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NHL quality goalies don't let in bad goals at the frequency Berra does. I will agree Ramo is an NHL calibre tender, although not sure how good he is/will be, but not Berra. As has mentioned before Berra is 27 so not sure why we should assume he will only get better. I agree with Kehatch and I think the flames should move on from him. Let him go to FA, very unlikely he gets any offers, and if you can't upgrade then you can always sign him later.

Perhaps you dont remember mike Vernon. The guy would allow one softie per game as a rule, hence why he didnt have many shutouts.Patrick roy allowed them from behind the opposition net on occasion.Luongo cant win the big one because bad goals is what he does best.

A 27 yr old goaltender is the equivalent of a 22yr old forward. .aka just coming into their prime. Its also the same age mikka kiprusoff was when he came to calgary. He was just coming into his prime

28-34 kipper was pretty memorable.

Not saying this kid is the same caliber, just saying ....once again...our bar is a little high thanks to kipper.some people wont be happy until we put a nightly game stealer in there and its not a realistic expectation. Hes come 500 miles from his early season form to now in his adaption to the north American game and was dominant where he came from.to expect that progression to continue is not a stretch

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Perhaps you dont remember mike Vernon. The guy would allow one softie per game as a rule, hence why he didnt have many shutouts.Patrick roy allowed them from behind the opposition net on occasion.Luongo cant win the big one because bad goals is what he does best.

A 27 yr old goaltender is the equivalent of a 22yr old forward. .aka just coming into their prime. Its also the same age mikka kiprusoff was when he came to calgary. He was just coming into his prime

28-34 kipper was pretty memorable.

Not saying this kid is the same caliber, just saying ....once again...our bar is a little high thanks to kipper.some people wont be happy until we put a nightly game stealer in there and its not a realistic expectation. Hes come 500 miles from his early season form to now in his adaption to the north American game and was dominant where he came from.to expect that progression to continue is not a stretch

Big difference in kipper was he proved he could play in the NHL, he just needed someone to stick with him. Berra is 27 and still hasn't proven he can play in the NHL so it's not the same example at all. I get that 27 is a prime age for a goalie but prime indicates they are at their best not a starting point and needing to improve. And Berra was not dominant where he came from, in many seasons he wasn't even the best goalie.

I actually don't have that expectation at all. My expectation of a goalie at a minimum is give your team a chance to win every night, and a starter should steak games for you now and then. Berra does not give his team a chance to win and on more then one occasion has cost his team the game. That's an unacceptable standard for an NHL goalie.

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Maybe just me, but I was really impressed with Ortio.

I never wanted him up here to begin with...far too early. But I thought he played an overall solid game.

I am very much looking forward to a strong playoff performance from him this year...and I see him making a run for a spot on the Flames in the fall.

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Maybe just me, but I was really impressed with Ortio.

I never wanted him up here to begin with...far too early. But I thought he played an overall solid game.

I am very much looking forward to a strong playoff performance from him this year...and I see him making a run for a spot on the Flames in the fall.

 

I was at last night's Heat game and thought Roy was very ordinary. The Griffins held the play for about half the game, so they deserved the win, but the Heat could have easily won at the same time. So I wished Ortio was playing last night for the Heat. 

 

I hope he can have a good playoff too. The Heat could use a different philosophy, but then  that is another conversation...

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Perhaps you dont remember mike Vernon. The guy would allow one softie per game as a rule, hence why he didnt have many shutouts.Patrick roy allowed them from behind the opposition net on occasion.Luongo cant win the big one because bad goals is what he does best.

A 27 yr old goaltender is the equivalent of a 22yr old forward. .aka just coming into their prime. Its also the same age mikka kiprusoff was when he came to calgary. He was just coming into his prime

28-34 kipper was pretty memorable.

Not saying this kid is the same caliber, just saying ....once again...our bar is a little high thanks to kipper.some people wont be happy until we put a nightly game stealer in there and its not a realistic expectation. Hes come 500 miles from his early season form to now in his adaption to the north American game and was dominant where he came from.to expect that progression to continue is not a stretch

Success bias. For every Kipper there are dozens of Karlssons that never panned out. You can't hold on to a crappy goalie crossing your fingers they turn into stars.

And as Cross says, Berra isn't Kipper. Berra is getting the starts he just isn't doing anything with them. You can say it is because of the team, but other goalies like Ramo and MacDonald have been better on the same team.

