Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

15,340 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, 89Again said:

I liked giving Bennett some time on the 2nd line but Frolik does need to be playing and 3M does click.  I like the Bennett Jankowski Neal line but agree that they need ice time together and in my view Neal is the weak link.  Bennett is creating chances when he is on the ice but he gets limited playing time.  He needs to use his vision to set up plays and he needs to keep the hard work in the corners. He should stop worrying about scoring.  It would be interesting to see points by minutes played.  Bennett is getting progressively better defensively and I think with a stronger right wing, he and Jankowski could press the 2nd line for playing time.  Both he and Jankowski are continually improving.  

 

They want to play Neal because they are paying him but....  he looks slow, shots poor and he doesn’t play tough and doesn’t take draws.  What is he bringing?  Lets face the facts.  Bennett and Hathaway are the only tough guys on the team, they are rare in that they can play and are tough we cant lose guys like this particularly when it comes to playoff time.  I keep waiting for Neal to impress me but its must not happening.

 

The team is playing great and BP needs to be given credit.  If there are question marks its Neal, Backlund as the 2nd line center and a lack of toughness.  Lets just keep our fingers crossed that Rittich keeps up his play.

I find it odd that we can take a forward such as Neal who has produce everywhere he has ever played and nullify him here. Like I said set up the line Bennett, Jankowski, Neal and let them play together for your answers.

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3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I find it odd that we can take a forward such as Neal who has produce everywhere he has ever played and nullify him here. Like I said set up the line Bennett, Jankowski, Neal and let them play together for your answers.

 

Pretty simple. Neal has been a guy who has been productive because he plays with players who can get him the puck in scoring area. Flames don't really have a center who is great at that period, let alone one in their bottom 6 where he mostly plays. Combine that with him not seeing #1 PP, an ineffective 2nd unit PP where he is in the wrong spot and you have the result. 

 

Not surprising to me to be honest. One of the few reason why I wasn't a huge fan of the signing. 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Pretty simple. Neal has been a guy who has been productive because he plays with players who can get him the puck in scoring area. Flames don't really have a center who is great at that period, let alone one in their bottom 6 where he mostly plays. Combine that with him not seeing #1 PP, an ineffective 2nd unit PP where he is in the wrong spot and you have the result. 

 

Not surprising to me to be honest. One of the few reason why I wasn't a huge fan of the signing. 

 

 

agreed.. Bennett has never been a playmaker.. was thinking prying Perron out of Stl could have many benefits , not sure what it would take including fitting his cap($4M).. but hes always been a good player and had great Chemistry with Neal last year as well

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37 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Pretty simple. Neal has been a guy who has been productive because he plays with players who can get him the puck in scoring area. Flames don't really have a center who is great at that period, let alone one in their bottom 6 where he mostly plays. Combine that with him not seeing #1 PP, an ineffective 2nd unit PP where he is in the wrong spot and you have the result. 

 

Not surprising to me to be honest. One of the few reason why I wasn't a huge fan of the signing. 

 

 

I wouldn't disagree with this at all except for the C being the only line mate that can distribute the puck. As I have said prior it would be good to have him on a line that sports either Gaudreau or Tkachuk as the only true playmakers we have on this team. Rather than waste him I would prefer they trade him if not this season maybe the offseason.

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2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I wouldn't disagree with this at all except for the C being the only line mate that can distribute the puck. As I have said prior it would be good to have him on a line that sports either Gaudreau or Tkachuk as the only true playmakers we have on this team. Rather than waste him I would prefer they trade him if not this season maybe the offseason.

 

I was going to expand on this and my answer wasn't quite complete. 

 

To be fair, Neal probably should have a least 4-5 goals just due to bad luck. If he had those 4-5 goals he's on pace for around 15-16 and that would be equal to expecations I would think, when you factor he's down 2 mins in Ice time from last year to this year and on the 2nd PP unit. I understand he'd be well off in points but that's a product of line mates too. So I'll retract, it's not fair to say this was "easily" predicted. 

 

And to be fair as well, much of the criticism around Neal has been his give a crap meter and I think hat is a fair critique of Neal. I made this comparison earlier in the year but he's alot like Sam Bennett last year. Bennett did a lot of good things the last 2 year but they weren't translating on the score sheet, box score, or for many fans. He flipped that by upping the physical component this year and so far Neal has not brought that physical element he was supposed to. So I can see why many fans look at and think he is doing nothing to aid the team because he isn't playing physical, and the good things he is doing aren't translating to success. 

