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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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57 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I know I know... But nice to dream lol.

 

90% sure it's depth move only and these moves weren't related to BUF re-engaging with teams interested in Eichel.

If there is a Eichel possibility it has to be mostly roster players. The only ones with NTC protection are Lindholm, Hanfin, Anderson, Dube, Mags. Now if and its a big IF Monhan doesn't have Buffalo on his list, Than does a Monahan Anderson Pelltier and 1st get it done. It moves enough cap space out for us. Or Lindholm Hanifin Pelltier and 1st work. To me its more than fair as your getting a top center in each as well as top pairing Dman. 

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14 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

If there is a Eichel possibility it has to be mostly roster players. The only ones with NTC protection are Lindholm, Hanfin, Anderson, Dube, Mags. Now if and its a big IF Monhan doesn't have Buffalo on his list, Than does a Monahan Anderson Pelltier and 1st get it done. It moves enough cap space out for us. Or Lindholm Hanifin Pelltier and 1st work. To me its more than fair as your getting a top center in each as well as top pairing Dman. 

It’s way over payment, but Buf is looking for under 25 roster players, decent prospects and 1st round picks…something we should be looking to don too but whatever…

 

The big issue is Eichel’s health and price, also if we are being honest if your paying 10 mil for a guy who hasn’t been in the same category as Crosby, McKinnon, McDavid…and I’m not interested in excuses…but he didn’t have anyone to work with in Buf…that’s BS he had Hall, he had Reinhart and a few others…guys that a just a a good support as these other top Ctrs have had…no if he’s elite he’s gotta be able to carry a team for 10 mil and he just hasn’t…what he has done is been on par with Monahan who is 6.75 mil…

 

anyways if your trading for 10 mil

player and giving up the equivalent of 3 first round picks + he best be healthy, bans be proven to be able

to carry a team…sorry Eichel just hasn’t as isn’t that no yeah buts about it…

 

I’m pretty sure touncould

land Matthews from

Tor for a 1st, Anderson, Monahan 

Lindholm and Pelletier (or

equillivant…why not just do that, least Mathews has proven something, has carried the leafs, and he’s healthy…heck if Not the same division we could

prob Get a decent shot at McKinnon or McDavid for those pieces..

 

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2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

How in the hell does EG get 1.95? This is ridiculous! He is a sub 1M guy, 


it is a bit of an over payment, I suspect, and based on sutter’s comments, Sutter wanted him really bad…hence the over pay.  He’s definitely a Sutter type player so I suspect EG may be a good add to this team, particularly Sutter.

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3 hours ago, MP5029 said:


it is a bit of an over payment, I suspect, and based on sutter’s comments, Sutter wanted him really bad…hence the over pay.  He’s definitely a Sutter type player so I suspect EG may be a good add to this team, particularly Sutter.

 

I don't know. He got 4 a season ago, and this is a 1 year contract for a 29 year old. I think your paying a bit to keep the term at one year. 

 

Obviously he wasn't in ultra high demand or he wouldn't have signed in September. That's reflected with a sub 2m contract for only 1 season. But I am sure he had options. Nearly every team wants to add a RH shot D going into camp. 

 

He might have even taken a small pay cut to play in Calgary. He wants to redeem himself to set up for the next contract. Coming to a team where the coach wants you, and where the coach plays a style that complements you, makes sense for the player. 

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On 9/10/2021 at 1:54 PM, The_People1 said:

With the Flames signing Gudbranson and Stone... We now have 5 RD (including Welenski).

 

Makes no sense unless... BUF is asking for Rasmus Andersson and we are preparing?

 

I kind of see it more like we have one RD, Rasmus Andersson, and a lot of fringe.

 

It feels a lot like what we're doing in net, just loading up on fringe and hoping some of them fit.

 

Gudbranson is Sutter tough, but he's not Sutter defense.    It is an odd fit.

 

I fully support the acquisition of actual RD NHL defencemen and RD prospects.  This is not either, but I don't really think there is a grand plan to be honest.   Just lots of filler.

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6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I kind of see it more like we have one RD, Rasmus Andersson, and a lot of fringe.

 

It feels a lot like what we're doing in net, just loading up on fringe and hoping some of them fit.

 

Gudbranson is Sutter tough, but he's not Sutter defense.    It is an odd fit.

 

I fully support the acquisition of actual RD NHL defencemen and RD prospects.  This is not either, but I don't really think there is a grand plan to be honest.   Just lots of filler.

 

I like Andersson too.  Andersson and Hamilton are our two best RHS RD since... man, Al MacInnis?  ...Derek Morris, Dennis Wideman?  Boy, it's taken this long for the Flames to have RHS RD that it's difficult to part with them.

