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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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Ok first thing, I don’t see any move till after Aug 26th Arb date, which is a smart move, then BT will know exactly what he has to work with…having said that, let’s look at the team as it stands now, positional depth…

 

Takuck/Monahan/Lindholm 

Gaudreau/Backlund/?????

Manji/Coleman/Ritchie

Dube/Zary/Pitlick

Lucic/Forese/????

????/Gawin/???

????/Phillips/????

????/Ruzicka/???

 

some of these guys we are using and ar listed in the wrong areas such as Tachuck as RW, Dube as RW, Coleman as RW and Manji as RW…also Lindholm listed as Ctr…

 

I have them listed above as they should be by natural position and or (in the case of Lindholm and Tachuck where they have played the better part of their career with the most success…

 

also, the later 1/2 of the depth chart above is kinda hit or miss with the likes of Zary, Pellier and Ruzicka, quite able and possibly will displace the likes of gawin and Forese…which would be stellar…all and all, the lines are not very bad, they do lack super star power in areas, but overall not bad LW and Ctr depth (potentially)…

 

the glaring weak area which has been for 3-4 years now is that RW…we need a top 4 RW for the 2nd line and 2 better RW’s on the bottom 6.  While it’s not a super star packed too 6, it would be a more balanced 4 lines which is what wins…look at TB, it was their bottom 6 that won them the cup both years…while our top 6 may not be generational or superstar players they are star level players top 20 ish in their positions…say for the RW which is simply missing…I’d say if we could land a younger (27 years or younger, power forward type RW) for the 2nd line and then upgrade with a few hockey trades for the bottom 2 RWs this team would be a post season type team…making a move for Eichel will open up more holes than it fills and solves, as you won’t have anyone to play him with and it’s back to a one line team again…not to mention after that your stuck with nothing on the prospect and draft for a few years…makes absolutely no sense to go crazy here, find a nice fit RW at a reasonable price and then upgrade that bottom 6…Lucic contract is a real issue for what he brings, if not for that, this would be a lot easier.

 

trading your best pick since Monahan, that being Tachuck, who could be the next Captain and probably one of the best players in the game just to keep a tiny Gaudreau, Manji and Dube…I don’t get…anyways, the best thing is to land another RW RS and upgrade through the year up front…ans also, land another RS RD to fill out that D…if Markstrom and the rest of the team bounce back to form this team will do very well. 

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10 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'm going to lay off this thread and a few others for a bit, this is not the effect I'm trying to make, the boards should be enjoyable for everyone.

 

My parting comment though, is that change is inevitable.   I disagree that this thread has devolved, it may actually be evolving, something we all have to continually do.

 

Page after page after page of people proposing we acquire a forward (usually a center) for either draft picks or prospects, from my perspective is neither interesting nor productive nor realistic.   It doesn't strike me as evolved.

 

If someone suggests a young goalie acquisition or a young defenceman acquisition or God forbid an acquisition of draft picks / prospects on here it has in the past been either dismissed or hotly contested.     Even though, in hindsight these have almost always been the best proposals.

 

But that's been changing.

 

The reality is that we are entering a rebuild and that will Continue to become more apparent, and that is something beyond anyone's control, including any of us, myself, or even BT.  The writing is on the wall and the writing should be here too.   The fighting about it doesn't necessarily have to be.   Nor do I think that will last.

 

ok...off to the Oilers thread for me lol.

I have to say sometimes your posts annoy me, sometimes they enlighten me. I have come to appreciate your passion and philosophy in building young from the net out as the only path to years of contention. For me the title of this thread is Realistic Trades for Improvement, which is what I like to see and discuss. For me trading Monahan for a 1st Rnd pick next year is great, but it doesn’t necessarily improve our team. Teams who need Monahan like I mentioned being Boston, NYR, or Vegas are most likely in the 20-30 pick range next year. So is the hope we can combine ours and a first we inherit to move up to get an impact player in the top 5? Probably not. What if we traded Gaudreau for a 1st? Losing Monahan and Johnny for an extra 2 1sts next year, that would be amazing and everyone would be excited for 3 picks next year. And by rights our pick will be quite high as we are going to have a very hard time scoring without those two. So while it may make our team better in 3-5 years from now, it kind of defeats the purpose of this thread. 
For now enjoy the blue and gold roasting, and I hope your not gone for long.