 

 Trading him is going to be really challenge I think. The main reason the Flames got him is they were the only team willing to go 5 years so given that, plus his play I don't think he is very movable. You are going to have to take on another bad contract if you want to move him and depending on who that is it may or may not be a good idea. 

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I’d put Neal in a shooting position on the 1st PP. 

 

Put Tkachuk on the 2nd unit to give it more of a threat. In games where the Flames absolutely need a goal then put Tkachuk on the first unit. 

 

Not in a specific order

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

 Giordano, Lindholm 

 

Tkachuk, Backlund, Ryan/xxx

Hanifin, Andersson 

 

i would almost do the 3M line because they know each other and somehow Frolik makes Backlund tick. 

 

Maybe you do try Czarnik there, or leave it open for a guy that is having a good game.

 

 

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5 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

If this is the asking price for Ferland , I would stay far far away. If the cost for Ferland is anything more than a 3rd, I'm not interested.

 

Lol if someone offered us a 1st + prospect for Ferland, I would've personally went over to Ferlie's house to help him pack his bags and drive him to the airport.

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1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Lol if someone offered us a 1st + prospect for Ferland, I would've personally went over to Ferlie's house to help him pack his bags and drive him to the airport.

 

I might be willing to do a 2nd rounder and a B prospect. 

 

I never thought he was a 1st liner, but he’s a great 3rd liner who could move up the lines.

slotting there really would add to the depth. But I don’t see it happening.

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I’d put Neal in a shooting position on the 1st PP. 

 

Put Tkachuk on the 2nd unit to give it more of a threat. In games where the Flames absolutely need a goal then put Tkachuk on the first unit. 

 

Not in a specific order

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

 Giordano, Lindholm 

 

Tkachuk, Backlund, Ryan/xxx

Hanifin, Andersson 

 

i would almost do the 3M line because they know each other and somehow Frolik makes Backlund tick. 

 

Maybe you do try Czarnik there, or leave it open for a guy that is having a good game.

 

 

 

I think that if the 1st unit is scoring once per game, no point in changing that unit.

We saw less than a minute of the new 2nd unit, but I though they looked good.

Crarnik-Janko-Neal

Brodie-Ras.

 

Give them more than a minute to get used to each other.  What I did see was Ras being able to hold the line.  I was never a fan of Backlund this season on the PP.

Ineffective to say the least.  Only good getting the puck out, not creating plays to keep it in.  I'm not pinning the failure of the 2nd unt on him, just saying he wasn;t helpful there.  

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think that if the 1st unit is scoring once per game, no point in changing that unit.

We saw less than a minute of the new 2nd unit, but I though they looked good.

Crarnik-Janko-Neal

Brodie-Ras.

 

Give them more than a minute to get used to each other.  What I did see was Ras being able to hold the line.  I was never a fan of Backlund this season on the PP.

Ineffective to say the least.  Only good getting the puck out, not creating plays to keep it in.  I'm not pinning the failure of the 2nd unt on him, just saying he wasn;t helpful there.  

 

I just want the 2nd unit to be a threat. 

I don’t think Backlund has been bad in all parts of the game as much as he’s just missed open nets, or hitting the logos. Ya that is bad but he’s one of the only ones getting those chances with consistency. Although there are games where he is off, but I think it’s looked worse because the spotlight is on him while others don’t have as lofty expectations so we give them a pass. 

 

It is frustrating and pisses me off too when he’s like that. Cross has said the metrics/numbers are good for him, but for whatever reason he’s got a terrible shooting percentage when not with Frolik. 

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Here is my attempt at trade deadline deals.

 

To Carolina:

Mike Smith 50% retained

2019 4th round pick

 

To Calgary:

Petr Mrazek

 

Smith and 4th go to Carolina, it gives Carolina a chance to look at Smith as they look for starter next year, Smith will want a chance to play as he is in contract year. Mrazek has a good 5v5 save %, and could be a good backup for fellow countryman Rittich.

 

To Dallas:

Michael Frolik

 

To Calgary:

Jason Spezza

 

This trade might be tough to make as Dallas is in a playoff spot and not be willing to move Spezza. That being said they are deep at center but light on the right side, Frolik gives them some much needed two way ability. Spezza gives Calgary a legit playmaking center.

