higher at home than the road.  Since Johnny plays with those guys the most, then they are all linked.  If Monahan is struggling on the road as well, then how is Johnny going to get assists or goals?  Did he have a consistent RW for all his games?  

 

Not trying to make excuses.  He needs to have a better split of points between the road and home.  They need to find the right RW to play with him and Monahan.  And they need to stop having Engelland on the ice when Johnny is out there.  Let his linemates provide protection or have Ferland or Gio tune up any offenders when they have the chance.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is exactly why I dont' think trading Gaudreau is a very viable option. Not becuase I'm opposed to the idea but because i feel like the return woudln't be satisfactory. If the Flames trade Gaudreau they need to get a forward back that is similar. I don't want a collection of prosepcts, I don't want a young top 6 forward and a prospect I would want someone back in the age range of 22-25 that can play right now and still be part of the future in this club

 

That is a very tough trade to pull off. I don't see alot of teams with assets like that they would want to move, nor are they many teams out there with the cap space to fit him. Trading Gaudreau for a collection of prospects sets this team back and is IMO a big waste of time and that is typically the type of trade offers you will get. 

Agree totally, no team is going to give up that asset to start the season.  The trade I put out there is slightly different (with the Oilers) because of the reasons I mentioned, but it still is a HUGE risk to the Flames as Gaudreau is PROVEN and their guys are not.  The balance of the deal would have to weight heavily towards the Flames and that would be tough for them to accept, much less a blockbuster trade with your arch-enemy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't look at just his points though.  Both Monahan and Gio's are higher at home than the road.  Since Johnny plays with those guys the most, then they are all linked.  If Monahan is struggling on the road as well, then how is Johnny going to get assists or goals?  Did he have a consistent RW for all his games?  

 

Not trying to make excuses.  He needs to have a better split of points between the road and home.  They need to find the right RW to play with him and Monahan.  And they need to stop having Engelland on the ice when Johnny is out there.  Let his linemates provide protection or have Ferland or Gio tune up any offenders when they have the chance.  

 

I don't.

 

You don't have to look at his points, or really points in general, to know that Gaudreau struggled on the road and struggles when the Flames can't get their matchups. If you want 8 million and you want to be paid like one of the highest paid players in the league then all the stuff you just listed cannot be reasons for the discrepency in point totals.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't.

 

You don't have to look at his points, or really points in general, to know that Gaudreau struggled on the road and struggles when the Flames can't get their matchups. If you want 8 million and you want to be paid like one of the highest paid players in the league then all the stuff you just listed cannot be reasons for the discrepency in point totals.

 

I'm also not suggesting he should get $8m (Francis reported numbers).  I would be happy up to about $7.25m just because of him being a winger and Tarasenko playing on a more defensive team.  The two aren't really equal.  Tarasenko is a combo of power and skill, while Johnny is more a combo of skill and IQ.  Kane is a better comp, but you can't use his salary, unless you adjust his 2nd deal to today's dollars ($7.75m).  I don't think he is worth that much right now.  Not enough game play yet and little playoff experience.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I'm alone on this...but I would trade him.

 

Ok...get your guns out lol

Actually you're about the 4th to mention it.

I proposed the trade to NJ for Hall+.

A few days later a poster (I forget who) offered a different 1 but it was still Gaudreau moving.

Then there was the 1 I shot down about Gaudreau to Philly for Simmonds & Povorov.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually you're about the 4th to mention it.

I proposed the trade to NJ for Hall+.

A few days later a poster (I forget who) offered a different 1 but it was still Gaudreau moving.

Then there was the 1 I shot down about Gaudreau to Philly for Simmonds & Povorov.

Burn them all...  

 

8d59f49d2a6481599aa13303c84bf798.png

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I would try everything before I traded Gaudreau, but if you can't sign him for $8mm or under and the season is upon us, I would seriously consider it.  If it gets to that point its probably because he's proven even greater worth in this "best-on-best" tournament and put himself, arguably into the "Superstar" category i.e. a lot like Patrick Kane.  

 

You NEVER trade these guys for volume, its got to be proven return plus upside.  Unfortunately at that point of time (start of the season) the chance another team is going to trade away its own Star/ Superstar player are probably nil, so it ain't happening.

 

I already proposed an Edmonton mega-trade earlier (Puljujarvi & Nurse as the main principles, but others on both sides... Wideman & Kulak/Kylington, Yakupov, 2017 1st Rounder...).  They are a team possibly more open then others, since they are still building and the Chiarelli/Mclelland insight factor.  Plus the two principles of Puljujarvi & Nurse are yet to be fully established there.  