Maybe just me, but I was really impressed with Ortio.

I never wanted him up here to begin with...far too early. But I thought he played an overall solid game.

I am very much looking forward to a strong playoff performance from him this year...and I see him making a run for a spot on the Flames in the fall.

I thought he look overwhelmed. He never seemed to settle in. He was fine overall, and it is understandable given it was his first start, but based on one viewing he doesn't look ready for the NHL in my opinion.

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All goalies "lose" games for their teams on occasion, it happens. In 28 games (26 starts) this season he has a .294 GAA and an .898 sv%. That is not solid starting goalie numbers, but it is decent Backup numbers. In 20 games, Bryzgalov has a 3.01 GAA and a .908 sv%, not much better than Berra and we can all admit he is an NHL starter. NHL totals he has a 2.57 GAA and 9.13 sv%. Price, Luongo and Fleury are all over 2.33 GAA with both Fleury and Luongo both under .920 sv% and these are veterans with mainly veteran teams in front of them.

 

Berra is just behind Enroth, Pavelec and Nabokov in GAA within the top 60 goalies in the league. He is top 65 in the league in sv% tied with Emery and just behind Backstrom, Brodeur and Nabokov. Take out any player with fewer than 10 games played and Berra moves into the top 60 in sv%. Being right in the mix with NHL caliber goalies, and in fact Starters, I am not sure how you can say he is not an NHL caliber goalie, especially when many of his games were played without Giordano, Cammalleri, Wideman, Russell... basically the higher members of the team. I don't expect him to be Calgary's starter, but he is definitely an NHL caliber backup at worst. In 13 of 28 games he has allowed 2 or fewer goals. Yes he had some NASTY nights, 7 games with 4 or more goals but so do most goalies. 

 

I don't think he will be Calgary's star goalie of the future, I really doubt he will be, but he is a good backup for now. Berra's numbers say he is an NHL caliber backup, and his play has been good enough for a backup as well. Those who say he is not NHL caliber are being far too critical and expect him to be a starter which he is not.

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I was at last night's Heat game and thought Roy was very ordinary. The Griffins held the play for about half the game, so they deserved the win, but the Heat could have easily won at the same time. So I wished Ortio was playing last night for the Heat. 

 

I hope he can have a good playoff too. The Heat could use a different philosophy, but then  that is another conversation...

 

Saturday night Jmac was in net not Roy.

 

 I wish Ortio was down with the Heat aswell, They seem abit off without some of their key members.

 

But with the possibility of NHL games right now, hes going to be learning alot more for the time being. Then when Ramo is back from injury, Ortio will go back down to the heat, and help with them with the rest of the season and the play-offs, If I lived closer I would be getting some play-off tickets.

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Success bias. For every Kipper there are dozens of Karlssons that never panned out. You can't hold on to a crappy goalie crossing your fingers they turn into stars.

And as Cross says, Berra isn't Kipper. Berra is getting the starts he just isn't doing anything with them. You can say it is because of the team, but other goalies like Ramo and MacDonald have been better on the same team.

I thought he look overwhelmed. He never seemed to settle in. He was fine overall, and it is understandable given it was his first start, but based on one viewing he doesn't look ready for the NHL in my opinion.

Last night's game was a win (not in regulation, again), but I don't feel that Berra stole it.  The Flames blocked 27 shots and kept the chances low  %.  This was a typical Berra game; make some decent stops, keep it close, and let in a tying goal in the 3rd. 

 

I would rather that he became consistent in a game - either he plays good or bad the whole game.  That way we could make a decision on him - sign him or let him go.  It still seems like we have to play him to see if he is worth re-signing.  Of course Ramo being out plays a part of that.

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All goalies "lose" games for their teams on occasion, it happens. In 28 games (26 starts) this season he has a .294 GAA and an .898 sv%. That is not solid starting goalie numbers, but it is decent Backup numbers. In 20 games, 

 

Those aren't solid anything numbers.  Those are dreadful.  

 

Bryzgalov has a 3.01 GAA and a .908 sv%, not much better than Berra and we can all admit he is an NHL starter.

 

What do you mean that isn't much better?  Those are MUCH better numbers.  GAA is more of a team stat.  In terms of SV% .898 vs .908 is around a half a goal per game difference.  

