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Johnny 'Hockey' Gaudreau

  

16 members have voted

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  1. 1. How many points will Johnny Hockey score in his sophomore season?

    • 40-50
      1
    • 50-60
      0
    • 60-70
      2
    • 70-80
      7
    • 80-90
      4
    • 90-100
      1
    • 100+
      1


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Every team would pay Gaudreau to be on their team.

I am very attentive to this sport unlike your attention to my post.

I'll repeat it for you.

pay JG the level of a top 20 player in the NHL.

Suggesting the Flames will pay him more then other teams because he is small doesn't make any sense.

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The $8.5 number that Elliott Freidman dropped yesterday is a bit concerning.  If true and if JG won't come significantly off that number, for a long term deal, maybe a 5 year bridge deal makes sense....or whatever the number of years to UFA is.  Johnny simply hasn't been doing it long enough to get paid that much.  Stamkos is not his comparable.

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I think Gaudreau's value to Calgary is higher than his value league wide. I don't think any team in the league is going to pay him $8.5m. I think there are very few teams in the league that would pay him $7+m.

Between his contract ask and his size he doesn't have the trade value, to get the return that you would want from a player of his caliber. For example Gaudreau isn't getting near as much as a return in a trade as Tarasenko would garner.

I am Gaudreau fan, but size is still concern league wide, so is the fact that he seems to struggle on the road.

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I think Gaudreau's value to Calgary is higher than his value league wide. I don't think any team in the league is going to pay him $8.5m. I think there are very few teams in the league that would pay him $7+m.

Between his contract ask and his size he doesn't have the trade value, to get the return that you would want from a player of his caliber. For example Gaudreau isn't getting near as much as a return in a trade as Tarasenko would garner.

I am Gaudreau fan, but size is still concern league wide, so is the fact that he seems to struggle on the road.

If the ask is 8.5 not sure how people think it is harsh, Gio's ask was rumored to be 9. Would I pay him 8.5 no, but asking high is normal. We know how we fared without Gio but how do we fare without JG? There is a slim chance his agent recommends he holds out but I believe JG desire to play supersedes that. Really his contract for any long term at 8 years has to start with a 7, IMHO 7.2 to 7.5  for 8 years, if not I sign for best dollar amount and term to get me to free agency and to a club that will pay.

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Friedman suggested tonight Gaudreau's number is (now) $8.5mm. Ouch, getting worse. Nobody wants this debate, but it's interesting in any case. Panarin is closest to JH in that list of scorers, but of course he was WITH the top scorer in the league, Kane.

I had suggested Puljujarvi and Nurse earlier, as Edmonton might be interested and they aren't giving up something already embedded on their team. Huge risk no matter what.

You are never going to get value for value, it'll have to be value for potential. Think Nieuwendyk in his prime for an unknown but intriguing prospect, Jarome Iginla. That is the ONLY way a trade is ever happening for Gaudreau (hopefully).

The is a building team people, JG would be the type of player the Flames should be acquiring not trading. He will get signed at a price this team can afford going forward. BT knows what that number is and I'm sure this is done following this WC tourney.

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Lol....well I did post that I was going to be silent, and I didn't want to argue about the issue since I'd likely be fighting a Massively losing battle.

Isn't your argument about "Expected Production vs Cap Hit?"

If so, then it's a perfectly valid argument and not one you would/should lose. For example, we all like Joe Colborne at about $1.5-mil but nothing more. He wanted more so we took the hard line stance against him. We made the right move to walk away from the money he wanted.

What if we trade Johnny for someone at an even higher cap hit? Well, that's the thing. It's not about cap hit alone. It's about the Expected Production vs Cap Hit ratio. If the new cap hit does not equate to a favorable ratio, then it's perfectly fine to suggest we trade him. Many will be on your side.

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Actually, I think you've got the short memory, and short temper.

 

I just finished saying for about three posts in a row that I didn't want to fight about it.  After being goaded into giving my input, you're the first one to try and turn this into another 15 pages of trade debate that Nobody except you wants to have.

 

I said "never Really won a championship".   Because you're talking about his freshman year.  And junior is junior. 

 

We could go on about it, but at what point do you ask yourself:  "How relevant is this to the debate?"

 

We're talking about his trade value, after all.  It doesn't exactly affect my arguement.

 

Or, better yet:  "How relevant is the debate"

 

Most importantly:  "Does anyone other than myself want to have this debate?"

 

Let.  It.  Die.

 

Since it's not a "Trade Johnny" thread, I was specifically commenting on your points about the player.  You don't want to start a debate about him, but you are making pretty bold statements.  

 

Feel free to comment on the player all you want, but expect to be called on it.  That's what this is all about.  Opinions.

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The is a building team people, JG would be the type of player the Flames should be acquiring not trading. He will get signed at a price this team can afford going forward. BT knows what that number is and I'm sure this is done following this WC tourney.

Almost certainly true, but not 100%.

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But asking 8.5 at this stage of negotiations seems high. But then, maybe they'd go down 1M?

