CheersMan

Flames Defense

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I think to are dreaming if you think you are gettkng Gio for less then 7 mill on any term. Gio is worth probably 8-8.5 right now and will be for the next 5 years because the cap is not going down any time soon. I'd like see a 5 year deal in the 8 mill range and then an opportunity to do 1 year deals after that like the wings did with Lindstrom

Dollar was at 92 cents for bulk of last season. Since the start of the season it has dropped to 78 cents. Thats a drop of about 16%. Canada accounts for 36% of the revenue of the NHL give or take. So just from the loonie alone the entire revenue is dropping 6-7% or about 250-300 million dollars. ~10 mil per team. 50% goes to players so you have a net negative effect of ~5 million on per team revenue. That will have a significant impact on the cap and 8 yr contracts that looked like they were going to get cheaper as the cap goes up suddenly dont look as attractive.

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I think to are dreaming if you think you are gettkng Gio for less then 7 mill on any term. Gio is worth probably 8-8.5 right now and will be for the next 5 years because the cap is not going down any time soon. I'd like see a 5 year deal in the 8 mill range and then an opportunity to do 1 year deals after that like the wings did with Lindstrom

I don't disagree with you and hope we can sign him for 5 years at about $7mm per AAV. If he went UFA he'd get more, but I think he values his current position and team more than the money (kind of like Doughty) and would stay with a fair offer. I believe he's also wise enough to realize you need a team for success and signing a monster contract (ie Kessel, Phaneuf) hurts the team in the long run.

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Dollar was at 92 cents for bulk of last season. Since the start of the season it has dropped to 78 cents. Thats a drop of about 16%. Canada accounts for 36% of the revenue of the NHL give or take. So just from the loonie alone the entire revenue is dropping 6-7% or about 250-300 million dollars. ~10 mil per team. 50% goes to players so you have a net negative effect of ~5 million on per team revenue. That will have a significant impact on the cap and 8 yr contracts that looked like they were going to get cheaper as the cap goes up suddenly dont look as attractive.

There was an interesting article yesterday I believe on TSN theorizing the NHL could raise the Salary Cap even if the players voted to keep it the same (current speculation, escrow concerns). I don't like the idea and think it should stay level or go down, as that's the best way to keep GM's in check . Either of those options is going to seriously impact some top-level teams (Chicago, LAK, Boston) and perhaps the league office is feeling pressure from teams to raise it?

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I think to are dreaming if you think you are gettkng Gio for less then 7 mill on any term. Gio is worth probably 8-8.5 right now and will be for the next 5 years because the cap is not going down any time soon. I'd like see a 5 year deal in the 8 mill range and then an opportunity to do 1 year deals after that like the wings did with Lindstrom

 

He is worth that for sure. I doubt he asks for that much. He will likely sign for a shade under $7m, just for the sake of the team, to prevent any future cap-hell situations. TBH, I think he feels that he is truly lucky to play/captain a team like the Flames, so anything more than he is making is a bonus. If you offered him 5x$7m, I think he would smile, sign, excuse himself, and be yelling "Start the car, start the car!".

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Interesting. Brodie is basically unchanged (15ish second difference), all the others have gone up a lot except Diaz.

 

I'd like to see him and Schlemko given a little more ice time. They've performed pretty well, lets see what they can do with say 15 minutes a night. If its bad, cut it back again.

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I think to are dreaming if you think you are gettkng Gio for less then 7 mill on any term. Gio is worth probably 8-8.5 right now and will be for the next 5 years because the cap is not going down any time soon. I'd like see a 5 year deal in the 8 mill range and then an opportunity to do 1 year deals after that like the wings did with Lindstrom

 

Totals man.

 

Giordano is a top 5 Dman in the NHL right now and is in a defenseman's prime (30-to-35-years-old).  He's going to get offers in the $8 to $8.5-mil range.  I'm thinking/hoping the Flames can give him term and bring that cap hit down to something like $7.25-mil-per. 

 

Yes, he will get paid more than most younger D in his level but by the time those young D have contracts due, they will make in the $10-mil range due to further inflated salary caps and rising salaries to match. 

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Personally, I'd like to keep the term to 5 years but am willing to pay more ($8M range) to do so .

 

If the Flames offer more term, I'd prefer to see the $ go down in the last couple of years.

 

I hate seeing defense-men in their late 30s  making first pairing money, when they have been slowed to 3rd pairing by declining skill/pace.

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Our bottom pairing is very weak. I prefer Diaz with brodie and Derek on the third, but it really doesn't solve the issues on defense. I would have liked to see some of our younger guys on the roster like Wotherspoon or Patrick . I feel they would have done a better job the Slemko  

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Dollar was at 92 cents for bulk of last season. Since the start of the season it has dropped to 78 cents. Thats a drop of about 16%. Canada accounts for 36% of the revenue of the NHL give or take. So just from the loonie alone the entire revenue is dropping 6-7% or about 250-300 million dollars. ~10 mil per team. 50% goes to players so you have a net negative effect of ~5 million on per team revenue. That will have a significant impact on the cap and 8 yr contracts that looked like they were going to get cheaper as the cap goes up suddenly dont look as attractive.