 

Berra is just behind Enroth, Pavelec and Nabokov in GAA within the top 60 goalies in the league. He is top 65 in the league in sv% tied with Emery and just behind Backstrom, Brodeur and Nabokov. Take out any player with fewer than 10 games played and Berra moves into the top 60 in sv%. Being right in the mix with NHL caliber goalies, and in fact Starters,

 

There are only 30 teams in the NHL, each with two goalies that see any time.  Berra is at the very bottom of that list ...

 

I am not sure how you can say he is not an NHL caliber goalie

 

You are pointing out exactly why he isn't an NHL caliber goalie.  

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Last night's game was a win (not in regulation, again), but I don't feel that Berra stole it.  The Flames blocked 27 shots and kept the chances low  %.  This was a typical Berra game; make some decent stops, keep it close, and let in a tying goal in the 3rd. 

 

I would rather that he became consistent in a game - either he plays good or bad the whole game.  That way we could make a decision on him - sign him or let him go.  It still seems like we have to play him to see if he is worth re-signing.  Of course Ramo being out plays a part of that.

 

It's not a goalie's job to steal games.  We got used to the fact that Kipper was able to do that for a mediocre team, and now we hold that as a standard.  It's awesome if a goaltender can do that, but it's not a job description. I would expect "game stealing" to mean the Flames winning games against the elite teams, despite the play of the rest of the team.  If the top 9 forwards and top 4 defense failed to show up, and the Flames won anyway, *that's* game-stealing.

 

Even if it was a job description, it shouldn't have been an expectation against a team like Edmonton, especially the way the Flames (as a team) have been playing lately.

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 I thought he look overwhelmed. He never seemed to settle in. He was fine overall, and it is understandable given it was his first start, but based on one viewing he doesn't look ready for the NHL in my opinion.

 

You're agreeing with me, but it is worded in such a way that it seems like you're disagreeing, from a glass-half-empty approach?

 

Yes, as per my post, he never should have been brought to the NHL this year.  And, why on earth would anyone other than incompetent Flames management think he Would be ready?   They have played this kid in just about every North American league this year, from the ECHL to the AHL to the NHL.  

 

Anyone could see from the onset of the season and now, that this was an obvious AHL year for him.  Yet Flames management can't help but get confused and put him in leagues above and below this.  True, there were reasons for each move.  But all those reasons were a result of decisions made by the Flames which had predictable and avoidable downsides.

 

I also thought he looked fine overall and I see this as a tremendous positive for his age and background.

 

Hopefully the Flames manage to get him back in the AHL shortly, where he belongs, so he can gain more AHL experience.  More importantly, more AHL playoff experience.

 

If they can manage this, I think he will push hard next year for a spot with the Flames.  He's not ready yet but he's getting close.

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You're agreeing with me, but it is worded in such a way that it seems like you're disagreeing, from a glass-half-empty approach?

 

Yes, as per my post, he never should have been brought to the NHL this year.  And, why on earth would anyone other than incompetent Flames management think he Would be ready?   They have played this kid in just about every North American league this year, from the ECHL to the AHL to the NHL.  

 

Anyone could see from the onset of the season and now, that this was an obvious AHL year for him.  Yet Flames management can't help but get confused and put him in leagues above and below this.  True, there were reasons for each move.  But all those reasons were a result of decisions made by the Flames which had predictable and avoidable downsides.

 

I also thought he looked fine overall and I see this as a tremendous positive for his age and background.

 

Hopefully the Flames manage to get him back in the AHL shortly, where he belongs, so he can gain more AHL experience.  More importantly, more AHL playoff experience.

 

If they can manage this, I think he will push hard next year for a spot with the Flames.  He's not ready yet but he's getting close.

 

I'm sure that the injury to Ramo was 100% avoidable, and the Flames mismanaged yet another player, yet again :wacko:

 

JJ, I feel your passion, but sometimes you gotta take off the tinfoil hat.

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I agree Berra isn't a starter but I agree he is a solid backup. Our goalies have keep us in games. Ortio for his first start was average, I didn't see any cause for panic. We have had few games where tending was the main reason for the lose. 

