Jump to content
The Official Site of the Calgary Flames

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Recommended Posts

Somebody please let me know if there's already a thread on this and I've missed it?

 

I think we've got a real good handle on the Keegan Kanzig discusson, and it might be time to start talking about our first round picks.

 

I'd actually hoped someone else would start this thread that was a bigger fan of Poirier.  I'm sure those fans are out there (somewhere?), so please speak up.

 

I have to start off by saying that we passed over Hunter Shinkaruk, generally ranked 12th overall, to pick Poirier with our 22nd pick (slated for the 2nd round).

 

After witnessing the strength of Chara in the Stanley cup playoffs, we saw a huge shift towards larger players this draft, sending mid-sized players such as Shinkaruk significantly down from their original ranking.  Nobody seemed to notice that Chara didn't actually win the cup, and that the playoff MVP was a smaller player by the name of Patrick Kane.

 

With that preamble in mind, behold Emile Poirier:

 

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/emile-poirier/

 

 

Thoughts? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so glad we passed on Hunter Shinkaruk.  I don't think he'd be much more than a Devin Setoguchi.  An high energy winger who will score once in a while but isn't first line material.  Isn't going to lead the way in offense.  Can't generate offense all by himself.

 

I would've went with either Hartman or Zykov. That said, I think Poirier will be better than Shinkaruk too.

 

From all accounts, Poirier is the fastest skater in the draft and plays with an edge.  We could be looking at an Alex Burrows.  Maybe a Mason Raymond.  We haven't had a player this fast since Matt Lombardi.  Really excited to see him play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am excited about the possibility of a Poirier-Monahan PK line in the future. I think they could evolve into a deadly combo in there own zone and would make d play a bit less aggressively because of the change of Poirier blowing by them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too have no problem passing on Shinkaruk and he is no Pat Kane that's for sure, Kane was a far more dominant player in junior than Shinkaruk. I too think Shinkaruk can top out only as a complimentary player and given that and a lot of the reports that he did interview well and has sone attitude red flags in fine with passing on him. I would have gone with Haag at that pick actually or Zykov.

In terms of Porier I came away pretty happy with him after the last two days. Fantastic skater who also shows no fear of going to the net or playing a physical game. My only concern with his is can he make plays at that high a speed or will he just be a straight line guy ala mason Raymond. Mason Raymond wouldn't be an awful upside but I think ideally you want more and that's what I'll look for as he develops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the Poirier draft pick, he brings size,speed, grit and just about everything else we lack on our top line.  I really think Feaster and Co came through in a big way, I see all 3 of our top round picks eventually developing into our top line for years to come, not so sure if Klemchuck (sp) is top line material, but there is always sven or Johnny, either way I really how things look in the text 2 years for the top 3 lines:

 

Sven/Monahan/Poirier

JohnnyG/ Backlund or Janko/ Horak

Klemchuck or Kenny A/ Backlund or Janko/ Reinhart

Klemchuck or Kenny A/ Knight/ Hanow or whoever...

 

Then there is still Bouma, Nemisz and Grunlund at Ctr.  Finally depth and flexibility!  Now not all these guys will pan out well but a good chunk of them are looking really solid as top 9 Fwds so we will at least have some decent trade depth to round out holes here and there.

 

All and all solid foundation has now been established up front with room to work, all they need to do is figure out the goal situation then focus on fixing the D in next draft and we should be good to go for years to come AS LONG AS they keep a balance of restocking the shelves through the drafts, focus on Fwd then D and every 5th year or so, look a G prospect in the 1st round basically, when there is a solid 1st round G standout you draft a G then, otherwise rotate (based upon the strength of the draft) Fwd and D.  Been noticing as of late the best prospects outcome is to focus you drafting options based upon the strength of the draft, this year was Fwd and more particularly at Ctr which worked out in our favor!

 

As long as our scouts and drafting team keep to the strength of a draft they should fair well.

 

I just hope they never go back to the mortgaging the future philosophy, it has really killed us, fortunately we got a little lucky in the past few drafts so we could see a 2-3 year turnaround if all goes well with our prospect development, again, we got luck with Gadreau, Reinhart and Grunlund being pleasant surprises coupled with a few shrewd moves this past year with feaster, should they pan out (Augistno, Hanowski, Knight, Jones (col), Cundari and Russell) if any of those moves turn out to be decent NHL quality players and our current surprises and at least 2 of our G prospects work out, we'll be sitting pretty good in 2 yrs!

 

Now back on topic, I really gave a good feeling and impression about Poirier, he should be an impact top line RW in a few years :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somebody please let me know if there's already a thread on this and I've missed it?

