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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

A creative idea.

 

 

The longer this Eichel saga drags out, the more I think the Flames can get him. Vegas can't, they need to ship out 10 mill just to bring Eichel in. Wild are rumoured to be out, which makes sense with the dead cap they have in the coming years. 

 

 

Unrelated, but man, what a turtle derby it's gonna be between Buffalo and Arizona this year for 32nd, just like 2015. The Sabres have a Craig Anderson and Aaron Dell tandem, and right now Arizona has Carter Hutton and Josef Korenar

 

Creative, but way too much to gove up.

Monahan + Zary + Valimaki + 1st + 2nd

Why exactly would Buffalo trade a C after losing a C?

Makes no sense.

 

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2 hours ago, zima said:

Do you think that Eich is a better player than MrT due to all his (Eich's) Injuries I notice that alot of Flames Fans have lost there love for MrT I myself think he will just get better. Last yr was a bad yr for the whole team not just Chucky and I think Eick. I also believe losing Gio will be a huge lose more than this Fan base realizes 

 

Nobody is saying Tkachuk is a bad player.  The price of a franchise center is a player like Matty.

Tkachuk has had his share of injuries, a concussion in the playoffs against Dallas.

The problem with him is that he is at his best when he plays like he did against Kassian.

He didn't play like that much last year.

In fact it looked like he was told to back off.

 

The other issue is when he's in the news (like dispute with Doubty or the aftermath of the EDMM game when Kassian lot it), he follows it up with a dud game.

 

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23 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Creative, but way too much to gove up.

Monahan + Zary + Valimaki + 1st + 2nd

Why exactly would Buffalo trade a C after losing a C?

Makes no sense.

 

Rotational and 100% agree

 

also, who is smith, I don’t see any smith on LVK roster 

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4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 


crazy. Quite a stand-off here. 
 

Don’t blame the Sabres for waiting though and trying to get their best deal

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24 minutes ago, cross16 said:


crazy. Quite a stand-off here. 
 

Don’t blame the Sabres for waiting though and trying to get their best deal

Man you would have to have some confidence in the situation to trade a boatload for him.  It would be devastating to lose Matty, a first round pick, and prospect (suspected ask), then have Jack get the surgery and never play again.  Tough situation and has to be driving the trade value way down.  Who blinks first?

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37 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

Who would ever want to play in BUF in the future with allegations like this?  No way anyone waives their NTC/NMC to go there.  If the Flames are going to trade anyone to BUF, then Tkachuk is the only big name without a NTC, so it's got to be him.  Not Gaudreau, Monahan, etc.

 

 

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Who would ever want to play in BUF in the future with allegations like this?  No way anyone waives their NTC/NMC to go there.  If the Flames are going to trade anyone to BUF, then Tkachuk is the only big name without a NTC, so it's got to be him.  Not Gaudreau, Monahan, etc.

 

 

I agree. Some point to Monahan's Southern Ontario connection, but I don't see it. I can't see him wanting to head to Buffalo.

 

If the Flames were to do this, I think the play has to be sending Monahan elsewhere. It's well known that Buffalo doesn't want NHL players, they want futures.  I have no clue what Monahan's value is, but say you get a 2nd and a 3rd (Arvidsson deal). Probably underwhelming given what Monahan has meant to the franchise, but it frees up the cap space to get an Eichel deal done and it also gives you some extra capital. I'd imagine BT's offer consists of a 1st and two 2nd's (Hamonic and Hamilton deals) + whatever futures it takes to push the deal across the finish line.

 

The Flames have decided they should go for it. Look at their UFA signings the past two seasons. Right now they are "half pregnant". If they are indeed serious about this, they should pay up and land Eichel. Even if he misses 20 games, you still have 4 full seasons of him under contract.

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

Go for it. If not because we haven’t had a bonified #1 C since Nieuwy, do it because clearly this team isn’t rebuilding given the recent acquisitions. So go for it. 
 

Push all your chips in. Screw these half-measures that only make us a middling team in the league. If we ain’t rebuilding, we going for it. 
 

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2 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I agree. Some point to Monahan's Southern Ontario connection, but I don't see it. I can't see him wanting to head to Buffalo.

 

If the Flames were to do this, I think the play has to be sending Monahan elsewhere. It's well known that Buffalo doesn't want NHL players, they want futures.  I have no clue what Monahan's value is, but say you get a 2nd and a 3rd (Arvidsson deal). Probably underwhelming given what Monahan has meant to the franchise, but it frees up the cap space to get an Eichel deal done and it also gives you some extra capital. I'd imagine BT's offer consists of a 1st and two 2nd's (Hamonic and Hamilton deals) + whatever futures it takes to push the deal across the finish line.

