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The_People1

Toronto Blue Jays

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I will never understand, nor condone, a fan throwing anything on the field of play and agree there is no place for that in sports. I don't like it and was a bit embrassed but at the end of the day you can't control what others do and I don't think its fair to hold the team accountable.  I've been at more then 1 Flames game where stuff was thrown on the ice so to suggest that its only Jays fans that are classless isn't fair. Flames fans have their black marks too, pretty much all fans in every market have had their bad moments.

 

To the game, what an incredible game. To go from that call, to the 4 Ranger erros and then Bautista absoultely crushing a ball, just wow. I've re-watched that inning probably 3 times now and it never gets old. Love them or hate them, you cannot deny that this year's versions of the Blue Jays is certainly VERY exciting.

 

Yes the got the call right but that i dont' think was the main complaint. The problem was the Ump called time and once you do how do you overtun that? What if a pitcher didn't hear time called and then threw a strike would you overturn that call becuase hey he got a strike? IN football should the ref allow a play to continue becuase a team didn't hear a time out called? That was my problem with the call not so much that it shoulnd't be a live ball or not, its that the Ump called time immediatley.

 

I do give that Ump alot of credit though, he buckeld down and called a great game and didn't shy away from it after the fact. He owned up and admittied his mistake and didn't hide from the explanation. I wish more leagues and more referees/Umps would hold themselves accountalbe like that.

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While it was definitely classless for some (a very small percentage) of fans to throw things on the field, that's not really what we should be talking about IMO. In many ways, I understand why it happened, and after a 23 year hiatus of playoff baseball it's not hard to understand. If the same situation were played out in the Dome, I'd like to say our fans would have more class, but we all know that's not the case.

 

But more to the point of our story, that was one of the most bizarre stretches of sport I have ever witnessed. Honestly, I have never seen such a strange string of events take place in a game. Just unreal.

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While it was definitely classless for some (a very small percentage) of fans to throw things on the field, that's not really what we should be talking about IMO. In many ways, I understand why it happened, and after a 23 year hiatus of playoff baseball it's not hard to understand. If the same situation were played out in the Dome, I'd like to say our fans would have more class, but we all know that's not the case.

 

But more to the point of our story, that was one of the most bizarre stretches of sport I have ever witnessed. Honestly, I have never seen such a strange string of events take place in a game. Just unreal.

So you are saying it was okay because those fans have gone without playoffs for so long? Tell that to the kid who got hit with the thrown beer can.. or tell it to the mother who was covering up her kids so they would not be hit.

 

How do you know that Calgary fans would do the same?

 

In Vancouver they rioted in the streets, burned cars.. In Calgary in 2004 they did none of those things, and they had a goal called back in game 6 which was more than enough reason to do things like that.. They didn't..

 

And I am really wondering why you would prefer we don't talk about it. This is the place that this incident should be talked about. Public forums on topic, disgusting behaviour... Why shouldn't we talk about it here?

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Reading comprehension at its finest:

 

So you are saying it was okay because those fans have gone without playoffs for so long? Tell that to the kid who got hit with the thrown beer can.. or tell it to the mother who was covering up her kids so they would not be hit.

 

See below where I don't condone the behavior, but simply state I understand why it happened:

 

In many ways, I understand why it happened, and after a 23 year hiatus of playoff baseball it's not hard to understand.

 

As for this gem:

 

How do you know that Calgary fans would do the same?

 

See:

 

I'm not standing up for the actions of some of the fans, but I think calling them out when it wasn't that long ago that we had a similar reaction to Bennett's no goal, and I was at that game and not impressed with the actions of not a few but many.  But forget about the stands, this season has been something else and I just hope it continues.  Now on to an ALCS rematch 30 years in the making.  After the last time these 2 played this was the playoff series that I wanted.  Two non-division teams that don't like each other should make for a good series.  

 

Calgary fans are just drunk hockey fans, like the rest of fans all over the world. If you think that they aren't capable of this sort of thing you're naïve.

 

As for this beauty:

 

In Vancouver they rioted in the streets, burned cars.. In Calgary in 2004 they did none of those things, and they had a goal called back in game 6 which was more than enough reason to do things like that.. They didn't..

 

 Nicely done! I always prefer to see a dig at the Canucks, even when it's a complete non-sequitur. Although, I do think that the comparison of throwing things on the field and burning the city is a little misplaced.

 

And, finally:

 

And I am really wondering why you would prefer we don't talk about it. This is the place that this incident should be talked about. Public forums on topic, disgusting behaviour... Why shouldn't we talk about it here?

 

What are you wondering about here? Obviously I'm an incognito employee of the Jays who is trying to save some face for the organization and the broader fan base as a whole. :rolleyes:

 

Why do I prefer you don't talk about it? Because "I" don't care about it. That's why I say:

 

While it was definitely classless for some (a very small percentage) of fans to throw things on the field, that's not really what we should be talking about IMO.

 

I just don't care what your opinion--or anyone else's for that matter--is on the Jays fans. I care more about the win and crazy baseball game.

