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The_People1

Lance Armstrong

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Maybe it is a cop out to say that he was making an even playing field. But the fact is - it did. Maybe a hand full of guys were clean during those years. So why only vacate Armstrong's finishes on top of the Tour? Anybody think Zabel's 5 consecutive 2nd finishes were pure? If Armstrong doesn't think it was humanely possible to win the Tour 7 times in a row without doping, why isn't Zabel's finish vacated? They should vacate the entire tour from the mid 90s until probably a few years ago.

I think you highlight the importance of the Armstrong saga overall in a sense that Armstrong himself represents the entire sport of cycling to the world. It's almost to say that if Armstrong cheated, then cycling cheated.

Prior to Armstrong, cycling was a dying sport. It was a footnote in the Sports section of the newspaper. When Armstrong started to win consecutive titles though, people started to care about cycling again, especially in North America. People began having an emotional attachment to the sport.

Armstrong's story was especially important to the cancer surviving community. It gave cancer patients hope that they can beat cancer and achieve anything they want. Suddenly, it's not like that. Everyone close to the situation feels emotionally cheated.

Anyway, it's funny how everybody is chastising the man. I mean really, who gives a crap that he doped? Sure, cheating is deplorable, but in the end, who did he end up really hurting besides himself? Yeah, he injured people's sensibilities...but so what? He lied - we ALL lie. His lies were just on a grander scale, that's all.

I think as a society, we really need to reevaluate our priorities when we don't give a crap about corporate fraud on a massive scale and bank execs getting away with 250 million dollar fines when they're fraudulently absconding with billions. That's where people actually do get hurt.

This is a sports message board so everyone is talking sports. I'm sure if this was a stock market message board, everyone will be talking about corporate fraud and making a huge deal out of it.

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I think you highlight the importance of the Armstrong saga overall in a sense that Armstrong himself represents the entire sport of cycling to the world. It's almost to say that if Armstrong cheated, then cycling cheated.

Prior to Armstrong, cycling was a dying sport. It was a footnote in the Sports section of the newspaper. When Armstrong started to win consecutive titles though, people started to care about cycling again, especially in North America. People began having an emotional attachment to the sport.

Armstrong's story was especially important to the cancer surviving community. It gave cancer patients hope that they can beat cancer and achieve anything they want. Suddenly, it's not like that. Everyone close to the situation feels emotionally cheated.

This is a sports message board so everyone is talking sports. I'm sure if this was a stock market message board, everyone will be talking about corporate fraud and making a huge deal out of it.

Well, let's try and look at it from a more objective lens - people can still put a lot of faith in Armstrong. We aren't talking about some regular guy who ate wings, slammed back beers and was loading up on potato chips the night before stage 10 of the 1999 Tour De France. Notwithstanding that he doped, he was, and is, still an exceptionally gifted and disciplined athlete. That's what gets me about our perception of athletes who have been busted. Ben Johnson wasn't some schmuck off the street. Neither were Sosa, Bonds or McGwire. You can fill anyone of us up with goddam horse hormones, we still couldn't crack 10 seconds over a 100 meter track (let alone 9.79) or break through even a freaking Triple A baseball roster. Their achievements weren't NEARLY as fraudulent as most seem to think. It's almost as if people believe that if WE took steroids that all of a sudden WE would be just like Sidney Crosby or Colin Kaepernick or Hicham El Garouj. If that were the case, then yeah, chastise the hell out of him.

Anyway, perhaps I should have clarified my statement a bit more. I thought by using the word "society" it would be evident that I was critiquing the wider reaction to this story. Of course, we should be talking about this amongst ourselves on a sports message board. I have no problem with that. But look at the general attention that this story has gotten. Front page news on almost every media website for days. I mean people who couldn't give a crap about sports are losing their minds over it.

Yet, ZERO fanfare when PBS just released this documentary yesterday - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/untouchables/

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Anyway, perhaps I should have clarified my statement a bit more. I thought by using the word "society" it would be evident that I was critiquing the wider reaction to this story. Of course, we should be talking about this amongst ourselves on a sports message board. I have no problem with that. But look at the general attention that this story has gotten. Front page news on almost every media website for days. I mean people who couldn't give a crap about sports are losing their minds over it.

Yet, ZERO fanfare when PBS just released this documentary yesterday - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/untouchables/

This is equivalent to like that time we found out Sean Hill took steriods. Who freakin cares?? On the other hand, if Wayne Gretzky took steriods, EVERYONE cares. Lance Armstrong is to cycling and cancer like Wayne Gretzky is to hockey.

Also, Lance Armstrong is to cycling and cancer like Bernard Madoff is to the stock market. Your local banker is a nobody. Bernard Madoff is a somebody.

Maybe you are right though. Like Tony Montana said, "You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your @#$%' fingers and say, 'That's the bad guy.'"

We all "love it" when celebrities fall from grace. We shouldn't care but we do.

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This is equivalent to like that time we found out Sean Hill took steriods. Who freakin cares?? On the other hand, if Wayne Gretzky took steriods, EVERYONE cares. Lance Armstrong is to cycling and cancer like Wayne Gretzky is to hockey.

Also, Lance Armstrong is to cycling and cancer like Bernard Madoff is to the stock market. Your local banker is a nobody. Bernard Madoff is a somebody.

Maybe you are right though. Like Tony Montana said, "You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your @#$%' fingers and say, 'That's the bad guy.'"

We all "love it" when celebrities fall from grace. We shouldn't care but we do.

Lol, No Madoff went to prison because he mostly defrauded powerful people, not the average person. Had he done that, he'd still have all his yachts and mansions. Moreover, Madoff's fraud was not the reason the the markets crashed. There were no bailouts doled over what Madoff did. Anyway, this is all besides the point.

I do appreciate your comparison of Sean Hill to Wayne Gretzky and agree that it would have caused a different kind of ripple.

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I think you highlight the importance of the Armstrong saga overall in a sense that Armstrong himself represents the entire sport of cycling to the world. It's almost to say that if Armstrong cheated, then cycling cheated.

Prior to Armstrong, cycling was a dying sport. It was a footnote in the Sports section of the newspaper. When Armstrong started to win consecutive titles though, people started to care about cycling again, especially in North America. People began having an emotional attachment to the sport.

Armstrong's story was especially important to the cancer surviving community. It gave cancer patients hope that they can beat cancer and achieve anything they want. Suddenly, it's not like that. Everyone close to the situation feels emotionally cheated.

it still is important to the cancer surviving community. Lance Armstrong is both a cancer survivor/advocate AND a professional cyclist, the two are mutual exclusive form one another. If Lance Armstrong had beated cancer and just raced in the Tour he would still be a symbol of hope to the community. yes did he use his fame of winning to further the cause absolutley and is that dissapointing for sure it is. But I think it is very important to seperate the two and not belittle the fact that this guy still did beat the odds and still raced in the Tour de France and that alone is a symbol for people and there are still people that will look at his cancer story and find hope and insperation. The fact that he did what he dd does "ruin" i guess the fact that you can achieve whatever you want but his story still holds value that you CAN beat cancer...

For me too I don't think he is the biggest "cheater" of all time becuase I think he has a point cheating means he had a edge over the others which he did not. Everyone that he was beating was just as dirty but that doesn't change what he did. What is the most dissapointing for me, and for me what ruins his story the most, is the extent he went to damage people that wanted to tell the truth. That's says more that who he is as a person than the fact that he took the drugs.

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Im not as upset that he took steroids but what really turns me off is how many lives he ruined and bullied to hide his secret. I really hope he gets taken to the cleaners from everyone who is suing him now.

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