 

The Flames have decided they should go for it. Look at their UFA signings the past two seasons. Right now they are "half pregnant". If they are indeed serious about this, they should pay up and land Eichel. Even if he misses 20 games, you still have 4 full seasons of him under contract.

Hahaha - very similar posts you and I at the same time eh TBC? Great minds buddy. 😆

 

And just an FYI - Kevyn Adams did say futures *or* NHL players that can help the team now, so I don’t think he’d refuse an NHL roster player or 2. It just has to be what he’s looking for. 
 

Quite frankly, I don’t think we’re in the running for 1st overall this year or next year (to JJ’s dismay) due to the mandate from ownership and us continuing to acquire players to be a playoff team. That said, if we’re going to make a run for a cup, we’ll probably want to retain as many of our current roster players as possible. So, next year’s first overall would be on the table for me. Maybe even 2023’s. That thinking gets Eichel here to play with Johnny and Chucky. Maybe flip Mony for another position of need elsewhere. 

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4 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

Hahaha - very similar posts you and I at the same time eh TBC? Great minds buddy. 😆

 

And just an FYI - Kevyn Adams did say futures *or* NHL players that can help the team now, so I don’t think he’d refuse an NHL roster player or 2. It just has to be what he’s looking for. 
 

Quite frankly, I don’t think we’re in the running for 1st overall this year or next year (to JJ’s dismay) due to the mandate from ownership and us continuing to acquire players to be a playoff team. That said, if we’re going to make a run for a cup, we’ll probably want to retain as many of our current roster players as possible. So, next year’s first overall would be on the table for me. Maybe even 2023’s. That thinking gets Eichel here to play with Johnny and Chucky. Maybe flip Mony for another position of need elsewhere. 

I absolutely love the thought of this top 6

Gaudreau-Eichel-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Coleman

 

That top line could easily see all three skaters averaging a pt/g.

That Lindholm line would spend a lot of time in the attacking end for a so-called "shutdown line".

 

If BT doesn't make another move, I can see the Flames *possibly* being a playoff team. If they get Eichel I think it completely changes the conversation. They have the abiltiy to go Eichel/Lindholm/Backlund down the middle. You can argue that's the best C depth in the West, if not the league. But without getting a head of myself, with Eichel the Flames could challenge the Golden Knights for top spot in the Pacific. They already have better depth than EDM, they just don't have that stud centre.

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Maybe I am old school, but I still think your best bet to building a winning team is a superstar C, a strong top 4, a legitimate starter, crash and bang wingers, and a few scorers / skill players scattered across the line up. I also think you generally need to be a fast team from top to bottom, be committed to 2 way play, and have depth. I think the above is especially true if you have D Sutter as your coach. 

 

The Flames have made moves over the past three seasons to address much of the above. But we remain weak down the middle. Other teams have McDavid, Mathews, MacKinnon, Crosby, etc. We have Monahan/Lindholm. 

 

Eichel is a risk due to his injury, contract, and cost of acquisition. But he is still the best bet to solve the C issue. Elite centres aren't usually available outside of the top 3 draft spots. 

 

If it costs us some picks, prospects, and one of Monahan or Tkachuk its a no brainer Imo. We are deep on left wing (the easiest slot to fill) and even an injured Eichal is an upgrade on Monahan. 

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35 minutes ago, kehatch said:

Maybe I am old school, but I still think your best bet to building a winning team is a superstar C, a strong top 4, a legitimate starter, crash and bang wingers, and a few scorers / skill players scattered across the line up. I also think you generally need to be a fast team from top to bottom, be committed to 2 way play, and have depth. I think the above is especially true if you have D Sutter as your coach. 

 

The Flames have made moves over the past three seasons to address much of the above. But we remain weak down the middle. Other teams have McDavid, Mathews, MacKinnon, Crosby, etc. We have Monahan/Lindholm. 

 

Eichel is a risk due to his injury, contract, and cost of acquisition. But he is still the best bet to solve the C issue. Elite centres aren't usually available outside of the top 3 draft spots. 

 

If it costs us some picks, prospects, and one of Monahan or Tkachuk its a no brainer Imo. We are deep on left wing (the easiest slot to fill) and even an injured Eichal is an upgrade on Monahan. 

