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jjgallow

Definition Of A First-Line Center

Attributes we want in our First-Line Center  

10 members have voted

  1. 1. When you think of our future first-line center, what attributes do they need to possess?

    • The cornerstone player we build our team around for the next decade
    • Our future captain
    • Over 6 feet
    • Over 200 lbs
    • Fast Skater
    • Great Playmaking
    • High Goal Scorer
    • Two-Way Player
    • Off-ice leader
    • Involved in Community
  2. 2. Who do you think they'll end up being?

    • Mark Jankowski
    • Nathan Mackinnon
    • Aleksander Barkov
    • Sean Monahan
      0
    • Elias Lindholm
    • Alexander Wennberg
      0
    • A current NHL veteran
    • A current NHL prospect
    • Mikael Backlund
      0
  3. 3. When?

    • This season
      0
    • This off-season
    • Next season
    • We already have them (Jankowski, or Backlund)
    • Never


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Right.

 

Some of you may have heard some talk about a kid named O'Reilly recently?

 

Let's cut to the chase:  There's a million threads on here about our need for a first-line center.

 

I'm just wondering what the consensus is on what we really mean when we say that?

 

Personally, I didn't ever see O'Reilly leading this team.  But maybe my expectations are different.

 

What are we really after, and how long are we going to have to wait?

 

There is always a center available for the right price.  But if you want a cornerstone player to lead your team for the next decade, for example, we kind of have to wait in queue.

 

Because, there's never more than about 10 of those players in the NHL, that are capable of leading their team to the Stanley cup.  And they typically last as first-line cornerstone centers for about 10 years.

 

In other words, there's only one, on average, available per year.

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The definition of a 1st line centre...

 

"He plays centre, on the 1st line."



The definition of a 1st line centre...

 

"He plays centre, on the 1st line."



The definition of a 1st line centre...

 

"He plays centre, on the 1st line."

 

But seriously, any of your options could fit the description. There isn't a single role for any player in this game. i think the only must have on your list is a fast skater. What possible benefit would you get from a slow player ?

 

Having all the attributes you listed would be great. If I had to pick just three, a Fast, High Goal Scoring, Two way player. Everything else is of limited to no value.



err, no idea why thats repeated 3 times....

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Just because a player might play centre on our 1st line, does not necessarily make them a 1st line centre Joker ultimately failed being that 1st line centre everyone wanted to peg him as and paid the price for not measuring up. Just because Stajan is playing our 1st line lately, does not make him suddenly a 1st line centre.


ROR would have been the same. He is a good 2nd line centre.


So a "1st line centre" is a natural centre who could play centre on just about any team's 1st line regularly. When I say any team it does not consider the 1st line centre already playing there.

 

Our prospects are just that. They aren't 1st line centres until they are already developed enough to fit that same description. Just because they have the upside to be a 1st line centre, still does not make them one.

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Ok, I get your point, the standard of the player is important. My comment was more toungue in cheek than serious.

 

What I would be looking for is an all round player. Someone with speed and strength, who wins the puck from the face off spot, from open play and from around the booards. Someone who can score and create goals and can play defensively. They should have good hockey sense / vision and understand whats going on around them.

 

I'm not worried about them being a leader on or off the ice, they certainly dont need to be a thug and attack people, they dont need to be a face in the community, though it would be nice to have the first and the third aspects - I have no respect for the second one.

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So a "1st line centre" is a natural centre who could play centre on just about any team's 1st line regularly. When I say any team it does not consider the 1st line centre already playing there.

 

I like it.

 

And by that definition, there's only a handful of them in existence right now.

 

Crosby,

Stamkos,

Tavares,

Staal,

Ribeiro,

Datsyuk,

Getzlaf,

Thornton?

Kadri?

Malkin,

Koivu?

Sedin?

Toews

Lecavalier?

 

I was being very generous with some of those.

 

I think that Jankowski has potential.  I would feel more comfortable of we had two Jankowski-types.

 

I suspect that we will as of this upcoming draft.

