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Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

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In the current CBA, you can only sign your own players to 8 years, while you used to be able to go longer.  The advantage of the longer term is buying up years of UFA.  Do you want to be in a situation where your top players will end their 2nd contract and go into UFA status?  Underpay them and they won't re-sign with you and take the UFA market route instead.  

 

Tampa signed Stamkos to 5 years.  They have to overpay just to keep him because of that.  They could have opted to buy more years.  McDavid will get whatever.  If he earns the big bucks, he will get 8 years at whatever.  Even for a bum team, he sells.  What that translates to in salary is anybody's guess.  

 

Let's be realistic here.  If Kane was on his 2nd contract today, he would get paid.  The problem is that the cap isn't keeping up with player salaries.  Bouma going to arbitration was potentially a one or two year deal at $2m+. Overpaying for that level of player is harder on the cap than paying a star.  Engelland getting $2.9m.  Wideman getting $5.25m.  Stajan getting $3.1m.  Raymond getting $3.2m.  Smid getting $3.6m.  There are your problem areas; paying too much for depth.  

 

 

oh im in total agreement the depth players need to come down , like i stated on an earlier post , we need about 5- 6 more players making 1M or less to replace most of the names you had above. But the reality now is, and we can coem back and see when it happens, is that if Bennett hits his stride, in 2 years time one of Gio, Bennett, Monahan and Johnny will have to go 

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oh im in total agreement the depth players need to come down , like i stated on an earlier post , we need about 5- 6 more players making 1M or less to replace most of the names you had above. But the reality now is, and we can coem back and see when it happens, is that if Bennett hits his stride, in 2 years time one of Gio, Bennett, Monahan and Johnny will have to go 

 

The reality is that in 2 years, we will only have the following signed:

Johnny

Monahan

Bennett

Gio

Brodie

Hamilton

Frolik

 

Our best prospects will be in or signing their 2nd deals.  There is little chance any of the core has to be moved out.  If our top prospects are earning $6m 2nd contracts, then we have a good problem and depth.  Considering that Brodie signed a value contract, I doubt any defenders get that much in 2 years.  

 

Teams needing to fill out their rosters with value players is nothing unique to the Flames.  You strive to have the best players on your team and only deal away the ones that help you maintain that top team or the ones that don't work out.  We have quite a bit of flexibility to ensure we build and maintain a top team.  This season is the real issue, but can be fixed.

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Expectations:

 

Wednesday/Friday: 2x Flames Buy-outs.... (Smid & Raymond?)

 

Thursday: Coach and Associate Coach announcements....(Rierdon/Gulutzen?)

 

next Tuesday: 8x RFA qualifications.... (Colborne, Jooris, Shore, Ortio, Hamilton, Arnold, Agostino, Wotherspoon)

 

next Wednesday(22nd): Expansion announcement.... (Las Vegas)

 

next Thursday(23rd): 2x Flames Re-signings.... (Gaudreau & Monahan)

 

next Friday(24th):  2x UFA Re-signings.... (Grant & Nakladal);  Goalie Trade Announcement.... (Anderson & Ritchie=Ferland & Switch of 1sts);  Pick Trade.... (CBJ's 3OA=Backlund & Hickey & Colborne);  Draft.... (3OA-Puljujarvi, 24OA-Pascal Laberge?);  Draft Trade.... (3x 2nd Rounders & Wideman=Boston's 14OA-Clayton Keller)

 

OK, a guy can Dream...

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Expectations:

 

Wednesday/Friday: 2x Flames Buy-outs.... (Smid & Raymond?)

 

Thursday: Coach and Associate Coach announcements....(Rierdon/Gulutzen?)

 

next Tuesday: 8x RFA qualifications.... (Colborne, Jooris, Shore, Ortio, Hamilton, Arnold, Agostino, Wotherspoon)

 

next Wednesday(22nd): Expansion announcement.... (Las Vegas)

 

next Thursday(23rd): 2x Flames Re-signings.... (Gaudreau & Monahan)

 

next Friday(24th):  2x UFA Re-signings.... (Grant & Nakladal);  Goalie Trade Announcement.... (Anderson & Ritchie=Ferland & Switch of 1sts);  Pick Trade.... (CBJ's 3OA=Backlund & Hickey & Colborne);  Draft.... (3OA-Puljujarvi, 24OA-Pascal Laberge?);  Draft Trade.... (3x 2nd Rounders & Wideman=Boston's 14OA-Clayton Keller)

 

OK, a guy can Dream...

