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So going against the grain of popularity here but who else other than Eichel would be a target for C? Do you keep Mony at #1 and try to improve the top 6 overall?  Or do you go top line heavy and try to land an elite C and RW at the potential sacrifice of the rest of the line up?

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40 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So going against the grain of popularity here but who else other than Eichel would be a target for C? Do you keep Mony at #1 and try to improve the top 6 overall?  Or do you go top line heavy and try to land an elite C and RW at the potential sacrifice of the rest of the line up?


I actually think in the end that is what is going to happen. They don’t find the value in the trades so they’re forced to keep everyone and then make a picks for players deal to upgrade on RW. 

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1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So going against the grain of popularity here but who else other than Eichel would be a target for C? Do you keep Mony at #1 and try to improve the top 6 overall?  Or do you go top line heavy and try to land an elite C and RW at the potential sacrifice of the rest of the line up?

The trade route, I don't know who else would be available so don't know where to go with that outside Eichel.  UFA would have the dream class of C's if it was still 2013 with Getzlaf, Krejci, and Stastny.  I'd consider Krejci for the right term and dollar, the other two I feel aren't top 6 anymore.  Then there is Nuge, I'd be down for pursuing him especially if they can find a taker for Monahan, the downside is I think he will be more sought after.

 

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4 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Regardless of who the writer or "insider" is I always take the stories with a grain of salt. Especially since I heard about the OEL issue over a week ago and the Dougie news was hardly groundbreaking.  Until the playoffs are over it has been and will be mostly speculation and rumor mongering, slow times get the reporters reaching for news.

 

Rumors and speculation have always been part of the system, I always wondered how much that sits in the players mind?

 

I have no issues with Hamilton having a gentleman's agreement with CAR to sign with CAR after the expansion draft, ultimately giving them an additional player protected.  I guess no less than 5 teams are doing this with their UFAs.

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3 hours ago, sak22 said:

The trade route, I don't know who else would be available so don't know where to go with that outside Eichel.  UFA would have the dream class of C's if it was still 2013 with Getzlaf, Krejci, and Stastny.  I'd consider Krejci for the right term and dollar, the other two I feel aren't top 6 anymore.  Then there is Nuge, I'd be down for pursuing him especially if they can find a taker for Monahan, the downside is I think he will be more sought after.

 

Considering all the teams whose season ended earlier than planned I'm think there may be more high end talent moving this summer than we expect.

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On 6/27/2021 at 10:54 AM, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So going against the grain of popularity here but who else other than Eichel would be a target for C? Do you keep Mony at #1 and try to improve the top 6 overall?  Or do you go top line heavy and try to land an elite C and RW at the potential sacrifice of the rest of the line up?

 

I think if the Flames want to try and compete than their path to do so is building a Montreal/Islanders type team. Deep and ability to roll 4 lines that all 4 lines can score. This not only fits with Sutter's style but it's far more realistic to do than trying to acquire the multiple elite/high end pieces that would be required to build the other way. That's why the Eichel idea is attractive becuase IMO you gain an elite C and an elite RW because you move LIndholm back to RW. Outside of that plan I don't think it's happening because I don't see another elite center on the market. 

 

I do think the Flames need to move on from Monahan because he is a poor fit under Sutter and i'm not optimistic that can be changed. Some "realistic" (i think anyway) targets would be:

 

Nick Schmaltz Arizona: There are plenty of rumors out there the Coyotes want to move on from Schmaltz including perhaps even buying him out (due to his age his buyout cost is actually fairly affordable but Friedman shot that down). His contract isn't good but he has a really good skill set and IMO a good fit for the Flames. He's good in transition and good at creating offense as well as on the PP. Isn't the greatest two way center but if the Flames having LIndholm and Backlund then having Schmaltz to provide more offense gives you balance. RS to boot. 

The biggest downside here is his contract. I actually don't think he's value is that bad, but he tends to get banged up a lot so there is some risk here. 

 

 

Jared McCann - Pittsburgh: Strong possession numbers and strong production numbers for his role. He is profiling as a player that could pop in the right circumstance, which he won't do playing behind Crosby/Malkin. 

The downsize is he's 1 year away from arb rights as an RFA so some risk there if he did have a good season. 

 

The other way to handle this is to roll the dice on some other options and players who may need a change of scenary. I think of names like Cody Glass, Gabe Villardi or Morgan Frost. 

 

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23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I think if the Flames want to try and compete than their path to do so is building a Montreal/Islanders type team. Deep and ability to roll 4 lines that all 4 lines can score. This not only fits with Sutter's style but it's far more realistic to do than trying to acquire the multiple elite/high end pieces that would be required to build the other way. That's why the Eichel idea is attractive becuase IMO you gain an elite C and an elite RW because you move LIndholm back to RW. Outside of that plan I don't think it's happening because I don't see another elite center on the market. 

