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Only 3 goaltenders have ever won the cup as starter(hasek/khabibulin/niemi) and to my recollection I think only 5 gave ever played for it (add kipper and rask) and in every case the european was the better goalie.

Im not saying north americans suck..just that their style is no longer apt to carry that team. The better team will usually always win, my point was in regards to elevation of a team. On that entire list, I would not say any of them had the goaltender as the story of the series,except for Quick. and the one time a euro faced a north american, the euro outplayed him.

Theres a reason euro goalies are banned from the chl now, its because its recognized our goalies are not being developed. We dont create elite goaltenders anymore.

Even the olympics, our goalies used to strike fear..yes luongo won the gold, but it was in spite of him not because of him

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volcano.jpg

 

lol :)

 

I've already melted down a long time ago over this...I actually agree with you.  I don't care if it's pee wee hockey, if Ortio is getting minutes it's a good thing.   I don't believe for a second that this is because Laurent has moved up on their depth chart:  He was struggling in the ECHL.   

 

Ortio should dominate.  Perhaps after a brief loss of confidence, of course.   I guess he should have stayed in SM Liiga.  But this is far, far better than just watching the Heat play (we can all do that too).

 

I consider Ortio's development now stagnated, but not destroyed.   And I doubt the stint will be more than 15 games.   Big changes are still coming.

Thar she blows. :D

 

Actually, Cross is probably right.  He has a chance to play now, so give him some starts and bring him back to start for the Heat.  Brossoit could use an actual start too.  Might get put on in relief if Berra starts to falter in a game.

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**sigh** im not gonna rant about not playing ramo again..I get that you dont want to break up the string..but..having not won in anaheim since 2004..if I were hartley I would have thought it was the perfect time..but then again, theyre not supposed to be winning right now at all, so maybe its karma time and the team pulls off the win!..7-6 of course..lol

Hard to believe in the era of kipper..the last goalie to win there was Roman Turek..who got out shot 20-4 in the first period and got us to 1st intermission only down 1-0

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As I have said Mac will need to be lit up and lose big first before Ramo plays. I dont really want to lose like that though. I dont think it is fair to rot Ramo on the bench when we already know what we have in Big Rebound Mac. I guess as long as we are winning he plays.

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I'm calling shenanigans!

 

Mac just doesn't have the rebound control to be a starter. Let's see what Ramo can do!

I am all for giving Ramo a try but against SJ? Eeesh it aint going to be pretty for Mac or Ramo next game....

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I'm calling shenanigans!

 

Mac just doesn't have the rebound control to be a starter. Let's see what Ramo can do!

With a SA% of .863 last night and overall .891 that is not much better than we had last year at our worst.

15 goals against in 5 games.

GAA of 2.99

 

Wow, just wow.  Mind you, he would be an improvement to the Oils goaltending.

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I'm calling shenanigans!

 

Mac just doesn't have the rebound control to be a starter. Let's see what Ramo can do!

Agree, his SP and GAA are brutal, RAMO should have started, but at least HEARTY is out of excuses to not let RAMO get a start now, MAC lost so RAMO should be a go.

 

Sadly, poor RAMO gets the shaft again, having to start vs SJ, first Was now SJ, poor guy can't buy a break.

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.I get that you dont want to break up the string..but..having not won in anaheim since 2004..if I were hartley I would have thought it was the perfect time..

 

I thought so too...   It was already past time to give Ramo a shot...

 

I'm calling shenanigans!

 

Mac just doesn't have the rebound control to be a starter. Let's see what Ramo can do!

 

Definition of shenanigans:

 

Playing a goaltender that you acquired on waivers that has a one year contract with a cap hit of  $925 K while the goalie whose virtues were often touted by Feaster that has a two year contract with a cap hit  of $2.75 mil sits for seemingly no good reason...

 

 

I second your call of shenanigans...

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Ramo gets the next start in SJ.

 

Source: Peter Maher Fan 960

Rest of the lineup will be the same, including Jackman and Butler.

