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Stockton Heat Updates [2016-2017]

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Agreed. He is an RFA and he is European. Not playing him is the same as losing him on waivers because he isn't signing an extension with the Flames at this point.

It still appears to me as if the coach and GM aren't on the same page with Ortio. Coach doesn't trust him. GM wants to see what they have in him.

But if Hartley doesn't play him despite terrible goaltending early, or despite Hiller going down, or despite Ramo playing a record number of consecutive starts then clearly he doesn't trust the player.

I don't think Ortio has shown he deserves starts from his performance so far this year. 

*yes JJ I realize you have to give him chances to show he deserves more starts, but you also have to do something with the starts / opportunities when you get them.*

This is so similar to Irving when he had some rough starts on that eastern swing.

 

There was those rumours flying around that Ortio needs  to develop better practice habits too. I know many times last season when Hiller was getting some consecutive starts that BH would say Ramo is being a trooper and working very hard in practice to show he is ready and deserves starts. Maybe there is more going on, than just the poor showings, so far this season.

 

Ramo's performance lately, has me backing off on my earlier thoughts we should try to get a proven starter in here. If hew maintains he level of performance then I am okay with this.

 

I still think Ortio is destined to head through waivers. Frankly if he gets claimed it is no difference than our present situation in that likely he will go elsewhere at end of season for no return.

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Agreed. He is an RFA and he is European. Not playing him is the same as losing him on waivers because he isn't signing an extension with the Flames at this point.

It still appears to me as if the coach and GM aren't on the same page with Ortio. Coach doesn't trust him. GM wants to see what they have in him.

But if Hartley doesn't play him despite terrible goaltending early, or despite Hiller going down, or despite Ramo playing a record number of consecutive starts then clearly he doesn't trust the player.

 

The same could be said for the whole lineup.  Hartley, when he gets a win, does not want to change anything.  Going with Ramo makes sense because he is winning (or almost winning) every game he starts.  Unless Ramo is tired, there is no reason to sit him.

That can only go on for so long, but now is not the best time to change.  Ramo has not lost in Anaheim as the starter.  

 

What I can't understand is why Hiller will be back in the "rotation" once he comes of IR.  He was terrible before he was injured.  Now, he is out of practice.  At least Ortio has been practicing with the team since Hiller was injured.  While I understand the argument that he is a #1 goalie, that is not the case this season.  Maybe it's harsh, but he needs to go to the AHL.  Whether that is by waiver or conditioning stint, that is the only way we can be sure he is ready.  Practice does not do it.  The Heat need a reliable tender, not an ECHL goalie backing up an AHL backup. 

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Where was he supposed to earn more starts? He has had two starts all season and the first one didn't come until October 26.

You can't sit a goalie for a month and then bench him when he doesn't play well. Tending is as much about confidence and routine as anything else. He wasn't even getting good reps in at practice ad the third goalie.

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I don't think Ortio has shown he deserves starts from his performance so far this year. 

*yes JJ I realize you have to give him chances to show he deserves more starts, but you also have to do something with the starts / opportunities when you get them.*

This is so similar to Irving when he had some rough starts on that eastern swing.

 

There was those rumours flying around that Ortio needs  to develop better practice habits too. I know many times last season when Hiller was getting some consecutive starts that BH would say Ramo is being a trooper and working very hard in practice to show he is ready and deserves starts. Maybe there is more going on, than just the poor showings, so far this season.

 

Ramo's performance lately, has me backing off on my earlier thoughts we should try to get a proven starter in here. If hew maintains he level of performance then I am okay with this.

 

I still think Ortio is destined to head through waivers. Frankly if he gets claimed it is no difference than our present situation in that likely he will go elsewhere at end of season for no return.

 

 

I wonder about this too. I feel like Hartley has a pretty good handle on goalies so if he doesn't trust you I ask why?

