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Mark Giordano


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#1 Flames22

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:48 PM

Since the NHL lockout is in full swing, I'm tired of hearing "another chunk of games have been cancelled". That being said:

What do you guys think about moving Mark Giordano? Personally, I'm a huge fan of his. Offensive, yet defensive, good leader, decent cap hit, and somebody who gets powerplay time. All this being said, why would we want to move him? Would save a little bit of money, could bring back a decent center, and makes some room on the back end for the youngsters.

I would be dispointed if we did move him, however, for the right price I could see it happen.

Thoughts?

#2 Crzydrvr

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:29 PM

Any trade could be made for the right price, but it's not really beneficial to us to even consider this right now. Gio's contract is pretty bang-for-your-buck already, so that little bit in savings would just end up going to a similar caliber player with a bigger contract, because we have no youngsters ready to step up and take a top 4 position right now.

Seriously, our youngster depth on the backend is terrible. Beyond Brodie, the rest of our players are all projects. And Brodie has the highest upside, and that's as a solid number 3 (good, but not exceptional). If we trade Gio now, there's no way to compensate for the hole we'd create by going into the system for a replacement.

#3 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:33 PM

Since the NHL lockout is in full swing, I'm tired of hearing "another chunk of games have been cancelled". That being said:

What do you guys think about moving Mark Giordano? Personally, I'm a huge fan of his. Offensive, yet defensive, good leader, decent cap hit, and somebody who gets powerplay time. All this being said, why would we want to move him? Would save a little bit of money, could bring back a decent center, and makes some room on the back end for the youngsters.

I would be dispointed if we did move him, however, for the right price I could see it happen.

Thoughts?

Probably would get a better return on Giordano than Bouwmeester and according to most Flames fans, Bouwmeester is the biggest difference maker on the backend.

Giordano FOR Stastny

Any trade could be made for the right price, but it's not really beneficial to us to even consider this right now. Gio's contract is pretty bang-for-your-buck already, so that little bit in savings would just end up going to a similar caliber player with a bigger contract, because we have no youngsters ready to step up and take a top 4 position right now.

Seriously, our youngster depth on the backend is terrible. Beyond Brodie, the rest of our players are all projects. And Brodie has the highest upside, and that's as a solid number 3 (good, but not exceptional). If we trade Gio now, there's no way to compensate for the hole we'd create by going into the system for a replacement.

The Flames are heavier on left hand shot defencemen. If they are going to trade one of Bouwmeester or Giordano, Giordano makes more sense. He has more value and isn't leaned on as much.

#4 kehatch

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:00 PM

As far as I am concerned ANY player on the Flames roster is tradeable for the right price. However, it would take a big overpayment for me to want Gio moved.

We need more players like Gio. Not less. He has the right attitude, blend of physicality/offense/defense, good leadership qualities, is the right age, is on a solid contract, etc.

He is also coming off an underwhelming season offensively so I don't think you get full value for him in a trade.

If you got back a top line C with a good contract and the right attitude / fit then you might consider it. Or a AAA prospect if the season doesn't start out the way you want. But I don't see either of those coming back.

#5 JTech780

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:04 AM

I might be a bit biased here because Giordano is probably my favorite player on the Flames right now. He plays with heart and hustle, he has skill and can play in any situation.

I just don't see a benefit to trading him. IMO Giordano is the heart and soul of this right now, and if Iginla was to walk away and sign somewhere else at the end of his contract, Giordano would probably be the one to take over Iginla's captaincy.

#6 Carty

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:36 AM

Would save a little bit of money, could bring back a decent center, and makes some room on the back end for the youngsters.


Aside from the fact that even with Gio on the team the Flames D could still use more top 4 help (preferably top 2)... Then there are the reasons that others have already mentioned...

Another major factor would be that he has a NMC through to 2013-14 and a NTC until 2014-15...

While the team could really use a proven center for the top line, trying to get Gio to go for a trade to get one would be a bad idea... It would have the same kinds of problems as trying to trade JBo... Trading JBo for a center without getting a sufficient return on D included as well would only serve to further weaken a D that could already use help... Just think of how many times Kipper (also Karlsson and Irving) got pummeled with shots last year...

