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kehatch

Prospect Rankings

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How about, average?   But the truth is, that's okay considering the age of the team.  We're going to have very low turnover these next few seasons.  Only a limited number of retirements.

 

RW is an exception, because we don't have anyone in the pipes, OR on the Flames.

 

Every other position, we either have youth filling it on the Flames, or prospects coming up shortly.

 

I would agree that we should start building depth at every position at the prospect level.   And maybe we should be taking some risks on college signings, or the undrafted, to get there (ie., sign 5 longshots, one turns out.  that's about all we need).

 

RW, however, is an exception.  We need a young stud RW.  That is something which did NOT come out of our rebuild.

 

We may have to lose a veteran or two to do it.  The likes of wideman, Hudler,  goalies etc.

 

We already spent our 2015 draft pick on Hamilton (and we had to).   

 

I only see this coming one of three ways:

  • Free agent signing
  • Longshot development
  • Trade (likely involving a veteran)

Of the three, for that position and our timelines, I think a trade makes the most sense.

 

But yeah, we could use some additional prospect depth everywhere else (like most other teams at the prospect level)

Wow, negative, negative.  We already have Poirier, Smith and Hathaway/Carroll nearly ready to go and I bet there's going to be a COUPLE of studs in that group.

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I am not so worried about our prospect pool as a whole.  There are guys there that are viewed as bottom 6, but could develop a much higher ceiling.  Janko is a guy that could easily be a top 6 LW.  He is being played as a 2-way center currently, and is doing ok for a guy just filling into his big frame.  Or he could be a bust.

 

Poirier is a top 6 RW in the making.  He was used mostly as a 4th line player on the Flames, so it would be hard for him to excell at that position; much like Bouma excelled on the 2nd line but was not great offensively on th 4th line.

 

Klimchuk h potential to be  top 6 LW.  He as known for 2-way play, so you have the option to play him offsnively as well.  All round, a better player than Sven.

 

Our D prospects are at present underrated, as they are mostly unproven in the pros, or are not close to the typical age for their ceiling. 

 

We don't have any top 20 draft picks in our prospect pool right now, but most teams graduate those fairly quickly.  I would say we still have one of the better pools right now.  I am excluding this years' picks, as the best ones will play right away, and the good ones will likely go back to junior.  Nobody in this class has played a single pro game, so I am reluctant to call any of them home runs (exception of the top 5). 

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I agree there is way too much negativity towards the Flames prospect pool. Bennett will likely come out of the rankings yes but even if he does I would still suggest that you've got a prospect pool that will be ranked in the top 10-15 range across the NHL. I think having a prospect pool that its the top half of the league AND now boasting one of the most impressive rosters Under 25 in the NHL, I would may even say thee best, I think is all very impressive.

 

Yes they are lacking some impact guys but that's going to happen when you graduate them. What they do have is depth, they've got depth at centre, they've got depth in net, now they've got depth across the blueline and while yes traded the picks to get Hamilton hurt you've still got next year first and now because they are so young at the NHL level they can pull off a Detorit model and let some later round picks develop. I think now that the Core is starting to develop the Flames are going to have plenty of options when it comes to depth down the road because they kids will grow up at their own pace and not need to be rushed. I'm very happy with where the organization sits in both NHL roster level and in the prospect pool. No organization has all of their needs in their prospect pool ready to go and ready to fill roster holes down the road, that's why you have trades and FA so I think setting an expectation that we need a stud RW in our prospect pool is not realistic. Prospect pool is all about stocking options and depth so you have flexablity down the road just like having depth and picks allowed them to make the Hamilton trade.

