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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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42 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Why is everyone thinking about all theses old players…be smart and think under 30 otherwise we may as well protect Gio…

 

there are plenty of better options around and maybe we can shed some dead weight too, shed, NOT take on more of it.

 

I really hope BT is not considering any of these antique players everyone is suggesting.

 

 

 

Look, all of this is just options if you lose Gio.  Are there others available that are younger?

UFA - some options, but will cost you a lot more $$.

Trades - best route for quality players, but expensive to get that quality.

 

We are missing offense.

Hamilton gets you the best available.

Can't afford that.

Montour and Oleksiak are not the answers for that.

Nick Leddy?

Reported to be available, but expensive actual $$.

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3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Everyone misses and everyone gets lucky, it is what it is you judge someone's whole body of work instead of a pick by pick basis.  Gaudreau was a great pick, nobody is praising Feaster.  Yzerman made a great pick with Point and Cirelli, but obviously he felt in both cases 3 guys were better and in both cases was wrong.  Yzerman has been a great GM but I don't think he pisses gold, man has got lucky at times, Drouin wasn't a good pick for #3, turned him into a great asset in Sergachev.  The team is still paying Lecavalier for another 7 years he just caught a break with the compliance buyouts, not every GM has had that luxury.  I'm not going to debate who is better because there is no debate, but in drafting alone there is only 1 player that BT could've had that Yzerman took that I think would make a significant difference to this team and thats Point.  It's not like we'd be better with Mathieu Joseph instead of Andrew Mangiapane.

With Yzerman, I think it's what happens after the draft. You don't make the team because the team needs(Mony, Bennett).

You go for seasoning and you get coached before the show.

He sure put Drouin in his place. Those are hard calls but steadfast.

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47 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

With Yzerman, I think it's what happens after the draft. You don't make the team because the team needs(Mony, Bennett).

You go for seasoning and you get coached before the show.

He sure put Drouin in his place. Those are hard calls but steadfast.


while our GM was steadfast and let our version of Drouin rot until everyone thought he was as worthless. And then when he gets a little for him we now praise BT like he’s a genius. We hold onto all of our players just a little too long and then get a bit for them. 
 

got lucky in the Hamilton deal. 

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27 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


while our GM was steadfast and let our version of Drouin rot until everyone thought he was as worthless. And then when he gets a little for him we now praise BT like he’s a genius. We hold onto all of our players just a little too long and then get a bit for them. 
 

got lucky in the Hamilton deal. 

Who's calling him a genius, saying its a good move because nobody expected to get one 2nd let alone a 2nd round prospect isn't calling him a genius, majority of people didn't expect Bennett to take off in Florida but 20 games is still a small sample size.    Treliving didn't decide where Bennett played in the lineup, he didn't completely ruin him on his own yet is taking all the blame, he does get some but coaching needs some and the player does as well.  People are all over the map with Bennett.  He needed to play in a top 6 role even if he wasn't playing good and others were because thats development (not my take), he needs to go to the AHL to develop, yet even looking at Tampa it's not like they let their top players play seasons in the A, Stamkos and Hedman never played there, Point played 9 games, Kucherov played 17, Drouin played 19, Vasi had less than 30 starts before he was called up.  But lets not pretend Drouin's handling let him become the player he was expected to, because he hasn't and quite frankly Jones, Lindholm and Monahan were all better picks.  

 

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40 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


while our GM was steadfast and let our version of Drouin rot until everyone thought he was as worthless. And then when he gets a little for him we now praise BT like he’s a genius. We hold onto all of our players just a little too long and then get a bit for them. 
 

got lucky in the Hamilton deal. 

I really admire Yzerman because he knows how to detach in favour of business. He's never afraid to deal, no matter whom. There are a ton of great players so he doesn't seem to get hung up on dealing anyone that doesn't follow  his vision. He's still a great leader.

Detroit and Calgary would be great trade partners I think. Pieces like Backlund and Gio have gotten stale but would be good for Detroit. Detroit has a good prospect pool, it seems like a decent bridge between teams to me.