 

Good to hear that Ramo will get the start...   He needs to play more often to be able to show what he can bring...

 

Jackman will add more size on the line and that should be beneficial for playing the Sharks...   and I doubt that he will take a brain fart penalty again for a while now...

 

Have to wonder just how badly and how often Butler needs to screw up before he rides the pine though... 

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I'll even say this:   If Ramo gets blown away today, we can't really use that to evaluate him.

 

Part of the problem with having so many goalies in your system, is it's not long before they all start playing badly, and it becomes very difficult to separate the goalies who are truely bad from the goalies that just haven't seen any games.

 

And from there, it is easy to make poor decisions.  I've seen the Flames do this before, with far less goalies in the system.

 

I'm not a Ramo fan, but I don't think we can draw too many conclusions from tonight.

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I'll even say this:   If Ramo gets blown away today, we can't really use that to evaluate him.

 

Part of the problem with having so many goalies in your system, is it's not long before they all start playing badly, and it becomes very difficult to separate the goalies who are truely bad from the goalies that just haven't seen any games.

 

And from there, it is easy to make poor decisions.  I've seen the Flames do this before, with far less goalies in the system.

 

I'm not a Ramo fan, but I don't think we can draw too many conclusions from tonight.

Couldnt agree more. Lets see what he can do with a string of his own. Best thing hartley could do is tell him hes starting the next one no matter what.take the pressure off.

Heard an interesting discussion on 960 the other day. Dont be too surprised if by xmas its ramo and berra, with jmac either traded, playing in abbotsford or lost on waivers. Its apparent berra is being fast tracked for a call up and hes taking full advantage of it. When he us called up it wont be to sit on the pine.

The best thing for both is to duke it out on the big club, and when that happens I won't complain who earns the starts.

Moving jmac also would allow ortio and Brossoit to both get starts in abbotsford

Lets find out now when theres no fan expectations.

I wonder if the oilers would snag joey off waivers..that would worry me a bit.

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Couldnt agree more. Lets see what he can do with a string of his own. Best thing hartley could do is tell him hes starting the next one no matter what.take the pressure off.

Heard an interesting discussion on 960 the other day. Dont be too surprised if by xmas its ramo and berra, with jmac either traded, playing in abbotsford or lost on waivers. Its apparent berra is being fast tracked for a call up and hes taking full advantage of it. When he us called up it wont be to sit on the pine.

The best thing for both is to duke it out on the big club, and when that happens I won't complain who earns the starts.

Moving jmac also would allow ortio and Brossoit to both get starts in abbotsford

Lets find out now when theres no fan expectations.

I wonder if the oilers would snag joey off waivers..that would worry me a bit.

If true, this is very good news, but why the hell bother even signing Mac in the first place?  Should have just ran with Berra and Ramo from the start.  Makes more sense, get the current duo battling on the big club and get Ortio and Brossoit battling it out in Abby.  Every one is pushed at the right development levels and the fans win all around.

 

Let's face facts, Mac was not on a roll, he rode the team's roll. His GAA and Save % are absolutely horrible, that's a huge indication of his play and the team D bailing him out (less Butler of course).

 

But, then again, I'm a huge fan of when you decide to rebuild you do it 100% and not 1/2 checking from behind.  While the Vets are needed to some degree, I still think we have 1-2 too many holdovers taking playing time from some promising young talent stuck in Abby..But that's just my thinking, Hartley apparently disagrees and would rather play safe and keep more vets around, guess I have a more future approach to things than he has.

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If true, this is very good news, but why the hell bother even signing Mac in the first place?  Should have just ran with Berra and Ramo from the start.  Makes more sense, get the current duo battling on the big club and get Ortio and Brossoit battling it out in Abby.  Every one is pushed at the right development levels and the fans win all around.

 

Let's face facts, Mac was not on a roll, he rode the team's roll. His GAA and Save % are absolutely horrible, that's a huge indication of his play and the team D bailing him out (less Butler of course).