 

If you want to talk about it, be my guest. I would rather hear analysis on the game, analysis on the upcoming series, etc.
 

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One detail i'd like to point out, at the Rodgers Centre they clearly allow the sale of cans of beer whereas at the dome you can only get beer in cups. So while it's very easy to say the Flames fans would never do that, the reality is they can't becuase you can't throw a cup of beer but you can throw a bottle/can. But as i've said i've been to more then one game where stuff was throw on the ice including a pair of shoes so I agree that to say that Flames fans never get that unruly is false.

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Mr. Deeds, I feel like you're being uncharacteristically obtuse.
 

 

So you are saying it was okay because those fans have gone without playoffs for so long? Tell that to the kid who got hit with the thrown beer can.. or tell it to the mother who was covering up her kids so they would not be hit.


You're right about this. It's never acceptable to throw objects onto the playing field. It's a pretty dangerous practice. That said, and I'm not trying to justify their behaviour, it has nothing to do with the playoff drought. It had everything to do with the call. Two points for your consideration:

 

1 - There is no colour commentator to cite Rule 6.03. The fans were really in the dark on the play.

2 - Presumably due to the subjective nature of baseball calls, there is no replay shown in the stadium.

 

An aside, and not that it's an appropriate rebuttal, but I wonder if a series clinching baseball game is an appropriate venue for a newborn. I digress.

 

 

 

How do you know that Calgary fans would do the same?

 

In Vancouver they rioted in the streets, burned cars.. In Calgary in 2004 they did none of those things, and they had a goal called back in game 6 which was more than enough reason to do things like that.. They didn't..

 

I've said this on the boards before. In fact, I started a thread about it, and I was lambasted for it. They did not have a goal called back in Game 6. There was no call at all. There was no celebration at ice level. There was no indication that the puck crossed the goal line. In fact, it probably didn't.

 

The play in the Jays game was nothing like that. Again, it's no justification for the ones that threw objects, but imagine the following scenario:

 

It's the quarter final. Game 7. 1989. Stan Smyl screams down the right wing. Takes the shot. Vernon makes a series saving glove save!

 

[nightmare]Then the ref blows the whistle... Mikey drops the puck handing it back... And Smyl tucks it in. The goal stands.[/nightmare]

 

Everyone in Canada knows that it was the right call. But the 50000 people at the Rogers Centre didn't know it at the time.

 

Furthermore, if you think there aren't a few idiotic Flames fans, I refer you to their Facebook page. Specifically, the time that they incorporated a pride flag into their logo in support of You Can Play.

 

These guys are much cooler:

 

https://www.facebook.com/torontostar/videos/10153713408776151/

 

Respectully, and with love.

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What got me the most on that play was that the Ump called time, which the Jays can argue caused them to stop playing at that moment because no Jays player made an attempt to retrieve the ball. It's the hockey equivalent of a player who scores a goal after the whistle is blown to stop play.

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I am not bashing the fans who did not participate in the throwing of items. I am not bashing The Blue Jays who in fact showed some class trying to simmer the fans down..

 

As far as Castles comments you can't say Flames Fans would do same. You can only speculate they might and you did this to justify your "you understand why the Blue Jays fans did this" comments.

 

And again, you did say we shouldn't talk about it.

 

that's not really what we should be talking about IMO.

 

As a mod you should know better than to suggest this. Personally(you used IMO) you don't have to read or reply if you don't want to talk about it.. do you....

 

My point is/was that this fan behaviour is not acceptable under any circumstances(time, situation or any reason), in any sporting event.

 

The emotion of this moment & the subsequent errors allowing the Jays to come back, was a part of what made this game something special. The fans throwing stuff will forever tarnish that accomplishment of the Blue Jays in this game. You can't separate the incident now.

 

Heartbreaker:

If the Jays baseball is classed as an adult venue then yes your "what was a mother doing there with her infant?" question is valid. However the kids weren't infants(babies), at least the ones I saw on the Fox feed. Young kids in the 7-12 year range are common at a family venue like a baseball game.

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As far as Castles comments you can't say Flames Fans would do same. You can only speculate they might and you did this to justify your "you understand why the Blue Jays fans did this" comments.

 

 

Deeds, in the playoffs when the Bennett goal was disallowed fans threw stuff on the ice so yes 100% Flames fans have done the same. Was it beer? No because its all sold in cups but there had to be a stoppage to clean up the ice after the goal was disallowed.

