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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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This GIO thing is out of hand, There was nothing BT could have done, if anything he saved us from further disaster of keeping a player based on feelings than better business practices. I pressume the decision was hard, welcome to business. Gio is gone wish him well was what this organization should strive to be chapter closed. With the knpwledge of the fact this was going to happen, BT now has a void to fill. We need a top dman and the best UFA out there you sent packing because he supposedly didnt fit the room.

 

We have plenty of cap space and consider Pitllick a cheaper, larger version of Derek Ryan. There are some big name UFA's hitting the market at forwards and soem trades that could happen. For me Taresenko is not a bad option on try me contract, we need some more punch in the top 6. Reinhart would be a good trade option and I still think Landeskog would be a good fit here as well. Defense we need a puck moving dman that can create some offense, thats going to be the hard one. We also require a back up tender.  You have 18.6 Million in cap space, with really an allowance of 16. 2 million to spend.  Whos coming in, what we have is not good enough to compete especially our defense at present. 

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3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Dare to dream Seth Jones?

 

I actually like Gudas.

Kinda mean version of Gio.

Hehe, there is no similar qualities, but he's a mean one Mr. Grinch.

RHS though.

 

I hear we are in on Dvorak, which makes sense.

Not sure what we have to trade for him though.

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Don't mind the Pitlick deal at all. I was really hoping they could keep both 3rd's in 21 and 22 and they did.

 

I'll tell ya what, I'd rather have Pitlick for 1yr at 1.75 than Goodrow for 6 at 3.6.. Pitlick has also played less games and has a slightly higher pt/g than Goodrow. 

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I have given BT his due for is work at the draft table and for some trades.  But his coach selection has been poor and the performance of the team has been poor during his tenure.  There have been 2 expansion drafts and by my take he has performed poorly on both.  Of his own words today, he has been working on this one since the last one so that provides plenty of time to make sure you don’t lose the face and heart of the Franchise for nothing.  If good business had been conducted the City would not be freaking out and the team would have won more than a couple of playoff rounds since his installation.  Having said this the buck doesn’t stop with him it stops with the owners and I suspect they are getting impatient as well.

 

Gio has always been the fittest flame and I will bet he is good for another three seasons, he is a complete class act and that is why he has gone with such grace.

 

  We once had a great defensive pairing in Gio and Brodie, now they are gone with nothing in return.  One of our best playoff performers is also gone and looking pretty good elsewhere although it’s early.  Players are making demands via agents and rumours abound about those who are good wanting out.  Three of the biggest fan favourites in Gio, Benny and Rittich are gone in this the entertainment business.   All I’m saying is It’s my view that he needs to pull off something big to help the team now or his position will be in question.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he would agree.  

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2 minutes ago, 89Again said:

I have given BT his due for is work at the draft table and for some trades.  But his coach selection has been poor and the performance of the team has been poor during his tenure.  There have been 2 expansion drafts and by my take he has performed poorly on both.  Of his own words today, he has been working on this one since the last one so that provides plenty of time to make sure you don’t lose the face and heart of the Franchise for nothing.  If good business had been conducted the City would not be freaking out and the team would have won more than a couple of playoff rounds since his installation.  Having said this the buck doesn’t stop with him it stops with the owners and I suspect they are getting impatient as well.

 

Gio has always been the fittest flame and I will bet he is good for another three seasons, he is a complete class act and that is why he has gone with such grace.

 

  We once had a great defensive pairing in Gio and Brodie, now they are gone with nothing in return.  One of our best playoff performers is also gone and looking pretty good elsewhere although it’s early.  Players are making demands via agents and rumours abound about those who are good wanting out.  Three of the biggest fan favourites in Gio, Benny and Rittich are gone in this the entertainment business.   All I’m saying is It’s my view that he needs to pull off something big to help the team now or his position will be in question.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he would agree.  

 

Of your 3 faves, which would you want to give up for nothing?

You willing to expose Tanev or Hanifin just to protect a D that may only play one more year?