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Here is my updated list following the draft:

  • Bennett: (Plays like: Doug Gilmour, Type: Top line offensive forward)

  • Poirier: (Plays like: Chris Kreider, Type: Top 6 offensive winger)

  • Ferland: (Plays like: Milan Lucic, Type: Power forward)

  • Gilles: (Plays like: Ben Bishop, Type: Goalie)

  • Klimchuk: (Plays like: Ryan Callaghan, Type: Two way winger)

  • Ortio (Plays like: Mikka Kiprusoff, Type: Goalie)

  • Granlund: (Plays like: Jussi Jokinen, Type: Top 6 playmaking forward)

  • Hickey: (Plays like: Duncan Keith Type: Physical shut down defender)

  • Smith: (Plays like: Ryan Clowe, Type: Physical power forward)

  • Arnold: (Plays like: Dominic Moore, Type: Defensive energy forward)

  • Morrison: (Plays like Mark Giordano , Type: Mobile two way defender)

  • Andersson: (Plays like: Dennis Wideman, Type: Offensive defender)

  • Kylington: (Plays like: TJ Brodie, Type: Offensive defender)

  • Jankowski: (Plays like: Joe Nieuwendyk Type: Top six centre)

  • MacDonald: (Plays like: Steve Mason Type: Goalie)

  • Wotherspoon: (Plays like: Chris Butler, Type: Depth d-man)

  • Culkin: (Plays like: Roman Josi, Type: Mobile d-man)

  • Karnaukhov: (Plays like: Joe Colborne, Type: Physical two-way centre )

  • Rafikov: (Plays like: Fedor Tyutin, Type: Two way D)

  • Sieloff: (Plays like: Brooks Orpik Type: Physical shut down defender)

  • Ollas-Mattsson: (Plays like: Nicklas Grossmann Type: Big shutdown D)

  • Mangiapane: (Plays like: Johnny Gaudreau, Type: Small offensive forward)

  • Kanzig: (Plays like: Hal Gill Type: Big shutdown D)

  • Carroll: (Plays like: Andrew Ladd, Type: Physical depth forward)

  • Bruce: (Plays like: Deryk Engelland, Type: Big shutdown D)

Other Prospects:

  • Kulak

  • Hanowski

  • Agostino

  • Reinhart

  • Cundari

  • Van Brabant

  • Gilmour

  • Acolatse

  • Harrison

  • Ramage

  • Elson

  • DeBlouw

Due to the pending graduation of Bennett, the previous graduation of Monahan and Gaudreau, and the loss of Baertschi the prospect pool is starting to look a tad shallow. Certainly not as bad as the Sutter era. But not as deep as it has been recently.

It looks like we need to shed a bunch of contracts. How many are on NHL deals?

Although, some are still going to play in Jr.

I think it looks like maybe losing 4 or 5 of those players works.

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Apparently the RFA qualification is supposed to be completed for all teams by 3pm MT.  I'm trying to track some of them down, but in any case it won't be long before we see where ours are headed.  As per usual I'd suspect there may be a few options for the Flames from others' lists too.

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Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg 27m27 minutes ago

The 12 players qualified are: Jooris, Shore, Bouma, Ferland, Byron, Hamilton, Van Brabant, Arnold, Wolf, Agostino, Reinhart, Elson. Flames

 

 

Not getting QO were John Ramage, Sena Acolatse and Ben Hanowski.

 

Only surprise for me was Ramage not getting a QO but I could see them doing what they did with Byron and sining him in FA. they may have balked at a one way deal. I personally wouldn't have given Byron one but I'm not upset that they did.

 

I don't disagree with the decision to not QO Hanowski but both is it sure putting into perspective just how bad a job Feaster did in the Iginla trade....

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Not getting QO were John Ramage, Sena Acolatse and Ben Hanowski.

Only surprise for me was Ramage not getting a QO but I could see them doing what they did with Byron and sining him in FA. they may have balked at a one way deal. I personally wouldn't have given Byron one but I'm not upset that they did.

I don't disagree with the decision to not QO Hanowski but both is it sure putting into perspective just how bad a job Feaster did in the Iginla trade....