 

Well, i'm proposing,

 

To Flames,

Carey Price

Alexei Emelin

 

To Canadiens,

Johnny Gaudreau

Brian Elliot

Emile Poirier

 

Carey Price just turned 29.  Goalies of his caliber are solid until 35 before we see decline.  That's 6-years of Vezina/Hart Trophy level goaltending that could help the Flames win a Cup sooner rather than later.  Price has proven he can make an entire team by himself.  He can take a bottom dwelling team like the Canadiens to the playoffs and without him, the Canadiens crashed and burned.

 

Meanwhile, Gaudreau hasn't been able to carry a bad team into the playoffs by himself (perhaps one day in the future but not at the moment).  That and goaltending is WAY more impactful than a LW.

 

We will give the Canadiens Brian Elliot. Cap friendly and dependable.  Not Carey Price's level but has veteran experience and can get the job done.

 

We should trade for Emelin to counter Lucic in Edmonton.  These two have a feud going on.  We can't let Lucic do his thing to us without an answer.

 

And Poirier, because he's a potential 2nd/3rd line RW who hasn't been able to get over that hump.  The Flames have locked up Frolik and Brouwer to be long term 2nd/3rd line RWs.  Poirier can't bring the physicality of Brouwer and he is unlikely to be as good as Frolik in the near future.  He should go and he's always been linked to Montreal since his draft year.

 

All in all, i think we can weather losing a LW since we have emerging youth on LW with Tkachuk, Mangiapane, and Shinkaruk.

 

TLDR, who needs to score when nobody can score on us. It's worked for the Habs with Price in the line-up.  It could work for us too, plus, we have more offensive weapons than the Habs ever did in Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk, and our D.  We win this trade for the next 6 years until Price declines.  After that, we can try to sign Johnny back as a UFA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, i'm proposing,

 

To Flames,

Carey Price

Alexei Emelin

 

To Canadiens,

Johnny Gaudreau

Brian Elliot

Emile Poirier

 

TLDR, who needs to score when nobody can score on us. It's worked for the Habs with Price in the line-up.  It could work for us too, plus, we have more offensive weapons than the Habs ever did in Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk, and our D.  We win this trade for the next 6 years until Price declines.  After that, we can try to sign Johnny back as a UFA.

That begs the question why MTL would do it then, unless they're that hung up on having French last names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That begs the question why MTL would do it then, unless they're that hung up on having French last names.

 

After they traded away Subban for Weber, i believe they would be willing to trade anyone.  While Price can single handedly take them to the playoffs, i think they also have enough hockey minds to realize they just don't have the complete package up front to contend for a Cup in the near future.  It may be a good decision for them to acquire one of the most interesting young offensive weapons in the NHL and retool.

 

They could be thinking after Pacioretty, they have no true offensive weapons and Pacioretty is hardly a top tier offensive threat. Gaudreau is a young core piece they can build from.  The Habs are known for "small, fast, and skilled."  That's exactly what Gaudreau is and he fits right into what they are doing over there.  Elliott provides a stop gap until Zach Fucale is NHL ready.  And they've always liked Poirier based on draft rumours.

 

They were so desperate for forwards that they overpaid big for Andrew Shaw.  I think they are desperate for scoring.  But ya, they are giving up the best player in this trade right now although over time, Gaudreau could turn out to be the best player.  For the Habs, this is taking one step back in order to take two steps forward in the future.

 

For the Flames, this represents a legitimate window for the Flames to win a Cup.

 

By the time Tkachuk is 20/21 years old and first line material, Monahan and Bennett are considered established 1A/1B Centers, perhaps we get pleasantly surprised by Shinkaruk and Mangiapane, Perhaps Jankowski establishes himself, perhaps graduate Kylington, Andersson, and Hickey to the D group and still have Giordano effective in a veteran/captain role... All this within the prime of a Vezina/Hart Trophy goaltender.  

 

Without Price, the Flames Cup chances will fall on Jon Gillies who has great potential but Price is proven.  We're not totally sure about Gillies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he will be signed for under 7.5. Projections are tricky but he's trending up. He's treding like even 8x8 might be a bargain. We need to get him signed, hopefully at around 7.25, but either way, sign him long term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That begs the question why MTL would do it then, unless they're that hung up on having French last names.

I think the Canadians are about as likely to trade Price as the Flames are to trade Gaudreau. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ There is no way Habs trade Price, hell he is their team.  I believe he signs but the more this tournament goes on could solidify what his agent is asking for. Really he is a standout on a team with highly touted #1 draft picks. If JG continues and stands out  against the best players in the world, Trevling may have to bend more than he is comfortable.

 

Is he tradeable, yes everyone is... Every team could use him, but we are not getting back what we are giving up. To get a similar player which is going to cost what he is asking anyway, with JG we have a guy that wants to be here. Much like Bishop, pretty sure we are not high on the trade list of many stars of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After they traded away Subban for Weber, i believe they would be willing to trade anyone.  While Price can single handedly take them to the playoffs, i think they also have enough hockey minds to realize they just don't have the complete package up front to contend for a Cup in the near future.  It may be a good decision for them to acquire one of the most interesting young offensive weapons in the NHL and retool.