You willing to expose Dube to keep an underperforming C/RW?

Keep Rittich even though it was obvious we had a new starter and he would not get much of a chance?

 

The two trades we made gave two guys a chance at gettibng their careers back on track.

Gio gets a chance to extend his career.

 

I don't get how he failed in two expansion drafts, even if you consider the latest a fail.  Losing a UFA Engelland is a poor expansion draft loss?  Seriously?

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Instead of being arrogant what he should have said to Mr Francis was;

 

Yes Eric that’s the question that I know everyone in the city is asking.  It’s one that I have to face the music on, I owe that to Gio and the City.  Then he could have continued with the cap explanation, the high ask and finally he should have said that this decision rests with him and he takes responsibility for it…. Something along those lines…

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How has the performance of the team been during his tenure? He has been there quite a while. It’s my view that other deals could have been done to prevent the loss of these players in this manner.  What we got for many of these players appears good but it’s my view many were mismanaged and many were heart players who showed up in the playoffs, I’m not sure we are retaining those sort of guys.   He seems a shrewd businessman  when it comes to the deal but I’m not sure he understands the game at ice level.  Again just my view, it’s easy to sit back and call out guys but I have been asking for more size and Canadian/ CHL content on the team. Now that Sutter is there he seems to be saying the same. We need a motivator on the bench who understands which players want to win and gets the most out of them.  I believe Sutter is a great choice and I don’t believe he was a BT choice, the others were poor.  We don’t need a country club we need guys who work to win at any and all cost - Gio wasn’t drafted and went to Russia, he knows what it takes, big mistake losing him this way.  Just my opinion.
 

 

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23 minutes ago, 89Again said:

Instead of being arrogant what he should have said to Mr Francis was;

 

Yes Eric that’s the question that I know everyone in the city is asking.  It’s one that I have to face the music on, I owe that to Gio and the City.  Then he could have continued with the cap explanation, the high ask and finally he should have said that this decision rests with him and he takes responsibility for it…. Something along those lines…

 

I'm so sick of Eric Francis trying to up his status at the expense of the Flames.

Whether is press conference questions or his stories about Tkachuk or about Gaudreau playing his last game as a Flame, I can do without BT responding to loaded questions.  By naming the ask from Seattle, it puts the onus on him to justify not paying it.  There may be reasons why he chose to expose him that the public does not need to know.  No different than trading a player; you don't get into the reasons why.

 

Don't take this wrong, I'm not trying to attack you about the topic or suggest that BT is the best, just so fed up with Eric Francis.   

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43 minutes ago, 89Again said:

Instead of being arrogant what he should have said to Mr Francis was;

 

Yes Eric that’s the question that I know everyone in the city is asking.  It’s one that I have to face the music on, I owe that to Gio and the City.  Then he could have continued with the cap explanation, the high ask and finally he should have said that this decision rests with him and he takes responsibility for it…. Something along those lines…


i take it you did not listen to his press conference then. He literally said all these things. 
 

People.. the off season hasn’t even started yet. I get he’s burned the faith of some and that’s fine but the amount of anger and frustration that is backed up by no actual facts or logic is crazy to me. 

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51 minutes ago, cross16 said:


i take it you did not listen to his press conference then. He literally said all these things. 
 

People.. the off season hasn’t even started yet. I get he’s burned the faith of some and that’s fine but the amount of anger and frustration that is backed up by no actual facts or logic is crazy to me. 


i think that there are a few facts that we look at.

 

1. lack of playoff success.

