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Johnny 'Hockey' Gaudreau

  

16 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. How many points will Johnny Hockey score in his sophomore season?

    • 40-50
      1
    • 50-60
      0
    • 60-70
      2
    • 70-80
      7
    • 80-90
      4
    • 90-100
      1
    • 100+
      1


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6 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

It is loyalty most teams dont sign players higher then there captian or it can send a message to the captian as a slap in the face

 

I think if you went through the list you would find that many teams don't pay their captain the most:

ANA, ARI, BIS, BUF, COL, CBJ, EDM, MIN, MON, NSH....Shall I go on? 

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27 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

im just saying if it does it does but it can still come across to what i said

 

I get that, but let's face it, JH is the Flames best player and should be paid as such.  Much like Benn and Ekblad, you pay the stars.  If Monahan was the captain, I would still say JH gets more.  

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9 hours ago, Kulstad said:

Legitimate question: Has anyone other than me even mentioned the "Gio Cap"?  I mentioned it here as a possibility (link-poo).....

 

 

..... but has it been mentioned in the media anywhere at all (I truly don't know....haven't heard anyone say it, personally) ?

 

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Roger Millions has. Can't remember the timeline but I feel it was about a month ago he put it out on Twitter and also did a radio hit on the Fan where he said in his mind and his gut he felt the Flames were not going to pay Gaudreau more than Gio. He was very quick to say it was only his gut and sense of the situation but he did put it out there.

 

I'd have to go through alot of Twitter feed to find the quote though. 

 

2 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

If there is an unwritten rule that nobody can earn more than Giordano, this organization is not serious about winning.  

 

Or maybe we are trading Gio for Trouba and making Gaudreau the captain.  Problem solved.

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4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

This part of the article sums it up quite nicely...

 

        Carchidi also tweeted that, "Gaudreau says he hopes to play a lot of seasons in Calgary, but would love to play for Flyers at

        end of his career."

      

        Sure, it's probably just a star returning to his roots and telling the locals something they'd like to hear, but it's fun to think

        about none the less.

 

btw...   That was a good post...

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23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get that, but let's face it, JH is the Flames best player and should be paid as such.  Much like Benn and Ekblad, you pay the stars.  If Monahan was the captain, I would still say JH gets more.  

 

Absolutely not,

 

Gio is straight up our best player, far and away, no comparison.   He is, by some accounts, the best defenceman in the league.   By all accounts, top 3.

 

Gaudreau is a top 10 forward in the league (lower half of that 10).

 

Top 3 league defenceman is more valuable than a barely top 10 forward in the league, Every time, hands down, case closed.

 

 

With regards to Monahan, Monahan is Severely, Severely outperforming Gaudreau at the same age (21).

Actually, Monahan is outperforming Gaudreau even a year older (22).  Even offensively, without even considering the intangibles.

We have no way of knowing who our best forward will be this year.

Bennett is on track to be better than both of them, and Tkachuk has that potential too.

 

Just saying, Gaudreau is definitely not our best player, nor does he project to be our best player.   He MIGHT be our best player, someday, as might a handful of others.

 

 

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8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Absolutely not,

 

Gio is straight up our best player, far and away, no comparison.   He is, by some accounts, the best defenceman in the league.   By all accounts, top 3.

 

Gaudreau is a top 10 forward in the league (lower half of that 10).

 

Top 3 league defenceman is more valuable than a barely top 10 forward in the league, Every time, hands down, case closed.

 

 

With regards to Monahan, Monahan is Severely, Severely outperforming Gaudreau at the same age (21).

Actually, Monahan is outperforming Gaudreau even a year older (22).  Even offensively, without even considering the intangibles.

We have no way of knowing who our best forward will be this year.

Bennett is on track to be better than both of them, and Tkachuk has that potential too.

 

Just saying, Gaudreau is definitely not our best player, nor does he project to be our best player.   He MIGHT be our best player, someday, as might a handful of others.

 

 

I would actually agree with you when you consider everything overall.  However, for a lot of fans, and people here, the sunrises and sets on a player's point totals, and of course with that metric Gaudreau is tops.  Really I'm not too worried about it, and the only reason we're discussing it is JH's now 6 day TC hold-out.