 

This is not a Toronto problem its a sports problem

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The last Flames game I attended, some idiots were seriously inebriated, had about 20 beer in front of them, and were yelling and giving everyone, including the players, the finger. They were in the front row against the glass. I was impressed that staff at the 'dome were polite to them, then brought in security when they refused to leave, and then brought in the police escorted them out. Contrast that with those fools in Ottawa who started fighting Toronto fans and fell over onto people below them. They could have seriously hurt someone, but nobody was ever charged. http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/brawl-between-leafs-fans-senators-fans-caught-on-video-1.2095646

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After all the drama of the season now the offseason is shaping up to be one of the most interesting in team history.  AA's decision to leave is not that shocking considering that once they started looking at guys like Ken Williams, Duquette, Dombrowski and other guys before settling on Shapiro to replace Beeston it was clear they wanted to follow the new wave of sports teams upper management (like the Flames hiring Burke as president), I didn't think AA would appreciate losing the autonomy that he had under Beeston, rightfully so i guess.  I don't disagree with the new model at all, but maybe feel that Alex could have been given consideration to move into Beeston's seat.  I could definitely see Shapiro taking both hats for the foreseeable future, I think Gibbons could also be on his way out which wouldn't really upset me at all.  But the player portion is also quite intriguing, the lineup could be completely back with exceptions that Donaldson will be getting paid significantly more and Navarro will likely head elsewhere, which could hurt in resigning Price or Estrada.  If both those guys leave the rotation sits with Stro, Dickey and likely Hutch, with no prospects standing out to make the team next year they may have to look at giving Sanchez another go as a starter.  If they can't bring back Price or Estrada, as much as I hate having to say it they may need to look towards moving Bautista or Encarnacion as both guys are on the final years of very valuable contracts and likely to be worth more while they head towards the twilights of their careers

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I was suprised for sure about AA leaving, but I honeslty can't say i'm overly dissapointing. I think AA is a good, but not great GM and quite frankily people are still too caught up in the run and arn't looking at the big picture The big picture for me is this is a club that didn't win a world series and now goes into next year with massive holes in their pitching staff and no propsects ready to fill in or relaly prospects you could trade for pitching because he gave them all away for 1 run. Now I think the Jays will be fine next year and still compete for the playoffs but IMO I dont' think a GM deserves a massive amount of credit becuase he was able to give the team 1 playoff run. The best GMs make a team competitive year after year and thats something that AA was certainly not able to do in his tenure. Still a good GM but I don't view him as irreplacable like some do and I personally like the model. I dion't think its every a bad thing when an organization brings in such a quality baseball man to run things and I don't think alex was ready at all for the job they've bought Shapiro in to do. I think Alex was just finding his grove as a GM so to tack on responsiblity such as renos at Rogers Centre or a new spring training facility would have been too much. I don't think thats what it came down to, I think it came down to different philosphies about the makeup of a franchise and Alex felt like he either coudln't, or woudln't, conform to what Shapiro wanted to do. That dissapointments me a bit becuase I think people could always be better and I personally think Shapiro could have helped AA become a great GM. As well, moving on but I dont' think its going to be that difficult to find a GM that could be equally or even more successfull then AA.

 

I've said it before, but I think Price is all but gone. They just can't commit those type of dollars IMO and still be able to field a competitive team. Donaldson will get a raise but is going nowhere as they have him under control for another 3 years so he is back as he isn't a free agent. I personally would bring Estrada back and hopefully a 2-3 year deal and then go shop for 2-3 bull pen arms and 1 more starter. I'm all for moving Sanchez to the rotation but not Osuna I think he stays as your closer.

 

Stroman

Estrada

Dickey

Sanchez

Hutch

FA acquisition (not high end probably a 2nd tier starter like Mike Leake/Doug Fister for example)

 

Osuna

Cecil

Lowe (hopefully can bring back)

Hendricks

Schultz/Tepera

 

is not a bad foundation for a pitching staff. Certainly good enough to be a playoff contender with the offence they have and Stroman really emerging as a potetnial Ace.

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I was searching for the tail end of the Jays game yesterday on TV.  I was scrolling through the guide looking for the 9th inning, I kept seeing a team celebrating like fools in the top corner picture in picture on several sports channels.  I was thinking to myself, why are they showing that ridiculous celebration from last year for?  Then it dawned on me that the celebration was live and the game was over.

They back into the playoffs losing 16 in the month of Sept, they pour champagne down their throats like drunken sailors.  48hrs later, they need their best in a one game elimination.  I just don’t get it.

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9 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I was searching for the tail end of the Jays game yesterday on TV.  I was scrolling through the guide looking for the 9th inning, I kept seeing a team celebrating like fools in the top corner picture in picture on several sports channels.  I was thinking to myself, why are they showing that ridiculous celebration from last year for?  Then it dawned on me that the celebration was live and the game was over.

They back into the playoffs losing 16 in the month of Sept, they pour champagne down their throats like drunken sailors.  48hrs later, they need their best in a one game elimination.  I just don’t get it.

 

I get not everyone likes it, but its very common across baseball and basically all teams do it. 

 

I think we are a bit "spoiled" as hockey fans in the sense where we think making the playoffs is easy because over half the league does. In baseball only 5 teams out of 15 in each league make the post season and only a recent change made it 5, before it was 4. Combine that with have double the lenght of the season and I so think celebrating making the playoffs in baseball is pretty appopriate, even though I do agree it gets a little over the top at times. 

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