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puts up points and is not easily pushed around and 2 way player.

 

but this is a subjective topic, everyone and their dog will have a different answer. Also, what you want for a top line center (along with any other position for that matter) will depend on who you have them play with as well as the system they are playing.

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thanks for throwing me a bone, Carty ;)

 

No problem...   Barkov is no impawstor...   He could be the real deal...

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thanks for throwing me a bone, Carty ;)

 

 

No problem...   Barkov is no impawstor...   He could be the real deal...

 

You two are impawsible.

 

I wouldn't mind a kid like Monahan if he could up his +/- throughout his development.  Both him and Barkov have impressive numbers and size, Barkov of course filled out quite a bit more.

 

4. Aleksander Barkov 3 Tappara (FIN) Sep. 2/95 C L 6'2/205 50 21 26 47 +19

 

7. Sean Monahan 6 Ottawa (OHL) Oct. 12/94 C L 6'2/186 52 28 43 71 -14

 

However, I agree, Barkov would be a nice addition.  The Flames could always use a good Russian on our team. :lol:

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I wouldn't mind a kid like Monahan if he could up his +/- throughout his development.  Both him and Barkov have impressive numbers and size, Barkov of course filled out quite a bit more.

 

4. Aleksander Barkov 3 Tappara (FIN) Sep. 2/95 C L 6'2/205 50 21 26 47 +19

 

7. Sean Monahan 6 Ottawa (OHL) Oct. 12/94 C L 6'2/186 52 28 43 71 -14

 

However, I agree, Barkov would be a nice addition.  The Flames could always use a good Russian on our team. :lol:

 

Once again, he's Finnish. My buddy has an Asian mom, but does he consider himself Asian? Nope. He's mixed and by all means about as Canadian as you can get without having hockey as your favourite sport. Where you grow up does end up affecting what you identify yourself as nationally moreso than your birthright.

 

Monahan plays for the crappiest team in the OHL, a team with a -103 goal differential. Rather than a negative, that -14 stands as a testament to both his two-way play and how much he's relied upon in Ottawa. He may not be a PPG player ever in his NHL career, but I think a borderline 1st liner with great 2-way play while still notching around 60 points in his prime is a reasonable projection, and one that would make him a top pick in any draft. He's going to play in the NHL, it just remains to be seen how well he fares.

 

I like it.

 

And by that definition, there's only a handful of them in existence right now.

 

Crosby,

Stamkos,

Tavares,

Staal,

Ribeiro,

Datsyuk,

Getzlaf,

Thornton?

Kadri?

Malkin,

Koivu?

Sedin?

Toews

Lecavalier?

 

I was being very generous with some of those.

 

I think that Jankowski has potential.  I would feel more comfortable of we had two Jankowski-types.

 

I suspect that we will as of this upcoming draft.

 

Crosby

Stamkos

Datsyuk

Malkin

Tavares

H. Sedin

Thornton

Toews

Backstrom

E. Staal

Kopitar

Getzlaf

Zetterberg (W?)

Spezza

Giroux

 

You left some big names off of your list. There's IMO only 15 true-blue top-line centers in the NHL, and one of them's a winger. If the player is truly a top line forward, he should be a franchise-type forward. The guys who are borderline aren't "pure" in my mind and while I think that some of them are 1st liners, I don't think they will be the kind of guy who carries an offence by himself, and that's my definition of a top forward.

 

Borderline:

 

Couture

Pavelski

Lecavalier

B. Richards

M. Koivu

Krejci

Bergeron

Plekanec

M. Richards

Backes

Stastny

D. Roy

Ribeiro

 

Adding the "1st liners that aren't first liners"....we get 14, and 29 in total.

 

Knocking on the door (potentially top pivots or borderline 1st line pivots):

 

Duchene

Benn (W?)

