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kehatch

Prospect Rankings

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I really dont think our forwards were as dependable offensively, yes we finished 6th and how much of our offense came from our D. Having a second scoring line, and one more D man can change this team.

 

We had at least 8 forwards who scored more than 10 goals.  Three of our D-men scored over 10 goals and Russell had 34 points.  Scoring was not our issue. Only 4 games we were shut out in, two were 4-0 and 2 were 1-0.

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We had at least 8 forwards who scored more than 10 goals.  Three of our D-men scored over 10 goals and Russell had 34 points.  Scoring was not our issue. Only 4 games we were shut out in, two were 4-0 and 2 were 1-0.

 

And how many games did raymond, jones, jorris etc go without scoring a goal? if you look at successful teams they have multiple consistent scoring threats. 3 of those forwards played on the same line(monys line), having a consistent second scoring line is an issue.

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I agree with DirtyDeeds regarding FO%.  That problem was painfully evident during the playoffs, especially during PP and PK.  We couldn't buy a face-off win when we needed one.

 

Bouma started life as a centreman.  I've often thought that he could be an extremely valuable asset if he could put up positive face-off numbers.  As it stands right now, I think Stajan is our only regular centre with positive numbers.  I don't know where he finished up in the playoffs, but at one point he was >59%. 

 

For me, our greatest needs are 5, 6 and 7 defensemen.  We also need a legit RW for our second line.  (Poirier should fit the bill in a year or two, but I'd like to see him start the season in the AHL)

 

Goaltending is another interesting dilemma.  Their numbers are decent, but both of our incumbents make me squirmy.  In the last game in particular, Ramo seemed to over-commit on every save, only to be gravely out of position if there was a rebound.  I'd like to see Ortio get one more year of development in the AHL, but I think we're going to end up moving either Ramo or Hiller in order to make room for Ortio.  To be honest, none of our goaltending options have me doing back-flips.

 

Lastly, there are three regular players who I'd like to see simply disappear.  There was a fourth player on LTIR that I'd like to see go away as well.

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And how many games did raymond, jones, jorris etc go without scoring a goal? if you look at successful teams they have multiple consistent scoring threats. 3 of those forwards played on the same line(monys line), having a consistent second scoring line is an issue.

 

Injuries derailed some of Raymond's success this year, since he was replaced by Jooris.  Backlund admitted he didn't get his rhythm until January.  We have a good talent base, and line combos will fit them in the right place to maximize scoring.  

 

Anaheim did not have any better 2nd line scoring than we did.  They were similar.  Their 1st line accounted for the majority of scoring.  A couple of guys had break-out seasons.

 

I would tend to juggle the lines to bring in some rookies (Bennett, Poirier) and fit them in with more experienced players.

Johnny/Bennett/Hudler

Granlund/Mony/Poirier

 

Or something like that.  Johnny and Bennett had some chemistry, and Hudler is that stabilizing force.  Mony needs some options and having Poirier to go to the net or drive the play would help.  Granlund adds some defensive responsibility and is an alternate C.  He has also played LW.

 

I can't see our offense drying up anytime soon, but we have to keep it fresh, so teams can't simply shut down Johnny/Mony/Hudler, even though most nights it was impossible.  If Johnny can score in the playoffs, he can score against any team.

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Im not saying our offense would dry up. Just simply that we could have used a better second line in the 2nd round. Our bottom 9 was mostly a mix of players who could play in the bottom 6 on most successful teams. Having bennett, poirier and someone else as the second line of the future would solve alot of problems. Im just spitballing, Belesky and kesler were much more successful for much of the series then say bennett and backs were, or backs and colborne

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The Wheaties were defeated tonight, so Roy and Klimchuk are done for the season.

We have until June 1st to sign Roy, so I hope that BT takes care of that. Seeing as our depth of D prospects currently in NA is thin, Roy should be a priority. He looked both good on offense and defense. He plays his size. He can go to the AHL next season. Losing him would be a waste.

