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The Official Monahan Thread

Monahan staying the right choice?  

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  1. 1. Monahan staying the right choice?



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Well I watched the games and he was playing well but he did play "small" then again against that Yotes game the whole fricking team looked kinda small .... *shrug*

As for not going to the Heat, why can't he go there (he's never played for them so it wouldn't be going "back"). My understanding of the AHL rule is that a player has to be 18 by September 15 of any given season to be eligible to play.

From what I can tell he didn't sign a one way deal of any kind and should be age Eligible unless the OHL and AHL have some sort of side agreement on player movement and ages.

They do have a rule in place. The age limit for Jr. eligible drafted players to play in the A is 20.

18 for other players, such as Europeans coming over.

It's to help the CHL retain high quality players for their own business.

I've seen the rule posted a lot.. maybe i'll try to find it..

Here ya go...

There is a private agreement in place between the NHL and the CHL that governs when a player coming from the CHL can play in the AHL. A player from the CHL has to either turn 20 by December 31st of the season (ie a player born in 1993 can start playing in the 2013-14 season, a player born in 1994 can start playing in the 2014-15 season etc.) OR have completed 4 seasons of junior eligibility.

This agreement also covers European players if they are drafted out of the CHL. Also - CHL players are eligible to play in the AHL once their junior season is over (either by virtue of their junior team not making the playoffs or being eliminated from the playoffs) even if they don't yet meet the age or eligibility criteria listed above.

College players and European players (provided they are drafted out of Europe--even if they later play in the CHL) are not covered by this agreement. They only have to abide by the AHL's age requirement, which is that a player has to turn 18 by September 15 of any given season to be eligible to play. While you won't see many 18-year olds in the AHL, some European players have played at that age (e.g. Niklas Bergfors)

Further clarification:

According to Rich Hammond (LA Kings reporter), a player must play 25 games for a season to count as a "full" CHL season.

http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/2008/08/eligibility-question.html

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I voted that he stays. The 9 games will be the bench mark for him. I think his motivation is to not go back to the O. He would have to take some major steps backwards to not make the team.

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I watched him play live twice. From what I saw he is our best center. He may not me the flashest player on the ice, or the fastest player on the ice, but his hockey sense is off the charts. This kid makes plays with the puck that are so smart, not even the vets make them. He wins face-offs against the best in the league, and knows how to conserve his energy. I saw him behind on the rush, but then I saw him out skate every to stop a breakaway. He's in wicked shape, can play the pp, and the pk. He can also play very long shifts against guys like Nash and Richards and shut them down. He'll stay for sure, He's one of our best players and he's my age!

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I do not think he plays timid or soft but smart, and I think he has such a good defensive game and works hard on his face offs that he will stay and be fine. His positioning will help him get the offence, not flashy but it will be there. Just look at the last game, in the right spots at the right time, almost had a couple goals, the bounces will come.

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From watching the pheonix game it seemed whenever he was unsure of what to do in the O zone he would slide a wrister on net, which is awesome, we have scored a lot of broken play and garbage goals, which is how we are going to have to play to win some games this year, but i wouldnt mind him going back to juniors after 9 games and reinforcing his leadership skills while developing some poise. That being said, his drive alone to play in the nhl this year, and the abilities he has shown that stem from that make me wanna reward him and keep him in the nhl. Basically i am fine either way, he is the kind of player that will make himself better no matter what road he takes. 

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Him staying may at least open up room for one of Horvat/Shinkaruk/Gaunce on Team Canada's WJ squad.

Monahan was close to a lock for making it I understand.

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I do not think he plays timid or soft but smart, and I think he has such a good defensive game and works hard on his face offs that he will stay and be fine. His positioning will help him get the offence, not flashy but it will be there. Just look at the last game, in the right spots at the right time, almost had a couple goals, the bounces will come.

Good positioning and defense requires good hockey sense. 

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If I recall correctly Feaster said something to the effect that, even if he made the Flames, they would let him play in the World Juniors.

