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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I actually think Buffalo is probably asking for Tkachuk and Mangiapane as the two NHL pieces. They're asking for the moon for their franchise player

 

I would do Tkachuk + Mangiapane if that's all it took.  No additional prospects and picks.

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52 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I would do Tkachuk + Mangiapane if that's all it took.  No additional prospects and picks.

Well, you are talking about about 40-50 goals per season given up for an somewhat elite C.

Somehow that seems a bit rich.

Maybe I'm a bit less impressed with Eichel than say Matthews, who I would fo that deal in a heartbeat.

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14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Well, you are talking about about 40-50 goals per season given up for an somewhat elite C.

Somehow that seems a bit rich.

Maybe I'm a bit less impressed with Eichel than say Matthews, who I would fo that deal in a heartbeat.

 

You're talking about potentially $9-mil-per on a long term deal for Tkachuk's next contract.  And Mange?  Likely $5-mil-per for 4-years or so.

 

Can Eichel's $10-mil plus someone else making $4-mil make up the goal difference?  I think so.  We still have Gaudreau on LW.  Dube can play LW.  Pelletier is about a year away from NHL ready.  We can make up the goal difference.  We cannot find another top 10 Center unless we tank for one.

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9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

You're talking about potentially $9-mil-per on a long term deal for Tkachuk's next contract.  And Mange?  Likely $5-mil-per for 4-years or so.

 

Can Eichel's $10-mil plus someone else making $4-mil make up the goal difference?  I think so.  We still have Gaudreau on LW.  Dube can play LW.  Pelletier is about a year away from NHL ready.  We can make up the goal difference.  We cannot find another top 10 Center unless we tank for one.

 

I don't have a problem with Eichel's salary, but what happens in 5 years.

Ignoring that, I would expect Tkachuk somewhere around $8m x 8 and Mangiapane like $4.5m x 6.

Honestly, I don't know what Eichel would do for this club over having those two players we have.

Does he turn Gaudreau into a 100 point player?

 

Anyway, I would suggest that Tkachuk + Mangiapane is a non-starter for BT.

Tkachuk + Zary + 1st is a good offer, and I doubt anyone tops that in quality of a NHL player.

 

Hey, for a laugh, have you noticed that Gio is not on the side banners of this site?  Valimaki and Mangiapane are there.  Hmmmm.

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13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I would do Tkachuk + Mangiapane if that's all it took.  No additional prospects and picks.


you have an 75-85 point player and a 85-100 point player. 
 

one is a coveted #1C, so you pay for that.

 

the other can be an ultimate pest in the right situation and helps drive play through hockey IQ. 
 

I think the Tkachuk and Mang should do it. You make up the difference through the points, 

 

what if we did Tkachuk and Monahan? Too much salary, but it gives them a C in return for the now. Nothing else. 
Top9 pairs: 

Gaudreau, Eichel, 
Mangiapane, Lindholm

Lucic, Backlund,

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48 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


you have an 75-85 point player and a 85-100 point player. 
 

one is a coveted #1C, so you pay for that.

 

the other can be an ultimate pest in the right situation and helps drive play through hockey IQ. 
 

I think the Tkachuk and Mang should do it. You make up the difference through the points, 

 

what if we did Tkachuk and Monahan? Too much salary, but it gives them a C in return for the now. Nothing else. 
Top9 pairs: 

Gaudreau, Eichel, 
Mangiapane, Lindholm

Lucic, Backlund,

 

For me, it's not just the loss of two players able to put up 50 goals in total, but the hole it leaves behind.

Two of our best wingers, one a 5v5 scorer.

Tkachuk + Mangiapane leaves us short a RW and LW or two LW.

We gain a C, that pushes Lindy to RW; still down a LW.

Tkachuk + Monahan leaves us short a LW + C.

Still down a RW

 

Sure, in both trades, we gain 2-3m in cap.

Not enough to replace the loss in scoring.

 

If we are still in the race, then I would not go above Tkachuk + Zary + 1st.  That's a great deal for each side.

Maybe somebody comes in higher, but I don't see them besting Tkachuk as a player going the other way.

Even that is a bit hard to take; losing the 1st rounder this year that is. 

If we consider Dube to be worth >= a 1st, then Tkachuk + 1st is an overpay too isn't it?  (that's for Peeps)

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:


you have an 75-85 point player and a 85-100 point player. 
 

one is a coveted #1C, so you pay for that.

 

the other can be an ultimate pest in the right situation and helps drive play through hockey IQ. 
 

I think the Tkachuk and Mang should do it. You make up the difference through the points, 

 

what if we did Tkachuk and Monahan? Too much salary, but it gives them a C in return for the now. Nothing else. 
Top9 pairs: 

Gaudreau, Eichel, 
Mangiapane, Lindholm

Lucic, Backlund,

As of now Eichel is no more a 85 - 100 pt player than Monahan.  I still dont get the love-in for Eichel so far he's basically Monahan with a higher cap hit when you factor in pts, injury history and overall linemate caliber.

