Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

15,340 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Mac, OM gosh, give it a break.  The Flames are second overall in the league.  I think BP is doing just fine.  A little powderpuff "controversy" keeps their minds focused during this doldrums part of the season......

You know CCC if you don't like what I have to say ignore it. I don't need you mouthing off about it. Winning isn't everything and if you can't see where changes are required throughout a season that's on you.

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9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Could Nathan Mackinnon be available?  

Yeah if you want to give half the team away.

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15 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Yeah if you want to give half the team away.

Why not.  We seem to be collecting former 1st rounders. :) 

 

COL refused to trade for Monahan pick + Poirier pick + Klimchuk pick at the time, so I imagine it would be more value than that today.

They will fire Bednar long before they trade MacKinnon.

Can always dream I guess.

Him and JH looked deadly together in the WCH tourney a few years back.

 

Honestly though, JH has as much value right now.  Slightly less because he's not a C.  Slightly more for his playmaking abilities.

We don't need to fix the top line.  Not even close.

I know it's just a humorous aside, but there are other more realistic options actually available.

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28 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I'm not so sure I wouldn't trade Neal now for the right deal. I like Neal but he isn't being used properly by BP and maybe for good reason (lack of speed). I would seriously be asking CBJ what they want for Panarin RW (as a rental). Neal may be enough given the fixed cost contract and he may be a good fit there. Panarin could be the piece that puts us in a better position to go for the SC. BT doesn't need to look past winning now and can figure out Panarin (as a keeper) and Tkachuk in the offseason.

 

Well, you don't trade a guy in year 1 of a long term UFA signed contract.

Not if you have any interest in any other FA's or wish to trade for pending UFA's.

It's what bad teams do.

Brouwer was a different story.

Bad signing from day 1.

We signed Neal on the basis of long term success, and the coach hasn't found the right mix for him.

 

Neal has good games and bad ones.  Last night was a good one, and he could have had more points.

Janko is the right guy to be with, just need to see if Bennett can be the other guy.

JH playing on the LW made a big difference for that line.

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No way is Mackinnon available nor do I think this is a big deal. Heat of the moment, team on a losing skid, tempers flair. Happens all the time and rarely does it lead to anything.

 

Bednar would for sure go before Mackinnon but both are doing a good job so I don't think either is going anywhere. Just a team frustrated with how things are going and I don't blame them. Last night was a game they should have won and Flames had no business winning.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, you don't trade a guy in year 1 of a long term UFA signed contract.

Not if you have any interest in any other FA's or wish to trade for pending UFA's.

It's what bad teams do.

Brouwer was a different story.

Bad signing from day 1.

We signed Neal on the basis of long term success, and the coach hasn't found the right mix for him.

 

Neal has good games and bad ones.  Last night was a good one, and he could have had more points.

Janko is the right guy to be with, just need to see if Bennett can be the other guy.

JH playing on the LW made a big difference for that line.

BS, if the fit isn't there its always better to fix it fast IMO. BT's job is to build a team that will contend and win a SC every year. I would bet my bottom dollar BT brought in Neal to play with Gaudreau and Monahan, BP had/has other ideas. Given where this season has gone and the current group I would agree the line to address is Bennett, Jankowski and Neal. If they don't click within this season I would be making changes.

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15 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Bennett makes more sense considering a supposed Rags rebuild.

 

I'd throw up if Treliving trades Bennett for Zucarello. Thankfully I don't have to worry about that as dealing Bennett for Zucarello makes no sense and won't happen. Treliving has had multiple opporutnites to move Bennett and passed, he isn't going to suddenly move him for a UFA rental. 

 

I don't see the fit for Zucarello personally. He's have a pretty poor year and honestly i'm not sure I would play him in the top 6 right now. Especially considering Mackenzie is hinting they may ask for a Rick Nash like return. 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I'd throw up if Treliving trades Bennett for Zucarello. Thankfully I don't have to worry about that as dealing Bennett for Zucarello makes no sense and won't happen. Treliving has had multiple opporutnites to move Bennett and passed, he isn't going to suddenly move him for a UFA rental. 

 

I don't see the fit for Zucarello personally. He's have a pretty poor year and honestly i'm not sure I would play him in the top 6 right now.

