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I think next year we should proceed with Ramo and Ortio. It was proven this year we are NOT a playoff team. Last year we got lucky with Dallas, SJ, and LA playing like crap. Keeping Ramo gives us a known factor when utilized Properly and will allow BT to concentrate on strengthening the rest of our team to play in front of a better than average goalie.

Our biggest problem this year with the goal tending was HARTLEY.

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Agree the situation could go a number of ways. I would contract Ortio as one of the two. My other choice would be to trade for Elliott from STL maybe we could unload a few not in the go forward plan.

 

Yea, just commenting on the "asset" part.  We either sign him or lose him.

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I think he would make a great goalie coach, very fundamentally sound.

 

 

 

If Backstrom was interested in being a goalie coach, I would hope that the Flames gave that some serious consideration...   Sigalet needs to be replaced, and I have no doubt that Backstrom would be an upgrade...

 

THIS. 

 

If we keep Backstrom to teach, I'd be very VERY happy. He knows how to play, and if he can teach half of that skill he'd be an amazing goalie coach. 

I think next year we should proceed with Ramo and Ortio. It was proven this year we are NOT a playoff team. Last year we got lucky with Dallas, SJ, and LA playing like crap. Keeping Ramo gives us a known factor when utilized Properly and will allow BT to concentrate on strengthening the rest of our team to play in front of a better than average goalie.

Our biggest problem this year with the goal tending was HARTLEY.

 

Ramo uninjured? sure. But he may not play until a couple months into the season. And post-injury we have no idea what his play will be. 

 

Again, too much of a gamble. 

 

Our team is getting better, and will continue to do so. The biggest need we need to be back in the playoff race? An average goaltender. 

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Kipper had about an. 880 sv% and a losing record in San Jose.. I swear if that trade were to be suggested today people would be having strokes because, after all, save percentage says everything about the goalie and nothing about the team right?

The year before he was 0.915 with a GGA of 2.49. Sutter was familiar with what he was getting.

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The year before he was 0.915 with a GGA of 2.49. Sutter was familiar with what he was getting.

 

Exactly...   and Kipper had just turned 27 years old, not 38....

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The year before he was 0.915 with a GGA of 2.49. Sutter was familiar with what he was getting.

 i was looking at all 3 years ( and i was wrong , he was .889)  he had one decent year  sandwiched 2 bad ones.. i'm just pointing out people here  cant have it both ways, you cant look at one good year and say that's what you're getting and then discount another for having one bad year between many good ones and predict THAT'S the one we're getting 

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ok so lets break this down .. i think we all agree, no matter what you do..it's a gamble. we have no goalie in our system who's ready to become our ace long term starter. this is fact which again i dont think anybody disagrees, so..we..

 

1) Trade for a proven starter (lets say Bishop) to get him for next season , you're giving up high picks, prospects or both .  assuming he doesn't tank(which he very likely can, and then you've lost your assets for nothing except what you can recoup at the TDL for a diminished asset or let him walk in FA) you then have to sign him. Assuming you can, he's gonna get long term high dollars.  you've just further lessened your prospect pool

 

There is not one goalie in this league, you can say with 100% certainty will put up the same numbers here as he does with his current team..its impossible

 

2) you sign a Free agent -- just due to the way FA works, you will overpay in terms and dollars before you even know he can handle it here and play like you hope he can (see Hiller).. so worst case you have another Hiller on your hands and you better hope your #2 is good enough to carry it or were right back where we started

 

3) you throw a bunch of prospects at the wall and hope something sticks

 

4) you trade for a 1A/1B or up and comer-- again , you hope theyre ready, and again will likely cost you ..but if they don't pan out , you're stuck with your #2 again, but at least with this hopefully you have a smaller window to walk away

 

5) you do almost any of the above with the exception of 1, put them into a system where they can win their job, the onus is on grooming the right guy

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 i'm just pointing out people here  cant have it both ways

 

No, they can't...

 

we failed this year because we had no stability. Hiller played with a chip on his shoulder last year , he lost it this year . Ramo got a chip due to the demotion, perhaps even last year by not being the round 1 starter.. thing is , chips dont last .

 

and no doubt Backstrom has a chip on his shoulder due to his last couple of seasons of declining performance that resulted in 14 months on the bench or in the press box...   You just finished saying this morning that " thing is , chips dont last'...    But at the same time you are trying to convince everyone that Backstrom's chip will last...   and at 38 years old no less...