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6 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

As of now Eichel is no more a 85 - 100 pt player than Monahan.  I still dont get the love-in for Eichel so far he's basically Monahan with a higher cap hit when you factor in pts, injury history and overall linemate caliber.

 

I think the biggest difference is that Eichel is more able to drive a line than Monahan.

Is that difference enough to warrant the cost increase?

If we lose just Tkachuk, we are still have a solid top 6.

Gaudreau-Eichel-Lindholm

Mangiapane-Monahan-Hyman

 

or 

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Monahan-Hyman

 

That first group could include 3 players at a p/gp rate, and 3 players in the 20 goal range each.

2nd group would be closer to two sets of 3x20 goal scorers.

Is the extra cost for next year for Eichel vs contract extension for Tkachuk worth that?  

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15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the biggest difference is that Eichel is more able to drive a line than Monahan.

Is that difference enough to warrant the cost increase?

If we lose just Tkachuk, we are still have a solid top 6.

Gaudreau-Eichel-Lindholm

Mangiapane-Monahan-Hyman

 

or 

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Monahan-Hyman

 

That first group could include 3 players at a p/gp rate, and 3 players in the 20 goal range each.

2nd group would be closer to two sets of 3x20 goal scorers.

Is the extra cost for next year for Eichel vs contract extension for Tkachuk worth that?  

 

30 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

As of now Eichel is no more a 85 - 100 pt player than Monahan.  I still dont get the love-in for Eichel so far he's basically Monahan with a higher cap hit when you factor in pts, injury history and overall linemate caliber.

 

I agree with both... I think the cost is too high for the benefits. It will possibly take 2-3 years to get the players back and it doesn't seem like there are options to fill the holes, or the holes will cost even more to fill. Filling with UFA will be too costly with a guy making 10m. 

 

I just hope that BT doesn't use too much of the cap on high priced players, meaning he wastes it on an over priced Hyman or a player that will be a million over their worth because youre bidding against other GMs in free agency... I would prefer weaponize it and say they trade us a contract player and a pick to take on a player a team wants to trade to create cap space. But it has to be a smart deal...

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31 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I agree with both... I think the cost is too high for the benefits. It will possibly take 2-3 years to get the players back and it doesn't seem like there are options to fill the holes, or the holes will cost even more to fill. Filling with UFA will be too costly with a guy making 10m. 

 

I just hope that BT doesn't use too much of the cap on high priced players, meaning he wastes it on an over priced Hyman or a player that will be a million over their worth because youre bidding against other GMs in free agency... I would prefer weaponize it and say they trade us a contract player and a pick to take on a player a team wants to trade to create cap space. But it has to be a smart deal...

 

I admit I am a little worried about UFA's.  We haven't had a lot of luck over the years; some goods ones and some nightmares.

For the most part, I think trades have been well executed; give up quality to get it.

Hyman makes sense because he fills a void we have for that type of player.

Too many passengers right now.

Some see him as a 15g guy tops, while I tend to see a 50 point player.

Much like Mangiapane, he goes to the net.

I think he could easily be worth $5m over at least 5 years.

But, I would not be upset if he went elsewhere.

 

Like you, I am hoping some of the guys exposed don't get taken and could be an option for us.

Eberle.  There, I said it.

31 years old, with numbers equal to Hyman.

Would he be cheap?

Tarasenko.  STL wants him gone and I can see him being taken or left alone.

Should not cost a top player to get.

 

There are a world of players that make as much or more sense than Hyman.

If you are using $5m+ in cap, you need to consider the cost of trade vs the value of the asset.

A UFA is just salary, but a trade can reduce the cost and allow you to change the dynamics of the team.

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12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I admit I am a little worried about UFA's.  We haven't had a lot of luck over the years; some goods ones and some nightmares.

For the most part, I think trades have been well executed; give up quality to get it.

Hyman makes sense because he fills a void we have for that type of player.

Too many passengers right now.

Some see him as a 15g guy tops, while I tend to see a 50 point player.

Much like Mangiapane, he goes to the net.

I think he could easily be worth $5m over at least 5 years.

But, I would not be upset if he went elsewhere.

 

Like you, I am hoping some of the guys exposed don't get taken and could be an option for us.

Eberle.  There, I said it.

31 years old, with numbers equal to Hyman.

Would he be cheap?

Tarasenko.  STL wants him gone and I can see him being taken or left alone.

Should not cost a top player to get.

 

There are a world of players that make as much or more sense than Hyman.

If you are using $5m+ in cap, you need to consider the cost of trade vs the value of the asset.

A UFA is just salary, but a trade can reduce the cost and allow you to change the dynamics of the team.

 

 

yUp, 

 

But I am thinking of cap strapped teams that we can hold ransom the cap space to pick up a player that is good but they need to make room for other players that they need to sign, kind of like the Nate Schmidt deal the Canucks made. Could have been a good deal, but it didn't work out... Are there players BT can get by trading for cheap so that it opens up cap space for the other team?