Oh I'm not in favor of it either. 31years old, 4.5 mil, 15 pts so far. Pure rental, and not even a good one.  I'm not sure who this reliable source is but.....hard no on that idea.

 

I have Zucc in one of my fantasy drafts. So far he's the dog of the group.

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10 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Yeah if you want to give half the team away.

that.. was hilarious to watch on the tube

 

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13 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I'm not so sure I wouldn't trade Neal now for the right deal. I like Neal but he isn't being used properly by BP and maybe for good reason (lack of speed). I would seriously be asking CBJ what they want for Panarin RW (as a rental). Neal may be enough given the fixed cost contract and he may be a good fit there. Panarin could be the piece that puts us in a better position to go for the SC. BT doesn't need to look past winning now and can figure out Panarin (as a keeper) and Tkachuk in the offseason.

 

I think Columbus would be better off to let Panarin walk at the end of the year.   If they have $5MM burning a hole in their pockets they can spend it on a better value free agent in the summer.  

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One thing i don't like is trading away muscle going into the playoffs so ironically, i don't want to trade away Neal and Bennett at this time unless the return was an equally gritty player coming back.  For example, Stone, Simmonds, Benn, etc.  I don't want to move muscle for a Zucarello, Panarin, Toffoli, etc.  

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10 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

I think Columbus would be better off to let Panarin walk at the end of the year.   If they have $5MM burning a hole in their pockets they can spend it on a better value free agent in the summer.  

Who ?

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

One thing i don't like is trading away muscle going into the playoffs so ironically, i don't want to trade away Neal and Bennett at this time unless the return was an equally gritty player coming back.  For example, Stone, Simmonds, Benn, etc.  I don't want to move muscle for a Zucarello, Panarin, Toffoli, etc.  

Let me say I don't see the need to make a trade at all if BP would settle in on lines that play well together. He appears to be getting there IMO if he lines up the lower 9 as such.

Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik

Bennett, Jankowski, Neal

Quine, Ryan, Hathaway

Should Valimaki and Stone return our Defense will be fine

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9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

One thing i don't like is trading away muscle going into the playoffs so ironically, i don't want to trade away Neal and Bennett at this time unless the return was an equally gritty player coming back.  For example, Stone, Simmonds, Benn, etc.  I don't want to move muscle for a Zucarello, Panarin, Toffoli, etc.  

 

If Bennett was on the block, not saying he is, I would only be interested in it being part of a big deal for a player like Stone or Panarin or Schenn or Tarasenko.

Panarin is not gritty, but he is a proven NHL scorer in the playoffs.  He was one of two reasons why the BJ's were close to beating the Caps in the playoffs.

The Caps were fortunate to escape.

 

Bennett by himself doesn't get much in return, unless the GM absolutely loves his play.  His advanced stats portray him as a line driver or beast.  On a different team he could be a more of a complimentary player, but here he is more of a role player.

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23 hours ago, MAC331 said:

You know CCC if you don't like what I have to say ignore it. I don't need you mouthing off about it. Winning isn't everything and if you can't see where changes are required throughout a season that's on you.

Its just that there is a big difference between "changes are required" and just complaining for complaining's sake.  If this Frolik complaining is typical, you'll be upset and urging upgrades even as the Flames are storming the ice for their Stanley Cup photo.....  we hope!

 

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2 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Its just that there is a big difference between "changes are required" and just complaining for complaining's sake.  If this Frolik complaining is typical, you'll be upset and urging upgrades even as the Flames are storming the ice for their Stanley Cup photo.....  we hope!

 

If you see my comments as "complaining" TFB. I post changes that I would like to see in order for team performance to improve. A team needs to constantly improve throughout any season whether winning or not. If you are content with their winning good for you.

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1 minute ago, cccsberg said:

Its just that there is a big difference between "changes are required" and just complaining for complaining's sake.  If this Frolik complaining is typical, you'll be upset and urging upgrades even as the Flames are storming the ice for their Stanley Cup photo.....  we hope!

 

 

I think we like that we are winning. I don’t think we are completely complaining. The first line is amazing. 

 

Cross doesnt think that it’s a problem that they’re getting close to 55-60% of the goals, maybe more if you’re including Gio and Tkachuk as they get a lot on the PP with that line.