 

To St. Louis:

Jon Gillies

2019 3rd round pick

 

To Calgary:

Jay Bouwmeester

 

St.Louis gets a goalie with some potential, that they can see if they can get back on track, plus a pick. Calgary gets a LHS defenseman who can play up the lineup if needed.

 

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm

Tkachuk-Spezza-Neal

Bennett-Backlund-Ryan

Mangiapane-Jankowski-Hathaway

Czarnik

 

Giordano-Brodie

Hanifin-Hamonic

Bouwmeester-Andersson

Prout

 

Rittich

Mrazek

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12 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Who ?

From sportsnet.ca

 

I would guess that none of these guys will sign 5 year $5MM/year contracts.  Possibly money better spent.  

 

More notable UFAs of 2019: Tyler Myers, Jimmy Howard, Jordan Eberle, Eric Staal, Mats Zuccarello, Gustav Nyquist, Brock Nelson, Zdeno Chara, Alexander Edler, Michael Ferland, Semyon Varlamov, Jakob Silfverberg, Joe Thornton, Ryan Dzingel, Brian Boyle, Jason Pominville, Nick Jensen, Joonas Donskoi, Jason Spezza, Marcus Johansson, Valtteri Filppula, Derick Brassard, Justin Williams, Ron Hainsey, Patrick Maroon, Jay Bouwmeester, Robin Lehner, Cam Talbot, Mike Smith, Marc Methot, Deryk Engelland, Mikko Koskinen, Niklas Kronwall

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6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I was going to expand on this and my answer wasn't quite complete. 

 

To be fair, Neal probably should have a least 4-5 goals just due to bad luck. If he had those 4-5 goals he's on pace for around 15-16 and that would be equal to expecations I would think, when you factor he's down 2 mins in Ice time from last year to this year and on the 2nd PP unit. I understand he'd be well off in points but that's a product of line mates too. So I'll retract, it's not fair to say this was "easily" predicted. 

 

And to be fair as well, much of the criticism around Neal has been his give a crap meter and I think hat is a fair critique of Neal. I made this comparison earlier in the year but he's alot like Sam Bennett last year. Bennett did a lot of good things the last 2 year but they weren't translating on the score sheet, box score, or for many fans. He flipped that by upping the physical component this year and so far Neal has not brought that physical element he was supposed to. So I can see why many fans look at and think he is doing nothing to aid the team because he isn't playing physical, and the good things he is doing aren't translating to success. 

 

 Trading him is going to be really challenge I think. The main reason the Flames got him is they were the only team willing to go 5 years so given that, plus his play I don't think he is very movable. You are going to have to take on another bad contract if you want to move him and depending on who that is it may or may not be a good idea. 

 

I don't think it is fair to say Neal has been unlucky.  His goal against Pittsburgh was a fanned shot that comically fooled the goalie.  His last goal bounced in off his skate.  So half his goals have been fluky.  Take those 2 goals away and he is on pace for only 4 goals this year.  

 

I agree it will be difficult to trade Neal.  My guess is his contract will be bought out at some point.  

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1 hour ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

I don't think it is fair to say Neal has been unlucky.  His goal against Pittsburgh was a fanned shot that comically fooled the goalie.  His last goal bounced in off his skate.  So half his goals have been fluky.  Take those 2 goals away and he is on pace for only 4 goals this year.  

 

I agree it will be difficult to trade Neal.  My guess is his contract will be bought out at some point.  

I would agree I think Neal will be bought out after year 3 or 4 if he plays the way he has played this season.

 

I liked his game tonight in the second half of the game. Need more of that. He hasn’t been able to string good games together 

 

Much of this season is on him but I would also put some of it on who he’s been playing with. He is a bit like Ferland in that he can produce with skilled players but he can’t drive a line 

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Neal is leading the Flames with a -12 when the team as a whole is +34 in goal differential.

 

 

 

 

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I've been a David Savard fan for awhile and it looks like he's finding himself on the 3rd D pairing in Columbus with between 15 to 18 minutes of ice time per game.   3-years $4.25-per.  I've always seen him in the same light as Brett Pesce and Travis Hamonic.  RHS RD with size.  Is this a situation where a player has tuned out his coach like Bobrovsky has?  Is this a buy-low opportunity?  

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I think it’s time to roll consistent lines.

The 3M line has shown they are our 2nd line, no need to overthink it.

Bennett-Jankowski-Neal will be a good 3rd line if we make it consistent.

