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Keys To Success


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#1 kehatch

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:17 AM

There has been huge disparity among the fan base in terms of how competitive the Flames will be this season. I think a big contributor to this disparity is that the Flames could be a good team IF a lot of things go right.

So what are your keys for the Flames to find success this season. My top 3 are:

1) Centre

The Flames let their only legitimate top 6C walk this off season. Now they are relying on a converted winger (Cammaller, Hudler), non-proven players arguably better off at wing (Backlund, Horak, Cervenka), or a guy who has been dreadful since joining the Flames (Stajan).

The Flames need two of those guys to step up and fill the top 2C slots in order to find success. Personally I think there are enough bullets in the gun to give them a legitimate chance of hitting the target.

2) The Kids

The Flames made some changes over the summer, but none that are likely to make them remarkably better or worse. The biggest roster change will be the introduction and continued progression of the Flames younger players. Some of them will have to make an impact for the Flames to have success.

Watch for Brodie, Baertschi, Horak, Backlund, and Cervenka in particular.

3) The Vets

This team is still built around Iggy and Kipper. Those players will have to fend off regression one more season for this team to find success. That is especially true of Kipper, a guy who has lacked season to season consistency over the latter part of his career.

The Flames will also rely on contributions from Cammalleri, Glencross, and Tanguay to find success.

Honorable Mentions

A couple of other keys:

Coaching: Will the introduction of Hartley move this team from underachieving to overachieving?

Rebounds: Can any of Bouwmeester, Stajan, Babchuk, Comeau, Sarich, and to some extent Giordano return to previous levels?

New Guys: Was Hudler's production a product of his line mates or will Feaster's prediction of further growth be true? Can Wideman produce on a non-power house team?

#2 mactt

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

So what are your keys for the Flames to find success this season.


What season?????

#3 Flyerfan52

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:08 PM

The others are good points but I'm still most worried about center.
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I have confidence Irving can be a good backup & slowly take over Kipper's spot.
Our wingers are still a strong point (& Baertschi hopefully makes them even better).
Our D is adequate.
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I like JBo more then most on this board but if we could get a 3/4 D & a 2C for him I'd be willing to gamble.
A 2C on most teams is probably a surer bet then our converted wingers & the others mentioned.
Gio, Wideman, Butler, Sarich & that 3/4 leaves a decent starting point & I do see Brodie adding to the mix. I wish we'd kept Hannan though as I like vet insurance on defense.

#4 mike_jones

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:43 PM

The others are good points but I'm still most worried about center.
___________________________________
I have confidence Irving can be a good backup & slowly take over Kipper's spot.
Our wingers are still a strong point (& Baertschi hopefully makes them even better).
Our D is adequate.
________________________________________
I like JBo more then most on this board but if we could get a 3/4 D & a 2C for him I'd be willing to gamble.
A 2C on most teams is probably a surer bet then our converted wingers & the others mentioned.
Gio, Wideman, Butler, Sarich & that 3/4 leaves a decent starting point & I do see Brodie adding to the mix. I wish we'd kept Hannan though as I like vet insurance on defense.


I'd prefer to ice the team as it stands. Cammi isn't no 1st line center, but he wasn't horrible when he was. Perhaps, Cervenka can fill the role? You don't really know until you see it on the ice. Backlund could come out of no where too. There is a lot more possibilities then you can ponder. Maybe even Stajan has a new regime under a more offensively minded coaching system?

As for Irving, he isn't looking very promising to say the least. Really shaky in net at the AHL level. Wish him all the best and all but with the depth in goaltending. maybe he could be included in a package deal. He isn't really living upto expectations.

The Flames d-line is pretty veteran if you ask me. Sarich is a veteran as they come, mind you Bouwmeester and Wideman, as well?

I'd sure like to give Bouwmeester a better opportunity as a #1 defenseman, to gain a better trade equivalency then that of a 3/4 D or #2C. Heck, Giordano would fetch a better return.

#5 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:02 PM

I try to visualize the end of the 2012-13 season with the Flames making the playoffs and then picturing what made that team successful.

If the Flames can get solid goaltending matched with a balanced defence, I could see the Flames sneaking in if they can get the forwards scoring by committee.