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The Wheaties were defeated tonight, so Roy and Klimchuk are done for the season.

We have until June 1st to sign Roy, so I hope that BT takes care of that. Seeing as our depth of D prospects currently in NA is thin, Roy should be a priority. He looked both good on offense and defense. He plays his size. He can go to the AHL next season. Losing him would be a waste.

 

He'll be acquired and I have no doubt that will happen.  He needs work, but no sense on letting a capable youngster who hasn't played a single pro game walk yet.

 

As for Klimmer, I keep forgetting about him.  Seems to be one of those players that does everything right, but isn't flashy.  Forgettable if you will...

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He'll be acquired and I have no doubt that will happen.  He needs work, but no sense on letting a capable youngster who hasn't played a single pro game walk yet.

 

As for Klimmer, I keep forgetting about him.  Seems to be one of those players that does everything right, but isn't flashy.  Forgettable if you will...

 

Klimchuk has numbers that don't jump out like McDavid's, but his usage suggests that he is probably the key guy on their team; played when needing a goal, or when needing to lock it down.  Think of Backlund on LW.  Yes, he is not a flashy guy, but make no mistake, he will be given a key role on the Heat, similar to Bill Arnold's role.

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Klimchuk has numbers that don't jump out like McDavid's, but his usage suggests that he is probably the key guy on their team; played when needing a goal, or when needing to lock it down.  Think of Backlund on LW.  Yes, he is not a flashy guy, but make no mistake, he will be given a key role on the Heat, similar to Bill Arnold's role.

 

I wonder how this summer goes for him and now that he will be coming into camp healthy, if he can steal a spot next year. He plays a solid two way game, its gunna be an interesting training camp/young stars tournament.

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I wonder how this summer goes for him and now that he will be coming into camp healthy, if he can steal a spot next year. He plays a solid two way game, its gunna be an interesting training camp/young stars tournament.

 

This will be the first year that he has been healthy going into the summer (knocks on wood).  Unless he lights it up, I would expect him to start his pro career in the AHL.  Paired with Billy Arnold (assuming he doesn't make it out of camp either), the two could be one of the best defensive pairs on the Heat that can provide decent scoring.  On the Flames, they could be a really good 3rd line pair.

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This will be the first year that he has been healthy going into the summer (knocks on wood).  Unless he lights it up, I would expect him to start his pro career in the AHL.  Paired with Billy Arnold (assuming he doesn't make it out of camp either), the two could be one of the best defensive pairs on the Heat that can provide decent scoring.  On the Flames, they could be a really good 3rd line pair.

Thats what I was thinking. Although I wouldnt be suprised to see them both pushing for spots next year and be the last cuts in training camp.

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I'd like to see them both play a full season in the AHL without any significant injuries.

 

That would give the Flames a much better read on these two prospects..

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I'd like to see them both play a full season in the AHL without any significant injuries.

 

That would give the Flames a much better read on these two prospects..

I think that BT will be looking at a callup for Arnold very early in the season, if he doesn't manage to earn a spot. BT talked about him as though he would have been the next to get the call around the time of the injury.

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The Wheaties were defeated tonight, so Roy and Klimchuk are done for the season.

We have until June 1st to sign Roy, so I hope that BT takes care of that. Seeing as our depth of D prospects currently in NA is thin, Roy should be a priority. He looked both good on offense and defense. He plays his size. He can go to the AHL next season. Losing him would be a waste.

So what was the thinking of lettng Roy go back into the draft if he was good both ways, and has size. What did the Flames not see that you did? Or did something change with him?

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So what was the thinking of lettng Roy go back into the draft if he was good both ways, and has size. What did the Flames not see that you did? Or did something change with him?

 

I can't answer as to the Flames reasons.  There has been speculation (on FN) that he didn't improve over the years since being drafted.

It may have been that he didn't accept the offer a year ago, and the Flames did not want to up the offer this year.  It may have been the signing of Nakadl and Morrison, or the emergence of Kanzig, or the possibility of getting Rafikov to play here, or the fact that he was an over-ager and really didn't stand out above the crowd.