 

Ortio needs one more season with Gilles as he back up. If Berra is to go to FA i disagree he gets picked up. SIgn him for another year and see what happens, it isn't like we are making the playoffs next year anyway.  A better dcore and offensive players sticking to their assignments can make a average goalie look good. IMO, not to down play the goalie issue we have more glaring issues than in net.

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I'm sure that the injury to Ramo was 100% avoidable, and the Flames mismanaged yet another player, yet again :wacko:

JJ, I feel your passion, but sometimes you gotta take off the tinfoil hat.

Kulstad,

That was completely uncalled for and more importantly not thought through.

Please go back to the start of this thread and check how many goaltenders we have gone through recently.

We've dropped Laurent Brossoit, Danny Taylor, Leland Irving.

Danny Taylor or Irving would have been just fine as a backup...and quite frankly with the Flame's record right now, Anyone including most pylons would have been just fine as a backup, making little or no difference in our fortunes.

The Flames made a Conscious decision to keep older veterans such as JMac, and give up youth, such as Brossoit. They made a choice to bank on Ramo, who had bad knees when they acquired him.

The Flames made a conscious decision not to sign Gillies, and have indicated they likely won't sign him next year either. World Juniors aside, Gillies is our top goaltending prospect. I'll even admit it...he's better than Ortio. At this point. He may be our top prospect overall.

I can think of a million Better combinations Other than clogging your system full of aging, mediocre, questionable veterans.

Now, they all have their own strengths and weaknesses and arguements can be made on many sides. But for you to act as if the Flames had no say in the matter and dismiss any suggestion of their involvement as tin-foil head talk, really demonstrates a lack of consideration and thought before you post.

It's as if the last 53 pages of the most hotly-contested topic on this forum all of a sudden never existed and you were the first poster.

Either issue a standard set of pom poms to all posters, and make it clear that this forum is only for praise of the organization (like what happened on the Oilers forum with Lowe)....or expect people to have opinions on here.

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Big difference in kipper was he proved he could play in the NHL, he just needed someone to stick with him. Berra is 27 and still hasn't proven he can play in the NHL so it's not the same example at all. I get that 27 is a prime age for a goalie but prime indicates they are at their best not a starting point and needing to improve. And Berra was not dominant where he came from, in many seasons he wasn't even the best goalie.

I actually don't have that expectation at all. My expectation of a goalie at a minimum is give your team a chance to win every night, and a starter should steak games for you now and then. Berra does not give his team a chance to win and on more then one occasion has cost his team the game. That's an unacceptable standard for an NHL goalie.

Pre calgary kipper is the perfect example of a goalie people here label as "non nhl quality"

He was 5-14 his final season in san jose with an .879 sv%, #3 on a depth chart and barely adequate in spot duty befire that, likely playing against lesser opponents. The only reason we got him was to buy time for Turek to get healthy. If mclennan wasnt playing with a broken sternum we never would have aquired him. But then he fit our system perfectly..right place right time.

Berra has stolen points for us. Hes undefeated in shootouts. The number of off games where you can say he cost us points can be countednon one hand.

As I write this, Ryan Miller is stinking the joint out in his st louis debut..why? Likely because its a new system and unfamiliar players in front of him

My point is, expecrations arw way too high where our goalies are concerned. You could be running a tandem of miller and lundqvist right now and we are likely in the same position with close to the same record

I dont disagree that ramo may be the better of the 2 right now, but even thst is likely because he has a year of nhl behind him.

To say that our tenders dont give us a chance to win and continuously cost us our games is a complete fallacy and just proves people have no clue about what they are seeing and are expecting too much. We're obviously watching different games

For his 1st nhl start Ortio looked really good, I think hes the starter of the future. I hope he gets 1 or 2 more before he goes back,

Our tandem Is just fine, with ortio and gillies in development we are doing it right.to give up any resources, players or picks towards thst pisition before we address the team in front of them would be a huge mistake

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Kulstad,

That was completely uncalled for and more importantly not thought through.

Please go back to the start of this thread and check how many goaltenders we have gone through recently.

We've dropped Laurent Brossoit, Danny Taylor, Leland Irving.

Danny Taylor or Irving would have been just fine as a backup...and quite frankly with the Flame's record right now, Anyone including most pylons would have been just fine as a backup, making little or no difference in our fortunes.

The Flames made a Conscious decision to keep older veterans such as JMac, and give up youth, such as Brossoit. They made a choice to bank on Ramo, who had bad knees when they acquired him.