 

I think we've got a real good handle on the Keegan Kanzig discusson, and it might be time to start talking about our first round picks.

 

I'd actually hoped someone else would start this thread that was a bigger fan of Poirier.  I'm sure those fans are out there (somewhere?), so please speak up.

 

I have to start off by saying that we passed over Hunter Shinkaruk, generally ranked 12th overall, to pick Poirier with our 22nd pick (slated for the 2nd round).

 

After witnessing the strength of Chara in the Stanley cup playoffs, we saw a huge shift towards larger players this draft, sending mid-sized players such as Shinkaruk significantly down from their original ranking.  Nobody seemed to notice that Chara didn't actually win the cup, and that the playoff MVP was a smaller player by the name of Patrick Kane.

 

With that preamble in mind, behold Emile Poirier:

 

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/emile-poirier/

 

 

Thoughts? 

And here is my issue with your thought process.  You keep using the rankings of TSN or the ISS to decide weather a pick is good or not.  Did TSN have a personal interview with the prospects on trying to get to know them on a personal level?   Do they have a list of criteria that the Flames organization is looking for in players?

 

If you are a million dollar company are you going to take the word of someone else and not do your own evaluation of the employee before you take them on.  What kind of employee do you want? Obviously the Flames seen something in Shinkaruk that they did not like and something in Porier that they did. (could this be the players attitude, work ethic or something else?) Cause if we draft guys where these media outlets rank the players that is basically what you are suggesting that the Flames do. I for one am glad that the Flames make their own list and decide what kind of person they want to represent them. As fans we have to realize that the scouts for the Flames have a ton more information than we do. Not to mention they have a better understanding of where the franchise is heading than the media outlets.( TSN ISS)

 

But on to the Porier display from saturday.  i was not overly impressed with his game on saturday.  But still see the upside in the player if he can continue to improve. He did have a good net presence. Still want to see more from him though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somebody please let me know if there's already a thread on this and I've missed it?

 

I think we've got a real good handle on the Keegan Kanzig discusson, and it might be time to start talking about our first round picks.

 

I'd actually hoped someone else would start this thread that was a bigger fan of Poirier.  I'm sure those fans are out there (somewhere?), so please speak up.

 

I have to start off by saying that we passed over Hunter Shinkaruk, generally ranked 12th overall, to pick Poirier with our 22nd pick (slated for the 2nd round).

 

After witnessing the strength of Chara in the Stanley cup playoffs, we saw a huge shift towards larger players this draft, sending mid-sized players such as Shinkaruk significantly down from their original ranking.  Nobody seemed to notice that Chara didn't actually win the cup, and that the playoff MVP was a smaller player by the name of Patrick Kane.

 

With that preamble in mind, behold Emile Poirier:

 

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/emile-poirier/

 

 

Thoughts? 

Im a bit curious, were you as upset we didnt take Nicushkin over Monahan? He was ranked way higher on just about every list, so in a sense we went off the board a bit to take Monahan

After review, I like the Poirer pick. Love his speed and his hands. Comparing him to Lombardi I like hus upside better. Lombardi had speed but he was all perimeter..this kid gets his nose dirty and gets to the net.. I like it

We can only guess, but something made hunter drop 12 spots. 11 other teams disliked him too. Ive spoken with whl players who have said hes got an attitude issue. ? Hes a player but something rubbed at least 11 teams the wrong way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have enough threads discussing the draft, BPA, etc.  It doesn't matter if he should have been drafted 22, 28, or 50.  Its done now and he is a Flames prospect.  Time to focus on the player rather then the draft number.  

 

I still need to see more of Poirire before I come to a firm opinion of him.  I think he is a few years away from the NHL.  I will be watching him closely this season.  If he can take another big step forward he might be a marquee prospect.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We can only guess, but something made hunter drop 12 spots. 11 other teams disliked him too. Ive spoken with whl players who have said hes got an attitude issue. ? Hes a player but something rubbed at least 11 teams the wrong way

 

My cousin knows Shinkaruk, says he is hardly an academic, struggled in school. Could have influenced his draft position as a lot of scouts/GMs do consider the whole person and not just the hockey playing ability. A lot of scouts value thinkers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But on to the Porier display from saturday.  i was not overly impressed with his game on saturday.  But still see the upside in the player if he can continue to improve. He did have a good net presence. Still want to see more from him though

Here was my 3 lasting impressions that I saw of  Poiriers game on Sat.

 

(He breaks past the defense man into the open and gets a pass hits his stick and can't control it loses possession. Puck is shot into the corner he gets there 1st and makes a blind pass out front to no one. He speeds around the defense man with a bee line to the goal he fumbles the puck and is easily poke checked from the other defense man.)