Seguin

Kadri

Hodgson

Nugent-Hopkins

Galchenyuk

B. Schenn

C. Wilson

 

Seguin and Duchene are virtual locks to be top centers, Benn's a winger but still almost guaranteed to be a top forward. After that, any of the guys could develop into true blue guys. However, if we assume that only 2 or 3 of that group become true top pivots, that still leaves a little more than 20 first line centers in the NHL. And then assuming that 4 or 5 of the incoming draft prospects going up to 2015 are going to become 1st line centers, that's potentially 20+ or so available within 5 years, even taking into account the decline of older guys like Thornton. Our league is stacked with young talent right now.

 

Let's hope we can get one. I don't see a guy in the system who could become "the man" but the next few drafts will have plenty of opportunities to nab one depending on how low we pick.

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Once again, he's Finnish. My buddy has an Asian mom, but does he consider himself Asian? Nope. He's mixed and by all means about as Canadian as you can get without having hockey as your favourite sport. Where you grow up does end up affecting what you identify yourself as nationally moreso than your birthright.

 

His dad is Russian, he holds a Russian Citizenship.

 

Obama is half white / half black.  He considers himself black.  Your buddy would be considered Asian here in Richmond.

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Once again, he's Finnish. My buddy has an Asian mom, but does he consider himself Asian? Nope. He's mixed and by all means about as Canadian as you can get without having hockey as your favourite sport. Where you grow up does end up affecting what you identify yourself as nationally moreso than your birthright.

 

 

His dad is Russian, he holds a Russian Citizenship.

 

Obama is half white / half black.  He considers himself black.  Your buddy would be considered Asian here in Richmond.

 

What he said.

 

Your buddy is about the only person I have heard that would not consider himself Asian. Even as a halfer.

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Crosby

Stamkos

Datsyuk

Malkin

Tavares

H. Sedin

Thornton

Toews

Backstrom

E. Staal

Kopitar

Getzlaf

Zetterberg (W?)

Spezza

Giroux

 

You left some big names off of your list. There's IMO only 15 true-blue top-line centers in the NHL, and one of them's a winger. If the player is truly a top line forward, he should be a franchise-type forward. The guys who are borderline aren't "pure" in my mind and while I think that some of them are 1st liners, I don't think they will be the kind of guy who carries an offence by himself, and that's my definition of a top forward.

 

Thanks crzydrvr,

 

I think I missed two for sure:  Spezza and Kopitar.

 

I would say that Giroux and Zetterberg are both really wingers.

 

At this point, I would agree with you that we don't have a sure-fire first-line center in the system.

 

I hold out hope for Jankowski and I beleive we'll see him play for the Flames, but I felt that Feaster over-sold him to justify his eratic first-round trades and divert scrutiny.  Even if Jankowski really was "the best player in the draft", it's really counterpoductive to put that kind of pressure on a kid.  It was strictly said for the benefit of Feaster, rather than for Jankowski.

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His dad is Russian, he holds a Russian Citizenship.

 

Obama is half white / half black.  He considers himself black.  Your buddy would be considered Asian here in Richmond.

 

 

What he said.

 

Your buddy is about the only person I have heard that would not consider himself Asian. Even as a halfer.

 

Was he raised like a Russian, speaking Russian in his house all the time? Because IMO it's more about the situation a kid is exposed to that defines his identity and what he considers himself to be. My example had a guy with a Caucasian dad whose household tended to speak in English (since his dad can't speak Chinese, his mom spoke English in the household). End result being the most Canadian asian (half) that could possibly have existed in Alberta. I know BC has a big Asian culture, so perhaps if he lived there instead he would consider himself Asian. But he didn't, and thus he doesn't.

 

I can name a bunch of Asians I know who still consider themselves Asian. It's more how they were raised than where their parents came from. If Barkov considers himself Finnish, then he's Finnish. If he considers himself Russian, then I apologize for thinking he's Finnish due to his national team jersey and will concurrently call him Russian. But I don't know him personally so I can't attest to that anytime soon.