 

The reasons above are plausible, but one would think that you draft a player and give him a shot at proving himself as a pro, not as an over-ager on a junior team.  They signed basically every other draft pick from his draft year forward, so there may be some other reason.

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I can't answer as to the Flames reasons.  There has been speculation (on FN) that he didn't improve over the years since being drafted.

It may have been that he didn't accept the offer a year ago, and the Flames did not want to up the offer this year.  It may have been the signing of Nakadl and Morrison, or the emergence of Kanzig, or the possibility of getting Rafikov to play here, or the fact that he was an over-ager and really didn't stand out above the crowd.

 

The reasons above are plausible, but one would think that you draft a player and give him a shot at proving himself as a pro, not as an over-ager on a junior team.  They signed basically every other draft pick from his draft year forward, so there may be some other reason.

Both the Flames and Heat are crowded with D at the moment, pending changes before next year.  Kulak even had to play in the ECHL last year...  Roy didn't distinguish himself and got passed by by several others.  We need to UPGRADE.  Too bad for Roy.

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Here is my updated list following the draft:

 

  1. Bennett: (Plays like: Doug Gilmour, Type: Top line offensive forward)

  2. Poirier: (Plays like: Chris Kreider, Type: Top 6 offensive winger)

  3. Ferland: (Plays like: Milan Lucic, Type: Power forward)

  4. Gilles: (Plays like: Ben Bishop, Type: Goalie)  

  5. Klimchuk: (Plays like: Ryan Callaghan, Type: Two way winger)

  6. Ortio (Plays like: Mikka Kiprusoff, Type: Goalie)

  7. Granlund: (Plays like: Jussi Jokinen, Type: Top 6 playmaking forward)

  8. Hickey: (Plays like: Duncan Keith Type: Physical shut down defender)

  9. Smith: (Plays like: Ryan Clowe, Type: Physical power forward)

  10. Arnold: (Plays like: Dominic Moore, Type: Defensive energy forward)

  11. Morrison: (Plays like Mark Giordano , Type: Mobile two way defender)

  12. Andersson: (Plays like: Dennis Wideman, Type: Offensive defender)

  13. Kylington: (Plays like: TJ Brodie, Type: Offensive defender)

  14. Jankowski: (Plays like: Joe Nieuwendyk Type: Top six centre)

  15. MacDonald: (Plays like: Steve Mason Type: Goalie)

  16. Wotherspoon: (Plays like: Chris Butler, Type: Depth d-man)

  17. Culkin: (Plays like: Roman Josi, Type: Mobile d-man)

  18. Karnaukhov: (Plays like: Joe Colborne, Type: Physical two-way centre )

  19. Rafikov: (Plays like: Fedor Tyutin, Type: Two way D)

  20. Sieloff: (Plays like: Brooks Orpik Type: Physical shut down defender)

  21. Ollas-Mattsson: (Plays like: Nicklas Grossmann Type: Big shutdown D)

  22. Mangiapane: (Plays like: Johnny Gaudreau, Type: Small offensive forward)

  23. Kanzig: (Plays like: Hal Gill Type: Big shutdown D)

  24. Carroll: (Plays like: Andrew Ladd, Type: Physical depth forward)

  25. Bruce: (Plays like: Deryk Engelland, Type: Big shutdown D)

 

Other Prospects:

  1. Kulak

  2. Hanowski

  3. Agostino

  4. Reinhart

  5. Cundari

  6. Van Brabant

  7. Gilmour

  8. Acolatse

  9. Harrison

  10. Ramage

  11. Elson

  12. DeBlouw

 

Due to the pending graduation of Bennett, the previous graduation of Monahan and Gaudreau, and the loss of Baertschi the prospect pool is starting to look a tad shallow. Certainly not as bad as the Sutter era. But not as deep as it has been recently.