 

I believe that quote was specifically towards Selioff, but I could be wrong

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If I recall correctly Feaster said something to the effect that, even if he made the Flames, they would let him play in the World Juniors.

Other than people freaking out about draft position, the only con to the Flames hovering around the playoff bar at mid season would be Monahan missing the WJr's.

As much as any organization wants their players to experience something like that, trying to win games seems to always take priority... either way it would become a hugely controversial and heatedly debated topic...

can you imagine the Flames are sitting 2-3 pts out and Monahan is scoring at a decent 0.3-0.5 PPG pace... the optics of sending him down would scream 'TANK!'.. I don't think that would sit well with media and some fans. hardcore ones - no prob... but optics for the majority - not good.

But no one really expects that anyway do they.

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Other than people freaking out about draft position, the only con to the Flames hovering around the playoff bar at mid season would be Monahan missing the WJr's.

As much as any organization wants their players to experience something like that, trying to win games seems to always take priority... either way it would become a hugely controversial and heatedly debated topic...

can you imagine the Flames are sitting 2-3 pts out and Monahan is scoring at a decent 0.3-0.5 PPG pace... the optics of sending him down would scream 'TANK!'.. I don't think that would sit well with media and some fans. hardcore ones - no prob... but optics for the majority - not good.

But no one really expects that anyway do they.

Wasn't there the same talk about the Oilers holding either or both of Hall & RNH back from that experience?

Considering the end result of both seasons the kid would have been better off playing in the WJC.

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Wasn't there the same talk about the Oilers holding either or both of Hall & RNH back from that experience?

Considering the end result of both seasons the kid would have been better off playing in the WJC.

 

Exactly.  We can learn an incredible amount from Edmonton on how Not to rebuild.    We should almost thank them.

 

Absolutely, any time your youth have a chance to compete in playoffs/championships, you give them that chance.  Maybe they wouldn't both be injury prone if a little more time was put in their development rather than leading the first-line rush in Edmonton to next year's first round pick.

 

I forget who said it on these boards, it might have actually been Flyerfan:  "I never seen a player's development hurt by staying a little longer in junior.  I have seen a lot of player's development hurt by being rushed into the NHL."

 

For the very same reason that so many people on here are excited about Monahan, I think we should keep him in junior.  We should keep him there Because he's that valuable.    And the World Juniors?   It goes without saying.

 

The last time we rushed a player with this much potential was.....a long time ago.  The closest would be Mikael Backlund.   Maybe not the Flame's best move.  But man, did Backlund ever look good in that first preseason...

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Him staying may at least open up room for one of Horvat/Shinkaruk/Gaunce on Team Canada's WJ squad.

Monahan was close to a lock for making it I understand.

 

If there is anyone on the Team Canada roster that is a lock to make the team, it has to be Monahan. He's easily the best center on the camp roster not named Connor McDavid. Add in his two-way game and leadership, and he would probably take the 1st line center position even if it wasn't a weaker year up front for the Canadians.

 

Honestly, I don't think you have to worry about Horvat/Shinkaruk. Odds are good they'll make the team with or without Monahan. Horvat also brings that grit and two-way play while Shinkaruk is arguably Canada's top offensive option on the wing. Unless they crap the bed it'll be hard to turn them down.

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I think we should be happy with the fact that he's had a great training camp, and look forward to a great junior season from him.

 

There is very little he can actually offer the Flames this season, despite how well he's played for his age.

 

If we want a top-6 player out of him, the we should put him in a league where he'll be getting first-line minutes.

 

I agree with you JJ, I just think that we should give him the opportunity to keep playing him Top-3 minutes and I like the idea of not burning a year on his Entry-Level contract. He will play Top-6 next year on the Flames roster. 

 

Will the Flames release him to play WJC if they keep him up? I think it's a great idea for him to play, and to play against that level of talent would help him more in the tournament. How have hockey players faired going from the NHL to the WJCs to play against the younger players after playing with men? From recollection, it hasn't really been that great, but I could be wrong. :)

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Although my head tells me the best decision for the Flames and player long term is to go back to juniors I don't think there is a golden rule for dealing with prospects straight out of junior.  I think it depends on the player and the situation.  

