Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

15,340 posts in this topic

Just now, travel_dude said:

Okay guys, no need to respond to an insult with an insult.

Take the high ground.

 

Sorry TD. Will do.

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8 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

If you're comfortable making that conclusions 20 games in fine. I'm not. Neal's getting chances and he's benefiting the team and I'm confident his game will turn around for those reason. Plenty of players initially struggle when they come to new teams and IMO that's Neal but I think things will break soon. He'll never be wroth he contract but that's Free agency for you.

 

Brouwer was a net negative player on this team basically from the word go. Neal isn't. 

 

That's a fair point.  Neal doesn't hurt the team when he is on the ice.  His contract hurts the team because they need a player earning >$5MM/year to provide offense.  

 

Brouwer didn't score, he prevented his linemates from scoring and he was not great defensively.  

 

However, I don't share your optimism that Neal will start contributing offensively this year or over the next four seasons.  

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It's interesting to see what happens with Nylander.  With 5pm Saturday as the deadline, a new team acquiring him still needs to negotiate a contract with him.  There's just no time.  He's a Leaf or bust at this point.  I can't imagine Nylander would rather make $0 than $3 or $4-mil the remainder of this season.

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10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

It's interesting to see what happens with Nylander.  With 5pm Saturday as the deadline, a new team acquiring him still needs to negotiate a contract with him.  There's just no time.  He's a Leaf or bust at this point.  I can't imagine Nylander would rather make $0 than $3 or $4-mil the remainder of this season.

Nylander can get paid in the K still. Avangard Omsk holds his rights...Hartley’s team.

If it comes to that.

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15 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

That's a fair point.  Neal doesn't hurt the team when he is on the ice.  His contract hurts the team because they need a player earning >$5MM/year to provide offense.  

 

Brouwer didn't score, he prevented his linemates from scoring and he was not great defensively.  

 

However, I don't share your optimism that Neal will start contributing offensively this year or over the next four seasons.  

Brouwer was a 3rd line big body checker that scored an average amount of goals when he came here. BP as taken a bonafide sniper and placed him on a makeshift 3rd line.

If you cant figure out what the difference is and why the poor results are happening for Neal nobody will change your outlook. Neal has never been one to make it happen all on his own. Bad chemistry=bad results. 

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Nikita Scherbak is on waivers today any interest in him?  He is a skilled player, not 100% sure where he would fit but might be worth a shot.

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Here’s my Nylander theory.  He will either cave and sign a team friendly contract last minute or...

 

Leafs don’t sign him, then trade his rights to a bottom feeder team for assets.  Maybe a team like Philly.  The receiving teams gets the rights to a top flight forward while actively making their team worse because the guy literally can’t play this season, thus improving their draft lottery odds.  Kind of like Buffalo when they traded for an injured evander kane.

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48 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Here’s my Nylander theory.  He will either cave and sign a team friendly contract last minute or...

 

Leafs don’t sign him, then trade his rights to a bottom feeder team for assets.  Maybe a team like Philly.  The receiving teams gets the rights to a top flight forward while actively making their team worse because the guy literally can’t play this season, thus improving their draft lottery odds.  Kind of like Buffalo when they traded for an injured evander kane.

 

Tinfoil hat time.  I like it.  Unfortunately, that kind of deal has no value to the trading team.  If they wanted to trade him, they missed the boat.  

 

No, I think the Leafs are close to live/die with him.  He signs with them or goes to KHL.  I believe that he's trying to make an example of Dubas, who thinks you look at shiny new toys before you bother paying your own.  He's not going to back down just to help the Leafs.  Leafs have to cave on some part of the deal.  Enough to give Nylander a reason to sign.  He's missed 30% of the season.  Signing bonus is the only way he gets that money back.  A bridge deal of 3 years screws him and just makes him tradable.

 

How's it going to look when they offer 12m to Matthews and 9m to Marner, while they penny pinch him for less than 6m. 

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The Tavares signing isn’t over yet...

Marner potentially hits 100 pts this year in which case 9 may not be enough.

If Dubas doesn’t get Nylander signed, his whole, “it won’t be a problem signing all 3” post Tavares signing is going to haunt him in that ruthless market.

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2 hours ago, ABC923 said:

Here’s my Nylander theory.  He will either cave and sign a team friendly contract last minute or...

 

Leafs don’t sign him, then trade his rights to a bottom feeder team for assets.  Maybe a team like Philly.  The receiving teams gets the rights to a top flight forward while actively making their team worse because the guy literally can’t play this season, thus improving their draft lottery odds.  Kind of like Buffalo when they traded for an injured evander kane.

$6.9 mil over 6 years.  take that as you will in reference to "team friendly".

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6 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

$6.9 mil over 6 years.  take that as you will in reference to "team friendly".

 

Nylander finally came to his senses.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Tinfoil hat time.  I like it.  Unfortunately, that kind of deal has no value to the trading team.  If they wanted to trade him, they missed the boat.  

 

No, I think the Leafs are close to live/die with him.  He signs with them or goes to KHL.  I believe that he's trying to make an example of Dubas, who thinks you look at shiny new toys before you bother paying your own.  He's not going to back down just to help the Leafs.  Leafs have to cave on some part of the deal.  Enough to give Nylander a reason to sign.  He's missed 30% of the season.  Signing bonus is the only way he gets that money back.  A bridge deal of 3 years screws him and just makes him tradable.