 

This is going to sound really silly but I was watching the video of the Flames red rally on Flames TV and the highlight of the shootout. Ortio looked awful and basically looked like he didn't care at all and he even let Jacques Cloutier score on him with a less than stellar move. Its funny you mention Irving, becuase i've read the same of Irving in that he wasn't always known as a guy who practices hard and its part of the reason he was left off the Team Canada World junior team the year Mason won it. I already wondered that and then you see a practice where he is giving less than a full effort and you have to question his practice habits and that could be why Hartley just hasnt' gained any sort of trust in him.

 

I will fully admit thats reaching and i'm not suggesting it is the root cause it was just a silly thing I noticed that reinforced something I had already been thinking about anyway.

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The same could be said for the whole lineup. Hartley, when he gets a win, does not want to change anything. Going with Ramo makes sense because he is winning (or almost winning) every game he starts. Unless Ramo is tired, there is no reason to sit him.

That can only go on for so long, but now is not the best time to change. Ramo has not lost in Anaheim as the starter.

What I can't understand is why Hiller will be back in the "rotation" once he comes of IR. He was terrible before he was injured. Now, he is out of practice. At least Ortio has been practicing with the team since Hiller was injured. While I understand the argument that he is a #1 goalie, that is not the case this season. Maybe it's harsh, but he needs to go to the AHL. Whether that is by waiver or conditioning stint, that is the only way we can be sure he is ready. Practice does not do it. The Heat need a reliable tender, not an ECHL goalie backing up an AHL backup.

Hiller's last start was Oct. 28, Ortio played the next game on Oct. 30 and that was his last start, so I would say that Ortio is just as rusty as Hiller. Even Kipper had bad stretches of 7 or more games, Hiller has earned his right to come back into the rotation.

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Hiller's last start was Oct. 28, Ortio played the next game on Oct. 30 and that was his last start, so I would say that Ortio is just as rusty as Hiller. Even Kipper had bad stretches of 7 or more games, Hiller has earned his right to come back into the rotation.

 

At least Ortio has been in full practices since then.  Hiller's only right to come back into the rotation is based on his play from last year, prior to getting pulled in the playoffs.  Since the main GT position was between Ramo and Hiller to starts the year, and Ramo was waived, what does that say about the next one facing waivers or playing in the AHL for a stint?  By the way BT has played it, Hiller will be the guy to go down.

 

Ortio is being used as a McBackup was during the Kipper years.  I don't agree with the usage, but Ramo is the starter and we need the wins now.

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At least Ortio has been in full practices since then. Hiller's only right to come back into the rotation is based on his play from last year, prior to getting pulled in the playoffs. Since the main GT position was between Ramo and Hiller to starts the year, and Ramo was waived, what does that say about the next one facing waivers or playing in the AHL for a stint? By the way BT has played it, Hiller will be the guy to go down.

Ortio is being used as a McBackup was during the Kipper years. I don't agree with the usage, but Ramo is the starter and we need the wins now.

When Ramo went down he was terrible, he had the worst start out of the three. Ortio hasn't done anything to deserve to stay up since then and Ramo has. I just don't see any scenario where Hiller is sent through waivers.

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When Ramo went down he was terrible, he had the worst start out of the three. Ortio hasn't done anything to deserve to stay up since then and Ramo has. I just don't see any scenario where Hiller is sent through waivers.

 

Hiller has been worse by a long shot.  Ramo had 3 starts and was bad.  Hiller had 5 starts after Ramo was waived and managed nothing good except for a victory over the Wings.  That game the Flames put 40 shots on net compared to 29 against.  He was pulled one and left injured in another where he let in 4 goals on 18 shots.

 

While Hartley may not have a lot of confidence in Ortio, where would he get any in Hiller this season.  

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Randy Sportak (@SUNRandySportak) tweeted at 4:15 PM on Wed, Nov 25, 2015:

#Flames AHL goalie situation from GM Treliving

Decision regarding Gillies (hip) will be made this week. Possible surgery.

As for G Kevin Poulin, he had surgery today for a dislocated knee cap and out 4-6 weeks.