 

In this situation the player has the physical and emotional maturity for the NHL.  His junior team isn't very good.  The Flames are looking at aggressively getting back into contention.  We our rebuilding and our Centre depth is pretty bad (it isn't like this guy is trying to unseat Crosby/Malkin/Sutter).  Etc.  

 

More importantly I think you need to be careful that when a prospect catches the carrot that you have been dangling in front of them that you let them have a bite.  In other words you can't tell a prospect to do certain things, have that prospect achieve those things, and than tell him you are deciding to return him to junior because he is still junior eligible and you don't want to burn a year on the ELC.  That is telling the prospect there was nothing he could have done to make the team and that the possibility of an NHL spot was a lie.  It kills your credibility and it ruins trust.  

 

I think this is a situation where he has earned his NHL taster and you have to give that to him.  If he earns more than 9-games then you have to give him that.

 

As fans we can debate on the hypothetical "best way to develop a prospect".  But we don't have to deal with the human factors.  The Flames do and if Monahan earns the right to play in the NHL then he should get that right.

 

That all said I still think he ends up back in junior.  I have liked his game but I don't see him beating out Backlund, Stajan, Colborne, Galiardi, Horak, etc for a top 9 spot on the roster.  But if he does than the Flames have to give him a spot.     

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Well stated and I agree. Is Monahan ready sure, is he going to have an impact now, no, in the future absolutely. Facts are that as good as the prospects are management was never going to place them on this team. The prize in all of this was the 9 game chance, he deserves at least that.

Although my head tells me the best decision for the Flames and player long term is to go back to juniors I don't think there is a golden rule for dealing with prospects straight out of junior.  I think it depends on the player and the situation.  

 

In this situation the player has the physical and emotional maturity for the NHL.  His junior team isn't very good.  The Flames are looking at aggressively getting back into contention.  We our rebuilding and our Centre depth is pretty bad (it isn't like this guy is trying to unseat Crosby/Malkin/Sutter).  Etc.  

 

More importantly I think you need to be careful that when a prospect catches the carrot that you have been dangling in front of them that you let them have a bite.  In other words you can't tell a prospect to do certain things, have that prospect achieve those things, and than tell him you are deciding to return him to junior because he is still junior eligible and you don't want to burn a year on the ELC.  That is telling the prospect there was nothing he could have done to make the team and that the possibility of an NHL spot was a lie.  It kills your credibility and it ruins trust.  

 

I think this is a situation where he has earned his NHL taster and you have to give that to him.  If he earns more than 9-games then you have to give him that.

 

As fans we can debate on the hypothetical "best way to develop a prospect".  But we don't have to deal with the human factors.  The Flames do and if Monahan earns the right to play in the NHL then he should get that right.

 

That all said I still think he ends up back in junior.  I have liked his game but I don't see him beating out Backlund, Stajan, Colborne, Galiardi, Horak, etc for a top 9 spot on the roster.  But if he does than the Flames have to give him a spot.

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If he stays I would bet he produces more points then Sven and plays more games. Of course playing more games would contribute to more points the only way I c Sven keeping up is if they play on same line then I think we would have a pretty good line those two and perhaps Cammi or hurdler could be fun to watch

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If he stays I would bet he produces more points then Sven and plays more games. Of course playing more games would contribute to more points the only way I c Sven keeping up is if they play on same line then I think we would have a pretty good line those two and perhaps Cammi or hurdler could be fun to watch

I agree with you for the most part. I too believe that if Monahan stays with the team he will put up more points than Baertschi. Where I don't agree is your suggested line. You would need a bigger winger to play with them other than Hudler or Cammy. We lack a true power forward winger to play with the skilled guys. This is what I hope Calgary can go out and acquire in the way of a trade.

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you could be right My thinking was more to experience than strength so if we do go with a power forward he would have to have a good deal of NHL experience to help mentor as well as intelligence on the ice. He will have to lead as example to help teach the young guns

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Sorry to go off topic, 

 

I am really surprised at the hate-on for Beartschi.   He said right from the start of summer that his goal was training camp, and the preseason.  