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4 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Who's calling him a genius, saying its a good move because nobody expected to get one 2nd let alone a 2nd round prospect isn't calling him a genius, majority of people didn't expect Bennett to take off in Florida but 20 games is still a small sample size.    Treliving didn't decide where Bennett played in the lineup, he didn't completely ruin him on his own yet is taking all the blame, he does get some but coaching needs some and the player does as well.  People are all over the map with Bennett.  He needed to play in a top 6 role even if he wasn't playing good and others were because thats development (not my take), he needs to go to the AHL to develop, yet even looking at Tampa it's not like they let their top players play seasons in the A, Stamkos and Hedman never played there, Point played 9 games, Kucherov played 17, Drouin played 19, Vasi had less than 30 starts before he was called up.  But lets not pretend Drouin's handling let him become the player he was expected to, because he hasn't and quite frankly Jones, Lindholm and Monahan were all better picks.  

 

Treliving handled Bennett very well I thought. I'm not ragging him at all. Calgary has always had a propensity for waiting until the last gasp to move good players. That predates BT. When the owners love players, your hands are tied.

That's perhaps where the problem lies.

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:


while our GM was steadfast and let our version of Drouin rot until everyone thought he was as worthless. And then when he gets a little for him we now praise BT like he’s a genius. We hold onto all of our players just a little too long and then get a bit for them. 
 

got lucky in the Hamilton deal. 


I think Yzerman got lucky in the Drouin deal too. Lucky in that Drouin requested a trade and lucky that Drouin was French Canadian which led to have one team willing to overpay. Not to mention Drouin answered the bell when Yzerman challenged him and Bennett didn’t exactly do the same here. scenarios are not really the same. 
 

If Treliving was getting offers like Sergachev Bennett would have been gone years ago. 

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Treliving handled Bennett very well I thought. I'm not ragging him at all. Calgary has always had a propensity for waiting until the last gasp to move good players. That predates BT. When the owners love players, your hands are tied.

That's perhaps where the problem lies.

 

We have had a few guys go stale here, no doubt.

Gio is the most recent one that bothers me.

Less stale, more hanging on too long.

Monahan, Gaudreau and Tkachuk is not a question of going stale, just whether you can get the value to replace them.

Backlund is the one that worries me the most.

He hasn't tailed off, so we will probably keep him until he's done.

 

 

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4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Protecting Gio, you lose Tanev, our best defender last season. 

I just think this team is in either go for it now mode, or sell the farm. 

 

I think Palmieri and Armia might be the only two I'd be willing to go after...  I just don't see BT's marching orders being rebuild or retool. It's win now. 

Regardless They are far too old, same with Sutter, a fools errand even considering them…this team can still be retooled or built or what ever term

yohnwant to use and not take on a bunch of over the hill roster fillers, we have a enough of those already, all BT needs to to is just make smart trades for younger players, sure they can be NHL now, though they do cost more to get but, if done right your could land a few guys under 25 and get a lot more out of them than 30+ player past their prime.

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https://www.foreverblueshirts.com/sabres-lower-asking-price-on-jack-eichel-does-that-move-the-needle-for-the-rangers/

 

So sounds like BUF is lowering the ask for Eichel, expectedly.  Rumour is they wanted four first round picks or equivalent... But price is dropping.

 

I mean, I still think Tkachuk + Zary + 12th overall gets it done.

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For some weird reason, we are listed as being a frontrunner for Hyman, along with EDM and VAN.

I don't like bidding wars, and would hate to pay what he is supposedly looking for (>$5m over 7 years).

I hope we are driving up the cost for either of those teams to pay $6m x 7 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the player.  Not at that money for that long.

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3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Look, all of this is just options if you lose Gio.  Are there others available that are younger?

UFA - some options, but will cost you a lot more $$.

Trades - best route for quality players, but expensive to get that quality.

 

We are missing offense.

Hamilton gets you the best available.

Can't afford that.

Montour and Oleksiak are not the answers for that.

Nick Leddy?

Reported to be available, but expensive actual $$.