The thing with how I see the Flames making the playoffs is that does not describe a Hartley coached team, more of a Darryl Sutter team.

The only way that I see it possible for the Flames to get in Hartley style is if Cammalleri has a very successful transition to centre putting up at least 60 points and not being a liability while having great chemistry with Tanguay and Iginla. This would give the Flames one solid 1st line that Hartley can lean on for offence. This would trickle down with the Flames having a decent 2nd scoring line and a decent checking line.

There are two reasons why I highly doubt the above paragraph happens; I doubt that Cammalleri will have that successful a transition to centre. The other reason is the Flames will likely be put in the position where they have to take away from their current roster without adding something back for cap reasons ie Bouwmeester for a pick and prospect.

#6 DL44

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:49 PM

Trippy..

Part of what's helping my emotional detachment to the lockout has been not giving any thought to the status of my team since it started. - it's make up, strengths/weaknesses, etc..

So reading your post really started up some rusty gears for me (if that makes sense)..

other than that.. i have nothing to contribute to this thread... so just ignore. cheers!

#7 Flyerfan52

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

I'd sure like to give Bouwmeester a better opportunity as a #1 defenseman, to gain a better trade equivalency then that of a 3/4 D or #2C. Heck, Giordano would fetch a better return.

I said a 3/4 D AND a 2C not either/or. (The caps weren't meant as a shout as it's only a clarification.)

My reasoning is the 3/4 makes up some (not all) of our missing defense while the 2C on a few teams that are lucky enough to be deep @ center are better then many teams 1C.
A 2D for JBo would merely be a sideways move so unlikely & fully developed 1Cs rarely are available so I'm suggesting a hit @ D to give us a legit center rather then hoping 1 of our conversions or a salvage job (Stajan) pays off.

#8 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:11 PM

From what I've heard out of the CBA talks thus far is a cap of 70.2 million next year followed by a sudden drop the year after. They also are trying to find a way to give players close to equal value of their existing contracts. With those two ideas in mind, it sounds to me that there will be no roll back of existing cap hits of players contracts. That would mean that several players with already big cap hits would have even less value because teams are going to want to get as much bang for buck as possible.

I am stating this with the context of trading Bouwmeester. He would have even less value than he does now. There also sounded like there would be ways for teams to retain half of a traded players salary and or cap hit and that could be theoretically used to facilitate a trade of Bouwmeester but seeing how the Flames are close to the cap as it is, they wouldn't be able to take on big contracts unless a team is willing to take a huge amount of cap.

#9 Flyerfan52

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:56 PM

From what I've heard out of the CBA talks thus far is a cap of 70.2 million next year followed by a sudden drop the year after. They also are trying to find a way to give players close to equal value of their existing contracts. With those two ideas in mind, it sounds to me that there will be no roll back of existing cap hits of players contracts. That would mean that several players with already big cap hits would have even less value because teams are going to want to get as much bang for buck as possible.

I am stating this with the context of trading Bouwmeester. He would have even less value than he does now. There also sounded like there would be ways for teams to retain half of a traded players salary and or cap hit and that could be theoretically used to facilitate a trade of Bouwmeester but seeing how the Flames are close to the cap as it is, they wouldn't be able to take on big contracts unless a team is willing to take a huge amount of cap.

Depending how much the cap drops it would also make Horcoff & Hemsky even harder to trade.

A #2 defense @ 6.7 for 1 year still holds more value then a 5.0 2nd winger with a history of injuries. I think you are already resigned to being saddled with Horcoff for the duration.

Next year the 2 Alberta teams will carry about the same payroll for 14 players.
It'll be interesting how they use the remainder to fill out the ranks. Calgary doesn't have to worry about what it'll take to retain RNH & J Schultz the following season since they've seen the Eberle/Hall contracts & are part of that famed fabulous 5.
So Calgary can offer more term then Edmonton when it comes to UFAs which sounds attractive if cap/salaries dive in the next few years.

#10 happycat

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

What season?????


This!

#11 ifiwaschucknorris

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:12 AM

If there is a season the Flames playoff chances will depend on...