 

I do think the Flames need to move on from Monahan because he is a poor fit under Sutter and i'm not optimistic that can be changed. Some "realistic" (i think anyway) targets would be:

 

Nick Schmaltz Arizona: There are plenty of rumors out there the Coyotes want to move on from Schmaltz including perhaps even buying him out (due to his age his buyout cost is actually fairly affordable but Friedman shot that down). His contract isn't good but he has a really good skill set and IMO a good fit for the Flames. He's good in transition and good at creating offense as well as on the PP. Isn't the greatest two way center but if the Flames having LIndholm and Backlund then having Schmaltz to provide more offense gives you balance. RS to boot. 

The biggest downside here is his contract. I actually don't think he's value is that bad, but he tends to get banged up a lot so there is some risk here. 

 

 

Jared McCann - Pittsburgh: Strong possession numbers and strong production numbers for his role. He is profiling as a player that could pop in the right circumstance, which he won't do playing behind Crosby/Malkin. 

The downsize is he's 1 year away from arb rights as an RFA so some risk there if he did have a good season. 

 

The other way to handle this is to roll the dice on some other options and players who may need a change of scenary. I think of names like Cody Glass, Gabe Villardi or Morgan Frost. 

 


that is  how envisioned the Flames when we had Iginla. I wanted to get a bunch of players that we would have paid 3M at the time and score by committees. 
 

I do want elite players, so I am torn because I also don’t want to pay a few players a huge portion of the cap and then create too many holes because they end up too expensive to fill on whatever salary is left over. You and others say it a lot, that all GMs have bad contracts on their resume, but it highlights getting it right with contracts when a couple of guys take up 1/4+ of the team’s cap. 
 

I would be all for going deep and speedy, score by committee.

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24 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Nick Schmaltz Arizona: There are plenty of rumors out there the Coyotes want to move on from Schmaltz including perhaps even buying him out (due to his age his buyout cost is actually fairly affordable but Friedman shot that down). His contract isn't good but he has a really good skill set and IMO a good fit for the Flames. He's good in transition and good at creating offense as well as on the PP. Isn't the greatest two way center but if the Flames having LIndholm and Backlund then having Schmaltz to provide more offense gives you balance. RS to boot. 

The biggest downside here is his contract. I actually don't think he's value is that bad, but he tends to get banged up a lot so there is some risk here. 

 

 

Jared McCann - Pittsburgh: Strong possession numbers and strong production numbers for his role. He is profiling as a player that could pop in the right circumstance, which he won't do playing behind Crosby/Malkin. 

The downsize is he's 1 year away from arb rights as an RFA so some risk there if he did have a good season. 

 

Schmaltz is a perfect fit for a buyout.  While the remaining term makes it a long buyout, there are only 2 bad years of dead cap (1.9 and 2.4m).  The next 3 years is actually cap relief, and the last 5 years only around $1m dead cap.  Only reason why I am focusing on that is a trade with retained salary is actually worse for them.  I can understand a team not wanting that, but ARI may not get a decent return without retaining salary.

 

McCann seems like a fit, but I worry about his faceoff numbers.  Not very impressive.  The only other concern I would have is 50% of his goals came on the PP.

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10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


that is  how envisioned the Flames when we had Iginla. I wanted to get a bunch of players that we would have paid 3M at the time and score by committees. 
 

I do want elite players, so I am torn because I also don’t want to pay a few players a huge portion of the cap and then create too many holes because they end up too expensive to fill on whatever salary is left over. You and others say it a lot, that all GMs have bad contracts on their resume, but it highlights getting it right with contracts when a couple of guys take up 1/4+ of the team’s cap. 
 

I would be all for going deep and speedy, score by committee.

 

I think we have been that way for a few years.

The problem was out depth dried up and we never replaced the ones that were gone.

Frolik and Janko and Bennett....

2-3rd liners on a lot of teams at their best.

Our 4th line consisted of one guy that could score a goal.

2nd line with no viable RW.

 

It would have been a tough choice, but would we have been better off with trading Gio for futures and sign:

Brodie for $5m

Tanev for $4.5m

Toffoli for $4.5m

 

Trade to get under the cap but not sign Nesterov and trade Rittich or Ryan or Bennett last summer?

We wasted $2m on Rittich being a backup that we didn't use.

We wasted $3.1m on Ryan being a 4C and Bennett being whatever they used him to do.

With smart trades we could have had 4 lines and 3 pairs.

 

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I would say that I a think Lindholm and Backlund are Sutter type centre’s. They are defensively responsible and can transition to support offence. Ryan also, though less in the o zone.