2. Lacklustre on-ice performance, or doing what it takes to win/compete.

3. Being a cap team without being competitive enough. I get it, there are many cap teams that aren’t much more better off than the Flames, but i think that’s letting them off easy. 
4. lack of prospects, future is bleak with an already bleak current roster. Too many picks spent on “the now” in the past drafts. We are seeing it now. 
5. poor UFA track record with one good signing in Tanev and the other in Markstrom (a bit over priced but not too much, but the extra year could hurt). The rest speak for itself… Ryan was ok, but 3M is a touch high. 
6. no real vision to building the lineup, major holes.


there are a few reasons we have little reason for optimism. 
 

optimism:

 

1. Drafting has gotten better under BT. But then I think, why trade away your future by trading picks when drafting has been better? 
2. How many good trades has he made? I will give him credit for the Hamilton for Lindholm and Hanifin deal. I will give up on the whole Fox fiasco… 

3. good at negotiating with RFA’s. 
4. works hard. 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:


i take it you did not listen to his press conference then. He literally said all these things. 
 

People.. the off season hasn’t even started yet. I get he’s burned the faith of some and that’s fine but the amount of anger and frustration that is backed up by no actual facts or logic is crazy to me. 

I heard what he said, there are some good points ($cap hit) etc, I included them above but its how he presents it and its how he has himself in the need to explain and his very poor job of presenting it.  He knows everyone is fed up with him, he’s defensive……

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4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


i think that there are a few facts that we look at.

 

1. lack of playoff success.

2. Lacklustre on-ice performance, or doing what it takes to win/compete.

3. Being a cap team without being competitive enough. I get it, there are many cap teams that aren’t much more better off than the Flames, but i think that’s letting them off easy. 
4. lack of prospects, future is bleak with an already bleak current roster. Too many picks spent on “the now” in the past drafts. We are seeing it now. 
5. poor UFA track record with one good signing in Tanev and the other in Markstrom (a bit over priced but not too much, but the extra year could hurt). The rest speak for itself… Ryan was ok, but 3M is a touch high. 
6. no real vision to building the lineup, major holes.


there are a few reasons we have little reason for optimism. 
 

optimism:

 

1. Drafting has gotten better under BT. But then I think, why trade away your future by trading picks when drafting has been better? 
2. How many good trades has he made? I will give him credit for the Hamilton for Lindholm and Hanifin deal. I will give up on the whole Fox fiasco… 

3. good at negotiating with RFA’s. 
4. works hard. 

I agree with all. Good note.  

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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm so sick of Eric Francis trying to up his status at the expense of the Flames.

Whether is press conference questions or his stories about Tkachuk or about Gaudreau playing his last game as a Flame, I can do without BT responding to loaded questions.  By naming the ask from Seattle, it puts the onus on him to justify not paying it.  There may be reasons why he chose to expose him that the public does not need to know.  No different than trading a player; you don't get into the reasons why.

 

Don't take this wrong, I'm not trying to attack you about the topic or suggest that BT is the best, just so fed up with Eric Francis.   

Its all good, this is good respectful debate not a problem at all.  
 

Francis, I agree is trying to make a name for himself,  I have been a bit frustrated with him as well but I will withhold judgement until I see what happens with Johnny…. If he signs an extension I will be impressed but I have my doubts.  There is no doubt that this is the biggest story out there so he needs to be involved.  The Tkachuk thing really was not necessary right now so if there is no basis he is totally offside.

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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:


i think that there are a few facts that we look at.

 

1. lack of playoff success.

2. Lacklustre on-ice performance, or doing what it takes to win/compete.

3. Being a cap team without being competitive enough. I get it, there are many cap teams that aren’t much more better off than the Flames, but i think that’s letting them off easy. 
4. lack of prospects, future is bleak with an already bleak current roster. Too many picks spent on “the now” in the past drafts. We are seeing it now. 
5. poor UFA track record with one good signing in Tanev and the other in Markstrom (a bit over priced but not too much, but the extra year could hurt). The rest speak for itself… Ryan was ok, but 3M is a touch high. 
6. no real vision to building the lineup, major holes.


there are a few reasons we have little reason for optimism. 
 

optimism:

 

1. Drafting has gotten better under BT. But then I think, why trade away your future by trading picks when drafting has been better? 
2. How many good trades has he made? I will give him credit for the Hamilton for Lindholm and Hanifin deal. I will give up on the whole Fox fiasco… 

3. good at negotiating with RFA’s. 
4. works hard. 


as I said if people have deemed him a bad GM and want to move on fine, to each their own. This has been debated for a while now but he is clearly going to be the Flames GM. Rehashing all this stuff and then jumping all over him without seeing the off-season plan just makes no sense to me. Why not see his plan and then criticize as opposed to criticize over nothing or digging at old wounds? 
 