#7 Zirakzigil

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:17 PM

Id trade Gio before I trade Bouwmeester and there are a lot of reasons why, which have been previously debated. But the only reason I would trade him would be in a package for a legitamate top line center or a stud defenseman prospect.

#8 Kipper14

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:17 PM

No,god no!!! Is the lockout making people crazy? Trade Gio? He's a heart and soul guy for this team who can put up respectable points. If he weren't on the Flames, and were playing for a better team I think he could be in the Norris talks one day. Gio is hands down our best defenseman, and if he were EVER traded the return would have to be more than teams would be willing to pay, and having him is just fine with me!

#9 siliconscout

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:59 AM

HO
LEE
CRAP

Seriously. Gio is not going to net you a true #1 centre, at best you get a Joker level centre back and we let him walk.

Gio is probably our only dman who is good on both sides of the puck, I mean really.

Hell this makes as much sense as moving kipper for a centre, scratch that I think moving kipper actually makes MORE sense (yes that is how crazy the idea is).

#10 kehatch

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:42 PM

Id trade Gio before I trade Bouwmeester and there are a lot of reasons why, which have been previously debated. But the only reason I would trade him would be in a package for a legitamate top line center or a stud defenseman prospect.


Giordano is a very good to great 2-pairing D. Bouwmeester's play in Calgary has been as an mediocre to average top pairing D. He was a good top pairing D in Florida.

Bouwmeester is clearly a better player then Gio. He is better defensively. He is better offensively 5 on 5. Better on the break out. He is faster, more durable, players more minutes .... Gio is clearly more physical. I would also give Gio the edge on special teams. His shot blocking and physical play help on the PK, and he has been better on the PP then Bouwmeester the last three seasons. But overall Bouwmeester is a much more talented player. By a fair margin.

But Calgary's biggest problem has been their culture. They don't play hard consistently. And in terms of the types of players Calgary needs to fix that Gio fits the bill while Bouwmeester does not. In fact Gio is one of the few players on the team in a meaningful role that brings that. Based on that I don't think we can afford to trade him.

If we can get a true top C that is a good fit then perhaps. But do we really think a team is unloading that type of player for a second pairing D?

#11 Keyro

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:25 PM

If we can get a true top C that is a good fit then perhaps. But do we really think a team is unloading that type of player for a second pairing D?

Jack Johnson for Jeff Carter?
I'm sure most people would consider Johnson a 2nd pairing and when it was rumored Carter was available many posters were convinced he was the solution to the flames center problem.

#12 wally31

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:36 PM

Jack Johnson for Jeff Carter?
I'm sure most people would consider Johnson a 2nd pairing and when it was rumored Carter was available many posters were convinced he was the solution to the flames center problem.


Don't forget the 1st rounder.

#13 kehatch

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:48 PM

Jack Johnson for Jeff Carter?
I'm sure most people would consider Johnson a 2nd pairing and when it was rumored Carter was available many posters were convinced he was the solution to the flames center problem.


Do you really think the Blue Jackets would have traded Carter for Giordano? Johnson, despite his flaws, still has high trade value. And Carter being available at that price was based on exceptional circumstances.

And, as the poster above me said, LA also gave up a first rounder in the deal. Are you suggesting that Calgary give up Gio and a 1st for a potential 1st line C?

#14 Keyro

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:43 PM

Do you really think the Blue Jackets would have traded Carter for Giordano? Johnson, despite his flaws, still has high trade value. And Carter being available at that price was based on exceptional circumstances.

And, as the poster above me said, LA also gave up a first rounder in the deal. Are you suggesting that Calgary give up Gio and a 1st for a potential 1st line C?

Gio and Johnson have similar value, in fact I'd have to say Gio has more but some might debate that's my Flames bias.

I don't know how much you care about stats but here is a fairly critical article on Johnson.
http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/02/23/just-how-bad-is-jack-johnson/

If you look back to the Jeff Carter thread many posters said Johnsons value was equivalent to Brodies.
Gio and a first should have been well enough to get that deal done considering how low Carters value was at the time

I'd even go so far as to say over-payment on the Flames part.

Before you go and tell me how wrong I am remember:
-Carter was having injury problems throughout the year
-Had a really negative attitude about his surroundings in Columbus
-and was having a less than stellar year

#15 kehatch

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:20 AM

GMs overpay for potential all of the time. And Johnson was a 24-year old D-man a few years removed from being the 3-overall pick. He is putting up big minutes and points each season. Comparing Johnson's trade value to Giordano's is a bit of a stretch. Comparing it to Brodie's is a ridiculous leap.