And yet the cap is going up next season despite the dollar. Don't forget too the World Cup of hockey is going to inject a lot of money into the NHL coffers too. I don't expect the cap to shoot up in the next little while but I think you will see it rise every year to some degree.

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I'm not going to bash Gio or suggests he is a bad guy but I think it's a bit of a fantasy to say things like oh he is so thankful to be the captain he'll do the flames a favor or that he's such a nice guy he would never sign a big deal. This is the same guy who didn't blink when the flames balked at his one way deal ask and despitr the fact that he should have been thankfull to the flames he told them to pound sand and went to Russia. He gets this is a business and don't forget you could easily argue he already did the flames a favor with his last contract. This is his last chance, IMO, at a big contract and I think he is smart enoigh to realize that and cash in and he absolutely deserves too. I could see him making a small discount but to me a smal discount is 7.5 mill because he's worth over 8.

I have zero problem paying Gio 7.5 to 8 for the next 5 years that is the cost of business in the NHL, you pay your stars and Gio is a star.

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And yet the cap is going up next season despite the dollar. Don't forget too the World Cup of hockey is going to inject a lot of money into the NHL coffers too. I don't expect the cap to shoot up in the next little while but I think you will see it rise every year to some degree.

The key is to what degree. These 8 year contracts to young guys have been handed out in years where there is significant cap growth year over year. If that tapers it severely impacts the desirability to extend those contracts at big dollars

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The key is to what degree. These 8 year contracts to young guys have been handed out in years where there is significant cap growth year over year. If that tapers it severely impacts the desirability to extend those contracts at big dollars

Maybe but I don't see it. Agents are gojng to continue to argue that as long as their is growth in the cap then the percentage of players against the cap will continue to decrease and therefore justify teams that are paying their superstars big dollars. Not to mention I can guarantee you if the flames don't want to pay Gio 8 mill there will be plenty of teams that will.

Unless the cap the cap actually contracts and decreases in value I don't think you'll see the stars and top players punished. I think of the cap was stagnant or not growing it's bad for depth players and the second tier free agents. IMO, teams will always make room to pay their stars and their top players, it's the secondary pieces they try to budget for.

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I'm not going to bash Gio or suggests he is a bad guy but I think it's a bit of a fantasy to say things like oh he is so thankful to be the captain he'll do the flames a favor or that he's such a nice guy he would never sign a big deal. This is the same guy who didn't blink when the flames balked at his one way deal ask and despitr the fact that he should have been thankfull to the flames he told them to pound sand and went to Russia. He gets this is a business and don't forget you could easily argue he already did the flames a favor with his last contract. This is his last chance, IMO, at a big contract and I think he is smart enoigh to realize that and cash in and he absolutely deserves too. I could see him making a small discount but to me a smal discount is 7.5 mill because he's worth over 8.

I have zero problem paying Gio 7.5 to 8 for the next 5 years that is the cost of business in the NHL, you pay your stars and Gio is a star.

I don't have a problem giving him big money. I simply said that I don't think he would look for PK Subban money. Maybe he signs a declining value contract (8,7,6,6,5) or maybe not. He may even ask for a NTC in lieu of big dollars.

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Our bottom pairing is very weak. I prefer Diaz with brodie and Derek on the third, but it really doesn't solve the issues on defense. I would have liked to see some of our younger guys on the roster like Wotherspoon or Patrick . I feel they would have done a better job the Slemko  

If it is only our bottom pairing that is weak, then we don't have "issues" Bottom pairing guys are easy to find and easy to replace and /or develop.

 

It is when we need top pairing D that it becomes "an issue" as there seems to be a shortage of them and teams don't want to trade the ones they have very often.

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Well keep in mind with PK he averages 9 mill a season and got a NTC as well. That's what I'm saying I think people are saying that 7.5 to 8 is the top of Giordanos market and anythjng around 7 is a deal. I'm saying that 7.5 to 8 mill is Gio taking a discount.

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Everyone seemed to roast the Flames defense at the beginning of the year, now we are first in offense from the blueline in the NHL. Not to mention most shot blocks and fewest penalties taken. 

I especially wanna make a shout out to Dennis Wideman. Everyone has be screaming to trade him all season and he has set a career high and is currently 7th in defensive scoring.

 

Also, England is stepping it up in a way that nobody saw coming. The guy isn't just some Bollig/jackman. He actually has abilities and plays an intelligent game. 

We wouldn't be where we are without our defense. We may be lacking solid defense prospects but our defense right now is just fine. 

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Where does a player like this Morrison project to within our D corps ?

