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Johnny 'Hockey' Gaudreau

  

16 members have voted

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  1. 1. How many points will Johnny Hockey score in his sophomore season?

    • 40-50
      1
    • 50-60
      0
    • 60-70
      2
    • 70-80
      7
    • 80-90
      4
    • 90-100
      1
    • 100+
      1


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Boomer was weighing in fairly hard on Gaudreau on NHL radio today, mentioning his agent is creating a real firestorm.

He went on to address the rumours of John wanting to play in Philly, NJ or Boston with noting those teams didn't want him for 3 and a half rounds when Calgary drafted him.

Then he stated, so what would your problem be with Calgary? Great city, great place to play hockey, great team they're trying to build there, it's a salary cap world.

Do 22-23 yr olds now think they can decide where they play? We have a draft and it's not going away.

 

I'm sharing the verbage not to say I totally agree, but to show that others are really starting to weigh in on it. My biggest fear is Gaudreau's agent is willing to muck up JG's image as more are bound to start weighing in.

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2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Boomer was weighing in fairly hard on Gaudreau on NHL radio today, mentioning his agent is creating a real firestorm.

He went on to address the rumours of John wanting to play in Philly, NJ or Boston with noting those teams didn't want him for 3 and a half rounds when Calgary drafted him.

Then he stated, so what would your problem be with Calgary? Great city, great place to play hockey, great team they're trying to build there, it's a salary cap world.

Do 22-23 yr olds now think they can decide where they play? We have a draft and it's not going away.

 

I'm sharing the verbage not to say I totally agree, but to show that others are really starting to weigh in on it. My biggest fear is Gaudreau's agent is willing to muck up JG's image as more are bound to start weighing in.

 

BOS was keen on drafting him, but they waited too long.  That was reported, so I'm not making it up.  

I can't see that his agent is doing anything that makes JH look bad.  It's his job to get a deal done, and probably is confused as to why BT isn't calling every day.  

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7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

BOS was keen on drafting him, but they waited too long.  That was reported, so I'm not making it up.  

I can't see that his agent is doing anything that makes JH look bad.  It's his job to get a deal done, and probably is confused as to why BT isn't calling every day.  

Because the longer it goes on, people aren't just going to hyperbole it's all the Flames fault. Not many are going to think 2 seasons is enough to break the bank in Calgary, so the rhetoric is not going to remain solely Calgary's blame.

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For the most part I think people tend to side with the player anyway and when you consider this is the more popular player since Iggy was in his prime it compounds it. The vast majority of fans I don't think care about numbers they just want to see him signed and could care less if it cost 8 million becuase they don't care nor understand the salary cap. That is not a slight to any fan, I just think most fans of any sport are fans because of the game, not the business of it. 

 

The only leverage Gross has is to hold Johnny out of games or maybe he puts enough heat on Treliving that he cracks. What Gross has put out there to me is an agent that is starting to feel a little desperate and is trying to use what little power he has to get Calgary to budge on their offer. 

 

I would recommend to anyone who cares about this negotiation to go to the fan website (I beleive the post their segments bur correct me if i'm wrong?) and listen to the chat they had with Friedman today. It was really good stuff, not only becuase Friedman shared some good insight but also I thought Warrner was great. Warrener talked about his holdout and how his agent at the time sold him on how great it was and how it was going to work and basically hinted that if he could do it all over again he never would have held out becuase the day you miss that paycheque is such a sad, sad day and at the end of the day wasn't worth it. It was a very intresting segment becuase they had both sides of the equation. 

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On 03/10/2016 at 4:31 PM, cross16 said:

That is not a slight to any fan, I just think most fans of any sport are fans because of the game, not the business of it. 

 

Great post, loved this one line.   Sometimes we forget that we're actually the weird ones.   There's a hockey component to all this to which is what most the fans love.

 

At the end of the day though, the business still needs to evaluate what Gaudreau's value really is.   He's sold a lot of jerseys.  More than any other player.   

 

BUT, he hasn't sold nearly as many jerseys, or tickets, as the 2004 Cup Run sold.   And he likely never will in his career (in a market the size of Calgary's).