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7 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Ok first thing, I don’t see any move till after Aug 26th Arb date, which is a smart move, then BT will know exactly what he has to work with…having said that, let’s look at the team as it stands now, positional depth…

 

Takuck/Monahan/Lindholm 

Gaudreau/Backlund/?????

Manji/Coleman/Ritchie

Dube/Zary/Pitlick

Lucic/Forese/????

????/Gawin/???

????/Phillips/????

????/Ruzicka/???

 

some of these guys we are using and ar listed in the wrong areas such as Tachuck as RW, Dube as RW, Coleman as RW and Manji as RW…also Lindholm listed as Ctr…

 

I have them listed above as they should be by natural position and or (in the case of Lindholm and Tachuck where they have played the better part of their career with the most success…

 

also, the later 1/2 of the depth chart above is kinda hit or miss with the likes of Zary, Pellier and Ruzicka, quite able and possibly will displace the likes of gawin and Forese…which would be stellar…all and all, the lines are not very bad, they do lack super star power in areas, but overall not bad LW and Ctr depth (potentially)…

 

the glaring weak area which has been for 3-4 years now is that RW…we need a top 4 RW for the 2nd line and 2 better RW’s on the bottom 6.  While it’s not a super star packed too 6, it would be a more balanced 4 lines which is what wins…look at TB, it was their bottom 6 that won them the cup both years…while our top 6 may not be generational or superstar players they are star level players top 20 ish in their positions…say for the RW which is simply missing…I’d say if we could land a younger (27 years or younger, power forward type RW) for the 2nd line and then upgrade with a few hockey trades for the bottom 2 RWs this team would be a post season type team…making a move for Eichel will open up more holes than it fills and solves, as you won’t have anyone to play him with and it’s back to a one line team again…not to mention after that your stuck with nothing on the prospect and draft for a few years…makes absolutely no sense to go crazy here, find a nice fit RW at a reasonable price and then upgrade that bottom 6…Lucic contract is a real issue for what he brings, if not for that, this would be a lot easier.

 

trading your best pick since Monahan, that being Tachuck, who could be the next Captain and probably one of the best players in the game just to keep a tiny Gaudreau, Manji and Dube…I don’t get…anyways, the best thing is to land another RW RS and upgrade through the year up front…ans also, land another RS RD to fill out that D…if Markstrom and the rest of the team bounce back to form this team will do very well. 

Do you have a suggestion for a top RW that we could get, and what we give up to get him? Just curious how to make this work?

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38 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

If someone suggests a young goalie acquisition or a young defenceman acquisition or God forbid an acquisition of draft picks / prospects on here it has in the past been either dismissed or hotly contested.     Even though, in hindsight these have almost always been the best proposals.

 

Trading a top player for a pick is a hard sell.  Usually part of the rebuild discussion.

I do think that a lot of the debate centers around what it would take to complete trade X.

Would I like to have Sorokin or Saros or Gordiev (sp)?

Sure, but those teams will only trade if a team pays big time.

Chychrun?

Awesome, but will ARI even consider it?  Why would they?

Top prospects never seem to gain traction because they are that; a top prospect.

You want one, you better fork over a pick or a top player.

If the upsiede is less than what you have for 5-8 years from the current player, it's a step back and possibly a step forward.

Or giving away picks.

 

The real debate seems to be around what players are considered next level.

Not everyone agrees that Eichel is the next one or that draft pick from 2021 X is the stud from the litter.

And none of us stake our careers on being right.

Or have the luxury of a really deep team to be able to make a risky deal.

 

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I agree the longer this Eichel thing drags out, the better it is for the Flames because other teams are moving on but we are still interested and still have cap room.

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10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I agree the longer this Eichel thing drags out, the better it is for the Flames because other teams are moving on but we are still interested and still have cap room.

 

If Monahan is not part of the deal, then we also stand a decent chance at getting higher value for him.