 

we just think the team can be better and it’s frustrating because we see BP doing the same thing over and over with the bottom half to bottom7 of the roster. That’s minus Tkachuk and Backlund. 

 

Once we are more more of a deep threat I think that’s when Stanley Cup will be ours. 

 

Cross says the Caps did it our way last year, but if you look at the Pens cups, they didn’t win it all until they had three lines. It almost looked like they were going to waste the rest of Crosby and Malkin’s careers and time with the Pens by not solidified depth for them to win. You can’t say they didn’t need that because Kessel was for most of a playoff in talks of being Conn Smythe material despite being on the 3rd line.

 

I say look at Colorado, their top line is still killing it, but not much happening elsewhere in their lineup. They have a great starter, yet a cold stretch from their goalies dropped them to near Wild Card.

 

We are cautious.

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7 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

If you see my comments as "complaining" TFB. I post changes that I would like to see in order for team performance to improve. A team needs to constantly improve throughout any season whether winning or not. If you are content with their winning good for you.

 

Yup, they’ve not played well for awhile. Their only good game was in their last loss. How’s that for irony?

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3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yup, they’ve not played well for awhile. Their only good game was in their last loss. How’s that for irony?

There is lots to be excited about however a new Coach and some new players need time to know and accept what works best. Initially I wanted to see Backlund and Frolik split up if it made us stronger. I suggested way back a line of Tkachuk, Backlund and Lindholm (put the Swedes together) but its hard to argue putting Lindholm with Monahan to help with him coming back off these surgeries and the results to date. Let it ride but don't ignore how well the 3M line has played together and especially Backlund and Frolik. I didn't like BP putting Bennett on RW ad it appears some others didn't either. A line of Bennett, Jankowski and Neal should produce if left to play together, we need to find out. In regards to Ryan and Czarnik or even Quine I think they are quality depth players but the player that has upped his game IMO is Hathaway.

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15 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

There is lots to be excited about however a new Coach and some new players need time to know and accept what works best. Initially I wanted to see Backlund and Frolik split up if it made us stronger. I suggested way back a line of Tkachuk, Backlund and Lindholm (put the Swedes together) but its hard to argue putting Lindholm with Monahan to help with him coming back off these surgeries and the results to date. Let it ride but don't ignore how well the 3M line has played together and especially Backlund and Frolik. I didn't like BP putting Bennett on RW ad it appears some others didn't either. A line of Bennett, Jankowski and Neal should produce if left to play together, we need to find out. In regards to Ryan and Czarnik or even Quine I think they are quality depth players but the player that has upped his game IMO is Hathaway.

 

I agree with all of it. And it was just mishmash as BP was putting the lines through the blenders. It’s looked a bit better. Like you say, ride it for awhile and let’s see.

 

for me, I think the 1st and 4th lines weren’t the problem. It was the middle 6.

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I think we need to exercize caution with Hathaway's usage.  He's a role player, decent on the PK and gritty.  Not much more than that IMHO.

He's had good games, but all that is usually accomplished is getting some momentum going.  Nothing wrong with that, and it's the kind of player that you can bring in some games to help carry the mail.  I just feel he's an everyday player capable of providing that game every single night.

 

He should be used interchaneable with Czarnik, for when speed and shooting is what you need.  Using him on LW because you are dressing 3 RHS on the 4th line is a mistake.  So, we really need a reliable 4th line LW.  If Mangiapane is being kept around and they play on getting him in the lineup, the 4th line would be better served with Mangiapane-Ryan-Czarnik or even Bennett-Ryan-Czarnik, assuming you play Mangiapane with Janko and Neal (which was where he actually looked pretty decent).  I don't see the need to trade for a 4th line LW, unless we are shipping a lesser asset in the AHL.

 

A big trade like Panarin or Stone or Schenn or Tarasenko shakes up the lines a bit, so we would need to ensure we haven't messed up anything there.  They are low probability trades, but would help balance out our scoring. 

 

Imagine a 2nd line of:

Tkachuk-Backlund-Stone

Or Tkachuk-Schenn-Neal

Or Tkachuk-Backlund-Panarin

Or Tkachuk-Backlund-Tarasenko

 

 

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If this is the asking price for Ferland , I would stay far far away. If the cost for Ferland is anything more than a 3rd, I'm not interested.