A little surprised about Ramage as he was voted best defenseman in Adirondack last year. Hanowski doesn't surprise me at all, he just isn't a good enough skater to play. Byron is a coach favorite and I think he earned his QO.

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I agree there is way too much negativity towards the Flames prospect pool. Bennett will likely come out of the rankings yes but even if he does I would still suggest that you've got a prospect pool that will be ranked in the top 10-15 range across the NHL. I think having a prospect pool that its the top half of the league AND now boasting one of the most impressive rosters Under 25 in the NHL, I would may even say thee best, I think is all very impressive.

 

I agree we are in that range in terms of our prospects, though I have us more in the 15 to 20 range once Bennett graduates.  I also agree its very impressive that we are maintaining that with our best guys being promoted.  I also really like some of our prospects.  With Ferland close to graduating Arnold replaces him as my favorite low profile prospect.   I also really like Morrisson and Hickey.  Plus we still have our other 1st rounds from the Monahan draft, and Gilles is turning into a top goalie prospect.  There is lots to like.  

 

My point is that we still need to build it though.  We need the next crop of Brodie's and Gaudreau's so we have these impact players supplementing the roster while on ELCs.  My other point is that giving up 3 top 60 picks in this draft does hurt our prospect pool.  Most other teams just got a lot better with this deep draft. Though we did REALLY good with the picks that we had. (And Hamilton is DEFINITELY worth the price we paid).  

A little surprised about Ramage as he was voted best defenseman in Adirondack last year. Hanowski doesn't surprise me at all, he just isn't a good enough skater to play. Byron is a coach favorite and I think he earned his QO.

 

I have never liked Ramage so I am fine with it.  Also, it is really rare someone demoted to the ECHL makes it to the NHL, especially with the club that did the demoting.  That said, i am surprised as well.  It sounded like the Flames were happy with his progress.  

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Not getting QO were John Ramage, Sena Acolatse and Ben Hanowski.

 

Only surprise for me was Ramage not getting a QO but I could see them doing what they did with Byron and sining him in FA. they may have balked at a one way deal. I personally wouldn't have given Byron one but I'm not upset that they did.

 

I don't disagree with the decision to not QO Hanowski but both is it sure putting into perspective just how bad a job Feaster did in the Iginla trade....

 

Add into that Cundari, who is likely to leave as an UFA....

The only saving grace to the trades is Agostino, Poirier and Klimchuk.  Can't forget about Berra that became Hunter Smith.

 

I doubt anyone signs Ramage as an UFA, so he may end up doing a Byron-like signing in FA.

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I am interested to hear opinions on what our prospects' rankings are these days.  We added Andersson, Kylington, Mangiapane, Karnaukhov and Bruce.  We also now have Morrison, Marcotte, and Derek Grant.  We lost Reinhart and Sven.  I still see Granlund and

Shore as prospects, though.

 

So, our prospects would include Ortio, Granlund, Wotherspoon, Jankowski, Seiloff, Gillies, Kulak, Culkin, Poirier, Klimchuk, Kanzig, Rafikov, Gilmour, Bennett, McDonald, Smith, Hickey, Ollas-Mattsson, Carroll, Andersson, Kylington, Mangiapane, Karnaukhov and Bruce.  Also Morrison, Marcotte, and Grant.  Maye even add Hathaway and Baillie (assuming he may be signed, since he really impressed). 

 

I really have a hard time even ranking the d-men.  I thought Spoon was our top guy, but he must be doing something wrong, as he couldn't even get more than one NHL game last season.

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I too am baffled when it comes to rating our D prospects.

 

As you say, Wotherspoon appears to have faltered in his development or his relationship with the coaches.

 

IMO, Sieloff, Kulak, & Culkin have until the end of their contracts to show they belong in the NHL (2016/2017).

 

Bruce, Gilmour, Hickey, Kanzig, Kylington, Morrison & Nakladal are still unknowns at the pro level as yet.