 

They could be thinking after Pacioretty, they have no true offensive weapons and Pacioretty is hardly a top tier offensive threat. Gaudreau is a young core piece they can build from.  The Habs are known for "small, fast, and skilled."  That's exactly what Gaudreau is and he fits right into what they are doing over there.  Elliott provides a stop gap until Zach Fucale is NHL ready.  And they've always liked Poirier based on draft rumours.

 

They were so desperate for forwards that they overpaid big for Andrew Shaw.  I think they are desperate for scoring.  But ya, they are giving up the best player in this trade right now although over time, Gaudreau could turn out to be the best player.  For the Habs, this is taking one step back in order to take two steps forward in the future.

 

For the Flames, this represents a legitimate window for the Flames to win a Cup.

 

By the time Tkachuk is 20/21 years old and first line material, Monahan and Bennett are considered established 1A/1B Centers, perhaps we get pleasantly surprised by Shinkaruk and Mangiapane, Perhaps Jankowski establishes himself, perhaps graduate Kylington, Andersson, and Hickey to the D group and still have Giordano effective in a veteran/captain role... All this within the prime of a Vezina/Hart Trophy goaltender.  

 

Without Price, the Flames Cup chances will fall on Jon Gillies who has great potential but Price is proven.  We're not totally sure about Gillies.

Nice to see your dreams in print but I think when you wake up Price will still be a Hab and Gaudreau a Flame LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This tournament is getting interesting when it comes to JH.  I fully expect Canada and the US to be able to shut down Gaudreau's line but if they can't, BT is going to wish he'd already signed him !  I hate that he's there without a contract right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This tournament is getting interesting when it comes to JH.  I fully expect Canada and the US to be able to shut down Gaudreau's line but if they can't, BT is going to wish he'd already signed him !  I hate that he's there without a contract right now.

 

Players from Team Canada that were able to shut down Johnny Hockey - Getzlaf and Perry.  But they only play TC or USA if they make it out of their division.  Team NA will have better success when they have "home" games.  Last change, etc.  The only home game Team NA has is against Russia on the 2nd game of a B2B.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ There is no way Habs trade Price, hell he is their team.  I believe he signs but the more this tournament goes on could solidify what his agent is asking for. Really he is a standout on a team with highly touted #1 draft picks. If JG continues and stands out  against the best players in the world, Trevling may have to bend more than he is comfortable.

 

Is he tradeable, yes everyone is... Every team could use him, but we are not getting back what we are giving up. To get a similar player which is going to cost what he is asking anyway, with JG we have a guy that wants to be here. Much like Bishop, pretty sure we are not high on the trade list of many stars of the game.

The only way I see Price being traded is in a Patrick Roy situation. I don't expect it to come to that though.

 

Are you 100% sure Gaudreau wants to be in Calgary? Most players sing the praises of the city/organization until after the trade gets them out & they go on to talk about their great expectations for their new team with the hopes they can be part of that.

The Drouin situation this year reminded players (& agents) that a trade demand by a player with little (if any) leverage can result in said player drawing no paycheck.

The rumor mill is full of speculation that RFAs (not just Johnny) are resorting to untenable asks to force a trade without being seen as demanding 1 (keep the fans on your side) only to sign a more realistic contract right after the trade. At worst it keeps the door open for a bridge contract as by the end of that they usually have more leverage (such as arbitration rights).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way I see Price being traded is in a Patrick Roy situation. I don't expect it to come to that though.

 

Are you 100% sure Gaudreau wants to be in Calgary? Most players sing the praises of the city/organization until after the trade gets them out & they go on to talk about their great expectations for their new team with the hopes they can be part of that.

The Drouin situation this year reminded players (& agents) that a trade demand by a player with little (if any) leverage can result in said player drawing no paycheck.

The rumor mill is full of speculation that RFAs (not just Johnny) are resorting to untenable asks to force a trade without being seen as demanding 1 (keep the fans on your side) only to sign a more realistic contract right after the trade. At worst it keeps the door open for a bridge contract as by the end of that they usually have more leverage (such as arbitration rights).

There has been no indications that the player wishes to leave. As politely correct as I agree some players can be, JG strikes me as a guy that has been raised well. I could agree with your assumption but really is his asking price out of line. Typical negotiations in anything seller wants high buyer wants low, find common ground.  Either agent or GM are out of bounds yet. I will go out a state that if he has a good tournament, the ball is in JG favor. The only way he doesn't get signed is because management feels he isn't worth the price others would pay. Now that will cause the boat to rock in the manner you speak of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...