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Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

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18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

At the time he signed it, I felt Cha made a huge mistake.  I still don;t like it.

He was McDavid's winger and got paid after McDavid was signed.

If Nuge gets those points totals playing with McDavid, does that mean he's a $8.5m player too, adjusted for inflation?

 

The Oilers keep giving players huge raises and set the benchmark.

It even seems to drive up the cost of D-men league wide.

 

 

And not that I want to defend Chiarelli but Draisatl was excellent in the playoffs and did so mostly centering his own line. That with being drafted as, and playing at times, a center means less compatables and a likely salary bump. All things Tkachuk doesn't have going for him. 

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BT did a great job bringing together a solid group. BT has given BP a ton of options for 4 lines. We haven't seen that in years.

Excited moving forward.

Go Flames Go

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On 2018-08-15 at 3:59 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Ya depends on the number but I think there's a chance Tkachuk can score 40 and ask for Draisaitl money.  So unless we hit him with $8-mil right now, he's probably motivated to wait until next summer.

I generally value fast players more than slow ones. Chucky is not a fast skater although he thinks the game at a higher level than the majority. They bring very different skills, but I think Chucky is as valuable as Draisaitl. The only question I have is whether Edmonton sets the market. They do such strange things up there.

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So the Klimchuk trade closes the book on the Flames rebuild trades. They officially now having nothing to show for either of the Iginla or Jbow trades and the 2013 draft is basically a bust now too, outside of Monahan of course. I get that technically Nielsen could maybe be a find and turn this around but I think it's unlikely. 

 

So Flames officially started a rebuild about 5 and a half years ago. They completely blew their rebuild trades, blew their first draft (especially depressing giving the amount of high picks) and for the most part blew their 2nd draft too. 

 

The fact that they have a competitive team today, let alone a team at the top of their conference is a huge testament to the work of Treliving and the hockey ops. Especially when you consider that they never drafted in the top 3 the entire time. 

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On 11/28/2018 at 10:00 AM, cross16 said:

So the Klimchuk trade closes the book on the Flames rebuild trades. They officially now having nothing to show for either of the Iginla or Jbow trades and the 2013 draft is basically a bust now too, outside of Monahan of course. I get that technically Nielsen could maybe be a find and turn this around but I think it's unlikely. 

 

So Flames officially started a rebuild about 5 and a half years ago. They completely blew their rebuild trades, blew their first draft (especially depressing giving the amount of high picks) and for the most part blew their 2nd draft too. 

 

The fact that they have a competitive team today, let alone a team at the top of their conference is a huge testament to the work of Treliving and the hockey ops. Especially when you consider that they never drafted in the top 3 the entire time. 

 

The majority of the current team was drafted prior to or the year of the rebuild.

Only Tkachuk, Valimaki, Ras, Mangiapane (part timer for now), Bennett and Kylington (part timer) were post start of rebuild.

Monahan was the 1st draft, but we were likely close to that considering how that year went.

 

What has made us competetive is the core that existed before or and have risen during the post Iggy years.

That combined with the trades like Lindy, Hanifin, Hamonic, and some astute FA signings.

I wish we had assets to make additional trades, but by the same token glad we didn't trade for Kane.

The stable is almost empty.

Only by some luck have our later draft picks managed to look like anything more than AHL depth.

Two late 2nd rounders getting NHL minutes and looking okay.

A 4th rounder leading the team.

A 4th rounder looking to spark Neal.

A 4th rounder a #2 D.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

The majority of the current team was drafted prior to or the year of the rebuild.

Only Tkachuk, Valimaki, Ras, Mangiapane (part timer for now), Bennett and Kylington (part timer) were post start of rebuild.

Monahan was the 1st draft, but we were likely close to that considering how that year went.

 

What has made us competetive is the core that existed before or and have risen during the post Iggy years.

That combined with the trades like Lindy, Hanifin, Hamonic, and some astute FA signings.

