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 Not going to discuss Sven here. It was just based on the assumption that he can stick, making GlenX available. Hudler and Colborne look dangerous either way. Last year Colborne played on RW with Mony. Prior to that combo it was Hudler on RW with Mony.

These were projections of how the roster looks at the end of the season. In the playoff race (really?) we would see less prospects. Out of the playoff, you will see some vets being moved. Unless GlenX is re-signed, he gets moved (NTC or not, they ask him to waive). Jones is likely traded by TDL or off-season.

 

Yep, do not want to discuss Sven here. Only in context of your lineup. No sense in beating a twice-dead horse.

I'm curious though, Raymond isn't in your line up at all now that I look and you haven't put him in the trade or wave section. I think he could actually slot into Sven's spot.

Dunno, our rookies are stepping up, so I wouldn't mind a few even if we are chasing a playoff spot. I think we have good vet leadership in Nuncle Hudler, Gio, and Stajan. Russel, Brodie, and Backlund round out the main vet corps. If it isn't broken, don't fix it eh? Although I think the main reason we are doing so well is our stellar goaltending. At this point though, I feel like I am veering off topic (based on thread title) so I will end here.

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Yep, do not want to discuss Sven here. Only in context of your lineup. No sense in beating a twice-dead horse.

I'm curious though, Raymond isn't in your line up at all now that I look and you haven't put him in the trade or wave section. I think he could actually slot into Sven's spot.

Dunno, our rookies are stepping up, so I wouldn't mind a few even if we are chasing a playoff spot. I think we have good vet leadership in Nuncle Hudler, Gio, and Stajan. Russel, Brodie, and Backlund round out the main vet corps. If it isn't broken, don't fix it eh? Although I think the main reason we are doing so well is our stellar goaltending. At this point though, I feel like I am veering off topic (based on thread title) so I will end here.

You got me there. Forgot about ol' MayRay. If Sven were killin' it, I would suggest moving up Raymond to #1 LW and Colborne on RW. That would mean a Hudler trade. Realistically, Poirier is probably not in the cards this year, so Hudler plays RW with either Johnny or Sven.

This probably is more accurate of next year. Hudler may get sold off, which creates some space. Like his game, but he is less of a pure scorer than Raymond. Of course that assumes that every prospect I listed is playing well enough to replace a vet.

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Hurdler ain't going nowhere, he has embraced this rebuild with the flames and is a key peice up front. There are a few interchangeable prices on this club but he is not one, at least not yet.

As far as Emile goes, im betting we see him in Calgary before Xmas...

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Hurdler ain't going nowhere, he has embraced this rebuild with the flames and is a key peice up front. There are a few interchangeable prices on this club but he is not one, at least not yet.

As far as Emile goes, im betting we see him in Calgary before Xmas...

 

I agree with this barring a significant return that the Flames can't turn down.  Hudler consistently gets put on the kid line and he does a great job mentoring them.  He also plays RW very well, and we have a serious lack of players at that position. That makes him more valuable then players like Glencross.  

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Hudler may have one more years with us I agree but this spot is still business so if the right offer comes he will be gone just like any other player.

 

Poirier is the future top line RW player for Calgary his grit is needed in my opinion on a future top line with Johnny on the other side.

 

Calgary has such a bright future. Within two years Calgary will be serious contenders.

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Hurdler ain't going nowhere, he has embraced this rebuild with the flames and is a key peice up front. There are a few interchangeable prices on this club but he is not one, at least not yet.

As far as Emile goes, im betting we see him in Calgary before Xmas...

Agree we're likely to see Poirier sooner than later, if some trades come down. Can't see lots of movement up without trades or injuries. Later this year and net we're seriously looking at difficult decisions on upgrades. I love the sped the team now has and great passing like last night. We need to keep that going no matter what direction we take.

I agree with this barring a significant return that the Flames can't turn down.  Hudler consistently gets put on the kid line and he does a great job mentoring them.  He also plays RW very well, and we have a serious lack of players at that position. That makes him more valuable then players like Glencross.

Agree with everything you say, but Glencross parks in front of the net which Hudler doesn't. There are trade-offs either way. Hopefully the kids continue to shine and moving either of them is a clear UPGRADE!