See a pattern???

Now if we were like the NFL and had special team players ie. if we needed to kill the clock we could "ice it" send him in to beat the defense and hold it in the corner for a face off. (sarcasm).

 

I am sure there was a few scouts from various other teams watching this game.

So tell me would any team in the league give us their 1st or high 2nd in next years draft for him??

We took him early because " montreal was interested in him"   Ya Weisbrod/Feaster pulled that excuse on us last year.

 

So that being said!!!  We have what we have.

 

His positive points.

 

-Skating.

Fast and so smooth. It is like he was born with a turbo!!

 

- Size

If he could put on a little muscle look out.

 

What he needs to work on.

 

- Puck possession skills

- Hockey IQ.

- Shot

 

So 2 -3 years he could turn out to be just what the this team needs. (no sarcasm)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here was my 3 lasting impressions that I saw of  Poiriers game on Sat.

 

(He breaks past the defense man into the open and gets a pass hits his stick and can't control it loses possession. Puck is shot into the corner he gets there 1st and makes a blind pass out front to no one. He speeds around the defense man with a bee line to the goal he fumbles the puck and is easily poke checked from the other defense man.)

See a pattern???

Now if we were like the NFL and had special team players ie. if we needed to kill the clock we could "ice it" send him in to beat the defense and hold it in the corner for a face off. (sarcasm).

 

I am sure there was a few scouts from various other teams watching this game.

So tell me would any team in the league give us their 1st or high 2nd in next years draft for him??

We took him early because " montreal was interested in him"   Ya Weisbrod/Feaster pulled that excuse on us last year.

 

So that being said!!!  We have what we have.

 

His positive points.

 

-Skating.

Fast and so smooth. It is like he was born with a turbo!!

 

- Size

If he could put on a little muscle look out.

 

What he needs to work on.

 

- Puck possession skills

- Hockey IQ.

- Shot

 

So 2 -3 years he could turn out to be just what the this team needs. (no sarcasm)

I seen allot of what you did as well, but given the condition of the ice and the fact that its a scrimmage in the middle of summer with a group he's never stepped on the ice with before, I think I'll save my judgment untill later...

You have to,take what you see at these camps with a grain of salt, the main idea of the scrimmage is to show the fans what teams plucked out of the draft and help everyone get to know one another. This isn't a real game, there is no structure and the conditions are less the ideal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seen allot of what you did as well, but given the condition of the ice and the fact that its a scrimmage in the middle of summer with a group he's never stepped on the ice with before, I think I'll save my judgment untill later...

You have to,take what you see at these camps with a grain of salt, the main idea of the scrimmage is to show the fans what teams plucked out of the draft and help everyone get to know one another. This isn't a real game, there is no structure and the conditions are less the ideal.

 

exactly this and he is a prospect, so we do, or at least should expect some development time.  Having said this, the positives about his negative points are all things that require learning and are easily learned at that.  Though, I do question his lower hockey IQ, a good many scouting reports have him with a very high hockey IQ, possible he was on an off day?  Otherwise, puck possession skills at the NHL level generally take time to learn so that is normal for any prospect, at an NLH level, so I'm good with that.  As for his shot I'm again wondering if it was not an off day as may scouting reports and a vast many of the videos on this kid have his shot looking and rated well above average...Leads me to wonder if maybe with better puck possession and handling training at an NHL level may be the big thing he needs to work on as if possession and handling is off, shot generally is off.  Again, nothing to worry about though, this is something that comes with time, experience and training.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually saw a pretty high hockey IQ out of Porier. He had a good understanding of where to be and also when to time his rush to be able to split the d effectively at the blueline and create a chance for himself and that's pretty good hockey IQ in my books. my bigger "question marks" if you want to call it that for Porier based on the last two days where his penchant to float a bit and the fact that while he was able to create some good things for himself using speed and IQ he wasn't able to finish on them but that's not a worry for me at all that goes along with development and even the best players in the NHL have days they can't finish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to see what he does in the prospects tournament as a scrimage against probable future team-mates doesn't show what you do in the heat of battle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seen allot of what you did as well, but given the condition of the ice and the fact that its a scrimmage in the middle of summer with a group he's never stepped on the ice with before, I think I'll save my judgment untill later...

You have to,take what you see at these camps with a grain of salt, the main idea of the scrimmage is to show the fans what teams plucked out of the draft and help everyone get to know one another. This isn't a real game, there is no structure and the conditions are less the ideal.

