Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

14,239 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

 

I'm on your side as far as $8mm contracts go, but the Leafs still blew it how they handled Nylander.  As for Tkachuk, hopefully BT is talking with him already...

Sure, but that's a them problem ;)

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10 hours ago, cccsberg said:

  I’m not sure why you believe he’d only sign KHL for only 1 year.  No one knows but if it goes past Dec 1st I’d suggest his Leaf days are over.  

 

Can't play in the NHL if he's under contract to the K. I think Nylander wants to play in the best league and maximize his career earnings and I don't think he'll do that playing in the K for any longer then he has to. Needs to play in the NHL. 

 

Don't quite get the rationale that the Leafs blew it with Nylander. They are currently the 2nd best team in the league and Tavares is over a PPG player. Unless you think Nylander was a PPG player but for me while he is very good he's not that good. Tavares is a huge reason that team is still one of the best despite missing their best player. Will it cost them Nylander? Probably but what's wrong with having Tavares and dealing Nylander for Pesce (or something similar)

 

Leafs look pretty smart to me. They hold the power. 

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2 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Not unreasonable thinking but why not make it 2 years?   TML got greedy and are now paying the price, and since it isn't hurting them they can force Nylander's hands.  Its an ugly situation all around.  

 

TML didn't get greedy by all accounts.  They want to get Nylander signed for $6-mil-per for 7 or 8 years.  That's fair money.  No greed at all.  

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36 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

TML didn't get greedy by all accounts.  They want to get Nylander signed for $6-mil-per for 7 or 8 years.  That's fair money.  No greed at all.  

 

Its the Draisitl contract that is blocking the deal. I see him more of a 6-6.75m player. If you wanna max deal go 7m. But still, it is one that’s going to hurt the Marner negotiations. 

 

If I were the leafs, I’d do a 1-2 year deal. Go for the Cup this year. If next year’s negotiations with other players get demanding then trade Nylander. I guess they could do that on a long term deal, but the contract will be higher and tougher to deal.

 

Without Marner or Matthews; what is Nylander? 

 

I think if Monahan didn’t have Gaudreau then he would be closer to a Lindholm contract, but you pay him because he’s clutch. Lindholm’s deal is going to look like a bargain now that he is playing with Gaudreau. I am not trying to see Monahan is any worse than he is because he’s awesome. It’s just with some players, they can up your game. He’s still got the brains to do it. I love how they have been playing lately. If the other lines could get going then that line can be top 3 in the league.

 

Nylander adds that to the leafs, but if he wasn’t a part of the puzzle the previous years, what would he be worth without them?

 

 

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Sounds like Matt Duchene is close to an extension with OTT.  Weird move for OTT as I thought they would go full rebuild and try to land a 1st rounder or two for Duchene.  If Duchene signs, then there's a good chance Mark Stone stays too.  I thought the Flames could target Stone this summer as UFA it even as a rental at TDL depending on price.

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50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sounds like Matt Duchene is close to an extension with OTT.  Weird move for OTT as I thought they would go full rebuild and try to land a 1st rounder or two for Duchene.  If Duchene signs, then there's a good chance Mark Stone stays too.  I thought the Flames could target Stone this summer as UFA it even as a rental at TDL depending on price.

 

If that's the case, then Stone may be on his way out.  It's one thing to make a huge trade and give up a 1st rounder in the Hughes draft for a player, only to let him walk.  It's another to continually screw with existing players by only signing short extensions.  They won't want to pay what an arbitrator will offer, since it starts at over $7.35m.  If they pay that much to Duchene, then they will have to pay more for Stone.

 

A trade for assets is likely, but they almost have to go for broke this year to get into the playoffs.  Maybe Stone brings them back a #1 D-man.

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59 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sounds like Matt Duchene is close to an extension with OTT.  Weird move for OTT as I thought they would go full rebuild and try to land a 1st rounder or two for Duchene.  If Duchene signs, then there's a good chance Mark Stone stays too.  I thought the Flames could target Stone this summer as UFA it even as a rental at TDL depending on price.

 

They still need players and they still need to be able to reach the salary cap floor.

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Yeah, Stone signing that 1 year deal screams "I'm out of here!"  Things change of course, and they haven't been nearly as bad as predicted, but still.  I see the sens extending Duchene as more of a face saving move after everything they gave up for him last year.

 

PS. No way Melnik shells out the money for both Duchene and Stone.  'Salary floor and not a penny more' is likely plastered all over the GM's office. 

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5 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Yeah, Stone signing that 1 year deal screams "I'm out of here!"  Things change of course, and they haven't been nearly as bad as predicted, but still.  I see the sens extending Duchene as more of a face saving move after everything they gave up for him last year.