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Of course he will go for the right deal, but I think the cost would be too high to pry him out of Calgary, until guys lile Ferland and Poirer are ready and mature enough Hurdler is invaluable. What Im saying is I dont see him being shopped and I dont see anyone knocking on Brads door ready to hand over enough of a ransom to move him.

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Hurdler ain't going nowhere, he has embraced this rebuild with the flames and is a key peice up front. There are a few interchangeable prices on this club but he is not one, at least not yet.

As far as Emile goes, im betting we see him in Calgary before Xmas...

Hudler is a key piece in the rebuild as long as he is playing top 6. Once he tails off and rookies and prospects are beating his numbers, then he is less important. He becomes a complimentary piece like Stajan; good guy to have until he isn't needed.

Like I said, this is dependent on the kids. He was brought in prior to the rebuild. He has taken a teacher mentor role for the kids and provides top line scoring. Once he is surpassed, he is only valuable providing secondary scoring and leadership. You trade him if the return is great or he is being relegated to the 4th line.

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Agree we're likely to see Poirier sooner than later, if some trades come down. Can't see lots of movement up without trades or injuries. Later this year and net we're seriously looking at difficult decisions on upgrades. I love the sped the team now has and great passing like last night. We need to keep that going no matter what direction we take.!

no decision is difficult if you leave it up to the players and have enough BALLS to make the right call. If Emile gets the opportunity and shines you know Hartley will do what he can to keep this kid up. He has no problem letting guys watch from the box because his job and focus is on the ice, not on the cap or salaries.

Hudler is a key piece in the rebuild as long as he is playing top 6. Once he tails off and rookies and prospects are beating his numbers, then he is less important. He becomes a complimentary piece like Stajan; good guy to have until he isn't needed.

Like I said, this is dependent on the kids. He was brought in prior to the rebuild. He has taken a teacher mentor role for the kids and provides top line scoring. Once he is surpassed, he is only valuable providing secondary scoring and leadership. You trade him if the return is great or he is being relegated to the 4th line.

For sure, but aren't there yet so talking Hurdler trades right now make no sense.

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no decision is difficult if you leave it up to the players and have enough BALLS to make the right call. If Emile gets the opportunity and shines you know Hartley will do what he can to keep this kid up. He has no problem letting guys watch from the box because his job and focus is on the ice, not on the cap or salaries.

For sure, but aren't there yet so talking Hurdler trades right now make no sense.

Hartley can only do so much. He is somewhat stuck with players, except for being able to sit them. Setoguchi has to go to give him a roster spot to work with. Or Jones. Jooris, Ferland, Granlund and Sven are only here by way of injuries. Once we are healthy, Hartley will have trouble convincing BT that he needs to keep player X.

We have some nice prospects so figuring out how to fit them in a roster is fun. For me anyway. The trade part is the difficult part. Too hard to predict value on both sides. See Forsberg trade. What was WASH thinking? Erat? How come Flames never get a trade like that? :0

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Hartley can only do so much. He is somewhat stuck with players, except for being able to sit them. Setoguchi has to go to give him a roster spot to work with. Or Jones. Jooris, Ferland, Granlund and Sven are only here by way of injuries. Once we are healthy, Hartley will have trouble convincing BT that he needs to keep player X.

We have some nice prospects so figuring out how to fit them in a roster is fun. For me anyway. The trade part is the difficult part. Too hard to predict value on both sides. See Forsberg trade. What was WASH thinking? Erat? How come Flames never get a trade like that? :0

The Flames had been doing a great job of creating contract flexibility and getting rid of the difficult to move contracts. Now we have Stajan, Jones, Wideman, Smid, and Engelland's contracts. Tough to move any of them without taking on salary. Even Raymond and Bollig could be tough to move.

It's too bad because these are mostly three season contracts that have created a long term bottleneck for prospects to make the team.

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The Flames had been doing a great job of creating contract flexibility and getting rid of the difficult to move contracts. Now we have Stajan, Jones, Wideman, Smid, and Engelland's contracts. Tough to move any of them without taking on salary. Even Raymond and Bollig could be tough to move.

