Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

15,375 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

just off the top of my head i can see the bolded ones doing that or more 

 

You are probably right.  I got a bit carried away.  I don't like kicking a guy when he is down.  I didn't like the Neal signing from day one, so I am probably never going to be convinced it was a good idea.  

 

Most, or all of those guys are significantly younger than James Neal.  There is less risk that they are past the prime of their careers.

 

Would anyone offer James Neal $20MM for four years if he was coming into free agency this summer?  Or would they rather sign one of the bolded UFAs for more money, or one of the remaining UFAs for less money?

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

You are probably right.  I got a bit carried away.  I don't like kicking a guy when he is down.  I didn't like the Neal signing from day one, so I am probably never going to be convinced it was a good idea.  

 

Most, or all of those guys are significantly younger than James Neal.  There is less risk that they are past the prime of their careers.

 

Would anyone offer James Neal $20MM for four years if he was coming into free agency this summer?  Or would they rather sign one of the bolded UFAs for more money, or one of the remaining UFAs for less money?

 

 

 

 

I'll be totally honest , at this stage , I'm not overly concerned over Neal.  Did I expect more to show at this time?  absolutely , but many factors are involved .

This is not a guy who had a great year and got paid for it.. this is a guy who has done nothing but score since he came in the league .

I may sing a different tune if we are sitting here next year having the same discussion , but I'm not ready yet to say he suddenly fell off a cliff overnight 

Like I said at the top, many factors ..

1) his previously mentioned shooting %..just like abnormally high ones, they eventually level out 

2) this guy has played a LOT of hockey last few years ..played until June , changed teams 2 weeks later .. moved .. then went to China

3) his first foray into a Canadian market .. hes never been more scrutinized 

4) he Historically shows up when it matters most .. kind of like Bennett.. he pops a couple big ones this spring i don't care if he doesn't score another goal until then 

5) I see him doing the right things , as much as his % is down , hes a shooter .. he needs someone to get it to him.. ive seen him many times get to the right spot , but then nobody gets it to him .. many times I wonder why hes even on the 2nd power play , they pass around the outside and he never even gets to touch the puck

 

a lot is on him , absolutely, but they also need to factor him in and use him in somes situations better ..and get him playing with a decent set up guy 

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Neal seems to be a lucky charm of late.  Two straight Cup Finals appearances.  Has any player ever gone to Cup Finals with 3 different teams in 3 consecutive seasons?  And most importantly, is 3rd time the charm?  (Don't ask Rhett Warrener).

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2 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

I am saying that most of them could be signed for better value.  Less $/year and/or shorter term.    Based on Oct. 2018 to Jan. 2019, none of them are a significant downgrade from Neal.  

 

My concern is that the Flames have Neal locked up for four more years.  If his play doesn't improve significantly his contract is a boat anchor.

 

Going back to your original suggestion - trading Neal for Panarin, I guess I just don't see why Columbus would want to lock themselves into 4+ years of Neal at $5MM/season, when they could likely sign a similar player this summer for better value.  Forwards who score 5-10 goals per season don't generally make $25MM over  5 seasons.  

 

Maybe he will turn things around in the second half of the season.  Maybe there are GMs out there who think they can revive his career.  For what it's worth I think what you see is what you get.  

 

 

We were all concerned about Hamonic last season and he as come around in is 2nd season with the team. I'm not going to argue about Neal's value because he has earned the contracts he as had and before it's over here I expect the same. Taking a small sample to base your complaints is hardly a fair assessment of the player but like you said you didn't like him in the first place.

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

We were all concerned about Hamonic last season and he as come around in is 2nd season with the team. I'm not going to argue about Neal's value because he has earned the contracts he as had and before it's over here I expect the same. Taking a small sample to base your complaints is hardly a fair assessment of the player but like you said you didn't like him in the first place.

Much to my chagrin, I've gotta agree with you Mac.;)

 

I honestly don't think we need to shop anyone.

Frolik was the flavour of the month. 1st star last night.

If our first line gets shutdown, I'm of the mind that's okay and improving.

I think we have the team we need personally.

I'd trade for a guy like Valimaki, but just have to wait instead.

He'll be back, fully healthy.

I like those trades. They're called patience. lol

Just keep 3M and BJNow together.

We need Neal now, of course.

Jankowski has me sold after seeing a few shifts vs Toews.

Just tell him everyone is Toews. lol

He was so freaking driven.

Bennett's motoring, Neal will find his play with them. Game film.

Appreciate BP's efforts so far, but the 3M line and the Janx-Bennett work in progress really didn't need to change.