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11 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Absolutely not,

 

Gio is straight up our best player, far and away, no comparison.   He is, by some accounts, the best defenceman in the league.   By all accounts, top 3.

 

Gaudreau is a top 10 forward in the league (lower half of that 10).

 

Top 3 league defenceman is more valuable than a barely top 10 forward in the league, Every time, hands down, case closed.

 

 

With regards to Monahan, Monahan is Severely, Severely outperforming Gaudreau at the same age (21).

Actually, Monahan is outperforming Gaudreau even a year older (22).  Even offensively, without even considering the intangibles.

We have no way of knowing who our best forward will be this year.

Bennett is on track to be better than both of them, and Tkachuk has that potential too.

 

Just saying, Gaudreau is definitely not our best player, nor does he project to be our best player.   He MIGHT be our best player, someday, as might a handful of others.

 

 

 

Before Monahan played with Gaudreau, he was okay.  Had a decent 1st season, protected as much as he could be.  

 

And, yet, somehow he is a better player than JH?  Monahan is a good solid player in his own right, but he has some warts to his game.  Not that he can't get better because he will.  JH has better stats across the board, whether it be possession or some of the fancy stats.  He QB's the PP.  His biggest weakness is in the D-zone, because he can't out-muscle a player for the puck; he can only strip a player of it.

 

Gio is right up there with Brodie for being the best defenseman on the team.  He has been the usual points leader on the backend.  But he is not the skater Brodie is.  And he can struggle defending at times.  He is not top 3 in the league.  He is top 10 most likely.  Of Canadian born players, he is top 6.

 

Whether you chose to ignore it, JH has elite scoring number for his first two years in the league.    

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29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Whether you chose to ignore it, JH has elite scoring number for his first two years in the league.    

 

You are arguing against statements that were never made (ie., Monahan is the better player).

 

Completely disagree on Gio...and I'm actually ok with trading him.   Not a Brodie fan, but if I was I'd be arguing that they're both better, and Hamilton may also have more potential.  But your statement above is by far the most misleading part.

 

Nobody who has watched the Flames, ever, is making an arguement as to whether Gaudreau is an elite scorer.  Absolutely nobody.    If you choose to accuse people of ignoring that obvious fact, you can, and you can start a whole arguement about it, with yourself.  But nobody else.  Nobody has said/written this.  Nobody thinks it.  There is absolutely no need to instigate an arguement about it.

 

What I am saying, is that while Gaudreau is Elite, he also entered the league much later than Monahan/Bennett, and probably Tkachuck too.   His "first two" years in the league Should, by rights, be better than theirs, and by rights, of course he is elite.     

 

Adjust for age, and Monahan/Bennett are Also elite (adjusted for age) and Well within range of comparison.   Tkachuck/Hamilton project to be as well.

 

So, there is nothing I just wrote that you don't already know.   We can debate a Monahan/Gaudreau age-adjusted comparison.  Sure.  But nobody here has time to make up arguements that never existed and carry on about them, like whether Gaudreau is an elite player.

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15 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

You are arguing against statements that were never made (ie., Monahan is the better player).

 

Completely disagree on Gio...and I'm actually ok with trading him.   Not a Brodie fan, but if I was I'd be arguing that they're both better, and Hamilton may also have more potential.  But your statement above is by far the most misleading part.

 

Nobody who has watched the Flames, ever, is making an arguement as to whether Gaudreau is an elite scorer.  Absolutely nobody.    If you choose to accuse people of ignoring that obvious fact, you can, and you can start a whole arguement about it, with yourself.  But nobody else.  Nobody has said/written this.  Nobody thinks it.  There is absolutely no need to instigate an arguement about it.

 

What I am saying, is that while Gaudreau is Elite, he also entered the league much later than Monahan/Bennett, and probably Tkachuck too.   His "first two" years in the league Should, by rights, be better than theirs, and by rights, of course he is elite.     

 

Adjust for age, and Monahan/Bennett are Also elite (adjusted for age) and Well within range of comparison.   Tkachuck/Hamilton project to be as well.