OK toss the crystalball to the next guy. LOL

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OK toss the crystalball to the next guy. LOL

Exactly, but out of my 22 predictions I'm thinking 50% would be pretty solid.  I guess the main thing is that the next 10 days are LIKELY to be very hectic.  

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A posting on flamesnation.ca says that Smid is not a buyout candidate as he's not fully recovered.  So, I expect that Raymond will be bought out.  Wideman should probably be a little nervous.

 

Edit: the posting was on Darren Haynes' site -> http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/

hmmm.... I thought it was still unclear as to Smid's health?  OK, I guess its LTIR then.

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Is our GM slow ?  I'm getting frustrated how long things are taking to get done.  Took way too long IMO to fire Hartley, then took a long time to to hire the new coach.  Nothing on the Gaudreau / Monahan contract or any other contracts.  Missed out on Andersen.  I'm not going to judge him on any one of these but I see a pattern developing.  I guess one thing is for sure, he's not impulsive !

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Is our GM slow ?  I'm getting frustrated how long things are taking to get done.  Took way too long IMO to fire Hartley, then took a long time to to hire the new coach.  Nothing on the Gaudreau / Monahan contract or any other contracts.  Missed out on Andersen.  I'm not going to judge him on any one of these but I see a pattern developing.  I guess one thing is for sure, he's not impulsive !

 

What is the beef?  He isn't getting it done according to your timeframes?

 

Andersen was not missed out on; he was dealt out of the conference for a 1st round pick this year and a 2nd next year.

 

I will judge him on his results, not the process.  Did he sign Gio to $8m because it didn't require any negotiations or did he take the time to get it right?  Same for Brodie.  Bouma was a misstep, but that's just a few of is that feel that.  It was an overpayment in term and dollars.  He's not going to announce what the contract status is until the big guys are signed.  Right now there is no signed contract.

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I'd much rather a meticulous GM than an impulsive one. Deals you rush into don't tend to work where in many occasions the best deal is the one you don't make.

Goes both ways. Being patient landed them Hamilton.

Personally I think had the flames made the Anderson deal they would regret it. That's a lot of return and cap hit for what I consider an average goalie.

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Is our GM slow ?  I'm getting frustrated how long things are taking to get done.  Took way too long IMO to fire Hartley, then took a long time to to hire the new coach.  Nothing on the Gaudreau / Monahan contract or any other contracts.  Missed out on Andersen.  I'm not going to judge him on any one of these but I see a pattern developing.  I guess one thing is for sure, he's not impulsive !

 

Like Cross said - we didn't miss out on Andersen. The Leafs provided the Ducks an opportunity to ship him out of both the division and conference. All things being equal, why would Anaheim trade Andersen within the division when they don't have to?

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BT can afford to play the long(ish) game for a goalie as the market stands. If supply is greater than demand the cost will go down,not up.If he doesn't feel there is much to choose between some of the available options, aggression won't do you much good. Look at the Andersen deal! His preferred candidate may be a UFA. He may feel the expansion announcement may make more goalies available. I am glad he hasn't lunged for a deal.

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I'd much rather a meticulous GM than an impulsive one. Deals you rush into don't tend to work where in many occasions the best deal is the one you don't make.

Goes both ways. Being patient landed them Hamilton.

Personally I think had the flames made the Anderson deal they would regret it. That's a lot of return and cap hit for what I consider an average goalie.

 

He's certainly meticulous and not impulsive.  I just hope he was in on Andersen and lost because it was a divisional thing...or the price was too high.  Last year I thought we missed out on Talbot and Jones as well and ended up back with Ramo.  I'm nervous that we're sitting here once again in late June with very little as far as goalies go.