We aren't a 1 line team, and the 4th line isn't too shabby either.

Welcome to NOT-Carolina. Good career move.

Let's bring this thing in.

 

 

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On 1/11/2019 at 11:02 PM, stubblejumper1 said:

From sportsnet.ca

 

I would guess that none of these guys will sign 5 year $5MM/year contracts.  Possibly money better spent.  

 

More notable UFAs of 2019: Tyler Myers, Jimmy Howard, Jordan Eberle, Eric Staal, Mats Zuccarello, Gustav Nyquist, Brock Nelson, Zdeno Chara, Alexander Edler, Michael Ferland, Semyon Varlamov, Jakob Silfverberg, Joe Thornton, Ryan Dzingel, Brian Boyle, Jason Pominville, Nick Jensen, Joonas Donskoi, Jason Spezza, Marcus Johansson, Valtteri Filppula, Derick Brassard, Justin Williams, Ron Hainsey, Patrick Maroon, Jay Bouwmeester, Robin Lehner, Cam Talbot, Mike Smith, Marc Methot, Deryk Engelland, Mikko Koskinen, Niklas Kronwall

 

I’d love to see us pickup Brassard, with the way he steps up and produces in the playoffs. He’d be the guy I’d use to center Neal and help set him up and distribute the puck on a third line. However, I know it’s wishful thinking on my part. Pittsburgh ain’t giving him up because they need him for the playoffs, and there’s too much (undeserved) love for Ryan on our end (plus we ain’t giving up Janko) to make room for him. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Neal seems to be a lucky charm of late.  Two straight Cup Finals appearances.  Has any player ever gone to Cup Finals with 3 different teams in 3 consecutive seasons?  And most importantly, is 3rd time the charm?  (Don't ask Rhett Warrener).

 

Yessir. In recent memory, even. Marian Hossa. 

2008 - Penguins (loss)

2009 - Red Wings (loss)

2010 - Blackhawks (win)

Love. 

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14 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Much to my chagrin, I've gotta agree with you Mac.;)

 

I honestly don't think we need to shop anyone.

Frolik was the flavour of the month. 1st star last night.

If our first line gets shutdown, I'm of the mind that's okay and improving.

I think we have the team we need personally.

I'd trade for a guy like Valimaki, but just have to wait instead.

He'll be back, fully healthy.

I like those trades. They're called patience. lol

Just keep 3M and BJNow together.

We need Neal now, of course.

Jankowski has me sold after seeing a few shifts vs Toews.

Just tell him everyone is Toews. lol

He was so freaking driven.

Bennett's motoring, Neal will find his play with them. Game film.

Appreciate BP's efforts so far, but the 3M line and the Janx-Bennett work in progress really didn't need to change.

We aren't a 1 line team, and the 4th line isn't too shabby either.

Welcome to NOT-Carolina. Good career move.

Let's bring this thing in.

 

 

We don't always disagree con.

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On ‎2019‎-‎01‎-‎12 at 9:30 PM, lou44291 said:

 

I’d love to see us pickup Brassard, with the way he steps up and produces in the playoffs. He’d be the guy I’d use to center Neal and help set him up and distribute the puck on a third line. However, I know it’s wishful thinking on my part. Pittsburgh ain’t giving him up because they need him for the playoffs, and there’s too much (undeserved) love for Ryan on our end (plus we ain’t giving up Janko) to make room for him. 

 

 

Jankowski would be exactly who we would be dealing to upgrade any C position and I agree it would be the wrong move. Jankowski has grown his game this season and I think he deserves our support. If Bennett, Jankowski and Neal can become a force we should be in good shape heading to the playoffs.

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Can see how it develops but I honestly would be putting jankowski out there and seeing if they can sell high. Flames have too many of the same centres and I personally don't see jankowski ever moving ahead of Monahan or Backlund. He could develop into a nice shutdown 3rd line center maybe, but at 24 he's still got a ways to go and the clock is ticking a bit. I'd actually like to see him moved to the wing but that is getting crowded too. 

 

Would have no problem using him to grab an upgrade at either 2nd line RW or center. Wouldn't move him just to move him but I also don't think he's a must keep. 

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3 hours ago, cross16 said:

Can see how it develops but I honestly would be putting jankowski out there and seeing if they can sell high. Flames have too many of the same centres and I personally don't see jankowski ever moving ahead of Monahan or Backlund. He could develop into a nice shutdown 3rd line center maybe, but at 24 he's still got a ways to go and the clock is ticking a bit. I'd actually like to see him moved to the wing but that is getting crowded too. 