 

We have little idea when we might even see Andersson, Ollas-Mattsson, & Rakikov on this side of the pond.

 

None of the Flames D prospects jump out at me as a future Top 4 D so far.

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I have Hickey, Morisson, Kylington, and Anderson as our top D by a fair margin. In that order. I think Hickey is one of our top prospects. In fact, I currently have him ranked as our top prospects after Bennett.

After that I have (in order) Wotherspoon, Culkin, Rafikov, Kulak, Gilmour, Sieloff, Kanzig, then Bruce.

I know many have Wotherspoon higher. I don't like him. I think he will be a marginal NHLer at best. Though I always hope to be wrong with those.

I don't consider Nakladal as a prospect as he is 27.

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Agreed on Wotherspoon. Personally I've never liked him and didn't like the pick. I will give him some credit that I think shoulder injuries have really stalled his development so I don't think anyone should write him off just yet but the problem I have with him is what NHL calibre skill does he bring it the table? Everything in his game is just ok nothing stands out and I think that makes him really tough to fit into the NHL. He's big, but not physical so in a shutdown role it doesn't really work. He has a good first pass but not a good enough skater or risk taker to really rush the puck etc etc. this is a huge year for him because now he has been healthy for a full offseason and needs to come into camp in great shape ready to compete.

I would agree with how Kehatch ranks hen especially on hickey. I would stil lean towards Porier being the flames best prospect but I don't think hickey is far behind at all. I don't have a compete list of prospect rankings because I haven't seen enough of them lately but I would defiantly go Porier 1 and Hickey 2. Probably Gilles 3 and then it would take a bit of a drop to the next set. I think Porier, hickey, and Gilles are in a bit of a class by themselves in the Flames prospect pool.

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1. Sam Bennett - For obvious reasons.

2. John Gillies - He has all the potential to be a star calibre net minder.

3. Billy Arnold - Perfect 3-4 center that will probably be able to fit into the top 6 when needed, to many NHL qualities to list.

4. Emilie Poirer - Took a minute to adjust to the AHL but statered late in the season.

5. Some Swedish Dmen/Brandon Hickey - Not sure which one I like best, saving my judgement till I get a better look.

6. Morgan Kilimchuck - Does he take a shot at the memorial cup or come to Stockton?

7. One of the really, really big kids - Probably the forward but all 3 are long shots.

8. Kenny Augustino - I like what he did last year with the heat, could be a great fit on the 3rd one day.

9. Morrison - Havent seen enough of him yet or he may be further up this list/

10. Everyone else... and Jankow  :huh:

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I'll try and take a stab at this.

1. Sam Bennett: C/LW - Not a super flashy player like Gaudreau (Though I have seen him pot a few highlight-reelers) just a really, really good hockey player.

3. Brandon Hickey: D - Smooth skater. Plays a style of game comparable to T.J. Brodie's. Loads of potential.

4. Kenney Morrison: D - Have changed my initial opinion of Morrison after watching some video and doing plenty of research. This guy is a stud D in the making. Good at everything.

5. Emile Poirier: RW/LW - Gritty forward who makes up for his lack-in-size with blistering speed. Looked a little out-of-place last season in his short stint in Calgary, but still very young at only 20. Needs to work on his play in his own end. Has the ability to make plays at top-speed and could be a very effective top 6 winger in the near future.

6. Oliver Kylington: D - Elite skating ability gives him the opportunity to jump into the rush a lot, and he does. Play in his own end leaves something to be desired, but the sky's the limit when considering offensive potential.

7. Jon Gillies: G - Big frame covers up a lot of the net. Add his athleticism and poise in net, and he is (in my opinion) one of the better goalie prospects in the league.

8. Morgan Klimchuk: LW - Two-way forward with more offensive ability than initially thought, by some. Has a great wrist shot, quick release, accurate, and very adept at getting a shot off in traffic.