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He's certainly meticulous and not impulsive.  I just hope he was in on Andersen and lost because it was a divisional thing...or the price was too high.  Last year I thought we missed out on Talbot and Jones as well and ended up back with Ramo.  I'm nervous that we're sitting here once again in late June with very little as far as goalies go.

 

BT was in on the Andersen deal, but did not get the trade done.  That's not a slight to him.  Hard to compete with a 30th overall if you don't have anything better to offer.  Most people see this as being a shallow draft, so maybe Anaheim sees a player that wouldn't fall to 35.  

 

Talbot's trade got a 57th, a 79th and a 184th overall. 

Jones trade got a 2016 first rounder (29th overall) and Sean Kuraly.

 

We didn't miss out on those really.  Instead we got Hamilton, Andersson and Kylington, plus we have a 6th overall this year.

 

Last June we had Ortio and Hiller signed for the 2015/16 season.  Chillax.  We have until June 30th to trade for a goalie before free agency, then another 2.5 months before camp starts.

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He's certainly meticulous and not impulsive.  I just hope he was in on Andersen and lost because it was a divisional thing...or the price was too high.  Last year I thought we missed out on Talbot and Jones as well and ended up back with Ramo.  I'm nervous that we're sitting here once again in late June with very little as far as goalies go.

 

There's a long time, and lot of stuff, between now and the start of training camp.  Just relax and try to enjoy the ride.

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He's certainly meticulous and not impulsive.  I just hope he was in on Andersen and lost because it was a divisional thing...or the price was too high.  Last year I thought we missed out on Talbot and Jones as well and ended up back with Ramo.  I'm nervous that we're sitting here once again in late June with very little as far as goalies go.

 

All reports indicate Treliving was in on Andreson but the division premium prevented it and I believe it was Conroy on the radio a week or so ago that said they actually thought they had a deal for Jones but it fell apart at the last minute. Rumors had them in on Talbot.

 

I will give you he is slower and very meticulous. Too meticulous? remains to be seen but so far i don't think its cost them. I don't think they've missed on a deal yet and I think they have potetnial to get an even better deal this offseason. More of a buyers market so let's see. 

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All reports indicate Treliving was in on Andreson but the division premium prevented it and I believe it was Conroy on the radio a week or so ago that said they actually thought they had a deal for Jones but it fell apart at the last minute. Rumors had them in on Talbot.

I will give you he is slower and very meticulous. Too meticulous? remains to be seen but so far i don't think its cost them. I don't think they've missed on a deal yet and I think they have potetnial to get an even better deal this offseason. More of a buyers market so let's see.

GMs have access to player contracts like us and perhaps even more of an inside scoop. Knowing that Treliving only signed goalies for us through to this year. So long term forecast may have shown better opportunities this year as well.

Also, the fact we were in on Jones and other goalies shows he is trying but not willing to give up more than he has to. I think it is smart in the long term. The only goalie I wanted from last year would've been Jones and SJS weren't trading within the division. Giving up a 1st two years in a row would be a killer on our future. I wasn't happy about it last year, but majority believe Hamilton to be the better choice... So I defer to that line of thought.

http://www.tsn.ca/salary-cap-for-next-season-set-at-73m-1.512575

The salary cap is set at 73M so we have an idea of what Treliving has to work with.

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I'd much rather be slow and meticulous to give up something relatively small that we can afford, for something relatively good that may not be a game-breaking goalie, but will be able to get us into the playoffs. 

 

We do't have a lot of assets that are expendable that have value. The only position we have developed depth at is Center, and that's the one position that's most essential for our future success. Otherwise we're selling picks or prospects that we don't want to lose. 

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BT has got me worried.

 

The Brouwer deal feels like he was pushed into a corner, (similar to the Engelland contract)

Letting Colbourne walk at 2.5 m. will haunt.

Hopefully he doesn't lose Nakladl like he did Schlemko.

Parsons at 54 HMMMM.

I am a little worried he will spend too much on JG and SM.

 

He has made some good moves (like elliot) but the pressure is on like the day after eating mamas triple cheese lasagna.

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BT has got me worried.

 

The Brouwer deal feels like he was pushed into a corner, (similar to the Engelland contract)

Letting Colbourne walk at 2.5 m. will haunt.