Yes it’s expensive but if you want quality you have to pay…kinda like a car you may want a BMW and sure you can buy a 15 year old one but it’s a day by day thing at that age on how long it’s gonna last and the maintenance is gonna be fore sure high 

 

Or 

 

be smart and buy something new  like a civic which sure may cost 10k more but it’s under warranty and is new so it’s got lots of life in it and it’s gonna not be in the shop nearly as much…

 

We keep the get the old BMW because it’s a BMW mind set then this team will continue to fail, that’s the mindset that has got Cgy where we are…We keep going after budget value with a fancy logo..or in hockey player terms old players who have name recognition for their past not their current value.

 

look at TB they are way over the cap but they won, why cause they didn’t buy budge they bought new (well mostly) meaning internal development and spending money on the right guys…all thes Sutter, Praise, Pallmari (sorry SP?) guys are all budget options and things Cgy has done far too often in the past (Neil, Lucic sort of, Brewer, Jokinen (Sp?)) any way budget players at best…though I will admit Jokinen (sp?) was a bit better but if memory serves he was closing in on 30 when we got him something like 28/29 ish and he degraded fast after that…over 30 players should never be a thought process unless your a lock for the post season, then you add a vet as needed for the final push…Cgy is no where near that we are on the other end needing youth to rejuvenate this team mostly cause our core is getting old, in particular our leader group.

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5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

For some weird reason, we are listed as being a frontrunner for Hyman, along with EDM and VAN.

I don't like bidding wars, and would hate to pay what he is supposedly looking for (>$5m over 7 years).

I hope we are driving up the cost for either of those teams to pay $6m x 7 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the player.  Not at that money for that long.

 

Same.  I like what Hyman brings... But not at $6-mil-per.  We have to avoid getting him at all cost.  I hope this is to drive the price up on Van and Edm.  Because EDM screwed us on Markstrom last season.. this could be BT's payback... Not that Holland can't rekt himself but still.

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3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

https://www.foreverblueshirts.com/sabres-lower-asking-price-on-jack-eichel-does-that-move-the-needle-for-the-rangers/

 

So sounds like BUF is lowering the ask for Eichel, expectedly.  Rumour is they wanted four first round picks or equivalent... But price is dropping.

 

I mean, I still think Tkachuk + Zary + 12th overall gets it done.

And I still think that’s foolish, Eichel’s injury is not worth Zary let alone Tkacuck or our 12th….nope hard Hash Rate pass on this guy…I’d maybe consider the 12th and Another prospect and roster player like Backlund or Dube or even Manji…even Gaudreau if they were to add Reinhart as kinda an insurance incase Eichel’s injury is  and very well could be career ending, the asking price and the price they get for Eichel won’t be much more than a 1st because of it…Than and his huge contract, which if Buf takes back another bad contract + a 1st round and a prospect (definitely not Zary, any of our other prospect but not Zary he’s gonna be a lot better than the other prospects hands down)..anyway we need to look at better deals like Reinhart, even Rakel in Anh etc…

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1 minute ago, MP5029 said:

And I still think that’s foolish, Eichel’s injury is not worth Zary let alone Tkacuck or our 12th….nope hard Hash Rate pass on this guy…I’d maybe consider the 12th and Another prospect and roster player like Backlund or Dube or even Manji…even Gaudreau if they were to add Reinhart as kinda an insurance incase Eichel’s injury is  and very well could be career ending, the asking price and the price they get for Eichel won’t be much more than a 1st because of it…Than and his huge contract, which if Buf takes back another bad contract + a 1st round and a prospect (definitely not Zary, any of our other prospect but not Zary he’s gonna be a lot better than the other prospects hands down)..anyway we need to look at better deals like Reinhart, even Rakel in Anh etc…

 

Those guys are not #1 Centers.  We need a #1 Center badly and we should take a chance.  If we are targeting Reinhart or Rakell then just keep what we have.

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8 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Yes it’s expensive but if you want quality you have to pay…kinda like a car you may want a BMW and sure you can buy a 15 year old one but it’s a day by day thing at that age on how long it’s gonna last and the maintenance is gonna be fore sure high 

 

Or 

 

be smart and buy something new  like a civic which sure may cost 10k more but it’s under warranty and is new so it’s got lots of life in it and it’s gonna not be in the shop nearly as much…

 

We keep the get the old BMW because it’s a BMW mind set then this team will continue to fail, that’s the mindset that has got Cgy where we are…We keep going after budget value with a fancy logo..or in hockey player terms old players who have name recognition for their past not their current value.