 

But to get Eichel... he would be our best Center since Nieuwendyk/Gilmour.  It's worth it.  And the RHS Center is a bonus as well.  Extra rare.

 

Eichel and Andersson are the same age so we're not losing out there age wise.  

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who do we have as a potential captain that would walk up to Eichel if he came here and tell him to quit his belly aching. shut his trap and get to work??but more importantly.. How would the wives and girlfriends be with his girlfriend/boyfriend whatever??

 

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15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I like Andersson too.  Andersson and Hamilton are our two best RHS RD since... man, Al MacInnis?  ...Derek Morris, Dennis Wideman?  Boy, it's taken this long for the Flames to have RHS RD that it's difficult to part with them.

 

But to get Eichel... he would be our best Center since Nieuwendyk/Gilmour.  It's worth it.  And the RHS Center is a bonus as well.  Extra rare.

 

Eichel and Andersson are the same age so we're not losing out there age wise.  

How could that be when he's no better than Mony?

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8 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

How could that be when he's no better than Mony?

 

With respect, I don't understand the Eichel comparison to Mony. If you want to point at stats over the last X years, yadda yadda, sure - I know lots of people that can make numbers work whichever way they want. So, in a different light for comparison, would Mony fetch us 4-5 quality pieces in a trade including multiple 1st round picks? No? Maybe ask yourself why. 

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1 minute ago, lou44291 said:

 

With respect, I don't understand the Eichel comparison to Mony. If you want to point at stats over the last X years, yadda yadda, sure - I know lots of people that can make numbers work whichever way they want. So, in a different light for comparison, would Mony fetch us 4-5 quality pieces in a trade including multiple 1st round picks? No? Maybe ask yourself why. 

So far Eichel hasnt either. He isnt worth the asking price and it seems the rest of the league doesnt think so either.

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23 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

How could that be when he's no better than Mony?

 

And how so?

 

Eichel's injury is the biggest concern, granted.  Other than that, he's a top 8/9/10 Center in the NHL today.  Monahan is not even our first line Center right now.  That would be Lindholm and he's like top 18/19/20 in the NHL.  

 

7 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So far Eichel hasnt either. He isnt worth the asking price and it seems the rest of the league doesnt think so either.

 

Right, and that's why we should be in it to the bitter end.  The price isn't as high as what's being asked.  BUF is not getting close to their asking price.  If we offer Andersson + 1st, then that's as good as any other offer out there (and yes we should do it).

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37 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So far Eichel hasnt either. He isnt worth the asking price and it seems the rest of the league doesnt think so either.

 

Anticipating this response, I counter with this - do you think Mony would fetch the same as Eichel? Mony has also been "available" for while... 

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50 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

Anticipating this response, I counter with this - do you think Mony would fetch the same as Eichel? Mony has also been "available" for while... 

Prob not but no one will know until Eichel does move.  Someone will overpay, I just dont want it to be the Flames.

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57 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

 

Anticipating this response, I counter with this - do you think Mony would fetch the same as Eichel? Mony has also been "available" for while... 

The big difference is:

 

1. Monahan is being dangled to see his value, Cgy is not actually trying to unload or move on from, and because of this, they just haven’t seen the value in moving him as he’s MORE valuable where he is at the price they pay him…he’s got a health issue that’s kinda minor but is effecting what he worth in trade right now..or maybe minor but like Eichel, I suspect it’s lowering his value greater than what keeping him would be…at least for now, after surgery and a good first 1/2 of the season is suspect he could be traded easily for a value that Cgy is willing to move him for…

 

2. Eichel is paid a lot to be an elite carry the team Francine Ctr, he hasn’t done that and they are asking the equivalent to 4x1st rounders…and he’s asked to be moved, and he’s got a very major health issue…now like Monahan, after surgery and a good start well then maybe 

 

the difference is Cgy is getting lowball offers whereas Buf is asking a kings  ransom for a guy that’s way over paid for what he’s produced…

 

put it this way, for 10 mil I expect Crosby or McKinnon…for 6.75 I expect Monahan…Eichel has not even hit Monahan production but is paid at a Crosby/McKinnon level…argue yeh but it was on Buf all you want he had an amazing wingman in Reinhart and still failed to produce Monahan numbers period…I’d argue Reinhart is a more complete player than Gaudreau and overall better and as such, or even if lest say Reinhart is only just as good as Gaudreau, in either case, Eichel should have been better, at 10 mil per, if not at least equal Monahan…but he has not and looking at this logic, this is exactly why he’s not been traded yet and why, when he is traded it’s going to shock people at how much less of a return it is than what Buf is asking for…it’s also why if

Monahan is traded, it’s gonna be mid season or TDL and provided he’s healed back up property he’s gonna have a great season and fetch a good first+  
 

anyway the point is Eichel is paid and expected to be the franchise guy, he’s not been capable of that on Buf…more will he be anywhere els, he’s at best a younger 10 mil Monahan…so why spend more for the same and throwaway 3-4x first round picks? It’s just bad business and that’s why he’s still in Buf and why he will be till the cost of acquiring him is sensible which at this point would be a conditional 1st and prospect (injury makes the 1st conditional…he prospect is paying for him hitting hit potential as an elite Ctr) 

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

And how so?