 

So, there is nothing I just wrote that you don't already know.   We can debate a Monahan/Gaudreau age-adjusted comparison.  Sure.  But nobody here has time to make up arguements that never existed and carry on about them, like whether Gaudreau is an elite player.

I'm not sure how you would make an age adjusted comparison ??? it would be fair to say there should be more maturity to JG's game however SM is quite mature and fundamentally sound for his age, thus why they play well together. Be thankful for the possibilities of where all this could go and quit these useless arguments.

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Actually, Monahan is outperforming Gaudreau even a year older (22).  Even offensively, without even considering the intangibles.

 

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

Whether you chose to ignore it, JH has elite scoring number for his first two years in the league.

The first quote is from your post.  How do you consider that to be misleading?

 

 

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18 hours ago, TheFan99 said:

Business side of pro sports is ugly. The only player on the flames that got what he wanted was Jarome. Ownership has always been tough on their players. (Macinnis , Neuiendyk, Fleury, Vernon, Loob) to name a few. It's beyond me.

 

You are in different world economically so brining up those examples is invalid. Flames paid top dollar to keep or bring in, Jarome, Regher, Phaneuf, Kipper Jbow, Gio and Monahan. Hardly a problem with paying their stars and that was even before the cap really kicked in. 

 

The days of paying whatever a star wants are gone, every GM has an obligation to make sure he is getting the best deal he can and its completely irresponaible of Treliving to say "oh Johnny you want 8 mill, ok here you go". Needs to be a fair market deal for both and thats Treliving's responsiblity under a cap system. Its not about Johnny proving himself. 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

You are in different world economically so brining up those examples is invalid. Flames paid top dollar to keep or bring in, Jarome, Regher, Phaneuf, Kipper Jbow, Gio and Monahan. Hardly a problem with paying their stars and that was even before the cap really kicked in. 

 

The days of paying whatever a star wants are gone, every GM has an obligation to make sure he is getting the best deal he can and its completely irresponaible of Treliving to say "oh Johnny you want 8 mill, ok here you go". Needs to be a fair market deal for both and thats Treliving's responsiblity under a cap system. Its not about Johnny proving himself. 

 

I don't think anyone here believes Johnny should get $8m.  But, if the top offer is $6.75 or less (which is not confirmed), then I have a problem with that.  $6.99m, $7m, $7.25 and you are still paying market value or less.  

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

The first quote is from your post.  How do you consider that to be misleading?

...  Well I thought it was pretty clear...but I don't even know what's going on with those quotes now?  What happened there??  (your last post).

p.s...even if they weren't jumbled...the first quote has almost no correlation with the second.  I am not even sure how to defend myself.

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5 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

...  Well I thought it was pretty clear...but I don't even know what's going on with those quotes now?  What happened there??  (your last post).

p.s...even if they weren't jumbled...the first quote has almost no correlation with the second.  I am not even sure how to defend myself.

 

The quote function works differently, it seems, based on how you do it.  If you hit the quote button for the whole post it seems to work as usual.  You can also quote a line by highlighting it and pressing the quote pop-up.

 

How do you define outperforming?  If you compare first two years, JH wins it.  If you compare age, then how do you expect to compare college and OHL?  Some places use NHLE and Guadreau was about 66 for his last year of college.  He was close to that in his first year.  

 

Anyway, I don't know why we are bothering with this argument unless you feel Monahan is a superior player, in which case I have presented all I am going to bother.

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't think anyone here believes Johnny should get $8m.  But, if the top offer is $6.75 or less (which is not confirmed), then I have a problem with that.  $6.99m, $7m, $7.25 and you are still paying market value or less.  

 

That's kind of what I think.  An offer that is in the market value range that covers a couple of UFA years, needs to start with a 7.  Using other Flames as comparable salaries doesn't make sense to me.  Good on BT for getting some value contracts but that doesn't mean he's going to get Johnny into one.  I'm fine with it dragging on this long but we're getting close to the season so time to get something done. 

 

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On a TSN report on some trade issues (i.e. Trouba) it was mentioned that there is zero discussion and progress on the Flames-Gaudreau front.  Stalemate with each waiting for the other to move.  Lots like this may extend for quite a while.  TC  Hold-out Day 7.... 