It's too bad because these are mostly three season contracts that have created a long term bottleneck for prospects to make the team.

Sometimes management misreads the state of a team's development curve. Sven should be ready. Ferland should be a year away. Jooris wasn't really on the radar. Bennett was not expected to make the team. Johnny Hockey was thought to need a year in the AHL. Poirier is a 1st year AHL player. Granlund looked nearly ready last year.

Guys like Raymond and Setoguchi were signed because we needed offense to replace Cammi. Raymond was given multi years because BT needed a few players to allow the kids time to develop.

What has happened is that some of the vets were injured and made space for a few tryout callups. The kids have surprised. Johnny has stuck and looks to be a bonafide NHL'er. Granlund looks to be like another Backlund, but one that can easily score. Jooris is like found money.

End result - we have way too many NHL players. I am more in favour of trading vets than prospects, but we have to turn over some of both. Byron, Smid, Wideman and Jones might be worth exploring. And Agostino, Culkin, Hanowski, Ramage might be worth a look too.

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First off all, a lot of assessments are being made way too early on. People are talking like Granlund has arrived and he's played 9 career NHL games. Gaudrea has less the 20 NHL games to his credit, Ferland has yet to complete a game and Porier has yet to see NHL ice. There is a lot of talent here yes and it's exciting but let's let it prove itself before we annoit it and start talking about moving all vets out. There is a reason you go and get established NHL players and it's because you can't always assume or bank on rookies. The odds of all of these players having long careers in the NHL or sticking full tine is not high and even if they do there is nothing wrong either having them wait. It's encouraging yes, but these kids have a ways to go

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Most of these guys are 21-24 years old, not exactly newcomers to the sport. The fact that they have played well in limited starts is a credit to the organization and coaches. No, the vets are not all going to get dumped anytime soon. Nor should they (all).

Guys like Bouma and Byron are NHL players. They aren't any more skilled than Jooris and Granlund. But they bring hard work to the team. It's a long season, so I will cheer for them while they are here, and if they are brought back after some trades are made. Or next season. All I know is that these guys bring fresh air to a team that smelled like a country club locker room; old and stale.

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Most of these guys are 21-24 years old, not exactly newcomers to the sport. The fact that they have played well in limited starts is a credit to the organization and coaches. No, the vets are not all going to get dumped anytime soon. Nor should they (all).

Guys like Bouma and Byron are NHL players. They aren't any more skilled than Jooris and Granlund. But they bring hard work to the team. It's a long season, so I will cheer for them while they are here, and if they are brought back after some trades are made. Or next season. All I know is that these guys bring fresh air to a team that smelled like a country club locker room; old and stale.

And by no means am I saying don't be excited. All I'm saying is let's use some patience and not over selling prospects. I'm very encouraged and excited to but also think that almost all the kids have more to prove and it might not be this year that the likes of Ferland or granlund make it and I think that's ok, but I worry about a lot of the fanbase. It's been a long time since flames fans had young players worth being excited over and my fear is we are gojng to start over selling them and putting undo pressure on them like they did with Sven

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Most of these guys are 21-24 years old, not exactly newcomers to the sport. The fact that they have played well in limited starts is a credit to the organization and coaches. No, the vets are not all going to get dumped anytime soon. Nor should they (all).

Guys like Bouma and Byron are NHL players. They aren't any more skilled than Jooris and Granlund. But they bring hard work to the team. It's a long season, so I will cheer for them while they are here, and if they are brought back after some trades are made. Or next season. All I know is that these guys bring fresh air to a team that smelled like a country club locker room; old and stale.

Agree we cheer who is here. Also agree that 21-24 yrs old isn't too young to play. Heck, some teams (Chicago) have won a Stanley Cup with their stars still on EL contracts. If the prospects prove themselves, and they are, its time to make room and clear out some vets. We're still a long ways from a top level team. Upgrades are needed. Working hard is great, and I applaud them for it. Working hard and being more skilled is even better.