 

PS. No way Melnik shells out the money for both Duchene and Stone.  'Salary floor and not a penny more' is likely plastered all over the GM's office. 

Face saving or simply trying to show fans they still believe in themselves. OTT has the makings of a good team with a good young core starting to form. They get a few quality forwards to stay and get a new Goalie they could be right back in the thick of things. Only good can come from Stone, either he signs or they get some high draft picks.

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I have read that Stone is actually open to staying in Ottawa. If that means anything...

 

If Duchene is worth 8-9mill annually then so is Stone. Flames would have to do a lot of maneuvering to be able to pay both Tkachuk and Stone their 16 million combined. 

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26 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I have read that Stone is actually open to staying in Ottawa. If that means anything...

 

If Duchene is wroth 8-9mill annually then so is Stone. Flames would have to do a lot of maneuvering to be able to pay both Tkachuk and Stone their 16 million combined. 

I think we need to give up on the Stone thinking. We have a very good team now and with some fine tuning we should be fine. Worry about goaltending next offseason if still deemed a concern.

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13 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think we need to give up on the Stone thinking. We have a very good team now and with some fine tuning we should be fine. Worry about goaltending next offseason if still deemed a concern.

 

Tkachuk is looking north of 8m. Adding another forward with a similar contract and we could price ourselves out of contention in a few years. Having to upgrade or pay a goalie, and eventually on D, can the long term plan afford Stone?

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

A trade for assets is likely, but they almost have to go for broke this year to get into the playoffs.  Maybe Stone brings them back a #1 D-man.

Or they could get Karlsson back as I cant see SJS affording him since they have to negotiate nearly their whole roster next year.

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I have read that Stone is actually open to staying in Ottawa. If that means anything...

 

If Duchene is worth 8-9mill annually then so is Stone. Flames would have to do a lot of maneuvering to be able to pay both Tkachuk and Stone their 16 million combined. 

 

Just the two caps of Michael Stone + Neal alone could land Stone. Would even ironic we have to get rid of Mark's brother to get him here.

 

So then where does the money come from for Tkachuk... It's looking like Draisaitl money.  $8.5x8.  that will have to come from Frolik and Ryan.

 

Leaves us with,

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm

Tkachuk - Backlund - Stone

Bennett - Jankowski - Whoever

Whoever - Dube - Whoever

 

Whoever is some combination of Hathaway, Czarnik, Mangiapane, and Klimchuk.  I also like Gawdin.

 

 On D, we the same just lose Stone who is our 7th D and graduate Kylington.  Smith retires and his money goes towards Rittich as starter or we will have to see how Rittich does.

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6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Can't play in the NHL if he's under contract to the K. I think Nylander wants to play in the best league and maximize his career earnings and I don't think he'll do that playing in the K for any longer then he has to. Needs to play in the NHL. 

 

Don't quite get the rationale that the Leafs blew it with Nylander. They are currently the 2nd best team in the league and Tavares is over a PPG player. Unless you think Nylander was a PPG player but for me while he is very good he's not that good. Tavares is a huge reason that team is still one of the best despite missing their best player. Will it cost them Nylander? Probably but what's wrong with having Tavares and dealing Nylander for Pesce (or something similar)

 

Leafs look pretty smart to me. They hold the power. 

If you are looking at it as a competition, I agree the Leafs hold the power.  I can only go by what has been made public, which is that part of the Tavares sales pitch was they would be able to sign all of Tavares, Marner, Nylander and Matthews and end up with a “super team”.  They have failed to sign Nylander so that hasn’t materialized, and they seem to have isolated and alienated him in the process.  The fact that Tavares has been terrific and the team is currently in the elite realm just takes the pressure off the fact one of their best players is sitting out.  Their abundance of riches, and the fact they hold all the cards with the player (pretty much) is papering over the long-term damage done to the relationship.  The TML may in fact “win” but it’s a hollow victory from this seat.

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5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

TML didn't get greedy by all accounts.  They want to get Nylander signed for $6-mil-per for 7 or 8 years.  That's fair money.  No greed at all.  

$6mm does not line up with the expanded cap, nor other contracts.   Look, nothing is set in stone, but yes, I think there is, and making presumptions (Tavares promises) also causes issues.

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18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Just the two caps of Michael Stone + Neal alone could land Stone. Would even ironic we have to get rid of Mark's brother to get him here.

 

So then where does the money come from for Tkachuk... It's looking like Draisaitl money.  $8.5x8.  that will have to come from Frolik and Ryan.

 

Leaves us with,

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm

Tkachuk - Backlund - Stone

Bennett - Jankowski - Whoever

Whoever - Dube - Whoever

 

Whoever is some combination of Hathaway, Czarnik, Mangiapane, and Klimchuk.  I also like Gawdin.