 

Eichel's injury is the biggest concern, granted.  Other than that, he's a top 8/9/10 Center in the NHL today.  Monahan is not even our first line Center right now.  That would be Lindholm and he's like top 18/19/20 in the NHL.  

 

 

Right, and that's why we should be in it to the bitter end.  The price isn't as high as what's being asked.  BUF is not getting close to their asking price.  If we offer Andersson + 1st, then that's as good as any other offer out there (and yes we should do it).

Numbers and proven performance.  I'm not saying Mony is the better overall player but you cant rob the present and futures for someone who MIGHT reach their potential next season. If it goes wrong the team is hooped for a long long time.

 

With all the speculation of next years draft class I dont see how anyone would want to include early round 2022s.

 

 

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7 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Numbers and proven performance.  I'm not saying Mony is the better overall player but you cant rob the present and futures for someone who MIGHT reach their potential next season. If it goes wrong the team is hooped for a long long time.

 

With all the speculation of next years draft class I dont see how anyone would want to include early round 2022s.

 

Can you show the numbers?  Eichel, by the same age, has more points and more point per game seasons.  He's played on a team with a lot less talent as well.

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13 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Numbers and proven performance.  I'm not saying Mony is the better overall player but you cant rob the present and futures for someone who MIGHT reach their potential next season. If it goes wrong the team is hooped for a long long time.

 

With all the speculation of next years draft class I dont see how anyone would want to include early round 2022s.

 

Eichel is better.  A rough 'tier' of Cs looks something like:

 

  1. McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Crosby, Draisaitl
  2. Bergeron, Eichel, Shcheifele, Barkov, Aho
  3. Point, Tavares, Malkin, O'Reilly, Pettersson, Kopitar, Backstrom, a few others
  4. Monahan along with a rather large list.  I would put Lindholm here as well if he plays C.  

 

You can shuffle a few guys around the list I guess, but Eichel is levels above Monahan.  Injury is a concern for Eichel for sure, but it is for Monahan as well.  Monahan put up fewer points then Backlund last year, and that was his second season in decline.  

 

I certainly understand the concern about giving up futures, especially from a team that may need to rebuild or retool soon, but I look at it this way.  In 2013 Feaster offered three first round picks, one the 6 OA, for MacKinnon.  It took MacKinnon 5 years to really find his groove (bringing him roughly to the age Eichel is now).  That trade would have amounted to Monahan, Klimchuk, and Poirier for MacKinnon.  This is an opportunity to do the same to get an elite C, but this time one that is just entering his prime.  

 

Look at it another way.  The Flames spend years in a rebuild and came out with Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Hanafin, and a few D with potential.  Gaudreau is the oldest guy on that last and he just turned 28.  The Flames can spend 5 years rebuilding again hoping they get luckier then last time (and hope they get an Eichel caliber C).  Or potentially they could add one of the elite Cs, possibly without even losing any of the core pieces listed above.  

 

A final way to look at it.  The Flames likely will not rebuild.  The ownership drug their feet as long as possible last time with a core much older and much less competitive then the one we have.  We have already heard they are trying to extend Gaudreau, and we saw this summer that they didn't trade anyone.  This time they have a new arena on the way.  Even if a rebuild was the right and best chance, if the Flames won't do it then it doesn't matter.  In which case fixing your biggest hole makes sense. 

 

I know the price for Eichel is 4 1st round picks or equivalent.  But nobody is paying that which is why we are talkin about this in September.  Whatever it comes too, the Flames should be making a serious offer for him.  You have a bunch of high caliber D ready to break out, a couple of strong goalie options, and some value wingers you can use to further tweak the team if necessary.  The Flames could use what they have and retool over the next 2 seasons and come out a contender.  Are there risks?  Sure.  But a rebuild is at least as big of risk, and staying the course is a guarantee not to contend.  

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7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Can you show the numbers?  Eichel, by the same age, has more points and more point per game seasons.  He's played on a team with a lot less talent as well.

 Mony has more total points over the first 6 seasons of each ones career. (363 vs. 355) .  JEs PPG average is much better but it didnt benefit the Sabres when he missed +20% more games due to injury. 

 

Those are not #s that justify the 5 year/ $10 mil salary AND the cost of acquisition.