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15 hours ago, cross16 said:


interesting evaluation from the hurricanes. Clearly they don’t view him as a starter so be interesting to see how this one pans out. 

Never thought to check until now. They had him as their protected goalie from Seattle. 2 days later trade him, could they not have gotten more for him? Stellar numbers last year. He'll sure get tested in Hockeytown.

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9 hours ago, cross16 said:


as I said if people have deemed him a bad GM and want to move on fine, to each their own. This has been debated for a while now but he is clearly going to be the Flames GM. Rehashing all this stuff and then jumping all over him without seeing the off-season plan just makes no sense to me. Why not see his plan and then criticize as opposed to criticize over nothing or digging at old wounds? 
 

cross, I love your balance. A lot of people that liked his moves when they were made now use hindsight against him.

I think BT has always tried to put some grit into this roster, I think he gets that part.

I think him and Sutter will be a good team. Sutter knows the "kind" of grit.

Pitlick's a good start.

Sutter's been a top coach for a long time, and I'm positive BT's a great listener.

As some don't love the Sutter hire pointing to no rebuild, I think of it more of him showing the org "how" to build a team.

For this reason, I doubt we have an untouchable player.

Heart and passion were the keywords questioning the team this year.

I think "buy-in" is more accurate.

That's why I love Sutter, "buy-in, or I don't need you here".

And the soundbites of course. Eric Frances' worst nightmare.lol

If BT runs right out for a top RW and LD, we'll only find out that our problems run deeper than just that.

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

 

If BT runs right out for a top RW and LD, we'll only find out that our problems run deeper than just that.

 

That's key.  A few months before the next season and so many GM will rush to fill spots.

Don't sleep on dealing, just don't jump at the 1st one available (like Holland did with Keith).

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Lets hope today is a great day - am I correct that Johnny’s NTC starts in five days.  We likely are going to learn much in the next week - some excitement!

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10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That's key.  A few months before the next season and so many GM will rush to fill spots.

Don't sleep on dealing, just don't jump at the 1st one available (like Holland did with Keith).

I don't think it is at all. It's getting a backup for our MVP.

Then getting a lot less skating in mud and a soft opponent.

Then, address the superstar 1st line.

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16 minutes ago, 89Again said:

Lets hope today is a great day - am I correct that Johnny’s NTC starts in five days.  We likely are going to learn much in the next week - some excitement!

NJ picking 4th….

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8 minutes ago, 89Again said:

NJ picking 4th….

With Seattle at no. 2 this could be interesting.  Maybe there was a side deal on Gio and maybe BT has caught a rabbit?

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2 hours ago, 89Again said:

With Seattle at no. 2 this could be interesting.  Maybe there was a side deal on Gio and maybe BT has caught a rabbit?

Don't set yourself up for disappointment...

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2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I don't think it is at all. It's getting a backup for our MVP.

Then getting a lot less skating in mud and a soft opponent.

Then, address the superstar 1st line.

 

Just curious who you see as being the players Sutter would prefer to move on from.

Monahan is soft but normally a goal scorer.

Backlund underrated as a defensive C, but I think he's missing parts of his game.

Gaudreau, obviously the softest player, but also the most dynamic player on the team.

Dube hasn't found the sweet spot yet, and seems to be in the doghouse at times.

Lucic stuck in the mud, but plays a Sutter game.

Tkachuk, held back but Sutter admitted he needed to find him more icetime.

Ras and Valimaki being held back or questioning their own ability to jump into the offense.

 

There are trades that could alleviate some of the "softness", but I'm not sure they make us better.

Also some trades to improve the top 9, but taking away perhaps the wrong player to do so.

 

Any specific suggestions?

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