The Flames made a conscious decision not to sign Gillies, and have indicated they likely won't sign him next year either. World Juniors aside, Gillies is our top goaltending prospect. I'll even admit it...he's better than Ortio. At this point. He may be our top prospect overall.

I can think of a million Better combinations Other than clogging your system full of aging, mediocre, questionable veterans.

Now, they all have their own strengths and weaknesses and arguements can be made on many sides. But for you to act as if the Flames had no say in the matter and dismiss any suggestion of their involvement as tin-foil head talk, really demonstrates a lack of consideration and thought before you post.

It's as if the last 53 pages of the most hotly-contested topic on this forum all of a sudden never existed and you were the first poster.

Either issue a standard set of pom poms to all posters, and make it clear that this forum is only for praise of the organization (like what happened on the Oilers forum with Lowe)....or expect people to have opinions on here.

You're not going to believe this, but im in 98% agreement with you :)

We are definitely making our goaltenders earn their keep. The only areas I may disagree is I dont believe Brossoit was tossed aside, I think its as was said, hes the player the oilers wanted in the Smid trade and we were comfortable enough with ortio and gillies to comply. Smid has been a great add for us.

I also don't believe they have written off signing gillies, just decided its better for his development to mature more in college so he can jump to the ahl instead of struggling in Alaska. I think you see him signed after next season, in time to take over from ortio

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Kulstad,

That was completely uncalled for and more importantly not thought through.

Please go back to the start of this thread and check how many goaltenders we have gone through recently.

We've dropped Laurent Brossoit, Danny Taylor, Leland Irving.

For the record LI was given lots of opportunities to show he was ready and pretty much failed. He was even given a reprive and showed up to the heat out of condition and was outplayed by both Danny Taylor and Barry Brust. LI was let go and if he was even all that he would have been picked up by someone....

 

No one knows if Brossoit will turn out better than any of these prospects but what we do know is he is years away from any NHL team having to make that decision.

Danny Taylor or Irving would have been just fine as a backup...and quite frankly with the Flame's record right now, Anyone including most pylons would have been just fine as a backup, making little or no difference in our fortunes.

The Flames made a Conscious decision to keep older veterans such as JMac, and give up youth, such as Brossoit. They made a choice to bank on Ramo, who had bad knees when they acquired him.

 

I don't quite understand where this older veterans thing is coming from. Yes JMac is older but he was only given a short time to go for  the Flames starter job. He definately showed he was more than just a pylon when he was forced to the starter role when Kipper was injured. Either way..... Both Berra and Ramo are younger than Taylor who was let go and frankly both are better than Taylor and LI.  We got a bit younger ...

 

Worse case is we have to make a decision of JMac Berra and Ramo for backup role this coming year. Isn't that what we are supposed to be doing this season? Evaluating Ramo and JMac and Berra as Starters and backup? Any could be the Pylons you seem to think can play backup.

The Flames made a conscious decision not to sign Gillies, and have indicated they likely won't sign him next year either. World Juniors aside, Gillies is our top goaltending prospect. I'll even admit it...he's better than Ortio. At this point. He may be our top prospect overall.

 

Until Gillies states he wants to leave college and turn pro you can't sign him to anything. There is no concious decision involved about anything to do with signing him.

I can think of a million Better combinations Other than clogging your system full of aging, mediocre, questionable veterans.

Now, they all have their own strengths and weaknesses and arguements can be made on many sides. But for you to act as if the Flames had no say in the matter and dismiss any suggestion of their involvement as tin-foil head talk, really demonstrates a lack of consideration and thought before you post.

It's as if the last 53 pages of the most hotly-contested topic on this forum all of a sudden never existed and you were the first poster.

Either issue a standard set of pom poms to all posters, and make it clear that this forum is only for praise of the organization (like what happened on the Oilers forum with Lowe)....or expect people to have opinions on here.

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Pre calgary kipper is the perfect example of a goalie people here label as "non nhl quality"

He was 5-14 his final season in san jose with an .879 sv%, #3 on a depth chart and barely adequate in spot duty befire that, likely playing against lesser opponents. The only reason we got him was to buy time for Turek to get healthy. If mclennan wasnt playing with a broken sternum we never would have aquired him. But then he fit our system perfectly..right place right time.