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Also, just to illustrate the need for goaltending: 

 

 
5-on-5 stats for Flames team as a whole: 
 
 
21st in Shots for/60 minutes (28.1; range is 23.5 to 32, average 28.8)
15th in Shots against/60 minutes (28.8; range is 26 to 32)
 
10th in the league in goals for  (3 behind Chicago)
30th (tied) for goals against 
 
4th in shooting percentage
30th in save percentage
 
 
We actually aren't giving up an unusual amount of shots. In fact, precisely average in the league. 
 
We are in fact shooting less than most teams in the league, but have very good scoring players on the team. 

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i was looking at all 3 years ( and i was wrong , he was .889) he had one decent year sandwiched 2 bad ones.. i'm just pointing out people here cant have it both ways, you cant look at one good year and say that's what you're getting and then discount another for having one bad year between many good ones and predict THAT'S the one we're getting

He was also a two time AHL all star, represented Finland at the world juniors, top goalie in the Finish elite league and played very well at the world championships helping Finland win a silver. There was actually more evidence he was a good goalie they needed a shot than there was that he was a nobody. The concept that kipper was some unknown or came out of nowhere is false. He was a good goalie who needed a shot and the flames gave it to him and that was actually a very popular opinion around here when he was acquired. No one predicted vezina but there was definetly excitement that the flames had acquired someone with some good upside.

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No, they can't...

 

 

and no doubt Backstrom has a chip on his shoulder due to his last couple of seasons of declining performance that resulted in 14 months on the bench or in the press box...   You just finished saying this morning that " thing is , chips dont last'...    But at the same time you are trying to convince everyone that Backstrom's chip will last...   and at 38 years old no less...

for  one season , Yes!  Just like Hiller

He was also a two time AHL all star, represented Finland at the world juniors, top goalie in the Finish elite league and played very well at the world championships helping Finland win a silver. There was actually more evidence he was a good goalie they needed a shot than there was that he was a nobody. The concept that kipper was some unknown or came out of nowhere is false. He was a good goalie who needed a shot and the flames gave it to him and that was actually a very popular opinion around here when he was acquired. No one predicted vezina but there was definetly excitement that the flames had acquired someone with some good upside.

right .. but my point wasnt that we should never have traded for Kipper.. it actually illustrates my desire to get another guy that needs a shot. Im not in any way trying to say we dont need to go get someone.. we do , and Kipper is a great example of what kind of guy to get . But.. it gets used to death in here that if we mention someone who has a sv% under 920 he's "not nhl caliber".. well.. Kipper was an .889 when we got him . and look how that turned out .

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So a summary of the last two games.: 

 

Hartley: "Ok Ortio watch this..."

 

Backstrom plays. 

 

Hartley: "And that's how you play like a future starter."

 

Hiller plays. 

 

Hartley: "And that's how you DON"T play. Got it?"

 

Ortio: "Got it boss."

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So a summary of the last two games.: 

 

Hartley: "Ok Ortio watch this..."

 

Backstrom plays. 

 

Hartley: "And that's how you play like a future starter."

 

Hiller plays. 

 

Hartley: "And that's how you DON"T play. Got it?"

 

Ortio: "Got it boss."

Hartley: "Now watch what not to do for the rest of the year, I've got some dmen to focus on". lol

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Hartley: "Now watch what not to do for the rest of the year, I've got some dmen to focus on". lol

 

After Thursday's game....your "joke" is becoming reality.

 

Auston Matthews here we come

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After Thursday's game....your "joke" is becoming reality.

Auston Matthews here we come

Yep..Leafs are on a run..Oilers looking good..I think we finish in that 3-5 slot and lottery puts us in:)

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After Thursday's game....your "joke" is becoming reality.

 

Auston Matthews here we come

Would Matthews really be the player the Flames want or need ? Given our own situation of already having a young talent core, should we not be seeking complimentary pieces ? I think we still need some skilled size in order to compete in this Western Conference and be true competitors annually. IF BT is keeping his eye on the prize, we should be prioritize Laine, Puljujarvi, Tkachuk or even another defenseman in Chychrun. We don't have a defined answer for a 2nd line LW and we definitely need to shore up our RW options for the top two lines. Should our place dictate taking a really good defenseman we should do it IMO. Knowing what we have from the draft will allow BT to target the other needs by way of trades.