 

And by no means am I saying don't be excited. All I'm saying is let's use some patience and not over selling prospects. I'm very encouraged and excited to but also think that almost all the kids have more to prove and it might not be this year that the likes of Ferland or granlund make it and I think that's ok, but I worry about a lot of the fanbase. It's been a long time since flames fans had young players worth being excited over and my fear is we are gojng to start over selling them and putting undo pressure on them like they did with Sven

Is it a balancing act? Yes. But these kids have been under pressure for years. If they are ready, they are ready. We should not be locked in to some pre-determined schedule of advancement.

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And by no means am I saying don't be excited. All I'm saying is let's use some patience and not over selling prospects. I'm very encouraged and excited to but also think that almost all the kids have more to prove and it might not be this year that the likes of Ferland or granlund make it and I think that's ok, but I worry about a lot of the fanbase. It's been a long time since flames fans had young players worth being excited over and my fear is we are gojng to start over selling them and putting undo pressure on them like they did with Sven

I'm not overselling. The overall skill level of the Flames roster doesn't set as high a bar as other teams. Granlund has played in a skill league against men, and showed no less skill in last season's callup. Sven has showed the ability to compete in the NHL. Johnny has responded well to the start of the season. Sure, they all may tail off. But, isn't the hardest thing to just be able to make your presence known? Johnny, Markus, and Josh have done that. Given how Sven's career has been to date, I don't think we have blinders on thinking they are the new hope. Just that they might be that some day. Both Johnny and Jooris feel that they are here as long as they provide that spark.

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Sometimes you just look at a kid and know he's going to be a good hockey player. To me Johnny and Emile both have that quality. They play the game the right way, they dominate with speed and skill and you can just see that they have the intangibles needed to be pros....

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And by no means am I saying don't be excited. All I'm saying is let's use some patience and not over selling prospects. I'm very encouraged and excited to but also think that almost all the kids have more to prove and it might not be this year that the likes of Ferland or granlund make it and I think that's ok, but I worry about a lot of the fanbase. It's been a long time since flames fans had young players worth being excited over and my fear is we are gojng to start over selling them and putting undo pressure on them like they did with Sven

 

I can only speak for myself. My concerns with the Flames lack of roster flexibility isn't about right now.  Before Burke arrived Wideman was the only contract that went beyond 15/16.  We had a lot of flexibility.  I didn't like Feaster, but he did to a tremendous job of creating us cap and roster flexibility.  But since Burke has arrived we have added Smid, Stajan, Bollig, Engelland, Raymond, and Brodie.  At least four of those guys would be tough to move.  It hurts our flexibility.  

 

I am an advocate of around three prospects making the team each season during a rebuild and two making the team at other times.  Obviously that varies based on prospect readiness, but you need a trickle of prospects to avoid having to introduce too many in one season.  

 

Last season we saw Monahan, Colborne, and Bouma graduate.  This season I think Granlund, Jooris, and Gaudreau should be here to stay.  If we can't do that because the prospects aren't ready then no big deal.  But if we can't do that because we lack the roster flexibility that is an issue.  Especially since its a problem that doesn't look like it will be solved in the next couple of seasons due to a couple of immovable contracts.  

 

Just to be clear though, I am not suggesting the sky is falling.  Those three guys are all getting ice time now and I think the Flames will make it work.  I just think the Flames need to be careful who they make long term commitments to because the guys with the long contracts aren't the right kinda guys IMO and in many cases I would rather see a kid in their place.  

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I'm not overselling. The overall skill level of the Flames roster doesn't set as high a bar as other teams. Granlund has played in a skill league against men, and showed no less skill in last season's callup. Sven has showed the ability to compete in the NHL. Johnny has responded well to the start of the season. Sure, they all may tail off. But, isn't the hardest thing to just be able to make your presence known? Johnny, Markus, and Josh have done that. Given how Sven's career has been to date, I don't think we have blinders on thinking they are the new hope. Just that they might be that some day. Both Johnny and Jooris feel that they are here as long as they provide that spark.

And I'm not saying you are I'm making general comments not necessarily directed at you.

I don't agree that the hardes thing to do is get noticed, the hardest thing to do is sustain it. Therr are many players that can come up and have a good stint or maybe even a good season. The toughest is proving you belong over the long term.