?-Ryan-Hathaway is fine as a 4th, likely Czarnik.

 

As a top team, I see no need to adjust for opponents pre-game.

It’s almost time to stop tinkering though. Adjust in game if necessary.

It looks like we’ve tried most of the formulas to separate 3M, so it’s time to accept all 3 play better as a unit. Let it be.

Bennett was flying last night. I can see the 3rd line being a good one but we have to let it grow, get them watching tape together, etc.

I believe that can be a very good line with coaching and patience.

 

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12 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

I don't think it is fair to say Neal has been unlucky.  His goal against Pittsburgh was a fanned shot that comically fooled the goalie.  His last goal bounced in off his skate.  So half his goals have been fluky.  Take those 2 goals away and he is on pace for only 4 goals this year.  

 

I agree it will be difficult to trade Neal.  My guess is his contract will be bought out at some point.  

 

Neal's 5 on 5 shooting percentage is currently half of his career norm and 4% lower then his next closest career low. I can think of at least 5-6 plays where he had open nets or open looks and he hit posts, missed the net or the puck hopped over his stick. 

 

His ability to generate shots and chances is no far off what he's done the last few seasons at 5on5. The main difference is his shooting % and if all he did was maintain his usually 10% from the last few seasons he's got 4 more goals. That screams bad luck to me. If we don't like the word luck that's fine but he's definetly having one of those seasons imo. No different then hamonic or frolik last year. 

 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Neal's 5 on 5 shooting percentage is currently half of his career norm and 4% lower then his next closest career low. I can think of at least 5-6 plays where he had open nets or open looks and he hit posts, missed the net or the puck hopped over his stick. 

 

His ability to generate shots and chances is no far off what he's done the last few seasons at 5on5. The main difference is his shooting % and if all he did was maintain his usually 10% from the last few seasons he's got 4 more goals. That screams bad luck to me. If we don't like the word luck that's fine but he's definetly having one of those seasons imo. No different then hamonic or frolik last year. 

 

I think that’s a good point.  There’s always a concern with older players that they are regressing, but sometimes guys just have off years.  Shooting well below career norms is usually a sign of that, and he could easily turn it back around.

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4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I think it’s time to roll consistent lines.

The 3M line has shown they are our 2nd line, no need to overthink it.

Bennett-Jankowski-Neal will be a good 3rd line if we make it consistent.

?-Ryan-Hathaway is fine as a 4th, likely Czarnik.

 

As a top team, I see no need to adjust for opponents pre-game.

It’s almost time to stop tinkering though. Adjust in game if necessary.

It looks like we’ve tried most of the formulas to separate 3M, so it’s time to accept all 3 play better as a unit. Let it be.

Bennett was flying last night. I can see the 3rd line being a good one but we have to let it grow, get them watching tape together, etc.

I believe that can be a very good line with coaching and patience.

 

I think I would prefer to see Quine on the 4th over Czarnik. I never heard any of the hype surrounding him before he was signed but in 28 games he's been mostly ineffective. Quine is a year younger, bigger, and only $700k. Plus I think he's made more of his opportunities while up.

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20 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I was going to expand on this and my answer wasn't quite complete. 

 

To be fair, Neal probably should have a least 4-5 goals just due to bad luck. If he had those 4-5 goals he's on pace for around 15-16 and that would be equal to expecations I would think, when you factor he's down 2 mins in Ice time from last year to this year and on the 2nd PP unit. I understand he'd be well off in points but that's a product of line mates too. So I'll retract, it's not fair to say this was "easily" predicted. 

 

And to be fair as well, much of the criticism around Neal has been his give a crap meter and I think hat is a fair critique of Neal. I made this comparison earlier in the year but he's alot like Sam Bennett last year. Bennett did a lot of good things the last 2 year but they weren't translating on the score sheet, box score, or for many fans. He flipped that by upping the physical component this year and so far Neal has not brought that physical element he was supposed to. So I can see why many fans look at and think he is doing nothing to aid the team because he isn't playing physical, and the good things he is doing aren't translating to success. 

 

 Trading him is going to be really challenge I think. The main reason the Flames got him is they were the only team willing to go 5 years so given that, plus his play I don't think he is very movable. You are going to have to take on another bad contract if you want to move him and depending on who that is it may or may not be a good idea. 