Regardless, the point stands. You yourself described why Carter's value was lower then normal. Despite that low value it still cost Johnson AND a first to get him. So no, Giordano won't net you a legitimate top line C on his own.

#16 Keyro

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:19 AM

GMs overpay for potential all of the time. And Johnson was a 24-year old D-man a few years removed from being the 3-overall pick. He is putting up big minutes and points each season. Comparing Johnson's trade value to Giordano's is a bit of a stretch. Comparing it to Brodie's is a ridiculous leap.

Regardless, the point stands. You yourself described why Carter's value was lower then normal. Despite that low value it still cost Johnson AND a first to get him. So no, Giordano won't net you a legitimate top line C on his own.

Just being a third overall pick doesn't mean value. Cam Barker was picked third overall the year before and we all know how his career is going.
as far as point production is they are pretty close, Gio even outscored Johnson in the 2010-2011 season.
Johnson's defensive skills are similar to Babchuck IMO. Don't believe me then look at his +/-
The kings may not have scored in bunches over Johnsons tenure, but they were pretty defensively solid.

With the exception of Johnson.

Gio plus OUR first would have been well enough to get Carter
Probably not any other top line center, but Johnson would have gotten even less

#17 conundrumed

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:50 PM

Just being a third overall pick doesn't mean value. Cam Barker was picked third overall the year before and we all know how his career is going.
as far as point production is they are pretty close, Gio even outscored Johnson in the 2010-2011 season.
Johnson's defensive skills are similar to Babchuck IMO. Don't believe me then look at his +/-
The kings may not have scored in bunches over Johnsons tenure, but they were pretty defensively solid.

With the exception of Johnson.

Gio plus OUR first would have been well enough to get Carter
Probably not any other top line center, but Johnson would have gotten even less


But it still represents bandaids, rather than solutions.
Our 1st was turned into a 1st and 2nd, and we kept Gio.
Poor prospect pool sank us far enough, why continue on that path?
Big trades help the "we have to take a run at it" team, and we really weren't in that position.
LA dealt from a strength position, ours is LW...alone.

#18 Carty

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 06:08 PM

LA dealt from a strength position, ours is LW...alone.


That's just it... LW is the only position that we could deal from strength...

#19 Zirakzigil

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

Giordano is a very good to great 2-pairing D. Bouwmeester's play in Calgary has been as an mediocre to average top pairing D. He was a good top pairing D in Florida.

Bouwmeester is clearly a better player then Gio. He is better defensively. He is better offensively 5 on 5. Better on the break out. He is faster, more durable, players more minutes .... Gio is clearly more physical. I would also give Gio the edge on special teams. His shot blocking and physical play help on the PK, and he has been better on the PP then Bouwmeester the last three seasons. But overall Bouwmeester is a much more talented player. By a fair margin.

But Calgary's biggest problem has been their culture. They don't play hard consistently. And in terms of the types of players Calgary needs to fix that Gio fits the bill while Bouwmeester does not. In fact Gio is one of the few players on the team in a meaningful role that brings that. Based on that I don't think we can afford to trade him.

If we can get a true top C that is a good fit then perhaps. But do we really think a team is unloading that type of player for a second pairing D?

Where did I say that Gio was or wasnt a better player then Bouwmeester? You completely missed the boat on what I said. I never stated whether I thought Gio or Bouwmeester was better and I very clearly stated that I would move Gio in a package for a #1 center.

#20 kehatch

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:54 PM

Where did I say that Gio was or wasnt a better player then Bouwmeester? You completely missed the boat on what I said. I never stated whether I thought Gio or Bouwmeester was better and I very clearly stated that I would move Gio in a package for a #1 center.


I didn't miss the boat. You said you would move Gio before you moved Bouwmeester. My response is that although Bouwmeester is potentially a more skilled player I would personally move Bouwmeester before I moved Giordano because we need more players with Giordano's never lay down attitude.

I agree that any player is moveable. And if a legitimate 1C is being offered you have to consider any of our players or prospects. But I don't see a 1C being offered for Gio.