Finding a couple centers that can handle the load without looking out of place...TBH I'm not expecting a 70 pt season pace from our number 1 C. I just want him to be able to win face offs and not be a liability. This however has been done to death so I'll move on.

Iggy has to overcome his traditional slow start. In a way I wish he was playing in the KHL just so they could deal with his slow start and he would be on fire when he got here. With a condensed season we can't wait twenty games for Iggy to start consistently scoring.

Kipper needs to be Kipper. Hopefully he won't be to rusty. 'Nuff said.

Hartley's coaching style gets the players to buy in and play for him. I didn't mind Butters system and honestly I think it's better than Hartleys but if you can't get the players to buy in then your system doesn't work regardless of how good it is.

I don't see the development of our kids as essential to our playoff chances. We are deep enough at wing that if Baertschi struggles it won't hurt the big club too much. Also I don't see Horak cracking the top 2 and Brodie just needs to be decent to fill his role.

#12 Invin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:42 PM

I just had the misfortune of listening to Pierre Mcguire's take on how the Canadian teams would do if we were to have a shortened season. He said the Flames "didn't add enough firepower" and that Iggy and Kipper "weren't getting any younger" so we were going to have a bad year. No mention of Baertschi, Hudler, Wideman, or even a new coach. He then went on to say the Canucks would benefit from a shortened season because they have some older veteran players and the time to rest would help.

Go figure :lol:

#13 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:46 PM

I just had the misfortune of listening to Pierre Mcguire's take on how the Canadian teams would do if we were to have a shortened season. He said the Flames "didn't add enough firepower" and that Iggy and Kipper "weren't getting any younger" so we were going to have a bad year. No mention of Baertschi, Hudler, Wideman, or even a new coach. He then went on to say the Canucks would benefit from a shortened season because they have some older veteran players and the time to rest would help.

Go figure :lol:

You forgot to mention maguire picked the oilers as the team most improved.

#14 kehatch

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:48 PM

You forgot to mention maguire picked the oilers as the team most improved.


He also picked you last season to make the playoffs if I remember correctly. Whoops.

#15 Invin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:28 PM

I was only comparing the Flames and Canucks comments he made because of the odd double standard on veteran players.

The Oilers had darn well better be most improved after all the first round picks accumulated from years of basement dwelling :lol:

Maybe if the Flames fall to the bottom of the league for years the analysts will love us again. That's what matters, right? It's not where you finish in the standings, it's what the analysts say about your "potential".

#16 Carty

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

I just had the misfortune of listening to Pierre Mcguire's take on how the Canadian teams would do if we were to have a shortened season. He said the Flames "didn't add enough firepower" and that Iggy and Kipper "weren't getting any younger" so we were going to have a bad year. No mention of Baertschi, Hudler, Wideman, or even a new coach. He then went on to say the Canucks would benefit from a shortened season because they have some older veteran players and the time to rest would help.

Go figure :lol:


On occasion I have pondered as to whether Mcguire has brain damage, or if he was just simply born an idiot...





You forgot to mention maguire picked the oilers as the team most improved.

He also picked you last season to make the playoffs if I remember correctly. Whoops.


:lol:

#17 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:58 PM

He also picked you last season to make the playoffs if I remember correctly. Whoops.

Last year I picked the Oilers as still being a lottery team.

This year I see the Oilers at least challenging for a spot and can make it in of any playoff team from last year gets all of a sudden worse.

I was only comparing the Flames and Canucks comments he made because of the odd double standard on veteran players.

The Oilers had darn well better be most improved after all the first round picks accumulated from years of basement dwelling :lol:

Maybe if the Flames fall to the bottom of the league for years the analysts will love us again. That's what matters, right? It's not where you finish in the standings, it's what the analysts say about your "potential".

I think Maguire's take is that the Canucks could use the extra rest.

There are several teams that are not favorites among analysts despite a large amount of high picks ie Islanders, Columbus.

#18 Invin

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

I think Maguire's take is that the Canucks could use the extra rest.


Yeah, that deep run into the playoffs where they won 1 game probably took a lot out of them. The sisters need their beauty sleep :lol: