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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

You won't do Mangiapane + Hanifin for Eichel?

 

I'm not exactly sure why Buffalo needs another LD.

After this draft they will have two top 2 D prospects.

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59 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

You won't do Mangiapane + Hanifin for Eichel?

 

If it was only those 2 pieces, maybe. 

 

But those 2 pieces plus multiple picks/prospects? No. 

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On 6/23/2021 at 1:01 PM, travel_dude said:

 

From asset management, it makes sense to sign Danault for Backlund or less money, then trade Backlund.

I don't think trading Gaudreau and keeping Monahan and Tkachuk makes us any better, unless we are getting a franchise player back.

 

I don't hate your top 9, just don't think it's really that competitive.

Not even as good as what we have today.

I get it, trust me, but where would we find a Ctr as good as Monahan that won’t cost  10 mil per?

 

also, I’d rather keep Tkacuck over gaudreau as he’s younger and has a better chance to rebound where he’s only entering his prime vs gaudreau is in it and will start to slowly get worse…on that note, the same holds true to Monahan, but the only reason I’m thinking keep vs trade is the cost for a Ctr of equal or better skills is probably gonna cost Eichel money at 10 mil per vs Monahan at what around 6.5?  
 

I can see too much movement making holes in other areas such as moving Monahan and Backlund both and keeping Lindholm that’s only 1 Ctr opening…and depending, if you keep gaudreau and Dube and Manji it’s probably a bit cheaper but that’s a super small left side and there are still holes to fill at Ctr and RW so it’s kinda a balance thing I was suggesting 

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According to a report Colulmbus is out on Eichel. Their offer was apparently:

 

Elvis Merzlikins

5th overall

Either Texier or Peeke

Chinakhov or Marchenko (prospects)

 

Not sure if they are out because they decided it was too much, Sabres didn't like it or had better offers, but if that was seriously being considered by the Sabres then I think my suspicion is right that the price won't be as high as we think. That's not a great trade package outside of the 5th overall pick. 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

According to a report Colulmbus is out on Eichel. Their offer was apparently:

 

Elvis Merzlikins

5th overall

Either Texier or Peeke

Chinakhov or Marchenko (prospects)

 

Not sure if they are out because they decided it was too much, Sabres didn't like it or had better offers, but if that was seriously being considered by the Sabres then I think my suspicion is right that the price won't be as high as we think. That's not a great trade package outside of the 5th overall pick. 

That’s a solid point so maybe Monahan + Gaudreau and 12th OA could

land Eichel and Reinhart…

 

I know it’s a bit of a gamble

move for both teams and all, but it could be worth while for Cgy in terms of Getting a bit younger by a few years and extending that window while Tkacuck, Lindholm, Manji Dube and our current D core (with or with out Gio) are all still in the same window bracket as Reinhart and Eichel are…and it could pay off there is the possibility Eichel could develop into a impactful play driving Ctr which Monahan is not he’s more a 2 way scoring 2nd line Ctr 

 

the age thing is where I’d see the value in Eichel and Reinhart for Monahan and Gaudreau (also that’s why the 12 OA would be added and heck add Phillips in too but NOT Zary he’s a better prospect and could slot into the 3rd line Ctr roll 

 

Tkacuck/Eichel/Lindholm 

Manji/reinhart/????
Dube/Zary/????

Lucic/???/???

 

that’s not 1/2 bad in one major move then see what holes you can fill by FA and with any luck trading Backlund land a solid RW for the 2nd line…heck if we are super lucky Lucic  is taken in the expansion and sign Montour to replace trading Gio for some Bottom 6 pieces at Ctr and the wings…lots of luck but in some ways Eichel could work…if other things fall in place.

 

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33 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

That’s a solid point so maybe Monahan + Gaudreau and 12th OA could

land Eichel and Reinhart…

 

I know it’s a bit of a gamble

move for both teams and all, but it could be worth while for Cgy in terms of Getting a bit younger by a few years and extending that window while Tkacuck, Lindholm, Manji Dube and our current D core (with or with out Gio) are all still in the same window bracket as Reinhart and Eichel are…and it could pay off there is the possibility Eichel could develop into a impactful play driving Ctr which Monahan is not he’s more a 2 way scoring 2nd line Ctr 

 

the age thing is where I’d see the value in Eichel and Reinhart for Monahan and Gaudreau (also that’s why the 12 OA would be added and heck add Phillips in too but NOT Zary he’s a better prospect and could slot into the 3rd line Ctr roll 

 

Tkacuck/Eichel/Lindholm 

Manji/reinhart/????
Dube/Zary/????

Lucic/???/???

 

that’s not 1/2 bad in one major move then see what holes you can fill by FA and with any luck trading Backlund land a solid RW for the 2nd line…heck if we are super lucky Lucic  is taken in the expansion and sign Montour to replace trading Gio for some Bottom 6 pieces at Ctr and the wings…lots of luck but in some ways Eichel could work…if other things fall in place.

 

 

Agreed MP. I'm not sure how many other teams are willing to give up a 26 and 27 year old NHL player (Mony, Gaudreau) in a trade with Buff. Of course, Johnny's value would be higher if there was more term left on his contract, but what if BT could do a sign and trade with JH? Term doesn't have to be long, just LONGER. 3years, 4years maybe? If not, it'll definitely cost us a pick and/or prospect in addition to Mony and Johnny. 

 

I personally like the 1 stop shop because it rarely happens where you have 2 teams that are looking to change 2 or more players on their team at the same time. I think we align very well with Buffalo in this regard. And this is by no means a dump of a trade! JH and Mony are still young and quite frankly, I think they'll feast on the East. They're players that fit the Eastern Conference mold to a T. 

 

I'd still target Danault after trading Backlund. I see Backs going to Minnesota or Seattle, personally. 

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3 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

Agreed MP. I'm not sure how many other teams are willing to give up a 26 and 27 year old NHL player (Mony, Gaudreau) in a trade with Buff. Of course, Johnny's value would be higher if there was more term left on his contract, but what if BT could do a sign and trade with JH? Term doesn't have to be long, just LONGER. 3years, 4years maybe? If not, it'll definitely cost us a pick and/or prospect in addition to Mony and Johnny. 

 

I personally like the 1 stop shop because it rarely happens where you have 2 teams that are looking to change 2 or more players on their team at the same time. I think we align very well with Buffalo in this regard. And this is by no means a dump of a trade! JH and Mony are still young and quite frankly, I think they'll feast on the East. They're players that fit the Eastern Conference mold to a T. 

 

I'd still target Danault after trading Backlund. I see Backs going to Minnesota or Seattle, personally. 

 

As much as it might make sense to extend Gaudreau, I don't believe the timing would line up with the draft.

He can re-sign on July 28th, IIRC.

The other thing I would point out is that Gaudreau would not re-sign unless he agreed to a sign-and-trade.

He has no real rights, but his agent isn't dumb enough to do that.

 

I think the even harder part is the Monahan M-NTC.

10 team no trade list.

I suspect most or all are in the USA.

But, he could also be sold on him + Gaudreau going there.

Close to Ontario.

Close to NJ.

Wives and girlfriends might have something to say though.

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That CBJ offer is interesting, I don't think Buffalo would be particularly interested in that though.

 

The 5th pick was obviously the crown jewel

 

Merzlikins is unrestricted in a year. I could see that scaring BUF away. In theory, they could move him at the TDL, but he's gonna be hung out to dry in Buffalo, his numbers wouldn't be great and that could limit your return at a 2022 TDL

 

Alex Texier is a pretty similar player to Dube. Andrew Peeke is an RHD, 20pts in 36 AHL games, 6pts in 33 NHL games, 23yrs old

 

Chinakov was the surprise of the 2020 1st round, probably the 2nd best prospect CBJ has, behind Foudy. Pretty thin prospect pool in Columbus though. Marchenko is still unsigned, that could scare the Sabres a little bit, Marchenko is signed through this upcoming season.

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10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah I get that. Makes me think of ownership, "do you even get how this works"? It does nothing but set everyone up for failure.

It's in their own history, trade your star for an A prospect that became the face of the franchise.

Trade a 2nd rd pick for a goalie that needed an opportunity.

It's so prevalent in the league, it hits you in the face with a hammer.

Yet we're all terrified of training camp invites, knowing some of these plugs are getting spots ahead of young players for absolutely no reason.

Then everything remains completely dysfunctional because there are no hungry kids around threatening vets' positions to play better.