 

I hate to say it, but if that's the price, I'd let him sit.

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I hate to say it, but if that's the price, I'd let him sit.

. Agree, if it comes down to that he'll be sitting for a few games at least, to see how the team does and who gets the most pressure to concede.

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. Agree, if it comes down to that he'll be sitting for a few games at least, to see how the team does and who gets the most pressure to concede.

 

Nobody wins by sitting out without a contract.  The Flames have him plying his trade on a best-on-best tourney, so he will come into camp at a higher level of readiness than every other player (except Frolik and Backlund).  Having him sit out is the worst decision possible.  Is an arbitrary "Gio Cap" worth taking those risks?

 

The rumoured numbers are just that.  Rumours.  If they aren't close to a long-term deal, then they will do a 4 year deal and pay him less than $7m.  Stupid, but that is the only other solution.  I prefer (and expect) a deal slightly north of $7m for 8 years.

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Suggesting the Flames will pay him more then other teams because he is small doesn't make any sense.

 

I think Gaudreau's value to Calgary is higher than his value league wide. I don't think any team in the league is going to pay him $8.5m. I think there are very few teams in the league that would pay him $7+m.

Between his contract ask and his size he doesn't have the trade value, to get the return that you would want from a player of his caliber. For example Gaudreau isn't getting near as much as a return in a trade as Tarasenko would garner.

I am Gaudreau fan, but size is still concern league wide, so is the fact that he seems to struggle on the road.

Exactly what I would have said

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Gaudreau's goal against Finland at the world cup showed his elite talent (incredible hand eye co-ordination) but also brought to my attention one of his glaring weaknesses. JG was caught behind the Finnish defenders with the play heading out. Luckily for him the Finnish defense messed up on clearing the puck out of their zone which created the goal.

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Nobody wins by sitting out without a contract.  The Flames have him plying his trade on a best-on-best tourney, so he will come into camp at a higher level of readiness than every other player (except Frolik and Backlund).  Having him sit out is the worst decision possible.  Is an arbitrary "Gio Cap" worth taking those risks?

 

The rumoured numbers are just that.  Rumours.  If they aren't close to a long-term deal, then they will do a 4 year deal and pay him less than $7m.  Stupid, but that is the only other solution.  I prefer (and expect) a deal slightly north of $7m for 8 years.

 

The sitting him comment was based on the rumour of $8.5 million and IF he would not be wiling to come down significantly. 

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Gaudreau's goal against Finland at the world cup showed his elite talent (incredible hand eye co-ordination) but also brought to my attention one of his glaring weaknesses. JG was caught behind the Finnish defenders with the play heading out. Luckily for him the Finnish defense messed up on clearing the puck out of their zone which created the goal.

 

I didn't see that being a issue.  If he had been a defenseman, there might be more to worry about.  But, overall I would expect him to be high when we have the puck.  The possession change and turnover happened quite quickly.  TBH, I have not seen him be so far out of the play to be able to get back down the ice.

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Exactly what I would have said

Keep dreaming. Someone will pay, look at all the stupid contracts out there. It all depends on Gaudreau.

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Nobody wins by sitting out without a contract.  The Flames have him plying his trade on a best-on-best tourney, so he will come into camp at a higher level of readiness than every other player (except Frolik and Backlund).  Having him sit out is the worst decision possible.  Is an arbitrary "Gio Cap" worth taking those risks?

 

The rumoured numbers are just that.  Rumours.  If they aren't close to a long-term deal, then they will do a 4 year deal and pay him less than $7m.  Stupid, but that is the only other solution.  I prefer (and expect) a deal slightly north of $7m for 8 years.

Agreed sitting him is instantly animosity build up. everyone can bend crap the way they want the comparable's clearly indicate over 7 million to 7.5 for 8 years for a this type of player. I get that he has not rights through arbitration but really is it worth risk. Negotiations like this are a different animal. If this club is not willing ti pay its star players than expect to be in the basement for a long time. Other clubs seem to manage fine with this practice, your not in ARZ any more.

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This is the wost possible time for trading Gaudreau. YOu only have 5 teams that could take his rumored 8 mill ask without sending salary back and you've got about a third of the league right now having about 2.5 mill of cap space or less. There are just too many teams that would be too limited by the cap to make a trade for Gaureau that it would limit the return on him by quite a bit or the Flames would be forced to take at least 1, maybe 2, bad contracts in order to offset the cap hit. 

 

I've said before I have zero issue with discussin trading of Gaudreau but doing it because he won't agree to a contract right now is the wrong move. You need to make that trade during the offseason and ideally before June 1 so you maximize the amount of teams you can negotiate with. Flames would be trading from a position of weakness which is never a good idea. I'm skeptical you would ever "win" a Gaudreau trade but I am pretty certain you woudln't win one now. 