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I think we need to exercize caution with Hathaway's usage.  He's a role player, decent on the PK and gritty.  Not much more than that IMHO.

He's had good games, but all that is usually accomplished is getting some momentum going.  Nothing wrong with that, and it's the kind of player that you can bring in some games to help carry the mail.  I just feel he's an everyday player capable of providing that game every single night.

 

He should be used interchaneable with Czarnik, for when speed and shooting is what you need.  Using him on LW because you are dressing 3 RHS on the 4th line is a mistake.  So, we really need a reliable 4th line LW.  If Mangiapane is being kept around and they play on getting him in the lineup, the 4th line would be better served with Mangiapane-Ryan-Czarnik or even Bennett-Ryan-Czarnik, assuming you play Mangiapane with Janko and Neal (which was where he actually looked pretty decent).  I don't see the need to trade for a 4th line LW, unless we are shipping a lesser asset in the AHL.

 

A big trade like Panarin or Stone or Schenn or Tarasenko shakes up the lines a bit, so we would need to ensure we haven't messed up anything there.  They are low probability trades, but would help balance out our scoring. 

 

Imagine a 2nd line of:

Tkachuk-Backlund-Stone

Or Tkachuk-Schenn-Neal

Or Tkachuk-Backlund-Panarin

Or Tkachuk-Backlund-Tarasenko

 

 

Hathaway is earning his ice time and if all he does is provide motivation, grit and a hard forecheck 5 on 5 from the 4th line GREAT. It is his PK effort that has elevated is game and purpose for the team.

Quine is a better LW option for the 4th line than Mangiapane.

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14 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

If this is the asking price for Ferland , I would stay far far away. If the cost for Ferland is anything more than a 3rd, I'm not interested.

 

That would be like sending Hamilton, Fox, a 1st and a prospect for Lindholm and Hanifin.

I don't think I would have made that deal last summer.

 

Ferland is close to a recurring injury type player.

Love his game, but the asking price for a 40 point player is too high.

He doesn't have enough of a defensive game to play top 6.

If you were to bring him in, then he plays with Janko and Neal.

The cost to re-sign would be too high and we would need to extend him upon the trade completion.

 

Miss you Ferlie, but not that much.

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

There is lots to be excited about however a new Coach and some new players need time to know and accept what works best. Initially I wanted to see Backlund and Frolik split up if it made us stronger. I suggested way back a line of Tkachuk, Backlund and Lindholm (put the Swedes together) but its hard to argue putting Lindholm with Monahan to help with him coming back off these surgeries and the results to date. Let it ride but don't ignore how well the 3M line has played together and especially Backlund and Frolik. I didn't like BP putting Bennett on RW ad it appears some others didn't either. A line of Bennett, Jankowski and Neal should produce if left to play together, we need to find out. In regards to Ryan and Czarnik or even Quine I think they are quality depth players but the player that has upped his game IMO is Hathaway.

I liked giving Bennett some time on the 2nd line but Frolik does need to be playing and 3M does click.  I like the Bennett Jankowski Neal line but agree that they need ice time together and in my view Neal is the weak link.  Bennett is creating chances when he is on the ice but he gets limited playing time.  He needs to use his vision to set up plays and he needs to keep the hard work in the corners. He should stop worrying about scoring.  It would be interesting to see points by minutes played.  Bennett is getting progressively better defensively and I think with a stronger right wing, he and Jankowski could press the 2nd line for playing time.  Both he and Jankowski are continually improving.  

 

They want to play Neal because they are paying him but....  he looks slow, shots poor and he doesn’t play tough and doesn’t take draws.  What is he bringing?  Lets face the facts.  Bennett and Hathaway are the only tough guys on the team, they are rare in that they can play and are tough we cant lose guys like this particularly when it comes to playoff time.  I keep waiting for Neal to impress me but its must not happening.

 

The team is playing great and BP needs to be given credit.  If there are question marks its Neal, Backlund as the 2nd line center and a lack of toughness.  Lets just keep our fingers crossed that Rittich keeps up his play.

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