I wish we had assets to make additional trades, but by the same token glad we didn't trade for Kane.

The stable is almost empty.

Only by some luck have our later draft picks managed to look like anything more than AHL depth.

Two late 2nd rounders getting NHL minutes and looking okay.

A 4th rounder leading the team.

A 4th rounder looking to spark Neal.

A 4th rounder a #2 D.

 

One question that one could ask is, how would the team look if Gaudreau didn’t pan out or was drafted a bit sooner than...  hypothetically, but the Flames look like a very different team without him. 

 

Can we add add to the successes by what Ferland helped us get? He was drafted 2010. If he didn’t look as well as he had on the Monahan line, maybe it doesn’t help land Lindholm.

 

look back to Iginla. Having nothing left from Iginla really actually puts an end to the Nilsson deal that helped land Niewendyk, then Iggy, and that’s it.

 

it’s exciting to see where the team is going. With the cap going to it helps to get Tkachuk signed, breathing room. 

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16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

One question that one could ask is, how would the team look if Gaudreau didn’t pan out or was drafted a bit sooner than...  hypothetically, but the Flames look like a very different team without him. 

 

Can we add add to the successes by what Ferland helped us get? He was drafted 2010. If he didn’t look as well as he had on the Monahan line, maybe it doesn’t help land Lindholm.

 

look back to Iginla. Having nothing left from Iginla really actually puts an end to the Nilsson deal that helped land Niewendyk, then Iggy, and that’s it.

 

it’s exciting to see where the team is going. With the cap going to it helps to get Tkachuk signed, breathing room. 

Just reading these last few posts makes you realize it's taken a long time to get here. I like this team and the quality of players available for most situations now,

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I was surprised when Hextall got fired in Philly that Elliotte Friedman named a handful of people he felt was someone the Flyers could look at and Craig Conroy's name came up.  I don't know.  Do we think or know if Conroy had that much of an influence in our team's current success?  I was always under the impression that he was merely an advisor offering opinion from an ex-NHLer's perspective, an attribute BT doesn't boast himself.  Does Conroy deserve so much credit for the Flames current success that he should be considered a candidate for GM in this league?

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15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

I was surprised when Hextall got fired in Philly that Elliotte Friedman named a handful of people he felt was someone the Flyers could look at and Craig Conroy's name came up.  I don't know.  Do we think or know if Conroy had that much of an influence in our team's current success?  I was always under the impression that he was merely an advisor offering opinion from an ex-NHLer's perspective, an attribute BT doesn't boast himself.  Does Conroy deserve so much credit for the Flames current success that he should be considered a candidate for GM in this league?

All one as to do is look at who PHI's President is and know they will screw up any hiring. I hope Conroy stays where he is, class act and PHI doesn't like these kind of guys.

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17 hours ago, The_People1 said:

I was surprised when Hextall got fired in Philly that Elliotte Friedman named a handful of people he felt was someone the Flyers could look at and Craig Conroy's name came up.  I don't know.  Do we think or know if Conroy had that much of an influence in our team's current success?  I was always under the impression that he was merely an advisor offering opinion from an ex-NHLer's perspective, an attribute BT doesn't boast himself.  Does Conroy deserve so much credit for the Flames current success that he should be considered a candidate for GM in this league?

 

Always hard to define because we don't see the background. He's more involved than simply and advisor though he is the assistant GM. He's run the day to day in Stockton (currently done by Pascall), he's helped run the draft and build the list, and he's handled some contract and trade negotiations. 

 

I'm not personally aware of any stories/players etc that you can directly link to Conroy so it's a tough question to answer but that's true of an assistant in almost any capacity. Enough people have mentioned his candidacy that I think he's generated a certain respect factor around the league in terms of his abilities. 

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Conroy's name has been floated several times in the last couple years when GM positions open up.  I'm not sure how important his current role is, but it isn't just the fan960 talking heads raising his name, so he must be doing something right.