Keeping him and trading Tkachuk first, then trading him for a team that picked up a bunch of D or excess wingers....

Or just keeping him and having two capable scoring lines:

 

Gaudreau-Eichel-Lindholm

Mangiapane-Monahan-Coleman

 

This may not cut deep enough into the culture change design, but effectively we have removed two from the core.

Perhaps we could trade Lucic + Kylington + Gawdin for Kapanen, retaining $1m of Lucic's salary.

Just spitballin.  You know Lucic is a Burke player, while I think Kapanen is not.

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3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'm going to lay off this thread and a few others for a bit, this is not the effect I'm trying to make, the boards should be enjoyable for everyone.

 

My parting comment though, is that change is inevitable.   I disagree that this thread has devolved, it may actually be evolving, something we all have to continually do.

 

Page after page after page of people proposing we acquire a forward (usually a center) for either draft picks or prospects, from my perspective is neither interesting nor productive nor realistic.   It doesn't strike me as evolved.

 

If someone suggests a young goalie acquisition or a young defenceman acquisition or God forbid an acquisition of draft picks / prospects on here it has in the past been either dismissed or hotly contested.     Even though, in hindsight these have almost always been the best proposals.

 

But that's been changing.

 

The reality is that we are entering a rebuild and that will Continue to become more apparent, and that is something beyond anyone's control, including any of us, myself, or even BT.  The writing is on the wall and the writing should be here too.   The fighting about it doesn't necessarily have to be.   Nor do I think that will last.

 

ok...off to the Oilers thread for me lol.


 

unfortunately the owners want money. They’re in it for the playoff dough. If they could only see a done right rebuild as a better investment the team would be better for it. There are no high end players coming anytime soon (in the system). We need to do what Arizona is doing now, do what Buffalo is doing right now. We are only slightly better than the Sabres. Sure we

make the playoffs, but out early doesn’t cut it. 
then we also don’t make it every year. I think a lot of us are willing to see a true rebuild done right. We are smart enough to know that it is needed. 
 

but we know they’re going for it. They signed Coleman, they signed Markstrom and Tanev. I think that the need to have better D outweighs the need for a goalie. We need the goalie, but until we fix the D we will get similar results….

 

Does Zadorov help. I think he’s a good add. 
 

we might have a decent D as is. And if Valamaki can take a step. 
 

I like the idea of trying Kylington as a forward. I think Travel mentioned that. I thought that awhile ago as well.

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12 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


 

unfortunately the owners want money. They’re in it for the playoff dough. If they could only see a done right rebuild as a better investment the team would be better for it. There are no high end players coming anytime soon (in the system). We need to do what Arizona is doing now, do what Buffalo is doing right now. We are only slightly better than the Sabres. Sure we

make the playoffs, but out early doesn’t cut it. 
then we also don’t make it every year. I think a lot of us are willing to see a true rebuild done right. We are smart enough to know that it is needed. 
 

but we know they’re going for it. They signed Coleman, they signed Markstrom and Tanev. I think that the need to have better D outweighs the need for a goalie. We need the goalie, but until we fix the D we will get similar results….

 

Does Zadorov help. I think he’s a good add. 
 

we might have a decent D as is. And if Valamaki can take a step. 
 

I like the idea of trying Kylington as a forward. I think Travel mentioned that. I thought that awhile ago as well.

 

Yeah, the dye has been cast.  Whether it's the right decision or not remains to be seen.  Only thing we can do about it is to improve.

None of the recent "bigger" moves are wrong.  You do those if you are a contender or not.

 

We lacked a shutdown D that didn't get pushed around - Tanev signed.

We didn't have a starter like at all - Markstrom signed.

We lost a hybrid D-man to Seattle (one that could defend and score) - Zadorov traded for.

Missing a heart and soul player like Glen-X - Coleman signed.

 

We have been complaining about getting pushed around by other teams and manhandled in our D-zone.  

We brought in a physical (and big) D to deal with it.

And we brought in a defensive/scoring player to help out.

 

Let me be clear.  This is not the team we will be rolling out in September.

Like the song goes - "...looked like a jigsaw puzzle with a couple of pieces gone". 