 

 I honestly think a big issue the past few years has been that Lindholm and Backlund both play in all situations including usually top 2 lines. They get over used having to defend on PK, on 5v5 they are to be more defensive minded and also chip in some (or a lot) of points. If the Flames could get a third line C that would not get much PP time, with slightly less 5v5 but could pick up more PK, that would give more rest for Backlund and Lindholm to be able to do more 5v5 and PP. It’s a reason I keep coming back to guys like Zacha though other options work too.

 

 

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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think we have been that way for a few years.

The problem was out depth dried up and we never replaced the ones that were gone.

Frolik and Janko and Bennett....

2-3rd liners on a lot of teams at their best.

Our 4th line consisted of one guy that could score a goal.

2nd line with no viable RW.

 

It would have been a tough choice, but would we have been better off with trading Gio for futures and sign:

Brodie for $5m

Tanev for $4.5m

Toffoli for $4.5m

 

Trade to get under the cap but not sign Nesterov and trade Rittich or Ryan or Bennett last summer?

We wasted $2m on Rittich being a backup that we didn't use.

We wasted $3.1m on Ryan being a 4C and Bennett being whatever they used him to do.

With smart trades we could have had 4 lines and 3 pairs.

 


this definitely makes sense!

 

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Schmaltz is an interesting target in a Monahan trade. Schmaltz is a good player, slightly overpaid, but could be a perennial 50-60pt guy in the right circumstance. 

 

Some other possible targets

 

Arvidsson- Like Monahan, he's been in the rumour mill a while. Depends what NSH does down the middle, if they play Duchene on the wing, there could be a fit for Monahan. Issue with Arvidsson has been durability, but when healthy he can score 30.

 

Laine- Most will say he's not a Sutter player, which is fair, but Darryl acknowledged this team needs to score more and that's what Laine does. Some talk that CBJ may be done with him already. Issue would be he's due at least 7.5 next year. 

 

Vegas- I think they'll look to upgrade at C this offseason. I'd ask for Tuch, he checks a lot of boxes for the Flames. I'd expect Vegas to look to move Smith though. 

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2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Schmaltz is an interesting target in a Monahan trade. Schmaltz is a good player, slightly overpaid, but could be a perennial 50-60pt guy in the right circumstance. 

 

Some other possible targets

 

Arvidsson- Like Monahan, he's been in the rumour mill a while. Depends what NSH does down the middle, if they play Duchene on the wing, there could be a fit for Monahan. Issue with Arvidsson has been durability, but when healthy he can score 30.

 

 

Laine - Most will say he's not a Sutter player, which is fair, but Darryl acknowledged this team needs to score more and that's what Laine does. Some talk that CBJ may be done with him already. Issue would be he's due at least 7.5 next year. 

 

Vegas- I think they'll look to upgrade at C this offseason. I'd ask for Tuch, he checks a lot of boxes for the Flames. I'd expect Vegas to look to move Smith though. 

So basically whats already here......Monahan.    Sure a bit younger and cheaper but I dont think he would make a difference.

 

Just no.  He'll get way too much for a one trick pony.

 

 

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6 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So basically whats already here......Monahan.    Sure a bit younger and cheaper but I dont think he would make a difference.

 

I agree with this.  Why trade Monahan for someone else who will produce... a Monahan?  Just keep the guy.

 

I like BT tried to move Monahan + Hanifin as a combo.  I think it's time to sell high on Hanifin as well.  He was given every opportunity this season to emerge as a #1 pairing guy and largely proved he's best suited for a 2nd pairing role.  He can't defend the best of the best but he can handle 2nd line talent coming his way.  It would be amazing from an asset management perspective if we can trade them both for Laine after failing to trade them for PLD... granted, we need to get Eichel first to secure Monahan's replacement before we move him.  Otherwise, we don't have Centers to play with Laine.

 

If Gaudreau for Eichel rumours are true (I'm sure they are not), then ending up with Tkachuk-Eichel as one combo and then Lindholm-Laine as the 2nd line is a great result.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I agree with this.  Why trade Monahan for someone else who will produce... a Monahan?  Just keep the guy.

 

I like BT tried to move Monahan + Hanifin as a combo.  I think it's time to sell high on Hanifin as well.  He was given every opportunity this season to emerge as a #1 pairing guy and largely proved he's best suited for a 2nd pairing role.  He can't defend the best of the best but he can handle 2nd line talent coming his way.  It would be amazing from an asset management perspective if we can trade them both for Laine after failing to trade them for PLD... granted, we need to get Eichel first to secure Monahan's replacement before we move him.  Otherwise, we don't have Centers to play with Laine.

 

If Gaudreau for Eichel rumours are true (I'm sure they are not), then ending up with Tkachuk-Eichel as one combo and then Lindholm-Laine as the 2nd line is a great result.  