I can only speak for myself. My concerns with the Flames lack of roster flexibility isn't about right now. Before Burke arrived Wideman was the only contract that went beyond 15/16. We had a lot of flexibility. I didn't like Feaster, but he did to a tremendous job of creating us cap and roster flexibility. But since Burke has arrived we have added Smid, Stajan, Bollig, Engelland, Raymond, and Brodie. At least four of those guys would be tough to move. It hurts our flexibility.

I am an advocate of around three prospects making the team each season during a rebuild and two making the team at other times. Obviously that varies based on prospect readiness, but you need a trickle of prospects to avoid having to introduce too many in one season.

Last season we saw Monahan, Colborne, and Bouma graduate. This season I think Granlund, Jooris, and Gaudreau should be here to stay. If we can't do that because the prospects aren't ready then no big deal. But if we can't do that because we lack the roster flexibility that is an issue. Especially since its a problem that doesn't look like it will be solved in the next couple of seasons due to a couple of immovable contracts.

Just to be clear though, I am not suggesting the sky is falling. Those three guys are all getting ice time now and I think the Flames will make it work. I just think the Flames need to be careful who they make long term commitments to because the guys with the long contracts aren't the right kinda guys IMO and in many cases I would rather see a kid in their place.

I guess I jusg don't see 4 contracts as that big a deal and I think the trade off you get with the veteran presence and allowing them to wait and mature is worth it. The contracts you speak about or small enough commitments that if they fell down the depth chart it's not a big deal at all do IMO thd flames still have a great deal of flexibility going forward.

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First off all, a lot of assessments are being made way too early on. People are talking like Granlund has arrived and he's played 9 career NHL games. Gaudrea has less the 20 NHL games to his credit, Ferland has yet to complete a game and Porier has yet to see NHL ice. There is a lot of talent here yes and it's exciting but let's let it prove itself before we annoit it and start talking about moving all vets out. There is a reason you go and get established NHL players and it's because you can't always assume or bank on rookies. The odds of all of these players having long careers in the NHL or sticking full tine is not high and even if they do there is nothing wrong either having them wait. It's encouraging yes, but these kids have a ways to go

I've gotta agree with cross here. We don't have to run ahead of ourselves, there really isn't much point in it right now.

We aren't at a point where we have to make room for Granlund, Baertschi, Ferland, Poirier just yet. There's room in the A.

We all want them to be better options, but there's no point in nailing them to the cross with it. Looking 2 years down the road I'd think all of these players make the jump, and at that point, they are still young players a few years away from prime years.

 

Through camp and up until now, Jooris looks like the one player who has made the jump. Why and how? He said it himself. He stated mgmt told him to focus on doing the little things all over the ice. He came to camp and showed that he really focused on that. He should have made the team off the hop. It's much to his credit that he is proving to be very coachable and that he's on this team by his own merit.

Gaudreau is still early in his learning curve and up in the air imho. Basically, I wonder what the best way to develop him is. He isn't a bane to the roster, so perhaps the best path is the one we're on, but I'm uncertain.

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The prospects that looked ready in pre-season and limited duty are just that; prospects.  How they perform at this level over the course of their callup or extended stay will help get a better idea of the surpluses we have on the team.  If they can't sustain it, no big deal; they weren't 100% ready.  They can go back knowing what the good and not-so-good things were.

 

If they maintain their current pace for an extended period of time, it is a different discussion.  Jooris is starting at a better pace than Kevin Hayes.  Granlund is starting off where he left off last year.  Johnny is the guy that stirs the pot.  I would rather see (for now) Jooris with Sven and Byron, than Setoguchi; gives you two different looks at center.  Seto can play 4th line minutes and build his value there. 

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Man, Poirer with another two assists tonight. In 4 AHL regular season games (dating back to last season) he has 4 goals and 4 assists for 8 points.

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Man, Poirer with another two assists tonight. In 4 AHL regular season games (dating back to last season) he has 4 goals and 4 assists for 8 points.

 

Another good pick by Feaster and co.  Can't down on the guy for bringing guys like him and JH to the mix.

 

When he hits the Flames RW, its going to be a show.

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I'm just salivating thinking of a line with Gaudreau-Bennett-Poirier. That speed, skill, and toughness with Poirier (and to an extent Bennett) is just terrifying.

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