 

Not only that, I don't think the camp is for the fans. In the long run yes, but it's meant to give the players a taste of what Calgary Flames hockey will be, and help them see what they have to work on, and if the hockey player is a good student, he will take the coaching staff's suggestions and go with it. It depends on the players after that.

exactly this and he is a prospect, so we do, or at least should expect some development time.  Having said this, the positives about his negative points are all things that require learning and are easily learned at that.  Though, I do question his lower hockey IQ, a good many scouting reports have him with a very high hockey IQ, possible he was on an off day?  Otherwise, puck possession skills at the NHL level generally take time to learn so that is normal for any prospect, at an NLH level, so I'm good with that.  As for his shot I'm again wondering if it was not an off day as may scouting reports and a vast many of the videos on this kid have his shot looking and rated well above average...Leads me to wonder if maybe with better puck possession and handling training at an NHL level may be the big thing he needs to work on as if possession and handling is off, shot generally is off.  Again, nothing to worry about though, this is something that comes with time, experience and training.

 

That could be the quality of ice and maybe question when within the skating was his shots and puck possession? If it's at the end of the practice, maybe his cardio needs work and when you're tired your hands have a tendency to kind of get tired too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And here is my issue with your thought process.  

 

Your opening lines are getting Slightly more polite, but still make it less than appealing to actually read what you have to say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im a bit curious, were you as upset we didnt take Nicushkin over Monahan? He was ranked way higher on just about every list, so in a sense we went off the board a bit to take Monahan

After review, I like the Poirer pick. Love his speed and his hands. Comparing him to Lombardi I like hus upside better. Lombardi had speed but he was all perimeter..this kid gets his nose dirty and gets to the net.. I like it

We can only guess, but something made hunter drop 12 spots. 11 other teams disliked him too. Ive spoken with whl players who have said hes got an attitude issue. ? Hes a player but something rubbed at least 11 teams the wrong way

 

After investigating a bit more, and seeing this super-weird self-photo below, no.  I was not upset that we didn't draft Nichushkin.  I Would be upset if the Flames failed to evaluate him.   BPA doesn't mean that you follow the same rankings as, say ISS.  It Does mean that you follow a very similar list.  Certain players may not be the right fit for your organization, or present a risk you're not willing to take.  As long as you've evaluated the player, where you rank them is up to you.  I don't agree with sweeping generalizations to generate smaller lists.  Like....not drafting Russians, for instance.    I think generalizations like that are harmful to organizations.  But in this case, Nichushkin did seem to present a pretty significant risk.

 

As for Poirier, I agree...about...the speed.

 

663802302.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like what he brings personally. Hes fast and feisty. Something that the Flames dont have much of. I like his hockey IQ and hes shown that he has the hands to keep up with his speed. His rawness should be expected and will come with time and proper development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not ready to declare one way or the other if this guy is/was the best pick for us. I don't have nearly the resources that the Flames do and I certainly don't have the multiple scouts that see these players and confirm who they feel the best player is.

 

From everything I have read there is likely multiple scouts sent to look at the players the Flames are interested in and that each scout sent in to see the guy, is not bogged down with another scouts preconceived opinion. It is a system where they just say go look at this guy and then write what you see and think.

 

Add to that we as fans don't know the actual weight of parameters and ratings that the Flames put on their picks to come up with their list.

 

I will say however that one guy over at SNET seemed to know when he picked the exact same players for the Flames that the Flames ended up drafting.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/2013-nhl-mock-draft-sam-cosentinos-30-picks/

1c847802807ebaa7fd76bf831e10c854.png

 

fcef6dd20773a77d4909d0b761727101.png

 

2a3774a1e6b9b92e2d01abffac36a692.png

Talk about a crystal ball Mr Cosentino would you care to predict my Lotto numbers for the next 649 please???

 

I can't possibly come close to the depth that the Flames do with only my internet search and a few mock draft websites to go by.

 

In the end all this looks like we did make some decent choices, so lets hope this choice becomes what our scouts envision them to be one day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He looked very good today at scrimmage 2.  In the middle of everything - in front of the net a lot in the offensive zone ( I think he jammed in the garbage goal on the far side of the rink).  Had 2 impressive rushes which he left everyone in the dust and a lot more scoring chances than other day.  Unique player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He looked very good today at scrimmage 2.  In the middle of everything - in front of the net a lot in the offensive zone ( I think he jammed in the garbage goal on the far side of the rink).  Had 2 impressive rushes which he left everyone in the dust and a lot more scoring chances than other day.  Unique player.

Very Happy to hear about poirier this scrimage. I wish I could have made the game to see this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very Happy to hear about poirier this scrimage. I wish I could have made the game to see this.

 

I'll work on uploading some of the video this week and provide link(s)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like his hands could use some work, but wow is he fast and has the ability to break the D. J Hockey and this guy on the same line would be a nightmare for the D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...