 

        

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6 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

 Mony has more total points over the first 6 seasons of each ones career. (363 vs. 355) .  JEs PPG average is much better but it didnt benefit the Sabres when he missed +20% more games due to injury. 

 

Those are not #s that justify the 5 year/ $10 mil salary AND the cost of acquisition.

 

        

 

The past season was shortened though and Eichel only played 21 games.  Like you said, on a per game basis, Eichel is better.

 

When we talk about the extreme upper tier of players in this league, you start paying 40% more for that extra 10% of production.  It's free market forces playing out here.

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46 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

 


Well, if it wasn’t clear before it’s clear now that “anywhere but Buffalo” is acceptable to Eichel. I’d still like to be that “anywhere” destination, and given that Eichel will miss a chunk of the season, I lean more towards Chucky going the other way than Monahan. LW is a position we are overloaded with. How much stronger would the flames be if we had Lindholm, Mony, Backlund, and Eichel down the middle? Could Lindholm return to RW with an Eichel acquisition and better balance our lines? One would think so. Eichel’s LTIR would also afford the flames additional cap space to load up before the playoffs 👀

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3 minutes ago, lou44291 said:


Well, if it wasn’t clear before it’s clear now that “anywhere but Buffalo” is acceptable to Eichel. I’d still like to be that “anywhere” destination, and given that Eichel will miss a chunk of the season, I lean more towards Chucky going the other way than Monahan. LW is a position we are overloaded with. How much stronger would the flames be if we had Lindholm, Mony, Backlund, and Eichel down the middle? Could Lindholm return to RW with an Eichel acquisition and better balance our lines? One would think so. Eichel’s LTIR would also afford the flames additional cap space to load up before the playoffs 👀

 

It's almost to the point where it's Tkachuk for Eichel straight up.

Obviously, that doesn't work for us with the exception that he would be on LTIR until healthy.

We would need to either send another contract the other way or a separate deal where salary gets moves for a pick or prospect.

 

Tkachuk + Dube seems like an overpay.

Perhaps Tkachuk + Gudbranson as a throwaway contract.

Or just Tkachuk, where we trade Dube to another for a 2nd + top prospect (waiver exempt). 

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18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's almost to the point where it's Tkachuk for Eichel straight up.

Obviously, that doesn't work for us with the exception that he would be on LTIR until healthy.

We would need to either send another contract the other way or a separate deal where salary gets moves for a pick or prospect.

 

Tkachuk + Dube seems like an overpay.

Perhaps Tkachuk + Gudbranson as a throwaway contract.

Or just Tkachuk, where we trade Dube to another for a 2nd + top prospect (waiver exempt). 

Lol I was just on CapFriendly working out something similar TD. 
 

We still have Stone in the ranks and I’m not a fan of Gudbranson either… so, if Buffalo is sticking to their requirement of at least 5 pieces:

Chucky

Gudbranson

Kylington (because the Flames don’t like him)

Ritchie

And if we have to include a pick, maybe our 2nd rounder or the one we acquired from FLA for Bennett. 
 

If we can keep our picks, then I’d put NO CONDITIONS on the trade. There’s risk on both sides of the equation with Chucky (does he re-sign in Buffalo after RFA?) and Eichel (does he play to the level he’s capable of for the 4.5 years left on his contract?) So why not exploit an edge in negotiations and be the team that gives Buffalo no conditions on the trade? Sometimes you gotta push your chips in the middle with a pair of 5s to win the pot, and I’m not suggesting Chucky is a pair of 5s.
 

 I’m willing to do this because I don’t see Chucky as a game breaker. I love his moxy and attitude, but I love the idea of an elite center more and I’m willing to gamble on that. Plus, LTIR will give us an opportunity to pickup a good D for playoffs as well. The Eichel effect will make some players see us as a better destination for themselves. 
 

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44 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's almost to the point where it's Tkachuk for Eichel straight up.

Obviously, that doesn't work for us with the exception that he would be on LTIR until healthy.

We would need to either send another contract the other way or a separate deal where salary gets moves for a pick or prospect.

 

 


Come to think of it TD. Doesn’t the above have the makings of the Tampa Bay - Kucherov shenanigans they pulled? Trading Chucky for Eichel doesn’t really require more going to Buffalo cap wise. Eichel is going straight onto LTIR and essentially we free up $7m. When Eichel is ready to return, we’ll have to do something, yes, but there’s time there to make additional moves, and doesn’t our cap grow because of Eichel’s LTIR? Just spitballing, but maybe Monahan becomes available if Eichel is expected to make a full recovery… Or, maybe we keep Monahan and Eichel joins us for game one of playoffs - so he doesn’t count against the cap at all. it’s been done before… 👀

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