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Was he raised like a Russian, speaking Russian in his house all the time? Because IMO it's more about the situation a kid is exposed to that defines his identity and what he considers himself to be. My example had a guy with a Caucasian dad whose household tended to speak in English (since his dad can't speak Chinese, his mom spoke English in the household). End result being the most Canadian asian (half) that could possibly have existed in Alberta. I know BC has a big Asian culture, so perhaps if he lived there instead he would consider himself Asian. But he didn't, and thus he doesn't.

 

I can name a bunch of Asians I know who still consider themselves Asian. It's more how they were raised than where their parents came from. If Barkov considers himself Finnish, then he's Finnish. If he considers himself Russian, then I apologize for thinking he's Finnish due to his national team jersey and will concurrently call him Russian. But I don't know him personally so I can't attest to that anytime soon.

 

Brett Hull is Canadian.  He didn't make team Canada in the olympics, but made team USA. So did his current residence in the USA and doning of the American Jersey make him American?

 

My original point is that I said Barkov was Russian.  Obviously he is from his father.  If his mother is Finnish, then he is also Finnish.  He would be both, and on a government application, he would list all his citizenships.  I'm not wrong in saying he is Russian.

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Brett Hull is Canadian.  He didn't make team Canada in the olympics, but made team USA. So did his current residence in the USA and doning of the American Jersey make him American?

 

My original point is that I said Barkov was Russian.  Obviously he is from his father.  If his mother is Finnish, then he is also Finnish.  He would be both, and on a government application, he would list all his citizenships.  I'm not wrong in saying he is Russian.

 

Sorry, I just tend to keep 1 nationality for the players I keep track of, it's just easier for me because that way I don't have to remember up to 4 different countries for each player/prospect (and that has definitely happened before). I treat him as Finnish because he plays for Finland, just like I treat The Golden Brett like an American because he plays for America.

 

Speaking honestly, I could care less whether he's from Finland or Japan. It's just a way to organize players. If he can play he can play. I tend to get miffed because it feels weird for me to call him Russian when he appears to be Finnish for all intents and purposes. I consider myself Canadian, yet I have a passport that says "State of New York" right on that sucker, and until the government of USA comes calling to inquire about my citizenship status....but that passport doesn't stop me from calling myself Canadian.

 

I think of it as a Sundae float. That's a soft drink with ice cream on top, not ice cream with soda underneath. Same way I view Barkov; He's Finnish with a Russian heritage, if that comparison makes sense somewhat?

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Sorry, I just tend to keep 1 nationality for the players I keep track of, it's just easier for me because that way I don't have to remember up to 4 different countries for each player/prospect (and that has definitely happened before). I treat him as Finnish because he plays for Finland, just like I treat The Golden Brett like an American because he plays for America.

 

Speaking honestly, I could care less whether he's from Finland or Japan. It's just a way to organize players. If he can play he can play. I tend to get miffed because it feels weird for me to call him Russian when he appears to be Finnish for all intents and purposes. I consider myself Canadian, yet I have a passport that says "State of New York" right on that sucker, and until the government of USA comes calling to inquire about my citizenship status....but that passport doesn't stop me from calling myself Canadian.

 

I think of it as a Sundae float. That's a soft drink with ice cream on top, not ice cream with soda underneath. Same way I view Barkov; He's Finnish with a Russian heritage, if that comparison makes sense somewhat?

 

Fair enough.  I think we were arguing for the sake of arguing.  There isn't really much of a debate when both sides are in the right.  ^_^

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I strongly disagree

Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?

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Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?

 

Lol....technically, it's been an 18-year arguement (since we traded Niewendyk).

 

Remember the days when we had two first-line centers?   (Joe + Doug).   What a dillema...

 

I agree with the majority on the survey...I think the moment of truth may be this upcoming offseason.  But, there's also the possibility of this season's trade deadline.  

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Definition of encouraging:

 

 

 

While I love the vid, posting this in 2 threads is a little much. We should try to keep the boards clean, just a suggestion.

 

 

Janko is playing extremely well for his first year in the NCAA, especially coming from the level of high school hockey.  His hands are something special.  The Friars are not a high scoring team, but they have been on a role lately.  One would think he is right on track with development and will only improve from here.

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