 

Ya sadly we are just talking to the hand.

 

We should therefore trade multiple pieces for Eichel otherwise, we just going to be stuck in the middle.

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3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

That’s a solid point so maybe Monahan + Gaudreau and 12th OA could

land Eichel and Reinhart…

 

I know it’s a bit of a gamble

move for both teams and all, but it could be worth while for Cgy in terms of Getting a bit younger by a few years and extending that window while Tkacuck, Lindholm, Manji Dube and our current D core (with or with out Gio) are all still in the same window bracket as Reinhart and Eichel are…and it could pay off there is the possibility Eichel could develop into a impactful play driving Ctr which Monahan is not he’s more a 2 way scoring 2nd line Ctr 

 

the age thing is where I’d see the value in Eichel and Reinhart for Monahan and Gaudreau (also that’s why the 12 OA would be added and heck add Phillips in too but NOT Zary he’s a better prospect and could slot into the 3rd line Ctr roll 

 

Tkacuck/Eichel/Lindholm 

Manji/reinhart/????
Dube/Zary/????

Lucic/???/???

 

that’s not 1/2 bad in one major move then see what holes you can fill by FA and with any luck trading Backlund land a solid RW for the 2nd line…heck if we are super lucky Lucic  is taken in the expansion and sign Montour to replace trading Gio for some Bottom 6 pieces at Ctr and the wings…lots of luck but in some ways Eichel could work…if other things fall in place.

 

 

100%.  Basically what I proposed earlier but target Danault for 3rd line Center.

 

Throw Dube into that top 6 and we have options because Dube can play all 3 positions.  Lindholm and Reinhart are C/RW so that adds flexibility.  Even Tkachuk has RW experience.  That top line of Tkachuk - Eichel - Lindholm could mean 80-points for all 3... Eichel could top 95-points.  The 2nd line of Mangiapane - Reinhart - Dube can all put up 50-to-65-points.  That's enough scoring from the top 6.  Now we need some supporting offense from the bottom 6 and D.

 

So I propose Gaudreau, Monahan, Hanifin, 12th overall for Eichel and Reinhart.  After losing Giordano via expansion draft, then we target Danault and Oleksiak via UFA.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, cross16 said:

According to a report Colulmbus is out on Eichel. Their offer was apparently:

 

Elvis Merzlikins

5th overall

Either Texier or Peeke

Chinakhov or Marchenko (prospects)

 

Not sure if they are out because they decided it was too much, Sabres didn't like it or had better offers, but if that was seriously being considered by the Sabres then I think my suspicion is right that the price won't be as high as we think. That's not a great trade package outside of the 5th overall pick. 

 

I wonder if the Flames could trade for Texier.  He's got that speed and smarts.  Like Brew said, kind of like Dube and I see a young Frolik in the making.  Will be a perfect 2nd/3rd liner for years to come and this team is missing someone that has breakaway speed.  Texier is good on the PK.  Not sure what it will cost though.

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

100%.  Basically what I proposed earlier but target Danault for 3rd line Center.

 

Throw Dube into that top 6 and we have options because Dube can play all 3 positions.  Lindholm and Reinhart are C/RW so that adds flexibility.  Even Tkachuk has RW experience.  That top line of Tkachuk - Eichel - Lindholm could mean 80-points for all 3... Eichel could top 95-points.  The 2nd line of Mangiapane - Reinhart - Dube can all put up 50-to-65-points.  That's enough scoring from the top 6.  Now we need some supporting offense from the bottom 6 and D.

 

So I propose Gaudreau, Monahan, Hanifin, 12th overall for Eichel and Reinhart.  After losing Giordano via expansion draft, then we target Danault and Oleksiak via UFA.  

 

 

100% agree Danault for 3rd line Ctr I forgot to add him as a FA but thanks for the add he’s an important part of that mix 

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27 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

Noted insider Dreger.  Actually, it's been awhile since Dregs was one.

I will wait till I hear someone with better sources than him.

Seraveli keeps saying Guadreau is likely to move.

And Eklund backs it up.... 🙂 

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2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

 

Well, nothing new here I guess.  Monahan will be tough to move after a down year.  If he was so highly sought after, then i'm sure BT would have pulled the trigger by now.  