 

People got upset because he didn't do what they expected prior to training camp.

 

In the preseason, Baertschi has 3 points in 4 games.  That's good for 60 points in a season.  Exactly the upper end of what is expected of someone with his talent and age.   Exactly like he said he was going to do.

 

He has a blocked shot, he did well on the power play, he's only going to get better, and quite frankly, he's picking right up where he left off after his 7 game point streak last year.  He's not a complete player.  Very few his age are.  But, believe it or not, Monahan's not a complete player yet either.  

 

Sean Monahan DID play better than Baertschi in the preseason, but that does Not mean this would continue into the regular season.  At all.

 

It's the preseason, and the guys who have the most to prove usually do the best, and are given the most minutes.

 

Monahan had a fantastic preseason.   But realistically, he hasn't even had a breakout year in junior yet.

 

I'd hate to have everyone on this thread dissapointed if Monahan is given 9 NHL games and doesn't end up our scoring leader.

 

To take a few pre-season games and project Monahan to dominate over Beartschi, totally undermines all of Baertschi's achievements, and also shows a complete misunderstanding of how to interpret the preseason.

 

Baertschi has turned the jets on at the exact same pace he said he was going to.  He is perfectly healthy, contrary to all speculation and fear-mongering leading up until now.

 

If he remains healthy, Baertschi will be a rookie of the year candidate.   And, like it or not, he still has one more gear, which we are all going to see when the regular season starts.

 

You can hate him for staging his performance and not blazing in with all gears.  But keep in mind that NONE of the other veterans on this team have turned it on yet either.   Nor have most veterans across the entire NHL yet.  So, please don't single him out.

 

Personally, I think he showed wisdom beyond his years by staging himself.   It is absolutely crucial that he stays healthy.  This is his biggest test, and so far he has passed.   In doing so, he's also proved a Lot of people on here and elsewhere wrong so far.

 

Although they are entirely different players, I still compare Baertschi, in terms of value to this team, to Iginla.  And maybe they're not entirely different either.  Both have an edge.  Both are defensively weak.   Both have the ability to rise and dominate a game like very few can.

 

And for any of you old enough to remember Iginla's 2nd NHL season, Baertschi is likely going to beat him.

 

Back to Monahan:  He's had a great preseason and may get the 9 games.  But he needs to be in the WHL this year.  This is his chance to be a superstar, something that's escaped him in junior.   And that's the kind of player we need as well.

 

And one more time....if Monahan doesn't light things up these first 9 games, it doesn't make him our worst prospect.  Just a heads up.  I would hate for people to dismiss him the way Baertschi's been dismissed early on here.

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Now that the flames have acquired Jole Colburne I  wouldn't be surprised if they send Monahan down after 9 games. Before he was our best center, but now the flames can afford to send him down after a good stint in the nhl because they have a young nhl experienced big body center. I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe the flames didn't have a choice before, but to keep Sean up because of their lack of nhl ready Centers, but now Joel is here they can afford to "season" him. I would't be mad if they pulled a tyler seguin and kepted him up giving him minimum minutes, btu send him down to the world juniors when the time comes, and bring him back up.

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Mono Had a decent game. I would have liked to have seen him take more face offs in our zone, but I guess Hartley was sheltering him and easing him into the nhl. He got around 12 minutes of playing time which is normal for a 3rd liner. I think that he could have prevented that ovi goal off the face off with a face off win. He was 44.4% in the face offs which isn't bad compared to Nathan Mickkinon's 14%. solid game for Sean

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Mono Had a decent game. I would have liked to have seen him take more face offs in our zone, but I guess Hartley was sheltering him and easing him into the nhl. He got around 12 minutes of playing time which is normal for a 3rd liner. I think that he could have prevented that ovi goal off the face off with a face off win. He was 44.4% in the face offs which isn't bad compared to Nathan Mickkinon's 14%. solid game for Sean

That was backlund who lost that draw where Ovie scored

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