Actually bringing up Bennett is a good example because I maintain that high calibre players or ones that deem themselves high calibre players play better with the other high calibre players. Both Bennett and Neal have shown this with their play and sometimes with their attitude. I said this earlier and believe this to be true with respect to Neal expecting to come in and play alongside Gaudreau and Monahan, when this went sideways so did his attitude. I think he is gradually getting over that disappointment and hope he buys in to playing hard with Bennett and Jankowski, two others trying to advance their worth to the team.

BTW Neal has won wherever he has played so maybe he is our Good Luck charm, keep him.

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20 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I’d put Neal in a shooting position on the 1st PP. 

 

Put Tkachuk on the 2nd unit to give it more of a threat. In games where the Flames absolutely need a goal then put Tkachuk on the first unit. 

 

Not in a specific order

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

 Giordano, Lindholm 

 

Tkachuk, Backlund, Ryan/xxx

Hanifin, Andersson 

 

i would almost do the 3M line because they know each other and somehow Frolik makes Backlund tick. 

 

Maybe you do try Czarnik there, or leave it open for a guy that is having a good game.

 

 

There is little doubt the 1st PP unit is loaded while the 2nd is not. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are the best playmakers we have and BP should split them up between the two units. I wouldn't mind seeing what you have suggested for the #1 unit but I would rather see this for Unit #2

Bennett, Tkachuk, Frolik as the forwards with Backlund and Andersson on the points. The reason I would do this is because Backlund supports the LS best and supports getting back to help Andersson. All of Bennett, Tkachuk and Frolik are good lower down working the boards and around the net. Get some pucks to Andersson because he has a fairly accurate shot on net.

Watching Hanifin lately scares me for using him on the PP as he isn't the fastest getting back. I have to be honest of not being real impressed with Ryan or Czarnick

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14 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

From sportsnet.ca

 

I would guess that none of these guys will sign 5 year $5MM/year contracts.  Possibly money better spent.  

 

More notable UFAs of 2019: Tyler Myers, Jimmy Howard, Jordan Eberle, Eric Staal, Mats Zuccarello, Gustav Nyquist, Brock Nelson, Zdeno Chara, Alexander Edler, Michael Ferland, Semyon Varlamov, Jakob Silfverberg, Joe Thornton, Ryan Dzingel, Brian Boyle, Jason Pominville, Nick Jensen, Joonas Donskoi, Jason Spezza, Marcus Johansson, Valtteri Filppula, Derick Brassard, Justin Williams, Ron Hainsey, Patrick Maroon, Jay Bouwmeester, Robin Lehner, Cam Talbot, Mike Smith, Marc Methot, Deryk Engelland, Mikko Koskinen, Niklas Kronwall

So you think all of these UFAs are better than Neal ?

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19 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

From sportsnet.ca

 

I would guess that none of these guys will sign 5 year $5MM/year contracts.  Possibly money better spent.  

 

More notable UFAs of 2019: Tyler Myers, Jimmy Howard, Jordan Eberle, Eric Staal, Mats Zuccarello, Gustav Nyquist, Brock Nelson, Zdeno Chara, Alexander Edler, Michael Ferland, Semyon Varlamov, Jakob Silfverberg, Joe Thornton, Ryan Dzingel, Brian Boyle, Jason Pominville, Nick Jensen, Joonas Donskoi, Jason Spezza, Marcus Johansson, Valtteri Filppula, Derick Brassard, Justin Williams, Ron Hainsey, Patrick Maroon, Jay Bouwmeester, Robin Lehner, Cam Talbot, Mike Smith, Marc Methot, Deryk Engelland, Mikko Koskinen, Niklas Kronwall

just off the top of my head i can see the bolded ones doing that or more 

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4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

So you think all of these UFAs are better than Neal ?

 

I am saying that most of them could be signed for better value.  Less $/year and/or shorter term.    Based on Oct. 2018 to Jan. 2019, none of them are a significant downgrade from Neal.  

 

My concern is that the Flames have Neal locked up for four more years.  If his play doesn't improve significantly his contract is a boat anchor.

 

Going back to your original suggestion - trading Neal for Panarin, I guess I just don't see why Columbus would want to lock themselves into 4+ years of Neal at $5MM/season, when they could likely sign a similar player this summer for better value.  Forwards who score 5-10 goals per season don't generally make $25MM over  5 seasons.  

 

Maybe he will turn things around in the second half of the season.  Maybe there are GMs out there who think they can revive his career.  For what it's worth I think what you see is what you get.  

 

 

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