 

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3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Well, nothing new here I guess.  Monahan will be tough to move after a down year.  If he was so highly sought after, then i'm sure BT would have pulled the trigger by now.  

 

Not really, you don’t move a guy just because everyone wants him, it needs to make sense for the team to move him.

 

up till about this year, moving him made no sense, that would be Pits trading Crosby back 5 years ago…just cause, and let’s be honest any and every team would want him.

 

anyway, it makes sense to move Monahan  and Gaudreau now Because the team

chemistry is way off 

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5 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Not really, you don’t move a guy just because everyone wants him, it needs to make sense for the team to move him.

 

up till about this year, moving him made no sense, that would be Pits trading Crosby back 5 years ago…just cause, and let’s be honest any and every team would want him.

 

anyway, it makes sense to move Monahan  and Gaudreau now Because the team

chemistry is way off 

 

Is it any wonder the team didn't perform up to snuff?

Major change to the top 6 and they didn't get the time to figure out how or who to play.

Wardo was not a good coach to figure that out.

We needed a top 6 C, and instead we took the only RW we had and moved him there.

We took a guy that was good with Lucic and Bennett and moved him to top lne RW.

We had no remaining top 6 RW.

 

By the time Dutter figured out that Mangiapane was a top 6 LW, Monahan was broken.

Monahan's decline follows the poor coaching decisions on usage.

Last year, Backlund should play LW with Gaudreau and Monahan.

This year, we should play Simon or Leivo or Ritchie or Nordstrom on RW.

 

Saying all that, I will suggest that either we trade/sign a true top 6 RW or we trade Monahan for another type of C.

Eichel is a pipe dream and would lose us too many pieces.

Perhaps Reinhart for Monahan.

 

As is, no trade but sign a RW:

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Monahan-RW

Ruzicka-Backlund-Dube

Lucic-Gawdin-Leivo

 

Trade for Reinhart:

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Reinhart-RW

Ruzicka-Backlund-Dube

Lucic-Gawdin-Leivo

 

In either case, the need is a RW guy that can either score of pass.

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9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Well, nothing new here I guess.  Monahan will be tough to move after a down year.  If he was so highly sought after, then i'm sure BT would have pulled the trigger by now.  

 

Everybody was tough to move in a flat cap season. And, Monahan has scored >30 goals for a few seasons and that’s no small feat. Plus, when the prettiest girl (centerman) at the dance gets taken (Eichel), the remaining girls get a whole lot prettier. 😏

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24 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

Everybody was tough to move in a flat cap season. And, Monahan has scored >30 goals for a few seasons and that’s no small feat. Plus, when the prettiest girl (centerman) at the dance gets taken (Eichel), the remaining girls get a whole lot prettier. 😏

 

And the GM's get a little drunker.

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38 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

And the GM's get a little drunker.

😂 for real! We’ve seen some of the contracts that have been handed out over the years… 

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4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Is it any wonder the team didn't perform up to snuff?

Major change to the top 6 and they didn't get the time to figure out how or who to play.

Wardo was not a good coach to figure that out.

We needed a top 6 C, and instead we took the only RW we had and moved him there.

We took a guy that was good with Lucic and Bennett and moved him to top lne RW.

We had no remaining top 6 RW.

 

By the time Dutter figured out that Mangiapane was a top 6 LW, Monahan was broken.

Monahan's decline follows the poor coaching decisions on usage.

Last year, Backlund should play LW with Gaudreau and Monahan.

This year, we should play Simon or Leivo or Ritchie or Nordstrom on RW.

 

Saying all that, I will suggest that either we trade/sign a true top 6 RW or we trade Monahan for another type of C.

Eichel is a pipe dream and would lose us too many pieces.

Perhaps Reinhart for Monahan.

 

As is, no trade but sign a RW:

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Monahan-RW

Ruzicka-Backlund-Dube

Lucic-Gawdin-Leivo

 

Trade for Reinhart:

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Reinhart-RW

Ruzicka-Backlund-Dube

Lucic-Gawdin-Leivo

 

In either case, the need is a RW guy that can either score of pass.