 

Would have no problem using him to grab an upgrade at either 2nd line RW or center. Wouldn't move him just to move him but I also don't think he's a must keep. 

 

Jordan Staal is my comparable for Jankowski.  I think Jankowski can be that, if not already from time to time.  A PK specialist who can play a decent two-way game 5-on-5.  Has a rare mix of speed and size.

 

Staal is $6-mil-per and if we can keep Janko's price down to the $3-mil range long term and get the same player, then he gives us a good base moving forward.

 

In other words, I wouldn't trade Jankowski unless we get a Jordan Staal-level of player back. 

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4 hours ago, cross16 said:

Can see how it develops but I honestly would be putting jankowski out there and seeing if they can sell high. Flames have too many of the same centres and I personally don't see jankowski ever moving ahead of Monahan or Backlund. He could develop into a nice shutdown 3rd line center maybe, but at 24 he's still got a ways to go and the clock is ticking a bit. I'd actually like to see him moved to the wing but that is getting crowded too. 

 

Would have no problem using him to grab an upgrade at either 2nd line RW or center. Wouldn't move him just to move him but I also don't think he's a must keep. 

 

If we could trade Jimako as part of a deal for a RHS C, that would help a bit.

Lindholm is the only guy playing on the RW that has dpne anything.

Frolik is great, but is not a C to take many draws.

If we could use Janko in a deal for Schenn, that would be nice.

 

 

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I wonder if the Rangers would move Pavel Buchnevich, he seems like a guy that if given a better opportunity he could break out. Skilled player who can play either wing.

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9 hours ago, cross16 said:

Can see how it develops but I honestly would be putting jankowski out there and seeing if they can sell high. Flames have too many of the same centres and I personally don't see jankowski ever moving ahead of Monahan or Backlund. He could develop into a nice shutdown 3rd line center maybe, but at 24 he's still got a ways to go and the clock is ticking a bit. I'd actually like to see him moved to the wing but that is getting crowded too. 

 

Would have no problem using him to grab an upgrade at either 2nd line RW or center. Wouldn't move him just to move him but I also don't think he's a must keep. 

I don't agree at all.

Let's cut off our nose to spite our face.

How about we are 1st in the Western Conference?

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9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I don't agree at all.

Let's cut off our nose to spite our face.

How about we are 1st in the Western Conference?

Personally I think BP is starting to settle into the lines that will work for this group. I wouldn't be making any trades but this isn't to say the Flames management see it this way. Last night Mahoney being interviewed said he is heading out for two weeks looking at some considerations prior to the TDL. I think the most improved forwards outside of the top line and Tkachuk are Jankowski, Bennett and Hathaway. Even with all the crap around Frolik I wouldn't trade him until the offseason, if then.

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9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I don't agree at all.

Let's cut off our nose to spite our face.

How about we are 1st in the Western Conference?

 

Can still always get better and also just to clarify I'm not saying they have to trade him tomorrow just he could be used to get better. Maybe that's not the TDL but it's the off-season. 

 

Despite being 1st I think there are still some very clear deficiencies on this roster that could look at being addressed. Doesn't mean they have to, but I also don't agree with the idea of "hey we're 1st so everything is good" mentality either. Can always, and should always, want to get better. 

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Two higher profile names out there right now. I know Silfverberg has drawn interest in the past.

 


 

Quote

 

On the Penguins side, it now appears likely Brassard will not be a Penguin beyond the trade deadline. Multiple sources confirmed the Penguins have moved from “could” deal Brassard to expecting to deal the center.

 

https://pittsburghhockeynow.com/pittsburgh-penguins-trade-rumors-deep-trade-market-helps-and-hurts/

 

 

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49 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Can still always get better and also just to clarify I'm not saying they have to trade him tomorrow just he could be used to get better. Maybe that's not the TDL but it's the off-season. 

 

Despite being 1st I think there are still some very clear deficiencies on this roster that could look at being addressed. Doesn't mean they have to, but I also don't agree with the idea of "hey we're 1st so everything is good" mentality either. Can always, and should always, want to get better. 

There is also allowing the team itself get better as it goes along and IMO it has been doing that gradually. The answer for improvement doesn't always lie outside the organization

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4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Two higher profile names out there right now. I know Silfverberg has drawn interest in the past.

 


 

 

 

Both players would make a lot of sense. Brassard would help our depth down the middle and would help with secondary scoring.

 

Silfverberg is a good two way player with a great release.

 

The cost might be prohibitive in both cases.