Hopefully he doesn't lose Nakladl like he did Schlemko.

Parsons at 54 HMMMM.

I am a little worried he will spend too much on JG and SM.

 

He has made some good moves (like elliot) but the pressure is on like the day after eating mamas triple cheese lasagna.

Sounds like you need to just relax.  The Gaudreau & Monahan deals require two parties, and they seem to be working on it.

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BT has got me worried.

 

The Brouwer deal feels like he was pushed into a corner, (similar to the Engelland contract)

Letting Colbourne walk at 2.5 m. will haunt.

Hopefully he doesn't lose Nakladl like he did Schlemko.

Parsons at 54 HMMMM.

I am a little worried he will spend too much on JG and SM.

 

He has made some good moves (like elliot) but the pressure is on like the day after eating mamas triple cheese lasagna.

 

I actual think BT has been doing a pretty good job as of late.

 

The Brouwer deal was okay term and dollar considering it was July 1.  He wasn't handing out 7 year deals like some.

 

The $2.5 that Colborne settled on was apparently much lower than what Colborne's agent was discussing with BT.

 

Smids uncertainty and Widemans deal is what's costing us Nakladl.  I don't believe ether were BT work.

 

The Flames took first pick of the goal tenders, he just might turn out to be a stud.

 

Ferland signed on Sept 10 last season after an awesome playoff performance, BT has proven that he is a patient negotiator.

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I actual think BT has been doing a pretty good job as of late.

 

The Brouwer deal was okay term and dollar considering it was July 1.  He wasn't handing out 7 year deals like some.

 

The $2.5 that Colborne settled on was apparently much lower than what Colborne's agent was discussing with BT.

 

Smids uncertainty and Widemans deal is what's costing us Nakladl.  I don't believe ether were BT work.

 

The Flames took first pick of the goal tenders, he just might turn out to be a stud.

 

Ferland signed on Sept 10 last season after an awesome playoff performance, BT has proven that he is a patient negotiator.

Agreed, and furthermore we are now finally at the stage where we can officially call this Brads team. Hes overhauled the goaltender situation as promised (whens the last time you had to go searching for the goaltending thread on this board??)

He cleaned out Stockton, if you dont have a legitimate shot at becoming a good contributor on the big club youre gone. Hes put his guy in place as coach. He made tough decisions on Colborne, Jooris and Ortio. Hes made major splashes in free agency to improve the team.

Nope, this is his team now, its on him if it fails, but he gets all the credit if they succeed

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Just thinking about the rest of the summer and realized its likely going to be very quiet with the Flames for at least the next 4-6 weeks.  Outside of a signing or three and the slim possibility of a trade or two, it likely will be pin-drop quiet till guys start ramping it up for the World Cup in early September, with the odd WJC try-out camp thrown in for good measure.

 

Time to bring the kids and grandkids up to speed on the basics of fishing.... and get out and enjoy the mountains and trails....

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The big news will be when they sign Gaudreau and Monahan. I think we may also see an RFA pickup or two that didn't accept their qualifying offer. There will also be some noise in August when the college free agents can sign. Outside of that I agree it will be quiet for a bit. Treliving wants to move some money and make some moves, but that probably doesn't happen until September.

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The big news will be when they sign Gaudreau and Monahan. I think we may also see an RFA pickup or two that didn't accept their qualifying offer. There will also be some noise in August when the college free agents can sign. Outside of that I agree it will be quiet for a bit. Treliving wants to move some money and make some moves, but that probably doesn't happen until September.

 

I think Smid is definitely LTIR to start the season, so BT can go over the cap up to his salary.  Not that he will, but it gives some options.  May see BT pick up an unsigned RFA or one nearing arbitration.  Rakell or Hayes would be options.  Would love to get Kucherov, but no way we have anything worth him in trade.  

 

Other than that, it will probably be September when the trades and Stockton signings start.  AHL deals to fill up the remaining spots with at least one vet.  Dev Camp invites that impress will get signed.  Maybe one or two before then.  Nakladal will probably only happen after Johnny and Monahan sign, but I think the intent from both sides is to get the deal done.  He'll get signed prior to WC. though, as he would need to be insured.

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