 

In a market this size, no one player's popularity can do that.  So they will need to consider a lot of things when assessing what Gaudreau's value is, specifically, in this city.   And honestly, it can likely never be the same value here as it would be in some larger markets.   Some of which, Gaudreau may want to play in some day.  Lots of decisions to be made all around.   

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I think the pressure is also on Johnny to sign cause no contract no other team he makes no cash what so ever so how long and he hold out with no money

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4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Great post, loved this one line.   Sometimes we forget that we're actually the weird ones.   There's a hockey component to all this to which is what most the fans love.

 

At the end of the day though, the business still needs to evaluate what Gaudreau's value really is.   He's sold a lot of jerseys.  More than any other player.   

 

BUT, he hasn't sold nearly as many jerseys, or tickets, as the 2004 Cup Run sold.   And he likely never will in his career (in a market the size of Calgary's).

 

In a market this size, no one player's popularity can do that.  So they will need to consider a lot of things when assessing what Gaudreau's value is, specifically, in this city.   And honestly, it can likely never be the same value here as it would be in some larger markets.   Some of which, Gaudreau may want to play in some day.  Lots of decisions to be made all around.   

So trade him to the East when the time is right and another team has something the Flames need or value more than keeping him. For now let's just get him signed to play for us.

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37 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

So trade him to the East when the time is right and another team has something the Flames need or value more than keeping him. For now let's just get him signed to play for us.

 

If that time ever comes that we don't value JH as much as Iggy during his prime, then we can only hop Chia is a GM in the East or BOS still has Sweeney as the GM.  Trades of high-value players like that rarely return the value of the outgoing player.

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1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

If true, I am glad they are getting together instead of using the Red Phone.  Get away from public scrutiny and hammer out the deal.  Get Johnny back on a plane when you do, so he can ink the contract and we can all move on.  I don't care if he plays a single pre-season game, just get him signed already. 

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2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

That's great to hear.  There's still a week before the first game of the season so hopefully we get everything done before then.

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He is a one dimencial, cherry picking, Multi point player who can change a game @ any point.

 

5 mill for 5yrs sounds about right. 

Don't forget that Johnny scored 94 points in only 34 NHL games.

 

Very small sample size for a player of his caliber.

 

Choose whisley. :)

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By all accounts this should be done before the weekend.  My guess is 6.85x7, though just North of 7 won't shock me. 

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17 minutes ago, IamTheHockeyGod said:

He is a one dimencial, cherry picking, Multi point player who can change a game @ any point.

 

5 mill for 5yrs sounds about right. 

Don't forget that Johnny scored 94 points in only 34 NHL games.

 

Very small sample size for a player of his caliber.

 

Choose whisley. :)

 

1 minute ago, IamTheHockeyGod said:

Nope.

Don't buy his FA years.

 

 

Gaudreau has 143 points in 160 regular season games and 9 points in 11 playoff games.  He is clearly an offensive game changer, but he isn't a cherry picker or one dimensional.  I am not sure what you are referring to.  

 

Regardless 5 years is exactly the wrong term as it brings you straight to free agency.  If you really were dealing with a small sample size then the plan would be to go for a short term bridge deal that expires when he is an RFA.  But that isn't the case so you buy as many of his free agent years as you can without blowing the cap hit.  Which is why 7 vs 8 probably makes sense.  

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Would you not want to know what your getting? 

 

I take back cherry picker. 

 

By no means do the Flames want to sign a bridge deal. Johnny has asked for a lot of money and also turned down a lot of money.

 

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2 minutes ago, IamTheHockeyGod said:

Would you not want to know what your getting? 

 

I take back cherry picker. 

 

By no means do the Flames want to sign a bridge deal. Johnny has asked for a lot of money and also turned down a lot of money.

 

 

The Flames know what they are getting so they will go long term.  If they didn't they would go short term.  The key is they need to keep control of the contract.  If they go 4 years or less Gaudreau is an RFA at the end and the Flames retain rights.  If they go long term they own the contract for 7 or 8 years and keep Gaudreau for a good chunk of his prime years.  However, if you go 5-years Gaudreau is a free agent at the end of the contract.  He is 27 years old and you haven't bought any of the prime years and now he can now sign anywhere and if the Flames do keep him it is a very expensive contract.  