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14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Two higher profile names out there right now. I know Silfverberg has drawn interest in the past.

 


 

 

 

Silfverberg is one of those guys that just knows how to score; a Flames killer.

If he's traded, I hope it's in the East.

 

Saying that, if not for the pending UFA status and the need to re-sign Tkachuk, I would be all for this player.

Very good in the playoffs.

Middling stats on a defensive (or injured) Ducks team.

Pretty consistent guy with good speed and a great shot.

 

I think it would take at least Bennett to get the deal done.

Probably a bit more.

Neal-Janko-Silfverberg???

Interesting concept.

 

EDIT - I guess you could replace Frolik on the 2nd line, but I think it makes more sense to spread it out.  Frolik has been great since re-joining the 3M line.  Makes them all fit a bit better.

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57 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Can still always get better and also just to clarify I'm not saying they have to trade him tomorrow just he could be used to get better. Maybe that's not the TDL but it's the off-season. 

 

Despite being 1st I think there are still some very clear deficiencies on this roster that could look at being addressed. Doesn't mean they have to, but I also don't agree with the idea of "hey we're 1st so everything is good" mentality either. Can always, and should always, want to get better. 

Agreed-- Barring any significant injuries, I like our team, our depth and the chemistry .. a trade for the sake of it could disrupt that ..

 I'm actually curious at this point who that "playoff guy " that we can go get would be..  you know , the depth guy that every cup winner seems to add that plays a significant role and just gels it all together ..

Last year you had DSP,  Pittsburgh had the Daley's the Hanisey's..even in 04 we had the Nilsson's the Neimmenin's (sp)..

Internally , that could be the time that guys Quine, Lazar and Peluso could shine....

I dont even think we need the D depth in trade .. apparently Stone is close and so is Valimaki

A guy like a Matt Hendricks, a guy that you question for the regular season but come playoff time he brings intangibles

 

for me , i'm looking for "that guy" and #3 goalie as insurance 

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1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

There is also allowing the team itself get better as it goes along and IMO it has been doing that gradually. The answer for improvement doesn't always lie outside the organization

 

Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. For me, the deficiencies on their roster are not going to be solved internally as certain skill sets are lacking. 

 

And just to clarify, of course the Flames are a good team. If they do nothing between now and the TDL I won't be upset as I think they have a good team and I thikn they have a shot (as i've argued several times in the past). They don't NEED to makes moves, but if they want to maybe looking at giving themsvles a better chance there are some moves they COULD make. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Can still always get better and also just to clarify I'm not saying they have to trade him tomorrow just he could be used to get better. Maybe that's not the TDL but it's the off-season. 

 

Despite being 1st I think there are still some very clear deficiencies on this roster that could look at being addressed. Doesn't mean they have to, but I also don't agree with the idea of "hey we're 1st so everything is good" mentality either. Can always, and should always, want to get better. 

 

Yup 

 

I think it is great that they have the confidence to comeback but at the same time, it’s not a good habit. 

 

The teqm ram has been a slow starter for years now. I guess could call it a feeling out the game process but I’d like them to I still their will from the drop of the puck. It’s hard to be mentally prepared in an 82 game season. But I guess seeing great players and teams do it in the past has spoiled me.

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57 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Agreed-- Barring any significant injuries, I like our team, our depth and the chemistry .. a trade for the sake of it could disrupt that ..

 I'm actually curious at this point who that "playoff guy " that we can go get would be..  you know , the depth guy that every cup winner seems to add that plays a significant role and just gels it all together ..

Last year you had DSP,  Pittsburgh had the Daley's the Hanisey's..even in 04 we had the Nilsson's the Neimmenin's (sp)..

Internally , that could be the time that guys Quine, Lazar and Peluso could shine....

I dont even think we need the D depth in trade .. apparently Stone is close and so is Valimaki

A guy like a Matt Hendricks, a guy that you question for the regular season but come playoff time he brings intangibles

 

for me , i'm looking for "that guy" and #3 goalie as insurance 

NEAL

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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Both players would make a lot of sense. Brassard would help our depth down the middle and would help with secondary scoring.

 

Silfverberg is a good two way player with a great release.

 

The cost might be prohibitive in both cases.

 

Brassard is the type of center i was looking at for the bottom 6. Someone who can distribute the puck more effecitvely and could really help that 2nd PP move the puck (upgrade to Ryan).

 

His contract value is very good but his play has been very bad this year. Not sure what to make of his cost but also the fact he's struggling so much in Pittsburgh gives me a lot of pause too. 

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