If Gillies has surgery there is a good chance he is done for the season.

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Feels to me like Gilles is heading for surgery. when its quiet on an injury front like this that tends to mean its serious and they are checking opinons. Which really sucks becuase he was off to such a good start.

 

Flames will be in big trouble down there if Ortio doens't clear waivers. If he does you are probalby ok but a real rough year for the Heat between the pipes.

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Feels to me like Gilles is heading for surgery. when its quiet on an injury front like this that tends to mean its serious and they are checking opinons. Which really sucks becuase he was off to such a good start.

 

Flames will be in big trouble down there if Ortio doens't clear waivers. If he does you are probalby ok but a real rough year for the Heat between the pipes.

 

Poulin had surgery on his dislocated kneecap today.  Gillies decision is expected this week (surgery or not).

 

I thought that waiving Ortio was the riskiest move BT could make.  Hiller could have be sent for a conditioning stint, seeing as he is coming off IR.  No need to waive him, unless he blocked it.  Least possible risk.  And you actually get a better read on a goalie coming off IR.

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Poulin had surgery on his dislocated kneecap today. Gillies decision is expected this week (surgery or not).

I thought that waiving Ortio was the riskiest move BT could make. Hiller could have be sent for a conditioning stint, seeing as he is coming off IR. No need to waive him, unless he blocked it. Least possible risk. And you actually get a better read on a goalie coming off IR.

Even if Hiller agreed to the conditioning stint you would still have to send Ortio down you would just be making Ramo play even more games in a row while Hiller was in the AHL.

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Even if Hiller agreed to the conditioning stint you would still have to send Ortio down you would just be making Ramo play even more games in a row while Hiller was in the AHL.

 

Well actually, Hartley would be forced to play Ortio in one of the B2B games.  If he managed a win, Ramo would get a few games off during the 14 day stint. If after the conditioning stint, the decision could be made with more evidence than 2 games in a season.

You would have Hiller fresh off some games in the AHL.  If he sucked in the AHL and Ortio managed a win or two in 2 or more starts, then you probably waive Hiller.

 

But instead we will see a "rusty" Hiller come in Friday or Saturday.  Maybe it's for the best.  I am sick of goaltending issues, so either Hiller comes in to be the #1 or he should go.  I am ok with keeping Ramo as a backup. but not keeping Hiller as one.  $4.5m is too much.  Ramo's salary is bad enough as a backup.

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Well actually, Hartley would be forced to play Ortio in one of the B2B games.  If he managed a win, Ramo would get a few games off during the 14 day stint. If after the conditioning stint, the decision could be made with more evidence than 2 games in a season.

You would have Hiller fresh off some games in the AHL.  If he sucked in the AHL and Ortio managed a win or two in 2 or more starts, then you probably waive Hiller.

 

But instead we will see a "rusty" Hiller come in Friday or Saturday.  Maybe it's for the best.  I am sick of goaltending issues, so either Hiller comes in to be the #1 or he should go.  I am ok with keeping Ramo as a backup. but not keeping Hiller as one.  $4.5m is too much.  Ramo's salary is bad enough as a backup.

 

 

Hartley wasn't forced to play Ortio in the last B2B games he just played Ramo 2 games in a row. 

 

I will agree that both goaltenders make too much, I never really understood why we gave Ramo so much money, when goalies of the same caliber got significantly less. Both are UFA's at the end of the season so they're salary isn't relevant anymore.

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Hartley wasn't forced to play Ortio in the last B2B games he just played Ramo 2 games in a row. 

 

I will agree that both goaltenders make too much, I never really understood why we gave Ramo so much money, when goalies of the same caliber got significantly less. Both are UFA's at the end of the season so they're salary isn't relevant anymore.

 

At that point, Ramo hadn't played 10 in a row.  Hartley had seen Ramo have two outstanding performances followed by two not great ones.  