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Would Matthews really be the player the Flames want or need ? Given our own situation of already having a young talent core, should we not be seeking complimentary pieces ? I think we still need some skilled size in order to compete in this Western Conference and be true competitors annually. IF BT is keeping his eye on the prize, we should be prioritize Laine, Puljujarvi, Tkachuk or even another defenseman in Chychrun. We don't have a defined answer for a 2nd line LW and we definitely need to shore up our RW options for the top two lines. Should our place dictate taking a really good defenseman we should do it IMO. Knowing what we have from the draft will allow BT to target the other needs by way of trades.

Agreed..anywhere in the top 4 or 5 will be a great player..but if we slot 1St pick overall we gotta take Matthews

Personally I'd be overjoyed to "settle" for one of the Finns

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Agreed..anywhere in the top 4 or 5 will be a great player..but if we slot 1St pick overall we gotta take Matthews

Personally I'd be overjoyed to "settle" for one of the Finns

We need a forward before another DMan, Under no circumstance do we draft a dman unless it is to trade for what we require at forward. The coilers will tie up last spot once again we should be some where from 2-5 in the draft from  which we can grab a forward hopefully a RW to fill that void.

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So, my bad, sorry...... I suppose I started this, but it's the goaltending forum.

 

 

Going to the blackhawks game.....hoping for an Ortio shutout.....

 

Hey....it could happen, lol!

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So, my bad, sorry...... I suppose I started this, but it's the goaltending forum.

 

 

Going to the blackhawks game.....hoping for an Ortio shutout.....

 

Hey....it could happen, lol!

Correct we got off track...................the goalie search continues.

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Correct we got off track...................the goalie search continues.

 

You ....would surely hope, right about now, that Hiller and Backstrom are ruled out?

 

After last night's epic performance, combined with his age, and Hiller's performance before that...

 

 

Again, I apologize for bringing up Matthews...I was just searching for an explanation to Hartley's decisions.

 

So...Backstrom.....   coaching staff?   yes?

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You ....would surely hope, right about now, that Hiller and Backstrom are ruled out?

 

After last night's epic performance, combined with his age, and Hiller's performance before that...

 

 

Again, I apologize for bringing up Matthews...I was just searching for an explanation to Hartley's decisions.

 

So...Backstrom.....   coaching staff?   yes?

I find myself as a fan (lately) wanting them to play well and try to win the game but not totally upset by these losses as they could help a better draft position.

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Would Matthews really be the player the Flames want or need ? Given our own situation of already having a young talent core, should we not be seeking complimentary pieces ? I think we still need some skilled size in order to compete in this Western Conference and be true competitors annually. IF BT is keeping his eye on the prize, we should be prioritize Laine, Puljujarvi, Tkachuk or even another defenseman in Chychrun. We don't have a defined answer for a 2nd line LW and we definitely need to shore up our RW options for the top two lines. Should our place dictate taking a really good defenseman we should do it IMO. Knowing what we have from the draft will allow BT to target the other needs by way of trades.

Yes Matthews is listed as both a center and a RW.

Matthews would also already ranked 3rd pick overall(last years draft) had he been born 2 days earlier.

He is clearly right now the BPA this coming draft.

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I would like to mention that we were told with our acquisition of Hamilton, that our D was on paper, looking to be one of the strongest in the NHL. ( the keywords on paper and looking should be in italics).

 

 

So how did we end up with the worst defensive team in NHL?

3b3027766ace2e85c07a6463de502d57.png

 

Does this point the big finger directly at our Goaltenders and Goaltending coaches?

f03c5b3433d39342e1be25c22d664fad.png

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I would like to mention that we were told with our acquisition of Hamilton, that our D was on paper, looking to be one of the strongest in the NHL. ( the keywords on paper and looking should be in italics).

 

 

So how did we end up with the worst defensive team in NHL?

3b3027766ace2e85c07a6463de502d57.png

 

Does this point the big finger directly at our Goaltenders and Goaltending coaches?

f03c5b3433d39342e1be25c22d664fad.png

 

1st, people over expected on how long it would take for Hamilton to assimilate into our system.. hes just in the last quarter started to show what he can really do.. same convo when JB came here, took a year for him to look good

2nd, Gio's injury and VERY slow start

3rd Brodie's time away / injury

4th- to a lesser degree Wideman's suspension , but that may turn out to be a blessing cuz we were forced to see what NAk and Wotherspoon can do 

 

yes, Hiller was not the same ... and i 100% agree some blame goes more to the goalie coach

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