 

Hey welcome back.  Long time.

 

I agree with everything here.  All of our LWs should be on the table for Eichel and if we are truly committed to go all in the next 2 or 3 years, then go all in.  Don't stop 1 player short (the most important position to fill).  Get Eichel at pretty much all costs.  Tkachuk, Mangiapane, doesn't matter.  LW is easily replaced, if not already.  Dube can move to top 6 LW.  Pelletier might be ready if not also included in the trade.  Zary can move to LW if not included in the trade.  Emil Heineman is a LHS RW that we got from the Bennett trade who might be NHL ready to move to LW if not also included in the trade.

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10 hours ago, cross16 said:


crazy. Quite a stand-off here. 
 

Don’t blame the Sabres for waiting though and trying to get their best deal

I agree but it’s gotta be a delicate situation, other players will see how Eichel is being treated and it’s not just a crybaby situation here it’s a player health issue so the longer this drags on now the worse it’s gonna get for Buf in terms of NHL players black listings Buf, I know if I were a player seeing this I’d be like any team but Buf cause they don’t care about the players 

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I agree with the camp that the Flames should be aggressive on Eichel and be willing to pay up to do it. If it costs you multiple futures like Zary, Pelletier; a first it’s well worth it IMO. 
 

Obviously they’ll get the opinion of their own doctors but I don’t see the surgery and medical thing as much of a risk as some. 

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41 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I agree with the camp that the Flames should be aggressive on Eichel and be willing to pay up to do it. If it costs you multiple futures like Zary, Pelletier; a first it’s well worth it IMO. 
 

Obviously they’ll get the opinion of their own doctors but I don’t see the surgery and medical thing as much of a risk as some. 

Nope! Draw the line at Zary and our new guy this year, Pelletier I’m ok with, as he’s smallish and we have a few really good ones like Manji and Dube who are young enough to span the Gaudreau gap and the next few drafts…

 

id be ok with 2022 or 2023 1st but it’s gotta be provisional on Eichels health which I’m betting teams are insisting on, especially with the lack of disclosure by BUF…I feel Buf is trying to scam teams on this Eichel thing and that’s why everyone is waiting on it 

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1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

Nope! Draw the line at Zary and our new guy this year, Pelletier I’m ok with, as he’s smallish and we have a few really good ones like Manji and Dube who are young enough to span the Gaudreau gap and the next few drafts…

 

id be ok with 2022 or 2023 1st but it’s gotta be provisional on Eichels health which I’m betting teams are insisting on, especially with the lack of disclosure by BUF…I feel Buf is trying to scam teams on this Eichel thing and that’s why everyone is waiting on it 

 

Buffalo isn't blocking serious teams from seeing the reports.  Only tire kickers are not welcome.

My only concern is a lotto protected 1st.

Even that is just about top 2, but I don't really have a strong knowledge about next season's top 5.

 

The included pieces for me depend on who the primary piece is.

If it's Monahan, then the pieces are more substantial.

If Tkachuk, less so.

 

Let's face it, Buffalo isn't getting Lafreniere or Stetzle.

Lias Andersson or Chytl maybe.

A rebuild of a rebuild isn't going to work very well for them.

Lotto odds make them as likely to be passed twice as win.

And you need more than a Skinner and prospects to be able to eventually climb out f the hole.

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12 hours ago, lou44291 said:

Quite frankly, I don’t think we’re in the running for 1st overall this year or next year (to JJ’s dismay) due to the mandate from ownership and us continuing to acquire players to be a playoff team. That said, if we’re going to make a run for a cup, we’ll probably want to retain as many of our current roster players as possible. So, next year’s first overall would be on the table for me. Maybe even 2023’s. That thinking gets Eichel here to play with Johnny and Chucky. Maybe flip Mony for another position of need elsewhere. 

To be in the running for 1st we need to seriously gut this roster, with the looks of Buffalo, Arizona, Columbus that's probably your bottom 3, I don't know if I see significant improvement coming from New Jersey, Detroit, Anaheim, so drafting 1st is a pipedream.  Gotta go big from here or we're stuck in the middle.

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1 hour ago, sak22 said:

To be in the running for 1st we need to seriously gut this roster, with the looks of Buffalo, Arizona, Columbus that's probably your bottom 3, I don't know if I see significant improvement coming from New Jersey, Detroit, Anaheim, so drafting 1st is a pipedream.  Gotta go big from here or we're stuck in the middle.