 

As far as the relevance of the contracts, they are very much so.  Having $8m tied up this year means we are rather tight to the cap.  If we traded one of them for a better, more expensive goalie, we would be really tight or maybe not able to swing it.  Or if we were able to get rid of a multi-year contract by taking on a one-year deal, we could only if it fit under the cap.

 

I am hoping (not holding my breath) that one of these guys is on the move before Christmas.  

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At that point, Ramo hadn't played 10 in a row. Hartley had seen Ramo have two outstanding performances followed by two not great ones.

As far as the relevance of the contracts, they are very much so. Having $8m tied up this year means we are rather tight to the cap. If we traded one of them for a better, more expensive goalie, we would be really tight or maybe not able to swing it. Or if we were able to get rid of a multi-year contract by taking on a one-year deal, we could only if it fit under the cap.

I am hoping (not holding my breath) that one of these guys is on the move before Christmas.

Neither Ramo or Hiller is tradeable at this point, and you can't bury them in the AHL so we are stuck with those contracts.

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Neither Ramo or Hiller is tradeable at this point, and you can't bury them in the AHL so we are stuck with those contracts.

 

Unfortunately, once one of them plays well enough to be tradeable, we will need them here.  Burying them gives a slight relief of $950k. Ortio up and one of them down would save us about $350k in cap.

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Flames had 3 mill of cap room to start to the year so i don't think 950K of cap relief should enter into the discussion.

 

ortio needs to play more than just the odd game here and there  and the Heat need someone who can play for more then a couple weeks. Ortio makes far more sense to send down than HIller. 

 

EDIT: Flames now confirm that Ortio will go to Stockton

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Not a surprising update but Treliving confirms Gilles out with Hip Surgery. 4-6 Months which basically ends his season.

 

Apparantly this has been bugging him for a while so hopefully this is the end of it, but I always get nervous when goalies go through issues like this early in their career.

 

#Flames GM Brad Treliving informs us Jon Gillies will be undergoing hip surgery. 4-6 month recovery.

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Not a surprising update but Treliving confirms Gilles out with Hip Surgery. 4-6 Months which basically ends his season.

 

Apparantly this has been bugging him for a while so hopefully this is the end of it, but I always get nervous when goalies go through issues like this early in their career.

 

#Flames GM Brad Treliving informs us Jon Gillies will be undergoing hip surgery. 4-6 month recovery.

 

Was half expecting this.  He was bothered with this last year.  Affected his WJC and season play.

 

Get this out of the way and have a healthier player next season.  Joni will get a lot of playing time, so he may actually earn his way back up.

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Couple good things happening on the Heat this week.

 

They've won 3 in a row and Kevin Poulin and Aaron Johnson are back with the team. I think Poulin is key becuase Kent Simpson has not been very good and while Ortio's game has stabalized its still great to have to good netminders so hopefully it can put the Heat on a bit of a role. Also, Aaron Johnson returns after winning the Spengler cup.

 

Emile Porier staring to play much better. 4 goals and 7 points in his last 11 games. 

Bill Arnold with 3 goals and 10 points in his last 13

Haathaway with 4 goals and 9 points in his last 13 games.

 

So hopefuly this is a signs things are looking up. Something I didn't even realize is the schedule for the Heat was really bizaree to start the season. They tpyically were averaging around 5 days off between games, but now will play much more frequently. Hopefully the time they've had to practice will flow into games and they can keep a run going. 

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Derek Grant will be Stockton's representative for the AHL all star game. It will be his first AHL all star game appearance.

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Heat are on a nice little run here. 7-2-1 in their last 10 games. Record still not that pretty overal but nice to see them get it turned around a bit. Helps when you finally get goaltending. 

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Heat are on a nice little run here. 7-2-1 in their last 10 games. Record still not that pretty overal but nice to see them get it turned around a bit. Helps when you finally get goaltending. 

 

And if you noticed, Poulin is a big part of that.  It also helps when you regularly shoot 40+ shots every game.  Very few time are they held to below 30. 

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