9. Rasmus Andersson: D - Another guy that's just all-around good at everything a la Morrison. Very steady D with offensive flair.

10. Andrew Mangiapane: LW - Another late-round small guy with unreal offensive skill. Could be one of the more important picks of this draft with his sleeper potential.

I remember a few years ago when we couldn't even really talk about exciting prospects. Great time to be a Flames fan.

 

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It may be a little easier to break down the prospects into position.

 

Best goalie prospects:

Ortio/Gillies - both are prospects, but at least Ortio has pro experience

 

Best Center prospects:

Sam Bennett

Billy Arnold (Backlund's replacement)

 

Best D prospects:

Morrison

Kylington

Hickey

Andersson/Mattsson (toss up, though they are completely different styles)

Spoon (he has pro experience, but may never be able to make the team during his time here)

 

Best Winger prospects:

Agostino (almost a p/gp down the stretch)

Klimchuk

Grant (for some reason, I think this guy may have the stuff - consisten AHL player, though a LHS center means he competes with lots)

Smith (needs to add more speed, but he is built for the pro league)

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When did we trade Jankowski?

You're right I completely forgot about Janko. I think he'd slot in between Poirier and Oliver in my list. He looked really good in camp this summer. Very interested to see how he does in his final college year.

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When did we trade Jankowski?

 

Left him off my center list for a reason.  I still feel he is 3rd at that position, so he might end up at LW.  A strong defensive LW is never a bad thing to have.  Just don't know where he fits with the other wingers in that case.

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I have to clean up my projections a bit, but right now I have Jankowski at 14. He probably moves up a bit after a really good development camp. But I don't have him top 10.

Personally I think he is a bust. I think history is a great indicator of the future, and it's tough to find players in his situation that turned into solid NHL players. It was really disappointing to see him regress offensively in his third year.

That said, if he makes it (and he could) I think he will be a very good player. I think for him to make it he will need to breakout this season. He is set up to do that. We will see if it happens. My money says no, but I hope I lose that bet.

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I have to clean up my projections a bit, but right now I have Jankowski at 14. He probably moves up a bit after a really good development camp. But I don't have him top 10.

Personally I think he is a bust. I think history is a great indicator of the future, and it's tough to find players in his situation that turned into solid NHL players. It was really disappointing to see him regress offensively in his third year.

That said, if he makes it (and he could) I think he will be a very good player. I think for him to make it he will need to breakout this season. He is set up to do that. We will see if it happens. My money says no, but I hope I lose that bet.

 

It's kind of early to call a player a bust, when he is playing a top defensive role on a team known for its defense.  History is like advanced stats; good at showing how results fit a pattern, but bad at predicting outcome.

 

He has always been a long-term project, so I expect him to need at least a year in the AHL.  He will just be 21 when he signs with the Flames, and turning 22 just before the 2016/17 season.  I do hope that the Flames try to turn him into more of an offensive forward, though. 

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It may be a little easier to break down the prospects into position.

 

Best goalie prospects:

Ortio/Gillies - both are prospects, but at least Ortio has pro experience

 

Best Center prospects:

Sam Bennett

Billy Arnold (Backlund's replacement)

 

Best D prospects:

Morrison

Kylington

Hickey

Andersson/Mattsson (toss up, though they are completely different styles)

Spoon (he has pro experience, but may never be able to make the team during his time here)

 

Best Winger prospects:

Agostino (almost a p/gp down the stretch)

Klimchuk

Grant (for some reason, I think this guy may have the stuff - consisten AHL player, though a LHS center means he competes with lots)

Smith (needs to add more speed, but he is built for the pro league)

 

Where's Poirier?

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I have to clean up my projections a bit, but right now I have Jankowski at 14.

Please do.

But first, read the 1st couple pages and look for Jooris being ranked last May (2014). Occasional, very occasional, at 20-25.

Now think of Hathaway lol. Might be the next to graduate after Bennett imho.

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