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This guy thinks NYI is planning to make a play for a big name forward and thinks it could be Gaudreau.  If the Flames cannot extend Gaudreau before the start of the season then could NYI be a landing spot for Gaudreau?  Surely, all the NY teams and Philly are on Gaudreau's approved trade list.

 

 

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^^^^

Yikes, Bailey for Gaudreau?

Think he ate too many scallops and his brain went to mush.

 

If Pitts wants to trade to trade Pettersson for Lucic, then maybe we have a deal.

Not a great contract and a couple of years too long, but it does get us a D-man with some offensive upside.

Hello Team Sweden.

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Considering that WPG left Niku unprotected (and wasn't claimed), I wonder what it would cost to get him in trade.

He's one of those guys that has done a lot in the AHL and has not done much in the NHL.

Can play RD.

More of a project, but it seems like they have given up on Kylington on D.

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I don’t know if I buy this. Someone had a post very similar to this last year, but from an Oiler perspective. That “source” said Nurse was an issue in the room and was going to be dealt in a deal for OEL.

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10 hours ago, pikey7883 said:

Do you have a suggestion for a top RW that we could get, and what we give up to get him? Just curious how to make this work?

Yes unfortunately it’s gonna cost a prospect…Pelletier probably, and a 2nd round pick probably…may land Rakell..or

some similar else where..kinda depends on Anh

 

hes not exactly a top line RW but top 6 for sure and would definitely help…though I’d rather a big more power forward type that can skate and…but that’s a draft or Gaudreau trade..Gaudreau could be expendable given the LW depth we have.

 

anyway, there are some options without ripping up the whole team or mortgaging the future in the next few drafts which are deep on talent.

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5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

^^^^

Yikes, Bailey for Gaudreau?

Think he ate too many scallops and his brain went to mush.

 

If Pitts wants to trade to trade Pettersson for Lucic, then maybe we have a deal.

Not a great contract and a couple of years too long, but it does get us a D-man with some offensive upside.

Hello Team Sweden.

If we could be so lucky Pettersson for Lucic would be awesome, but would Lucic need to agree to the trade? 

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:


I don’t know if I buy this. Someone had a post very similar to this last year, but from an Oiler perspective. That “source” said Nurse was an issue in the room and was going to be dealt in a deal for OEL.

 

This would confirm all of our suspicions.  

 

Tkachuk wasn't the same after that incident and we began to hear rumors he wasn't happy.  

 

I can't recall all the players on the ice at that moment of the Muzzin incident. Giordano for sure.  Maybe Gaudreau, Andersson,... It was not our big package that's for sure.

 

Anyways, I blame both sides.  We need to fight for Tkachuk every night.  That's just part of being a teammate.  However, Tkachuk's reaction to the lack of support from his teammates was childish and immature.  So. 

 

Giordano is gone.  We've brought back Ritchie.  Added Zadorov, Pitlick, and Coleman for some sandpaper.  If we trade Gaudreau also, then we are suddenly a team that will stand up for Tkachuk every night.  Leadership group is different now.  Tkachuk could be happy here again.

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1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:


I don’t know if I buy this. Someone had a post very similar to this last year, but from an Oiler perspective. That “source” said Nurse was an issue in the room and was going to be dealt in a deal for OEL.

 

 

But let's imagine a trade with St.Louis involved.  Sabres basically want 4 pieces, 2 of whom are established and under 25.  The other two are 1st round pick or equivalent.

 

To Flames,

Eichel

 

To Blues,

Tkachuk

 

To Sabres,

Thomas 22-years-old RFA

Parayko 28, 1 year until UFA

Zary

Flames 1st round pick

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26 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

But let's imagine a trade with St.Louis involved.  Sabres basically want 4 pieces, 2 of whom are established and under 25.  The other two are 1st round pick or equivalent.

 

To Flames,

Eichel

 

To Blues,

Tkachuk

 

To Sabres,

Thomas 22-years-old RFA

Parayko 28, 1 year until UFA

Zary

Flames 1st round pick

 

Sorry, I want Parayko and Thomas for the Flames.