 

 On D, we the same just lose Stone who is our 7th D and graduate Kylington.  Smith retires and his money goes towards Rittich as starter or we will have to see how Rittich does.

 

Hey, anything is possible. I don't think it's going to be near as easy as you lay it out here because your are saying good bye to a ton of cap hits and not getting any in return, plus your not giving up Bennett, Dube etc to do it. I would suggest that's probably not going to happen.

 

Can it be done, possibly, but I think it would take more maneuvering than this, that's all I mean. Doing some quick math/projections there wouldn't be alot of space left over for buyouts.

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5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Problem here is you are assuming you can deal all of those contracts and bring in zero dollars in return. I'd have that team, again assuming no dollars come back in all those trades, with about 3-4 mill worth of cap space. So while doable, I don't think it's realistic to lsoe all those bodies, without losing someone like Valamaki/Dube/ Bennett etc, and pick up those players.

 

Possible sure, but like I said it would take a lot of maneuvering. Not quite this simple. 

 

Fair argument.  

 

Stone and Neal will be tough sells.  Stone almost has to be bought out this summer.  Ryan, I hope we can move for some fringe prospect or 7th rounder.  RHS C/RW with a bit of skill still has some value in today's NHL.

 

Frolik could fetch a 2nd round pick.  Good contract for what he brings.  This is the key.  Can we package this 2nd rounder to someone to take Ryan or Stone off our hands? So we don't have to lose buyout cap hit...

 

Neal, eesh, ya.  You got me there.  Maybe we can't move Neal but it will be Backlund instead.

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm

Tkachuk - Jankowski - Stone

Bennett - Dube - Neal

Whoever - whoever - whoever

 

Worth it I think.

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19 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

$6mm does not line up with the expanded cap, nor other contracts.   Look, nothing is set in stone, but yes, I think there is, and making presumptions (Tavares promises) also causes issues.

 

The Sens have Bobby Ryan, Gaborik (long term IR) and MacArthur (long term IR).  Gaborik and MacArthur are probably career ending injuries with two years left on contract.  If the Senators choose to, then they don't have to use the IR cap relief.  They dont have to put injured players on injured reserve.

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3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

They still need players and they still need to be able to reach the salary cap floor.

 

Sorry I meant to quote Jtech above, not cccsberg.

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2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Tkachuk is looking north of 8m. Adding another forward with a similar contract and we could price ourselves out of contention in a few years. Having to upgrade or pay a goalie, and eventually on D, can the long term plan afford Stone?

I haven't heard anything from Tkachuk regarding money, only others assuming what the ask will be. he would have to be well past Gaudreau ad Monahan in points to have BT give him such a contract. Personally I think people are getting way ahead of themselves with Tkachuk and he has some proving to do yet.

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6 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I haven't heard anything from Tkachuk regarding money, only others assuming what the ask will be. he would have to be well past Gaudreau ad Monahan in points to have BT give him such a contract. Personally I think people are getting way ahead of themselves with Tkachuk and he has some proving to do yet.

You proclaim that it is "self-evident" Elias Pettersson is an elite player just a few games into the first year of his career, but Chucky has some proving to do? :lol:

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3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Tkachuk is looking north of 8m. Adding another forward with a similar contract and we could price ourselves out of contention in a few years. Having to upgrade or pay a goalie, and eventually on D, can the long term plan afford Stone?

You drop him like a Stone when you can.

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23 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I haven't heard anything from Tkachuk regarding money, only others assuming what the ask will be. he would have to be well past Gaudreau ad Monahan in points to have BT give him such a contract. Personally I think people are getting way ahead of themselves with Tkachuk and he has some proving to do yet.

 

Yeah, it is just what I hear from sports commentators, and a lot on here believe that percentage of salary cap and points will dictate higher pay. I don’t want to pay that, and if it were up to me, but if he’s getting Draisaitl points or other comparables, it’s going to be the highest contract the Flames have ever paid. The new perimeter seems to be points and percentage of cap in relation to what the cap used to be. If it goes that way, he’ll get paid. 

 

I hope he takes a discount to enable the team to keep competitive. Although, UFA has been the Achilles of contracts since BT started and we have a couple of signings that haven’t been great so far. Early, so the hope is they turn it around. Some say they’ve done nothing and some say they provide more than we think.

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2 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

You drop him like a Stone when you can.

 

Oh, I mean the Ottawa Stone as they were discussing trying to get him I think. So, getting brother Stone and having to sign Tkachuk to a contract north of 8M, is that feasible?

 

Definitely drop Stone whenever the opportunity arises!

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