 

I agree.  Go all the way.  Don't stop and preserve a 1st round pick... Or worse, use it on TDL just to try to get into the playoffs.  At least Eichel is signed for 5 more years.  If we treat him here better than BUF then he may want to stay the rest of his career.  

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5 hours ago, MP5029 said:

I agree but it’s gotta be a delicate situation, other players will see how Eichel is being treated and it’s not just a crybaby situation here it’s a player health issue so the longer this drags on now the worse it’s gonna get for Buf in terms of NHL players black listings Buf, I know if I were a player seeing this I’d be like any team but Buf cause they don’t care about the players 

 

Also, why should Eichel help BUF rape the new team he's going to?  If he's coming to the Flames, then he's going to want the Flames to have more talent around the lineup.

 

This statement basically says Eichel's camp kept their word and BUF didn't.  So no more MrNiceguy.  

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17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Also, why should Eichel help BUF rape the new team he's going to?  If he's coming to the Flames, then he's going to want the Flames to have more talent around the lineup.

 

This statement basically says Eichel's camp kept their word and BUF didn't.  So no more MrNiceguy.  

Oh totally agree, I’m pretty sure Eichel will play his Hash Rate off for whatever team he ends up with just to show Buf…I’m also very sure Buf is on thin ice with players giving how they are treating Eichel, it’s not just a disgruntled player in this case, he’s disgruntled because they are treating him as a commodity vs a person which in this case is totally wrong as it’s an injury/health issue…at this point I don’t think you can trade a player with a M-NMC to Buf cause pretty sure any player with control will not go to Buf 

 

I know if I were a player I’d not go or play one game even if I had no choice I’d sit out indefinitely rather than risk injury in Buf where they would probably treat

me as bad or worse than Eichel, this was a solid play by Eichel’s agent it’s gonna make this a whole lot harder for Buf…especially if they refuse to trade him and refuse to let him get surgery and he misses games over this..cause I can guarantee he’s not gonna play a single game more

for Buf or report to their camp, and if I’m being honest I can’t blame him.

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2 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Oh totally agree, I’m pretty sure Eichel will play his Hash Rate off for whatever team he ends up with just to show Buf…I’m also very sure Buf is on thin ice with players giving how they are treating Eichel, it’s not just a disgruntled player in this case, he’s disgruntled because they are treating him as a commodity vs a person which in this case is totally wrong as it’s an injury/health issue…at this point I don’t think you can trade a player with a M-NMC to Buf cause pretty sure any player with control will not go to Buf 

 

I know if I were a player I’d not go or play one game even if I had no choice I’d sit out indefinitely rather than risk injury in Buf where they would probably treat

me as bad or worse than Eichel, this was a solid play by Eichel’s agent it’s gonna make this a whole lot harder for Buf…especially if they refuse to trade him and refuse to let him get surgery and he misses games over this..cause I can guarantee he’s not gonna play a single game more

for Buf or report to their camp, and if I’m being honest I can’t blame him.

 

Yups 100%.

 

Biggest problem is BUF is NOT trying to win this year so the longer this Eichel thing drags out, it is ironically better for them.  They get no assets to help them win immediately.  They also get this dark cloud hanging over them to begin the season to help them lose harder.  All players demotivated and demoralized.  It's exactly what they want.

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7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yups 100%.

 

Biggest problem is BUF is NOT trying to win this year so the longer this Eichel thing drags out, it is ironically better for them.  They get no assets to help them win immediately.  They also get this dark cloud hanging over them to begin the season to help them lose harder.  All players demotivated and demoralized.  It's exactly what they want.

Yes I guess but after this season, I’m pretty sure at some point they are gonna want to sign and bring players in but given this Eichle thing, I doubt they will have any luck with that and retaining players will be hard too…Players won’t forget this for a long while, and could set Buf up with a bad reputation for a long time and let’s face facts Eichel should be around the NHL for a while to remind playlets, so they may have a lot of 1st rounders but signing may become a problem 

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1 hour ago, MP5029 said:

Yes I guess but after this season, I’m pretty sure at some point they are gonna want to sign and bring players in but given this Eichle thing, I doubt they will have any luck with that and retaining players will be hard too…Players won’t forget this for a long while, and could set Buf up with a bad reputation for a long time and let’s face facts Eichel should be around the NHL for a while to remind playlets, so they may have a lot of 1st rounders but signing may become a problem 

 

Oh yes.  Brand damaged.  Certainly they may have to fire Adams to restore faith from the players.

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