 

But, then again, I'm a huge fan of when you decide to rebuild you do it 100% and not 1/2 checking from behind.  While the Vets are needed to some degree, I still think we have 1-2 too many holdovers taking playing time from some promising young talent stuck in Abby..But that's just my thinking, Hartley apparently disagrees and would rather play safe and keep more vets around, guess I have a more future approach to things than he has.

Mac was a safe guard. Putting in two guys with almost no NHL experience is a very risky move imo not just for the results of the flames but for the development of a goalie. Having Mac lets you reduce the pressure on Ramo and Berra to perform right away and allows someone like Berra to adjust to the NA game.

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Mac was a safe guard. Putting in two guys with almost no NHL experience is a very risky move imo not just for the results of the flames but for the development of a goalie. Having Mac lets you reduce the pressure on Ramo and Berra to perform right away and allows someone like Berra to adjust to the NA game.

Agreed. When we signed him, we had no clue how those 2 would look in camp, Ortio was a bubble player who didnt really show up until prospects camp, and nobody expected brossoit to be this ahead of the curve at this stage. I think he should be rewarded by getting moved to a contending team who needs an able backup.

The next few games, assuming ramo gets a hard look will help them decide what to do with Jmac. If ramo is at least adequate, then the ramo/berra show should begin.. if he drops the ball big time then its his turn for an abbotsford conditioning stint and mcdonald stays as backup

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Let's face facts

 

Fact:  The Flames, on paper, went into this season as the worst team in the league.  Particularly on defense and in net.

 

Fact:   Defensively and goaltending-wise, we should not be surprised.

 

Fact:   Our recent offensive outbursts are unlikely to carry us past the first 15 games of the season.  

 

Fact:   The most exciting part of this year for the Flames is still probably going to be the NHL draft.

 

Fact:   None of Jmac, Ramo, or Berra, are likely to fix this.  Gillies could be part of the solution, in a few years.

 

If Ramo, or Berra, turns out to be an NHL star and proves all this wrong, great!

 

But I don't think we should get too excited, or dissapointed, in our goaltending this year.  It's not just the goaltending.

 

The offense is unsustainable, for starters.

 

The defense is incredibly weak.   Much of what I believe is being blamed on Jmac, is actually defense.  We've kept our shots against down (which is also unsustainable), but we have also had many ridiculous defensive breakdowns consistent with what you would expect of this team on paper.

 

If one of these three beat the odds and lead the Flames into the playoffs, awesome.

 

But the Flames hair-brained strategy of just acquiring lots and lots and lots of sub-par goaltenders and hoping to come up with a Tim Thomas, does not stand good odds.  It's a great strategy for developing effective 3rd and 4th lines.  It's a horrible strategy for your top line, or goaltending.   We have not actively developed a goalie in their early 20's in many years.  Gillies may be the first that's being developed properly, and that's because US College is keeping him completely separated from our disfunctional goalie development system.  That, more than talent, is what makes Gillies our brightest hope.

 

In the meantime, I don't think we should get too excited, or upset.  

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But the Flames hair-brained strategy of just acquiring lots and lots and lots of sub-par goaltenders and hoping to come up with a Tim Thomas, does not stand good odds.  It's a great strategy for developing effective 3rd and 4th lines.  It's a horrible strategy for your top line, or goaltending.   We have not actively developed a goalie in their early 20's in many years.  Gillies may be the first that's being developed properly, and that's because US College is keeping him completely separated from our disfunctional goalie development system.  That, more than talent, is what makes Gillies our brightest hope.

 

In the meantime, I don't think we should get too excited, or upset.  

I won't focus on your "facts" except the one stating the draft will be the most exciting part of the season.  That is just wrong.

Already we are seeing some exciting games, with sub-par goaltending.  We are missing 3 vets and still managing to win some games.

 

As far as acquiring lots of sub-par goaltending, I think you make statements without the benefit of hard evidence.  We have seen exactly one game of Ramo's and none of Berra or Ortio (or Brossoit). 

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