 

look at TB they are way over the cap but they won, why cause they didn’t buy budge they bought new (well mostly) meaning internal development and spending money on the right guys…all thes Sutter, Praise, Pallmari (sorry SP?) guys are all budget options and things Cgy has done far too often in the past (Neil, Lucic sort of, Brewer, Jokinen (Sp?)) any way budget players at best…though I will admit Jokinen (sp?) was a bit better but if memory serves he was closing in on 30 when we got him something like 28/29 ish and he degraded fast after that…over 30 players should never be a thought process unless your a lock for the post season, then you add a vet as needed for the final push…Cgy is no where near that we are on the other end needing youth to rejuvenate this team mostly cause our core is getting old, in particular our leader group.

 

A contender can get guys cheaper.

Maroon wanted $4m, but signed there for peanuts.

Tampa used picks to get prices cheap enough for Savard and Goodrow and Coleman.

But let's look at the D depth they had.

Sergachev and Cernak are the only guys under 30.

Hedman peaked at 29-30, MacDonough is still providing quality, Rutta 30, Savard 30, etc.

 

A lot of used BMW's there.

One they bought brand new.

Others they traded favors for.

 

If you can't get quality in FA, you can draft or trade for.

You don't always get it right the first time.

Still need to compete, right?

And smart GM's pick up players they can later turn into a draft pick.

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28 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

A contender can get guys cheaper.

Maroon wanted $4m, but signed there for peanuts.

Tampa used picks to get prices cheap enough for Savard and Goodrow and Coleman.

But let's look at the D depth they had.

Sergachev and Cernak are the only guys under 30.

Hedman peaked at 29-30, MacDonough is still providing quality, Rutta 30, Savard 30, etc.

 

A lot of used BMW's there.

One they bought brand new.

Others they traded favors for.

 

If you can't get quality in FA, you can draft or trade for.

You don't always get it right the first time.

Still need to compete, right?

And smart GM's pick up players they can later turn into a draft pick.

I agree but none of those guys will fetch much of anything now…

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35 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Those guys are not #1 Centers.  We need a #1 Center badly and we should take a chance.  If we are targeting Reinhart or Rakell then just keep what we have.

I’d have to disagree, reinhart played Ctr most of last year..and Eichel’s not worth that risk..if he were 5x5 mmm ok but 10 x what 3 or 4 years remaining that’s a massive all in risk and your also trading away most of the future for him to play with…gotta ice a team not just Eichel 

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I would do Hyman for 5.5 if it meant Backlund for prospects/picks. I'd also do Eichel for Tkachuk, Zary and 12oa.

Gio out, it's doable.

Eichel Mony Hyman down the middle at the going rate, still have Gaudreau, Lindholm. Mangiapane, Dube, prospects have a solid fwd group to latch on to.

I don't hate the idea.

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13 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

High 2nd for a player that would've been a slam dunk choice for Seattle, a win for Colorado.

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3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

High 2nd for a player that would've been a slam dunk choice for Seattle, a win for Colorado.

Yup. Had to be done. Looks like the GMs learned that lesson already.

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2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I would do Hyman for 5.5 if it meant Backlund for prospects/picks. I'd also do Eichel for Tkachuk, Zary and 12oa.

Gio out, it's doable.

Eichel Mony Hyman down the middle at the going rate, still have Gaudreau, Lindholm. Mangiapane, Dube, prospects have a solid fwd group to latch on to.

I don't hate the idea.

 

If Hyman could play C, replacing Backlund with him would give us a player that does not give up.

He plays like Mangiapane, just a bigger version.

The issue I see is that he's supposedly being offered that times 8 years in TO.

 

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7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If Hyman could play C, replacing Backlund with him would give us a player that does not give up.

He plays like Mangiapane, just a bigger version.

The issue I see is that he's supposedly being offered that times 8 years in TO.

 

 

Hyman doesn't have half the hands of Mangiapane.  He's a hard working grinder who is willing to go into the corners and he enjoyed a stats boost from Matthews.  He's like Pascal Dupuis for Crosby.  If Hyman comes here and we don't have Eichel by then, man we are going to regret signing him.

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