 

It is an academic debate because there is zero chance Treliving (or any GM) signs a 5-year deal that brings him to his first year of free agency.  If you wanted a shorter term deal 4 makes much more sense as he is still an RFA at the end.  But that is academic as well because both the GM and player have said they aren't interested in short term.  

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54 minutes ago, IamTheHockeyGod said:

He is a one dimencial, cherry picking, Multi point player who can change a game @ any point.

 

5 mill for 5yrs sounds about right. 

Don't forget that Johnny scored 94 points in only 34 NHL games.

 

Very small sample size for a player of his caliber.

 

Choose whisley. :)

 

Not sure if you have actually watched the player or not, since you seem to be making conflicting statements.  One dimensional would suggest that he only scores goals or passes to players that score.  He actually factors into at least a third of the goals scored directly, if not the majority indirectly.  He is typically the power play QB on the top unit.

In his first season, he was leading in takeaways.  He doesn't kill penalties, but most top scorers in the league don't.  

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11 hours ago, MAC331 said:

So trade him to the East when the time is right and another team has something the Flames need or value more than keeping him. For now let's just get him signed to play for us.

 

So I'm not a master of contracts.   If it's true that he's worth more later, then yes.  If he really forces that $8 million, you pay it, and you trade him.

 

But I doubt He would actually be more tradeable after signing an $8 million stinker.  Not my area.   

 

One thing is for sure:  He's not untradeable.

 

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45 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

So I'm not a master of contracts.   If it's true that he's worth more later, then yes.  If he really forces that $8 million, you pay it, and you trade him.

 

But I doubt He would actually be more tradeable after signing an $8 million stinker.  Not my area.   

 

One thing is for sure:  He's not untradeable.

 

 

Either is McDavid.  Imagine the return you would get for him.  A generational return.  

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36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Either is McDavid.  Imagine the return you would get for him.  A generational return.  

I disagree.

 

"Wayne Gretzky, the captain and the heart and soul of the dynastic Edmonton Oilers, was traded on Aug. 9, 1988, sent to the Los Angeles Kings along with center Mike Krushelnyski and defenseman Marty McSorley. Coming to the Oilers in return were center Jimmy Carson, first-round draft choice Martin Gelinas, first-round picks in 1989, 1991 and 1993, and $15 million." (https://www.nhl.com/news/wayne-gretzky-traded-to-kings-28-years-ago/c-281301452

Of those draft picks Edmonton picked Rucinsky, traded one to the Devils for Dman Corey Foster, and picked Nick Stajduhar who played two NHL games.

 

IMHO, I take Gretz all day long. I take McDavid all day long. And the team trading the best player - in my eyes - never gets an equal or greater return. It's almost like you'll get the talent divided by 3 or 4, meaning, you'll get 3 or 4 players with a combined perceived talent equal to a McDavid, Gretzky, or Gaudreau but that's like icing a line with 3-4 players operating at 1/3 or 1/4 the talent level. Let's not also discount the fact that talented players such as Gretz, McDavid, Crosby, etc make the players around them better... I'm not sure these lesser talents do the same. 

 

My $0.02 

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On the other hand...

 

The Quebec Nordiques build the foundation of a Stanley Cup winning team by trading Eric Lindros for 4 or 5 NHLers, a draft pick, and a ton of cash.  Peter Forsberg and Mike Ricci were part of the trade and they won the Stanley Cup just a couple years later.  Seems to me that the goalie they got in the trade ended up being traded for Patrick Roy. 

 

Edit: It was the draft pick (Jocelyn Thibault) who ended up being traded for Roy.  The goalie from the Lindros trade was Ron Hextall.  

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9 minutes ago, StarkRaving said:

On the other hand...

 

The Quebec Nordiques build the foundation of a Stanley Cup winning team by trading Eric Lindros for 4 or 5 NHLers, a draft pick, and a ton of cash.  Peter Forsberg and Mike Ricci were part of the trade and they won the Stanley Cup just a couple years later.  Seems to me that the goalie they got in the trade ended up being traded for Patrick Roy. 

 

Edit: It was the draft pick (Jocelyn Thibault) who ended up being traded for Roy.  The goalie from the Lindros trade was Ron Hextall.  

 

Totals man.  That, plus the Oilers won the Cup after trading Gretzky away.  Gretzky never won a Cup after he was traded from the Oilers.

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