 

How's it going to look when they offer 12m to Matthews and 9m to Marner, while they penny pinch him for less than 6m. 

Must be hoping the cap goes to 100M next season.

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31 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

 

The cap hit for him this year is 10.9 m then drops to 6.996m next year?

How is that possible.

Something to do with him actually getting 6.9m for the remainder of the season?

2m signing bonus and 10m base this season.

Weird.

He ends up no better than playing the whole season at 6.9AAV.

 

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1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

The cap hit for him this year is 10.9 m then drops to 6.996m next year?

How is that possible.

Something to do with him actually getting 6.9m for the remainder of the season?

2m signing bonus and 10m base this season.

Weird.

He ends up no better than playing the whole season at 6.9AAV.

 

 

 

I haven't heard the details yet but does that mean Nylander was paid to sit for 2 months?

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This does set up Tkachuk for a 7.53m payday this summer.

Comparable point production over their careers.

Slight edge to Matty per game.

Matty starts a lot more in the D-zone and has better fancy stats.

WIllie has better 5v5 numbers.

 

Lets just get Tkachuk signed already.  He will be more expensive this summer.

 

EDIT - good piece on comparing the two players:

 

https://flamesnation.ca/2018/12/01/if-william-nylander-signs-he-sets-matthew-tkachuks-contract-floor/

 

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1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

I haven't heard the details yet but does that mean Nylander was paid to sit for 2 months?

 

Details on Cap Friendly now.  

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22 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Brouwer was a 3rd line big body checker that scored an average amount of goals when he came here. BP as taken a bonafide sniper and placed him on a makeshift 3rd line.

If you cant figure out what the difference is and why the poor results are happening for Neal nobody will change your outlook. Neal has never been one to make it happen all on his own. Bad chemistry=bad results. 

 

That doesn't line up with the facts.  

 

Neal - 79 goals and 143 points in the three seasons prior to signing with Calgary.  26.33 goals/season.  47.66 points/season. 

 

Brouwer - 64 goal and 127 points in the three seasons prior to signing with Calgary.  21.33 goals/season.  42.33 points/season. 

 

Five goals per season does not separate a bonafide sniper from a checker/grinder.  Five points per season doesn't make them the opposite of eachother.  Offensively, they were similar players prior to coming to Calgary.  Brouwer was probably a better defensive player.  

 

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17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

This does set up Tkachuk for a 7.53m payday this summer.

Comparable point production over their careers.

Slight edge to Matty per game.

Matty starts a lot more in the D-zone and has better fancy stats.

WIllie has better 5v5 numbers.

 

Lets just get Tkachuk signed already.  He will be more expensive this summer.

 

EDIT - good piece on comparing the two players:

 

https://flamesnation.ca/2018/12/01/if-william-nylander-signs-he-sets-matthew-tkachuks-contract-floor/

 

 

Tkachuk is also a more physical player and is willing to get his hands dirty.  Nylander is a better skater.

 

I am biased, but I don't think there are many teams that would take Nylander over Tkachuk (ignoring salary cap considerations).

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i do agree that the nylander signing helps establish a bit of a floor for Tkachuk I think my big fear there is it's only a 6 year deal and I think the flames need at least 7 and probably 8 for Tkachuk. That will probably still push it up close to 8mill on the AAV. 

 

I may may not be remembering this correctly but I thought I read that Tkachuk wasn't interested in an extension during the season. 

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1 hour ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

That doesn't line up with the facts.  

 

Neal - 79 goals and 143 points in the three seasons prior to signing with Calgary.  26.33 goals/season.  47.66 points/season. 

 

Brouwer - 64 goal and 127 points in the three seasons prior to signing with Calgary.  21.33 goals/season.  42.33 points/season. 

 

Five goals per season does not separate a bonafide sniper from a checker/grinder.  Five points per season doesn't make them the opposite of eachother.  Offensively, they were similar players prior to coming to Calgary.  Brouwer was probably a better defensive player.  

 

Forget it stubble, you are the one not making any sense here

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56 minutes ago, cross16 said:

i do agree that the nylander signing helps establish a bit of a floor for Tkachuk I think my big fear there is it's only a 6 year deal and I think the flames need at least 7 and probably 8 for Tkachuk. That will probably still push it up close to 8mill on the AAV. 

 

I may may not be remembering this correctly but I thought I read that Tkachuk wasn't interested in an extension during the season. 

 

I think he did say something along the lines that he wasn't going to worry about that during the season.  I doubt the agent makes any noise about it right now, though it would make sense while Tkachuk is over a p/gp and shooting above 20%.  Regardless, his bidy of work suggests that he's as dynamic as Nylander, and less sheltered.  Burke referred to him as one of Calgary's top 3 players, while he said Nylander was the Leaf's 5th or 6th best.  Meaning that you pay him as a top player on your own team.

 

I'm a bit annoyed with BT at the use of the Gio cap to set salaries.  JH was low-balled just to keep him below it.  As a result, we have JH for less years and he goes UFA at age 29.  Monahan will reach it at the same age, but a year later.  All well and good, but sometimes you need to recognize special talents and lock them down.  

 

Nylander is signed for an average of $7.5m, regardless of how they calculated his partial year.  I would be fine with that on a 8 year deal, but we can;t push it much past that.  W have some cap challenges, mostly due to waste or paying high.  Stone, Brouwer buyout, no starting goalie signed yet, Frolik for another year.  Nothing we can't fix, just challenging when every team has overpaid or excess players chewing up the cap. 

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