Berra has stolen points for us. Hes undefeated in shootouts. The number of off games where you can say he cost us points can be countednon one hand.

As I write this, Ryan Miller is stinking the joint out in his st louis debut..why? Likely because its a new system and unfamiliar players in front of him

My point is, expecrations arw way too high where our goalies are concerned. You could be running a tandem of miller and lundqvist right now and we are likely in the same position with close to the same record

I dont disagree that ramo may be the better of the 2 right now, but even thst is likely because he has a year of nhl behind him.

To say that our tenders dont give us a chance to win and continuously cost us our games is a complete fallacy and just proves people have no clue about what they are seeing and are expecting too much. We're obviously watching different games

For his 1st nhl start Ortio looked really good, I think hes the starter of the future. I hope he gets 1 or 2 more before he goes back,

Our tandem Is just fine, with ortio and gillies in development we are doing it right.to give up any resources, players or picks towards thst pisition before we address the team in front of them would be a huge mistake

Remember how you like, but for me kipper was a classic case of a guy just needing n opportunity and was not a case of someone who was non NHL quality. His first 20 to 30 games int he NHL were pretty impressive and he also was an AHL all star. Remember the flames had to give up a 2nd round pick to get him which is not exactly chump change. It's easy to revise history now but San Jose clearly knew they had an NHL goalie otherwise e price would have been significantly lower. It's also not true that they would not have acquired him, Sutter was actually shopping for a goalie that whole season and had two in mind. It came down to kipper and apparently Cujo, but Sutter went with kipper because he couldn't make cujos salary work under his budget. The flames were acquiring a goalie under Sutter as Sutter never gave turek any vote of confidence.

Goalies with save % under 90 are not keeping you in a lot of games and the amount of weak goals he lets in are not NHL calibre. He doesn't cost then a ton of games but he has cost then more then one and the type so f goals he seems to let in frequently are back breakers.

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As I write this, Ryan Miller is stinking the joint out in his st louis debut..why? Likely because its a new system and unfamiliar players in front of him

 

Miller did alright and the Blues won 4 - 2...

 

304f35bf12e39386ffb33d81a3595c6a.png

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Remember how you like, but for me kipper was a classic case of a guy just needing n opportunity and was not a case of someone who was non NHL quality. His first 20 to 30 games int he NHL were pretty impressive and he also was an AHL all star. Remember the flames had to give up a 2nd round pick to get him which is not exactly chump change. It's easy to revise history now but San Jose clearly knew they had an NHL goalie otherwise e price would have been significantly lower. It's also not true that they would not have acquired him, Sutter was actually shopping for a goalie that whole season and had two in mind. It came down to kipper and apparently Cujo, but Sutter went with kipper because he couldn't make cujos salary work under his budget. The flames were acquiring a goalie under Sutter as Sutter never gave turek any vote of confidence.

Goalies with save % under 90 are not keeping you in a lot of games and the amount of weak goals he lets in are not NHL calibre. He doesn't cost then a ton of games but he has cost then more then one and the type so f goals he seems to let in frequently are back breakers.

Marc-Andre Fleury's stats in his first 2 seasons in the NHL

2003-2004 PENGUINS 21 4 14 2 - 1 70 675 .896 3.64 1,154 2005-2006 PENGUINS 50 13 27 - 6 1 152 1,485 .898 3.25 2,809

Both seasons under .900 save % so I guess he is not a NHL caliber goalie either. Yes Berra has let in his fair share of weak goals but he also has made his fair share of amazing saves that should have went in. Every goalie in this league or any league let's in weak goals. His save % is barely under .900 and even at his age he is still a rookie to NA hockey some European goalies can come right over and thrive and some take a little longer. Say what you will about Calgary's goal tending but coming into this year everybody thought that it was terrible and that we were going to be the laughing stock of the league but Ramo and Berra have proven they are capable of keeping games close and giving us a chance.    