 

 

I dont see it that way, as long as Gio is in the line up he's the de facto #1 LD.  That could change this year depending whos left after expansion.

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Happy to see Nuge re-signed in Edmonton, if only for the fact I think he’s weak sauce and I didn’t want there to be any chance we see him in a flames jersey. Love the term of 8 years. 

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3 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

Happy to see Nuge re-signed in Edmonton, if only for the fact I think he’s weak sauce and I didn’t want there to be any chance we see him in a flames jersey. Love the term of 8 years. 

 

It is relatively low. I guess the fact it's 8 years they're accounting for decline? 5.125/yr

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

It is relatively low. I guess the fact it's 8 years they're accounting for decline? 5.125/yr

The cap hit is lower than I expected, but I don’t see the guy as a winner, and it keeps Edmonton doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Plus, it apparently comes with a full NMC. Here’s hoping! 

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36 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

Happy to see Nuge re-signed in Edmonton, if only for the fact I think he’s weak sauce and I didn’t want there to be any chance we see him in a flames jersey. Love the term of 8 years. 

 

32 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

It is relatively low. I guess the fact it's 8 years they're accounting for decline? 5.125/yr

 

He's already started the decline.

He isn't a C (only career 44%).

He did not produce away from McD and Draisaitl.

 

I'm actually happy that he stays there.

If they could play their two top C's as C's, they might actually have some depth. 

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9 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dont see it that way, as long as Gio is in the line up he's the de facto #1 LD.  That could change this year depending whos left after expansion.

 

Hanifin was "given the opportunity" is all I'm saying.  He didn't step up every time.

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5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Hanifin was "given the opportunity" is all I'm saying.  He didn't step up every time.

My point was even if he did have a career year I still dont think he would be usurping the captain.

 

He did have an off year, I believe its was partly from splitting him and Ras up. Together they seemed to be progressing quite well but the powers that be saw different I guess.

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Adam Fox wins the Norris Trophy.  Wow... really?  Was he THAT good this season?  I knew he was good but wins Norris?  I thought Cale Makar would have it in the bag.

 

So in hindsight, Fox was a "throw-in" because we knew he wasn't going to sign with us.  Hamilton was supposed to be the best player in the trade and then the next two best was supposed to be Lindholm and Hanifin.  Fast forward 3 years and Adam Fox is the best player in the trade... wut?  23-year-old RHS RD Norris Dman.  Kudos for drafting him in the first place I guess... 

 

To Flames,

Lindholm

Hanifin

 

To Hurricanes,

Ferland

Hamilton

Fox

 

Let's be honest, if Hamilton didn't get injured last season then he would've won the Norris Trophy.  The Flames traded away two Norris RHS RD for a complementary Forward and a 2nd pair LD.

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Adam Fox wins the Norris Trophy.  Wow... really?  Was he THAT good this season?  I knew he was good but wins Norris?  I thought Cale Makar would have it in the bag.

 

So in hindsight, Fox was a "throw-in" because we knew he wasn't going to sign with us.  Hamilton was supposed to be the best player in the trade and then the next two best was supposed to be Lindholm and Hanifin.  Fast forward 3 years and Adam Fox is the best player in the trade... wut?  23-year-old RHS RD Norris Dman.  Kudos for drafting him in the first place I guess... 

 

To Flames,

Lindholm

Hanifin

 

To Hurricanes,

Ferland

Hamilton

Fox

 

Let's be honest, if Hamilton didn't get injured last season then he would've won the Norris Trophy.  The Flames traded away two Norris RHS RD for a complementary Forward and a 2nd pair LD.

 

 

 

 

 

Hard to argue this point😞
 

though I do wonder why Fox never wanted to sign here…I don’t recall if a reason was ever made public…unfortunately the Fox loss is not something that can be blamed on Mgt…or is it? Did they treat him poorly maybe cause he was a lower round pick?

 

still, that loss is not something (unless Mgt was the reason he wouldn’t sign here) that I blame mgt for/on.

 

as for Hamilton, I was never much of a fan and don’t view him as high as others but the same can be said for Hanifin…the difference now is, I see Hanifin as a younger and possibly slightly better version of Hamilton so I’m essence Hanifin was an age upgrade on Hamilton 

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On 6/27/2021 at 2:36 PM, robrob74 said:


I actually think in the end that is what is going to happen. They don’t find the value in the trades so they’re forced to keep everyone and then make a picks for players deal to upgrade on RW. 

I agree and it may actually be all that’s needed…we’ll sort of, the do need to move and replace/upgrade the leadership culture:

 

Gio

Lucic

Backlund

and all the RW side

 

then maybe moving Lindholm to Ctr may make sense and work 

 

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