 

I still don't really believe the over 8 mill ask and I think this is Gio all over again. I really don't see the Flames paying Gaudreau more than 7 or maybe 7.25. With no leverage are Gaudreau and his agent willing to sit? I see that as a terrible move that would not help Gaudreau at all so I think if a side is to cave it would be Gaudreau.

 

If they can't get a long term deal done I really don't thikn the idea of a 1 year deal for say 5million is the worst option in the world and I would do that before I did a 2 or 3 year deal. If Gaudreau thinks he is worth 8-8.5 mill and can go out and prove it next season then you pay him. 

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Nobody wins by sitting out without a contract.  The Flames have him plying his trade on a best-on-best tourney, so he will come into camp at a higher level of readiness than every other player (except Frolik and Backlund).  Having him sit out is the worst decision possible.  Is an arbitrary "Gio Cap" worth taking those risks?

 

The rumoured numbers are just that.  Rumours.  If they aren't close to a long-term deal, then they will do a 4 year deal and pay him less than $7m.  Stupid, but that is the only other solution.  I prefer (and expect) a deal slightly north of $7m for 8 years.

We literally heard the same rumors about gio, remember we heard he wanted 9m before he signed with us a the rate he got, the agent is going to highball the flames to get the flames the number they actually want, I think we can all agree on that.

 

 

This is the wost possible time for trading Gaudreau. YOu only have 5 teams that could take his rumored 8 mill ask without sending salary back and you've got about a third of the league right now having about 2.5 mill of cap space or less. There are just too many teams that would be too limited by the cap to make a trade for Gaureau that it would limit the return on him by quite a bit or the Flames would be forced to take at least 1, maybe 2, bad contracts in order to offset the cap hit. 

 

I've said before I have zero issue with discussin trading of Gaudreau but doing it because he won't agree to a contract right now is the wrong move. You need to make that trade during the offseason and ideally before June 1 so you maximize the amount of teams you can negotiate with. Flames would be trading from a position of weakness which is never a good idea. I'm skeptical you would ever "win" a Gaudreau trade but I am pretty certain you woudln't win one now. 

 

I still don't really believe the over 8 mill ask and I think this is Gio all over again. I really don't see the Flames paying Gaudreau more than 7 or maybe 7.25. With no leverage are Gaudreau and his agent willing to sit? I see that as a terrible move that would not help Gaudreau at all so I think if a side is to cave it would be Gaudreau.

You wouldnt win a gaudreau trade, or it would just be status quo would any player we are trading for be any different then what we got? I dont see what we are gaining if we traded for a jamie benn or someone along those lines, I dont see why we trade the player. 

 

As I just posted I think you are right about the gio situation, and I dont think you gain anything about sitting out.

 

Lets all take a look at the droiun situation to the south, he sat out for 2 months and didnt gain anything, yes the market for JH might be a little bigger but I dont think its going to do him any favors.

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Isn't your argument about "Expected Production vs Cap Hit?"

If so, then it's a perfectly valid argument and not one you would/should lose. For example, we all like Joe Colborne at about $1.5-mil but nothing more. He wanted more so we took the hard line stance against him. We made the right move to walk away from the money he wanted.

What if we trade Johnny for someone at an even higher cap hit? Well, that's the thing. It's not about cap hit alone. It's about the Expected Production vs Cap Hit ratio. If the new cap hit does not equate to a favorable ratio, then it's perfectly fine to suggest we trade him. Many will be on your side.

 

Well thanks Peeps :)

 

I think there is a real love for Gaudreau in this City.   And understandable love.

 

I really don't  expect a good outcome on here discussing a Gaudreau trade.   

 

If it were to Happen, however, I don't think it would take people long to start looking at the trade objectively (maybe a few days, weeks for some).    

 

I will admit to being loveless for individual players.   I don't expect others to be.   I don't expect to have a rational conversation about trading Gaudreau.   And, chances are, everything we're hearing right now about $8 million is just posturing anyway.

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Well thanks Peeps :)

I think there is a real love for Gaudreau in this City. And understandable love.

I really don't expect a good outcome on here discussing a Gaudreau trade.

If it were to Happen, however, I don't think it would take people long to start looking at the trade objectively (maybe a few days, weeks for some).

I will admit to being loveless for individual players. I don't expect others to be. I don't expect to have a rational conversation about trading Gaudreau. And, chances are, everything we're hearing right now about $8 million is just posturing anyway.

When is the last time you had a rational conversation? :)

I agree on the latter though. Gaudreau isn't getting 8.5. From anyone. It's a lot of noise for nothing.

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When is the last time you had a rational conversation? :)

I agree on the latter though. Gaudreau isn't getting 8.5. From anyone. It's a lot of noise for nothing.

I'd argue he's holding out to showcase himself for more.

If there were no "Showcase" tourney, he'd have been signed by now.

Good on him for it.

If we don't give him more than Gio, I'll be choked.

He's only getting better, apparently lol.

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Tonight the contract dollars didn't matter, what mattered was;

 

The absolute beauty of watching JG quarter back the power play. Dang I enjoyed that!!!

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