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Due to the pending graduation of Bennett, the previous graduation of Monahan and Gaudreau, and the loss of Baertschi the prospect pool is starting to look a tad shallow. Certainly not as bad as the Sutter era. But not as deep as it has been recently.

 

Yup.  We still need that RW prospect.  Possibly through a trade. 

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Yup.  We still need that RW prospect.  Possibly through a trade. 

 

I would say we are weak at nearly every position.  

 

We have lots of young centres on the main club, but once Bennett graduates that is looking pretty shallow.  Once Ferland graduates you have Klimchuk on the left and Poirier on the right.  Not much beyond that.  D is a LOT deeper after this draft, but we still don't have any AAA prospects at the position.  Goal looks decent enough with Ortio (soon to graduate), Gilles, and MacDonald.  

 

It isn't bad.  And our pool is a victim to its own success since we have been successful graduating them.  In fact, having an average prospect pool after we graduated so many people is a big kudos to the organization.  But I am looking for the next group of ELCs that are going to supplement Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Hamilton, Brodie, and Backlund once they are all making real money.  

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It isn't bad.  And our pool is a victim to its own success since we have been successful graduating them.  In fact, having an average prospect pool after we graduated so many people is a big kudos to the organization.

 

 

Totally agree with you on this one.

 

 

But I am looking for the next group of ELCs that are going to supplement Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Hamilton, Brodie, and Backlund once they are all making real money.

 

 

A Backlund type could well develop out of our current prospects.

Gaudreau & Brodie were great scouting and/or lucky 4th round picks. Replicating those two may be tough but not impossible.

Monahan & Bennett required drafting low and having them slide a few positions, we may not or may not see that for a while.

Hamilton was good asset management, players were moved for picks while they still had value.

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I would say we are weak at nearly every position.  

 

 

How about, average?   But the truth is, that's okay considering the age of the team.  We're going to have very low turnover these next few seasons.  Only a limited number of retirements.

 

RW is an exception, because we don't have anyone in the pipes, OR on the Flames.

 

Every other position, we either have youth filling it on the Flames, or prospects coming up shortly.

 

I would agree that we should start building depth at every position at the prospect level.   And maybe we should be taking some risks on college signings, or the undrafted, to get there (ie., sign 5 longshots, one turns out.  that's about all we need).

 

RW, however, is an exception.  We need a young stud RW.  That is something which did NOT come out of our rebuild.

 

We may have to lose a veteran or two to do it.  The likes of wideman, Hudler,  goalies etc.

 

We already spent our 2015 draft pick on Hamilton (and we had to).   

 

I only see this coming one of three ways:

  • Free agent signing
  • Longshot development
  • Trade (likely involving a veteran)

Of the three, for that position and our timelines, I think a trade makes the most sense.

 

But yeah, we could use some additional prospect depth everywhere else (like most other teams at the prospect level)

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One of the downsides of the Hamilton trade, we robbed our prospect pipeline to be better next yr instead of 3 yrs down the road.

With pick 15, we could have drafted Mathew Barzal (RHS center who you likely convert to RW), Daniel Sprong (RHS RW) or Vince Dunn (LHS D) at 45, and Jonas Siegenthaler or Jeremy Bracco at 52.

With the other picks we made our prospect pipeline would be immensely deeper, especially at D, but we also would have added some high end forward talent.

I'm not questioning the trade, just highlighting how big the impact this year's draft would have had on our prospect pool if we'd simply made the picks. Quite certain we'd be floating to the top of THN's Future Watch ranking.

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One of the downsides of the Hamilton trade, we robbed our prospect pipeline to be better next yr instead of 3 yrs down the road.

With pick 15, we could have drafted Mathew Barzal (RHS center who you likely convert to RW), Daniel Sprong (RHS RW) or Vince Dunn (LHS D) at 45, and Jonas Siegenthaler or Jeremy Bracco at 52.

With the other picks we made our prospect pipeline would be immensely deeper, especially at D, but we also would have added some high end forward talent.