I think he could play third pairing as soon as next season. But probably in an IR call up role. I see Culkin and Wotherspoon in the same situation with none making it out of camp if the team is healthy.

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Where does a player like this Morrison project to within our D corps ?

I think he has jumped to the top of our defense prospect list. He might be the most NHL ready. I think he will be pushing for a roster spot next year.

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Everyone seemed to roast the Flames defense at the beginning of the year, now we are first in offense from the blueline in the NHL. Not to mention most shot blocks and fewest penalties taken. 

I especially wanna make a shout out to Dennis Wideman. Everyone has be screaming to trade him all season and he has set a career high and is currently 7th in defensive scoring.

 

Also, England is stepping it up in a way that nobody saw coming. The guy isn't just some Bollig/jackman. He actually has abilities and plays an intelligent game. 

We wouldn't be where we are without our defense. We may be lacking solid defense prospects but our defense right now is just fine. 

 

I don't remember anyone roasting our D at the beginning of the year. They were raving our top4 and that it was of envy of a lot of other teams in the league. After that, they said our bottom pairing tailed off a lot.

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If it is only our bottom pairing that is weak, then we don't have "issues" Bottom pairing guys are easy to find and easy to replace and /or develop.

 

It is when we need top pairing D that it becomes "an issue" as there seems to be a shortage of them and teams don't want to trade the ones they have very often.

 

I don't agree.  It's been said by others, but if you just cycle bottom pairing D-men on your bottom pairing, you will be what we are - a bubble playoff team.  If our third pairing had some second pairing potential / upside, it would move us closer to contender status.  Nashville is the most obvious third pairing strength team, but teams like Chicago, LA, St Louis, etc all have much better D depth than us. 

 

I completely agree with Cross about moving Russel to the third pairing.  You can still get 18+ minutes a night from him on your third pairing (many teams do from their 5th D).  Think of how strong that third pairing becomes with just that change.  Think about the reduction in minutes it gives to the top 4 too, in theory improving their productivity by being less fatigued.  It would also give the team more flexibility with injuries - eg: the Gio injury would not have been as big an issue if you bump Russel up to play with Brodie and keep the second pairing in tact.

 

Russel has had a great season, but if he's our 5th Dman instead of our 3rd/4th, we move that much closer to contender status.  It's not a knock on him, it's just a reality of what it takes to be at the top.

 

I don't remember anyone roasting our D at the beginning of the year. They were raving our top4 and that it was of envy of a lot of other teams in the league. After that, they said our bottom pairing tailed off a lot.

 

Our D was very much roasted at the beginning of the year.  Gio and Brodie were still not viewed the way they are now (remember, it only started to happen last year...many thought their performance last year was an outlier).  They were seen as good, but certainly not one of the best pairings in the league.  Pre-season, the Russel/Wideman second pairing was laughable.  As the season went on, Russel and Wideman proved themselves and Gio/Brodie established themselves as one of the best top pairings in the league.  That's when we started to get some attention. 

 

Just by way of quick example, from NHL.com's preseason predictions http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728988:  "Though there are lots of intriguing young options up front, that is not the case on the blue line. Calgary signed Deryk Engelland to a three-year contract that was panned as one of the worst handed out in early July, but he's likely to be a regular for a team with six defensemen on a one-way contract." (in fact, Smid was projected second line in that article)

 

Or this one...http://thehockeywriters.com/calgary-flames-2014-15-preview-defensemen/:

 

"Well, Brodie and Giordano appear to be the real deal, and they are back! Heck, Mark Giordano – who wasn’t drafted and got brought into the Flames organization as minor league filler – got a lot of votes for the Norris Trophy last season. Brodie’s also rapidly improving.

 

Beyond that, the bottom six is likely to be filled out with Smid, Russell, Wideman and newcomer Deryk Engelland, who provides a nice physical edge if not much offense. The big question at camp is who takes the seventh spot: Wotherspoon (recovering from shoulder surgery), free agent signing Corey Potter (ditto), offensively-skilled try-out Raphael Diaz or big-bodied try-out Sheldon Brookbank. Regardless of which direction the team goes, opposition clubs will likely try to isolate Brodie and Giordano, the only possession threats on the team, as much as possible."

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I just remember listening into the Team1040/TSN1040 Radio here in Vancouver and all of the Insiders they interviewed said Calgary had an enviable Top4 but that bottom two were not very good and makes the team worse. 

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On the year we can say we definitely have a very good top 4 who have stepped up.

 

Despite early-to-mid season performance, Engellend has improved and is a solid bottom pairing guy who will hopefully continue to be good.

 

But we still need one more real top-4 player who can step in during injuries.

 

Smid may or may not play again next year. I like Diaz, but I don't think he resigns. I'd be quite happy to give Schlemko a 1 year contract as he's played well since being claimed and may be a good bottom pairing guy. Potter I hope we don't resign.

 

That gives us the ability to bring up Wotherspoon and see how he does and/or go after one more top-4 guy.

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