Gotta disagree and agree with you on that one TD, well parts of it…the coach and Ward being a horrible and having a negative effect on the team I TOTALLY agree with that…also the RW situation is a huge issue that needs to be dealt with…

 

but I have to disagree regarding the players, they are professionals and nearly every team dealt with the same issue…actually if anything one could argue the team it’s self had very little change compared to other teams…the top 6 players say for one, have played together  for a number of years so, as pros and considered to be high end players (Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Lindholm, Tachuck) aught to be able to play past a bad coach and things, they didn’t and couldn’t because there was something else going on and it would seem to Point to a possible leadership group issues as I had mentioned.

 

another area I have to disagree with you on is the Eichel being a pipe dream, many teams have cooled on him and his injury is a huge risk factor…while true Monahan has an injury issue to deal with too, it’s not nearly as risky so I’m thinking you dangle Gaudreau and Monahan at them for Eichel and Reinhart (obviously a bit of add in here and there) may be a very solid deal for them…now Eichel without that injury well I think the picture changes and you would see some insane offers like 2 first round picks and at least a player of Monahan or Gaudreau caliber for Eichel alone which Cgy could not do nor would it be worth the while…the other reason Buf would see that as a good deal is their contracts are super reasonable and the QO’s are low…further either of them could be flipped for a first round at the TDL next year as a rental…pretty sure any team making a cup push would take Monahan or Gaudreau on even with an expiring contract for 1st considering how low their caps would be a playoff bound team could actually take them both on…anyways I definitely see Gaudreau and Monahan being something Buf would seriously consider..may take an add on like a 2nd round pick and or a young prospect (which as long as it’s not Zary) I’d be ok with.

 

anyway just my take…and even still if Buf did that deal and we did sign Danault for 3rd line and manage to move Backlund for a proper 2nd line winger…there is still some holes to fill on the 4th especially at Ctr and yes RW again🙄 RW seems to be our Achilles heel…but 

 

Tachuck/Eichel/Lindholm 

Manji/Reinhart/Rw Backlund trade

Dube/Danault/Rw

 

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3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

but I have to disagree regarding the players, they are professionals and nearly every team dealt with the same issue…actually if anything one could argue the team it’s self had very little change compared to other teams…the top 6 players say for one, have played together  for a number of years so, as pros and considered to be high end players (Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Lindholm, Tachuck) aught to be able to play past a bad coach and things, they didn’t and couldn’t because there was something else going on and it would seem to Point to a possible leadership group issues as I had mentioned.

 

 

Strangey enough, once they moved Backlund to the 3M line, the team took off.

There was not a lot of change to personnell per se, but the lines all were compleyely changed.

Without a decent pre-season to get it right.

Bennett a RW after a great playoff.

Lindholm a C after 2 years on the wing, in effect the #1C.

Dube from 3rd line to top line.

Simon or Leivo as 2RW, even though Leivo was short of any time since the injury.

Mangiapane from 3M to 3RW.

A 3th line of spare parts, with Ryan there as the only one that could score.

 

It doesn't matter how professional they are, some things weither don't work or need far to long to work out the kinks.

Hall is a talented player but couldn't mesh in Buffalo.

Some things just don't work.

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Thinking about RW options, I read Rakell is available from Anaheim. 1 year left before UFA. $3.8mil cap hit. RW who was having a really great start to the season but got derailed by an injury. 28 years old. Could be a very good pickup that wouldn’t cost as much as Reinhart. Mind you, Reinhart would be a long term solution whereas Rakell could walk after next season. 

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On the latest 31 thoughts podcast, Friedman mentioned that he reached out to some of his sources and the report of a Tkachuk trade request were denied. He mentioned when he reached out about OEL, Jones and Dougie recently, teams didn’t like that he knew, but they didn’t deny it. He said this situation was different and it was essentially denied by anyone he talked to

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3 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

On the latest 31 thoughts podcast, Friedman mentioned that he reached out to some of his sources and the report of a Tkachuk trade request were denied. He mentioned when he reached out about OEL, Jones and Dougie recently, teams didn’t like that he knew, but they didn’t deny it. He said this situation was different and it was essentially denied by anyone he talked to

Regardless of who the writer or "insider" is I always take the stories with a grain of salt. Especially since I heard about the OEL issue over a week ago and the Dougie news was hardly groundbreaking.  Until the playoffs are over it has been and will be mostly speculation and rumor mongering, slow times get the reporters reaching for news.

 

Rumors and speculation have always been part of the system, I always wondered how much that sits in the players mind?

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