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14 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

yUp, 

 

But I am thinking of cap strapped teams that we can hold ransom the cap space to pick up a player that is good but they need to make room for other players that they need to sign, kind of like the Nate Schmidt deal the Canucks made. Could have been a good deal, but it didn't work out... Are there players BT can get by trading for cheap so that it opens up cap space for the other team?

 

I don't think dropping Gio's cap hit allows us to weaponize our cap.

There are a ton of teams with more cap than us now and assuming Gio's comes off.

Some teams do it really badly, like VAN that gave up a 1st for JT.  

They had TBL over a barrel and paid to help them out.

I don't think we are in the best position to do it.

 

Saying that, signing players on day 1 of UFA is dangerous and deals come later.

Teams that overspent the cap.

 

Depending on how team view the entry draft, we could pick up a really good player at the draft.

I less expect us sell for picks than sell a pick.

 

 

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For me Olesiak, Zabrov and or savard for D,hell two of the 3 would be awesome. I am ok with Hyman would also be fine with Danault but have to be reasonable contracts. As a trade i would look at Reinhart over Eichel just think it would be a better fit. Also a larger onr would be landeskog. 

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Oddly, Brock Boeser is in trade rumours again. Not sure what’s going on over there in Van, but they need cap space. Great player, not sure what the ask is, but we could afford a prospects for player trade if Gio gets taken.

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11 hours ago, tmac70 said:

For me Olesiak, Zabrov and or savard for D,hell two of the 3 would be awesome. I am ok with Hyman would also be fine with Danault but have to be reasonable contracts. As a trade i would look at Reinhart over Eichel just think it would be a better fit. Also a larger onr would be landeskog. 

 

It's been reported the Kraken are going to sign Oleksiak - they've already signed Larson from the Oil. 

 

10 hours ago, ABC923 said:

Oddly, Brock Boeser is in trade rumours again. Not sure what’s going on over there in Van, but they need cap space. Great player, not sure what the ask is, but we could afford a prospects for player trade if Gio gets taken.

 

I read up on Boeser and the injury he sustained being hit into the open boards really messed him up. He says he's finally feeling 100% but apparently he's had to adjust the way he shoots and releases the puck. To me, he's sounding like damaged goods and not a player who is sustainable. While we can all expect the Van GM to make stupid decisions, this may be the one good one he makes per year. 

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2 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

It's been reported the Kraken are going to sign Oleksiak - they've already signed Larson from the Oil. 

 

 

I read up on Boeser and the injury he sustained being hit into the open boards really messed him up. He says he's finally feeling 100% but apparently he's had to adjust the way he shoots and releases the puck. To me, he's sounding like damaged goods and not a player who is sustainable. While we can all expect the Van GM to make stupid decisions, this may be the one good one he makes per year. 

 

I don't think they go for Zadorov, since Oleksiak and Larsson do what he does.

Boesser, I heard, was simply rumors started because the GM was receiving calls about him not that he was being shopped.

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An article out of Chicago:

"Bowman should not bring back Zadorov on a long-term deal. Both his WAR and SPAR were zero this season. That means he is a “replacement-level” player. So, by these metrics, if you replaced him with your average AHL call-up or free agent, there would be no change in team wins or overall points."

https://thehockeywriters.com/blackhawks-2020-21-player-grades-nikita-zadorov/

 

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25 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

An article out of Chicago:

"Bowman should not bring back Zadorov on a long-term deal. Both his WAR and SPAR were zero this season. That means he is a “replacement-level” player. So, by these metrics, if you replaced him with your average AHL call-up or free agent, there would be no change in team wins or overall points."

https://thehockeywriters.com/blackhawks-2020-21-player-grades-nikita-zadorov/

 

I dont think you bring a player like Zadorov to be a game changer.  The article seems to state that he tends to put himself out of position to make the big hit but for the last 4 seasons including one on a mediocre Hawks team his was never in the minuses. From watching a few youtube vids it seems hes very conscious of his size and almost lets up before a big hit rather than going full Tom Wilson on a smaller player.

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15 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dont think you bring a player like Zadorov to be a game changer.  The article seems to state that he tends to put himself out of position to make the big hit but for the last 4 seasons including one on a mediocre Hawks team his was never in the minuses. From watching a few youtube vids it seems hes very conscious of his size and almost lets up before a big hit rather than going full Tom Wilson on a smaller player.

 

Maybe he was bad on a bad Hawks team, but with a good puckmover, he would help us.

We have been too soft opn forwards.

Brodie was only ever able to stick check.

Ras is okay, but too small for a lot of situations.

Mackey may be a good mix, but still too raw.

Valimaki can hit but maybe shouldn't.

Hanifin lost his shoulder due to a big hit.

Tanev is our best shutdown guy.

That is it.

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Oleksiak is gone as well…. Zadorov wasn’t my first choice, but man does that chicago article make me rethink myself. 
 

need to get us a big D that can play. 

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