Eichel is a separate deal.

Unfortunately, it would mean that Monahan + Valimaki + Zary + 1st.

We lose a player that will not get enough reps here now and would be held to a higher standard.

 

Dare to dream

 

Gaudreai-Eichel-Thomas

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Coleman

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick

Lucic-Ruzicka-Lewis

Ritchie

 

Hanifin-Parayko

Zadorov-Ras

Kylington-Tanev

Mackey

 

Pretty sweet top 4D.

Tanev stabilizes 3rd pair.

Minutes are faitly even and only special teams define the minute munchers.

 

Forwards nothing to snipe about.

Top line, top scoring.

2nd line forechecking nightmare.

3rd line shutdown.

4th line has a little scoring and beef on the wings.

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11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sorry, I want Parayko and Thomas for the Flames.

Eichel is a separate deal.

Unfortunately, it would mean that Monahan + Valimaki + Zary + 1st.

We lose a player that will not get enough reps here now and would be held to a higher standard.

 

Dare to dream

 

Gaudreai-Eichel-Thomas

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Coleman

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick

Lucic-Ruzicka-Lewis

Ritchie

 

Hanifin-Parayko

Zadorov-Ras

Kylington-Tanev

Mackey

 

Pretty sweet top 4D.

Tanev stabilizes 3rd pair.

Minutes are faitly even and only special teams define the minute munchers.

 

Forwards nothing to snipe about.

Top line, top scoring.

2nd line forechecking nightmare.

3rd line shutdown.

4th line has a little scoring and beef on the wings.

 

I still think in a perfect world we keep Tkachuk, Gaudreau, and Lindholm while adding Eichel.  Then, with some combo of Mangiapane, Dube, and Coleman mixed into the top 6 and the Flames have two great scoring lines.

 

Anyways, if it costs us Tkachuk, then so be it.  We have to get Eichel or we don't stand a chance.  Even with him there's no guarantees but at least we have a fighting chance.

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58 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I still think in a perfect world we keep Tkachuk, Gaudreau, and Lindholm while adding Eichel.  Then, with some combo of Mangiapane, Dube, and Coleman mixed into the top 6 and the Flames have two great scoring lines.

 

Anyways, if it costs us Tkachuk, then so be it.  We have to get Eichel or we don't stand a chance.  Even with him there's no guarantees but at least we have a fighting chance.

 

It's starting to feel like Tkachuk is gone regardless of the Eichel trade. Between the early off season rumors and other noise it feels that way to me at least. Rumours around guys like Gaudreau are predictable. He is a UFA after this season. But Tkachuk is a big piece for this franchise and the Flames have contract control. I don't think those types of rumours come out of no where with a player like this. 

 

But if all is well between the Flames and Tkachuk, then I would prefer to include Monahan as well if there was an Eichel deal. But that will require a third team because I don't see Buffalo having any real interest in Monahan. 

 

The Flames are going to need to include one of Tkachuk, Lindholm, Monahan, or Gaudreau to make the salary work. My math has us between 6 and 8 million over without salary going out. 

 

Maybe if Buffalo retained 2 million and its Backlund in the deal. But I can't see Buffalo doing that, and if they did the cost is going to be more then the Flames can spend. 

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5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sorry, I want Parayko and Thomas for the Flames.

Eichel is a separate deal.

Unfortunately, it would mean that Monahan + Valimaki + Zary + 1st.

We lose a player that will not get enough reps here now and would be held to a higher standard.

 

Dare to dream

 

Gaudreai-Eichel-Thomas

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Coleman

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick

Lucic-Ruzicka-Lewis

Ritchie

 

Hanifin-Parayko

Zadorov-Ras

Kylington-Tanev

Mackey

 

Pretty sweet top 4D.

Tanev stabilizes 3rd pair.

Minutes are faitly even and only special teams define the minute munchers.

 

Forwards nothing to snipe about.

Top line, top scoring.

2nd line forechecking nightmare.

3rd line shutdown.

4th line has a little scoring and beef on the wings.

You realize Thomas for Tkachuk is a straight across deal? He is St Loo's franchise center for the future. Think a 22yo Patrice Bergeron.