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Marc-Andre Fleury's stats in his first 2 seasons in the NHL

2003-2004

PENGUINS

21[/size]

4

14

2

-

1

70

675[/size]

.896[/size]

3.64[/size]

1,154[/size]

2005-2006

PENGUINS

50[/size]

13

27

-

6

1

152

1,485[/size]

.898[/size]

3.25[/size]

2,809[/size]

Both seasons under .900 save % so I guess he is not a NHL caliber goalie either. Yes Berra has let in his fair share of weak goals but he also has made his fair share of amazing saves that should have went in. Every goalie in this league or any league let's in weak goals. His save % is barely under .900 and even at his age he is still a rookie to NA hockey some European goalies can come right over and thrive and some take a little longer. Say what you will about Calgary's goal tending but coming into this year everybody thought that it was terrible and that we were going to be the laughing stock of the league but Ramo and Berra have proven they are capable of keeping games close and giving us a chance.    

You are comparing a 20 year old rookie who had never played pro hockey to a 27 year old pro? Not valid comparison. I don't like that people seem willing to grant Berra this long leash by saying oh well he is an NHL rookie, that's hogwash. Nicklas backstrom didn't need time to adjustment neither did Jonas hillier or Federick Andersen, and in fact most European goalies who Are any good don't take that much time to adjust. It's an adjustment,It's not like a rookie who has to learn a whole new game.

Calgary is 3rd last in the NHL and statistically has the worst goaltending, I believes I n the NHL so sorry no they do not have capable goaltending and yes the goalie experiment hs work out jus to Ike many of us thought it would. Not very well.

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You are comparing a 20 year old rookie who had never played pro hockey to a 27 year old pro? Not valid comparison. I don't like that people seem willing to grant Berra this long leash by saying oh well he is an NHL rookie, that's hogwash. Nicklas backstrom didn't need time to adjustment neither did Jonas hillier or Federick Andersen, and in fact most European goalies who Are any good don't take that much time to adjust. It's an adjustment,It's not like a rookie who has to learn a whole new game.

Calgary is 3rd last in the NHL and statistically has the worst goaltending, I believes I n the NHL so sorry no they do not have capable goaltending and yes the goalie experiment hs work out jus to Ike many of us thought it would. Not very well.

Yes Berra is 27 years old and was a pro in Swiss League A which is a lot different then the NHL, so comparing them is valid because the stats listed were at the times they were both rookies and it shows that MAF took longer to get used to the NHL style of play. The only difference is Berra is a little more mature physically and mentally because of his age. Those goalies you mentioned did not need much time to adjust I agree but they also had playoff caliber teams in front of them and a veteran goalie with them on the team so that is not really valid either. The statement I put in bold print means we all now know how you feel about Joni Orito who was shelled the first 2 times he tried to play in the AHL. But I am sure you going to use the age thing again, which is a invalid argument because age is only 1 small factor in the whole package. Both Berra and Ramo have proved they belong in the NHL, Calgary is 25th out of 30 teams in GAA which is better then many fans they would have expected at the start of the year so as much as you want to say they don't have capable goaltending there are 5 teams that would like have at least one of these guys on their team.  

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLSAAAll&sort=avgGoalsAgainstPerGame&viewName=summary 

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Yes Berra is 27 years old and was a pro in Swiss League A which is a lot different then the NHL, so comparing them is valid because neither one had played in the best pro league in the world.....  

 

I have a hard time getting past this first sentence, personally.

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Yes Berra is 27 years old and was a pro in Swiss League A which is a lot different then the NHL, so comparing them is valid because neither one had played in the best pro league in the world. The only difference is Berra is a little more mature physically and mentally because of his age. Those goalies you mentioned did not need much time to adjust I agree but they also had playoff caliber teams in front of them and a veteran goalie with them on the team so that is not really valid either. The statement I put in bold print means we all now know how you feel about Joni Orito who was shelled the first 2 times he tried to play in the AHL. But I am sure you going to use the age thing again, which is a invalid argument because age is only 1 small factor in the whole package. Both Berra and Ramo have proved they belong in the NHL, Calgary is 25th out of 30 teams in GAA which is better then many fans they would have expected at the start of the year so as much as you want to say they don't have capable goaltending there are 5 teams that would like have at least one of these guys on their team.  

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLSAAAll&sort=avgGoalsAgainstPerGame&viewName=summary 

Flames are 2nd last in team save percentage and I have no idea why we should feel good about having the 2nd worst save percentage and the 5th worst GAA, that to me screams you don't have NHL calibre goaltending.

Actually I feel very differently about Ortio because age absolutely matter. Thinking that 7 years of pro experience, regardless of the league, doesn't play a factor is ridiculous to me but whatever. It has a huge impact.

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