I'm not questioning the trade, just highlighting how big the impact this year's draft would have had on our prospect pool if we'd simply made the picks. Quite certain we'd be floating to the top of THN's Future Watch ranking.

 

We didnt really rob the pipeline cause hamilton should be locked up long term and is only 22 years old. But I see what you are saying in a way. We take barzal, sprong and dunn lets say, none of those are surefire.

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Despite our recent success of Monahan and Bennett, the prospect pool is there for future benefit. It gives us access to replacement players so we can stay relevant. It gives us access to impact players on cheap contracts via ELC deals which is essential to being a contender.

That isn't to say that the Hamilton deal was a bad idea. It was a great idea and solved so many issues for us. But losing those picks did hurt in terms of updating our prospect pool.

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How about, average?   But the truth is, that's okay considering the age of the team.  We're going to have very low turnover these next few seasons.  Only a limited number of retirements.

 

RW is an exception, because we don't have anyone in the pipes, OR on the Flames.

 

Every other position, we either have youth filling it on the Flames, or prospects coming up shortly.

 

I would agree that we should start building depth at every position at the prospect level.   And maybe we should be taking some risks on college signings, or the undrafted, to get there (ie., sign 5 longshots, one turns out.  that's about all we need).

 

RW, however, is an exception.  We need a young stud RW.  That is something which did NOT come out of our rebuild.

 

We may have to lose a veteran or two to do it.  The likes of wideman, Hudler,  goalies etc.

 

We already spent our 2015 draft pick on Hamilton (and we had to).   

 

I only see this coming one of three ways:

  • Free agent signing
  • Longshot development
  • Trade (likely involving a veteran)

Of the three, for that position and our timelines, I think a trade makes the most sense.

 

But yeah, we could use some additional prospect depth everywhere else (like most other teams at the prospect level)

 

How about, average?   But the truth is, that's okay considering the age of the team.  We're going to have very low turnover these next few seasons.  Only a limited number of retirements.

 

RW is an exception, because we don't have anyone in the pipes, OR on the Flames.

 

Every other position, we either have youth filling it on the Flames, or prospects coming up shortly.

 

I would agree that we should start building depth at every position at the prospect level.   And maybe we should be taking some risks on college signings, or the undrafted, to get there (ie., sign 5 longshots, one turns out.  that's about all we need).

 

RW, however, is an exception.  We need a young stud RW.  That is something which did NOT come out of our rebuild.

 

We may have to lose a veteran or two to do it.  The likes of wideman, Hudler,  goalies etc.

 

We already spent our 2015 draft pick on Hamilton (and we had to).   

 

I only see this coming one of three ways:

  • Free agent signing
  • Longshot development
  • Trade (likely involving a veteran)

Of the three, for that position and our timelines, I think a trade makes the most sense.

 

But yeah, we could use some additional prospect depth everywhere else (like most other teams at the prospect level)

Wow, I'm confounded that you guys can go so quickly from the elation of the draft weekend back into negativity and worry.  Calgary had before the draft one of the top-rated (#2 overall) prospect pools in the NHL and with the Hamilton pick-up for picks only and the excellent draft, that likely isn't going to change much, if any.

 

Our D prospects now look very good-excellent with the recent multiple additions in the draft(not even counting Hamilton), plus Yevenko in Stockton and oh yes, you forgot Nakladal.  RW the same, though you forget Shore and Hathaway above, and includes Smith and Carroll and multiple C that can switch over, as well as Louick Marcotte in Stockton.  C was boosted with Mangiapane who rightly was compared to Gaudreau but, hey his same-age stats are significantly better than JH.  LW boosted with Kaurnakov and likely Wolf who you also forgot.  And BTW Agostino should be way up the chart...

 

If you look at ALL the prospects it looks far, far better.  We have so many you can't even remember them all and left off several likely to make the Flames this Fall (Nakladal, Shore...).  Things are looking way, way up and we'll see what develops further this week.  Exciting times!

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