If you wanna do that deal and no Eichel I'll listen. If they throw in Parayko I'd yell, "start the car".

Would instantly make Backlund tradeable for another asset.

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1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

You realize Thomas for Tkachuk is a straight across deal? He is St Loo's franchise center for the future. Think a 22yo Patrice Bergeron.

If you wanna do that deal and no Eichel I'll listen. If they throw in Parayko I'd yell, "start the car".

Would instantly make Backlund tradeable for another asset.

Yeha, that’s the type of return Cgy needs for Tachuck, anything less we would be better off keeping Tachuck.

 

personally, I’m very ok with moving Gaudreau, one of Dube and Manji and Backlund.  I think theses are the players we need to look at moving over any others.

 

as for Monahan, has to be a good return otherwise I wouldn’t bother shopping him.

 

the other issue/question is why is everyone so heck bent on moving Lindholm to Ctr, he didn’t show well at Ctr, he’s a much better as RW that can play Ctr when needed.

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14 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Yeha, that’s the type of return Cgy needs for Tachuck, anything less we would be better off keeping Tachuck.

 

personally, I’m very ok with moving Gaudreau, one of Dube and Manji and Backlund.  I think theses are the players we need to look at moving over any others.

 

as for Monahan, has to be a good return otherwise I wouldn’t bother shopping him.

 

the other issue/question is why is everyone so heck bent on moving Lindholm to Ctr, he didn’t show well at Ctr, he’s a much better as RW that can play Ctr when needed.

Thomas is such a complete player and St Loo has done awesome at taking their time with him. I prefer Lindholm at RW. I don't want to trade Dube or Mangia. Dube has a high ceiling for me, we don't need to push him into top 6, he'll get there. Like St Loo does with Thomas.

At times last year when we needed a W desperately, Dube and Mangia looked like the only two that played that way. Regardless, I don't think Sutter will let Dube be traded, I believe Sutter sees him as a player he can mold into a very good NHLer. There are a lot of tools there.

I like Backlund's 200' game, but the lack of tenacity seems like the epitome of the roster. The lack of finish can be really frustrating as well.

He's kinda the face of the franchise for me, in that the team lacks in the appetite for destruction that they need. Why I'm a fan of getting younger at most costs. Too many pros fall into their comfort zone and can seem almost detached too often.

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That "rumour" is really just some common sense IMO.

 

Everyone knows about the players-only meeting last year. That's not new.

 

It's also pretty well known that the Flames need to trade an LW at some point. Three LW will get big deals next season. It won't be Mangiapane and if Gaudreau extension talks progress, then it's Tkachuk you are dealing.

 

It makes sense that Buffalo wouldn't want Tkachuk, because there's a good chance he wouldn't sign there. However, I'm not sure why they wouldn't take him and then flip him for even more high-end assets. If they ate 2M making his cap hit 5, they could get a haul.

 

If the Flames were to move Tkachuk to STL for Parayko. I would be worried. Parayko is a very good player, but the defence market has exploded. It would take an extra couple million tacked on ton his aav to get him to re-sign. 

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10 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If the Flames were to move Tkachuk to STL for Parayko. I would be worried. Parayko is a very good player, but the defence market has exploded. It would take an extra couple million tacked on ton his aav to get him to re-sign. 

Straight across? I don't understand...that's not even a maybe.

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2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

You realize Thomas for Tkachuk is a straight across deal? He is St Loo's franchise center for the future. Think a 22yo Patrice Bergeron.

If you wanna do that deal and no Eichel I'll listen. If they throw in Parayko I'd yell, "start the car".

Would instantly make Backlund tradeable for another asset.

 

I was responding to Peeps using those two to get Eichel.  I really have no idea what STL feels is their future.

I'm not sure if they know.  Did the injury affect his play after he returned?  I didn't watch any of their games.

As much as Thomas is future and Tkachuk is a winger, he has name brand to the Blues.

They love the big names; McInnis, Hull.....

 

The alternative I guess would be Kyrou, who had a healthy season.

A bit less of an unknown for salary.

 

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