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No matter how you spin it, BT has helped grow the organizational depth, skill and speed of this team. 4 out 6 of our current D core consists of players drafted by the Flames...Brodie,Rasmus, Kylington and Valimaki. It's an impressive showing, we all know how difficult it is to draft a bonafide NHLer, especially defenceman. We've had good showings from our call ups and guys like Janko, Dube and Bennett are proof that we have some balanced drafting and development taking place. 

 

It's nice to have a farm team with talent and purpose, it's a far cry from the Sutter days. 

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59 minutes ago, rickross said:

4 out 6 of our current D core consists of players drafted by the Flames...Brodie,Rasmus, Kylington and Valimaki.

It wouldn't be a far stretch to add Gio to the list. He wasn't drafted, but the only NHL team he's played for (and also AHL team) were the Flames and Flames AHL affiliates. Outside of that year in Russia (which was extremely beneficial to him), the only pro organization he's played for is the Flames. So while it isn't drafted, it is still heavily developed by us.

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With the cap likely going up in the coming years, BT is still one of the better GMs when it comes to contracts. Signing Lindholm at $4.85M looks like an absolute steal right now. I'm not worried about Tkachuks extension, I don't believe he gets anymore than $6.5M which is still manageable. We're getting excellent value from Gaudreau, Monny and Gio right now. Gaudreau is sitting only 3 points back of McDavid but at half the price, I'll take that everyday of the week!

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34 minutes ago, rickross said:

With the cap likely going up in the coming years, BT is still one of the better GMs when it comes to contracts. Signing Lindholm at $4.85M looks like an absolute steal right now. I'm not worried about Tkachuks extension, I don't believe he gets anymore than $6.5M which is still manageable. We're getting excellent value from Gaudreau, Monny and Gio right now. Gaudreau is sitting only 3 points back of McDavid but at half the price, I'll take that everyday of the week!

 

My feeling is about 7-7.5 for Tkachuk. The salaries have changed and we are lucky that we beat them to the higher rates. Timing is on our side with Gaudreau and Monahan.

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49 minutes ago, rickross said:

With the cap likely going up in the coming years, BT is still one of the better GMs when it comes to contracts. Signing Lindholm at $4.85M looks like an absolute steal right now. I'm not worried about Tkachuks extension, I don't believe he gets anymore than $6.5M which is still manageable. We're getting excellent value from Gaudreau, Monny and Gio right now. Gaudreau is sitting only 3 points back of McDavid but at half the price, I'll take that everyday of the week!

 

I think you may be fooling yourself for what Tkachuk would sign for.

Nylander's deal was $7.5m x 6.

Tkachuk is as important (actually more so) to a team.

The deal for Johnny and Monny and things of the past.

Nobody like that signs for those dollars now.

 

If we managed to sign him for 8 years, think closer to Draisaitl.

6 years around the same as Nylander.

Why do that?

Get him locked up.

We are going to have to pay for both Gaudreau and Monahan for their next deals.

BT have zero leverage this time around for them.

 

There's as much chance Tkachuk's p/gp pace slows down, but there's a chance he could maintain it with as good linemstes as JH has.

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2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

My feeling is about 7-7.5 for Tkachuk. The salaries have changed and we are lucky that we beat them to the higher rates. Timing is on our side with Gaudreau and Monahan.

I just don't see Tkachuk getting more than JH, Monny or Gio. I've heard the $7-7.5M numbers floating around. I get the deals JH and Monny signed are value deals in today's terms however Tkachuk has never had more than 50 pts a season, he'll get there this year and him wearing the "A" adds a bit more value but he's still a 2nd line player. Doesn't make sense to pay him more than any of our 1st liners let alone our captain. I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised with the final cap hit. That is if he doesn't go off for the rest of the year...

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think you may be fooling yourself for what Tkachuk would sign for.

Nylander's deal was $7.5m x 6.

Tkachuk is as important (actually more so) to a team.

The deal for Johnny and Monny and things of the past.

Nobody like that signs for those dollars now.