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Tarasenko is his comparable.

Army made a good signing with him last year I thought but many don't agree.

Johnny for 8yrs at $7.5 IS his market value, and he's more marketable than Tara at the end of the day.

If we don't wanna pay him that, heck, if I were him, I'd sit out and walk.

If you don't want to pay probably the league's biggest young star and very close to the face of the league, let him go then.

 

That's my sarcastic side. If it's truly a hold out, I'll be shocked.

I'm not concerned.

This late, and a player like him, it's a lightning bolt to head into the season, he isn't unfamiliar to his teammates.

Timing's fun, is that a thing?

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11 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

On a TSN report on some trade issues (i.e. Trouba) it was mentioned that there is zero discussion and progress on the Flames-Gaudreau front.  Stalemate with each waiting for the other to move.  Lots like this may extend for quite a while.  TC  Hold-out Day 7.... 

All the buzz is about Trouba (due to the trade demand) & some about Gaudreau.

The talking heads never speculate on Ristolainen who is also an unsigned RFA. Probably because he doesn't play for a Canadian based team so they figure the casual fan wouldn't know who he is. Forget Trouba, Risto is the RD teams should chase.

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21 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Tarasenko is his comparable.

Army made a good signing with him last year I thought but many don't agree.

Johnny for 8yrs at $7.5 IS his market value, and he's more marketable than Tara at the end of the day.

If we don't wanna pay him that, heck, if I were him, I'd sit out and walk.

If you don't want to pay probably the league's biggest young star and very close to the face of the league, let him go then.

 

That's my sarcastic side. If it's truly a hold out, I'll be shocked.

I'm not concerned.

This late, and a player like him, it's a lightning bolt to head into the season, he isn't unfamiliar to his teammates.

Timing's fun, is that a thing?

 

Tarasenko had more rights going into his negotiations. Also Tarasenko just won a vote by fans to be the face of EA's NHL17, so I would say he is plenty marketable. I don't see Tarasenko being at comparable at all. I think Tarasenko has much more value league wide than Gaudreau.

 

$7.5m might be his market value, I would argue that that is on the high side, but Gaudreau isn't on the market, he only gets to negotiate with one team, he can't even get an offer sheet.

 

I can foresee him signing a 4 year deal at a deal where the Flames want him. The one number you won't see is 5 years because that takes him to UFA status. 4 years keeps him as an RFA and gives him time to build his resume.

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33 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Tarasenko had more rights going into his negotiations. Also Tarasenko just won a vote by fans to be the face of EA's NHL17, so I would say he is plenty marketable. I don't see Tarasenko being at comparable at all. I think Tarasenko has much more value league wide than Gaudreau.

 

$7.5m might be his market value, I would argue that that is on the high side, but Gaudreau isn't on the market, he only gets to negotiate with one team, he can't even get an offer sheet.

 

I can foresee him signing a 4 year deal at a deal where the Flames want him. The one number you won't see is 5 years because that takes him to UFA status. 4 years keeps him as an RFA and gives him time to build his resume.

 

More Amercans would be familiar with Tarasenko from playing in the Central than a player in a Canadian market.  His drives to the net and highlight reel plays gets frequent air time on US sports channels.  So more people know of him.  Now.  The little guy turned heads in every competition he has played in.  

 

Johnny's agent would be taking a big risk on a 4 year deal.  Very little security.  And then the cycle of "banging away at at deal" starts all over again.  

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5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The quote function works differently, it seems, based on how you do it.  If you hit the quote button for the whole post it seems to work as usual.  You can also quote a line by highlighting it and pressing the quote pop-up.

 

sigh.... I wasn't asking how to use the quote function, I was asking why it wasn't working correctly for you in your post.

 

Anyway, we're not making headway here, agreed.

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23 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

sigh.... I wasn't asking how to use the quote function, I was asking why it wasn't working correctly for you in your post.

 

Anyway, we're not making headway here, agreed.

 

I was explaining the different effects you saw.  

 

On another note, the Flames are already in discussion with Elliott for an extension.

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