 

If we managed to sign him for 8 years, think closer to Draisaitl.

6 years around the same as Nylander.

Why do that?

Get him locked up.

We are going to have to pay for both Gaudreau and Monahan for their next deals.

BT have zero leverage this time around for them.

 

There's as much chance Tkachuk's p/gp pace slows down, but there's a chance he could maintain it with as good linemstes as JH has.

Nylander is overpaid, Tkachuk does offer more intangibles however Nylander is in that 60-70pts range, whereas Tkachuk has topped out at 49pts. Not saying he's not worth $7M+ but his production has been closer to Backlunds. I guess term will be a big factor in the final numbers but if Nylander is the comparable he's hit the 60 pts plateau atleast twice while Tkachuk has yet to reach 50 pts. 

 

Gotta wonder if the Flames had drafted Nylander if they'd be able have signed him to cheaper extension bring that he was born a Calgarian...?

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25 minutes ago, rickross said:

Nylander is overpaid, Tkachuk does offer more intangibles however Nylander is in that 60-70pts range, whereas Tkachuk has topped out at 49pts. Not saying he's not worth $7M+ but his production has been closer to Backlunds. I guess term will be a big factor in the final numbers but if Nylander is the comparable he's hit the 60 pts plateau atleast twice while Tkachuk has yet to reach 50 pts. 

 

Gotta wonder if the Flames had drafted Nylander if they'd be able have signed him to cheaper extension bring that he was born a Calgarian...?

He's currently 13G/24A/37pts in 32 games.

Just sayin'.

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30 minutes ago, rickross said:

 

Gotta wonder if the Flames had drafted Nylander if they'd be able have signed him to cheaper extension bring that he was born a Calgarian...?

Michael Nylander was a notoriously bad teammate. Gotta figure he was a huge factor in Willie holding out. Don’t think he would take any less here either, maybe it wouldn’t have been as big a deal since we aren’t as big a media market 

 

The Tkachuk negotiation won’t be easy either as he has a father who’s been through it many times 

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22 minutes ago, rickross said:

Nylander is overpaid, Tkachuk does offer more intangibles however Nylander is in that 60-70pts range, whereas Tkachuk has topped out at 49pts. Not saying he's not worth $7M+ but his production has been closer to Backlunds. I guess term will be a big factor in the final numbers but if Nylander is the comparable he's hit the 60 pts plateau atleast twice while Tkachuk has yet to reach 50 pts. 

 

Gotta wonder if the Flames had drafted Nylander if they'd be able have signed him to cheaper extension bring that he was born a Calgarian...?

 

BTW, Tkachuk had 49 in 68 games.

In a season where Backlund has not played well, Tkachuk is already 12 points away from last season's total.  

That's ahead of Tavares' pace.

2 points back of Draisaitl, who just happens to play most nights with McD.

 

While I agree that Willie is overpaid, it's really just this season that he gets that crazy salary.  Next tear is 9 andd the rest are 6.

They needed to do that to make up for lost games.

 

Anyway, it comes down to % of cap these days.

He's about the 3rd most important player long term here.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

He's currently 13G/24A/37pts in 32 games.

Just sayin'.

 Tkachuk is gonna destroy his career best 49pts this year on his current pace....oh crap did I just jinx the kid now??

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1 minute ago, rickross said:

 Tkachuk is gonna destroy his career best 49pts this year on his current pace....oh crap did I just jinx the kid now??

nope.B)

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I think one stat that gets overlooked or perhaps it's underlooked is Tkachuks' ability to draw penalties. It would be pretty cool to see exactly how many PP's he's created for the Flames as it's a major bargaining chip for the kid. I believe he led the league in the stat last year, atleast at some point. He could argue he deserves an assist for each PP they scored on where he drew the penalty. He's an agitator, he has near elite hand eye, he scores and he draws mad penalties...oh he's an assistant captain this year.  Annnnd I might just be helping out Tkachuks agent here....

 

 

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