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Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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8 minutes ago, lou44291 said:


Come to think of it TD. Doesn’t the above have the makings of the Tampa Bay - Kucherov shenanigans they pulled? Trading Chucky for Eichel doesn’t really require more going to Buffalo cap wise. Eichel is going straight onto LTIR and essentially we free up $7m. When Eichel is ready to return, we’ll have to do something, yes, but there’s time there to make additional moves. Just spitballing, but maybe Monahan becomes available if Eichel is expected to make a full recovery… Or, maybe we keep Monahan and Eichel joins us for game one of playoffs - so he doesn’t count against the cap at all. it’s been done before… 👀

 

I don't see Eichel missing more than October and November.

Back in shape by December.

So, the LTIR thing does need to consider what we move out to get under the cap.

 

On second though, I might actually be willing to consider Dube in the deal, but we get a pick or prospect in exchange.

I don't include conditions of play in the deal.

Perhaps we add in Kylington to sweeten the pot.

 

I'm really hesitant to trade Dube.  I don't know if he will be better than Mangiapane or not.

The problem I have is that he is another winger that we don't have room for in the top 6.

He could be passed by Pelletier and/or Zary in less than a year.

Or Tato in 2 years.

 

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3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't see Eichel missing more than October and November.

Back in shape by December.

So, the LTIR thing does need to consider what we move out to get under the cap.

 

On second though, I might actually be willing to consider Dube in the deal, but we get a pick or prospect in exchange.

I don't include conditions of play in the deal.

Perhaps we add in Kylington to sweeten the pot.

 

I'm really hesitant to trade Dube.  I don't know if he will be better than Mangiapane or not.

The problem I have is that he is another winger that we don't have room for in the top 6.

He could be passed by Pelletier and/or Zary in less than a year.

Or Tato in 2 years.

 

I heard yesterday that Eichel is pissed that he won’t be able to participate in the olympics in Feb. if that’s the case, I don’t see how he’d be back in shape by December. I think it’s longer. 
 

Dube has a nice 3 year low $ contract. I’d prefer to hold on to him. But if it makes or breaks the deal, and doesn’t include picks, so be it. Maybe him and Kyller can go. 

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6 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

I heard yesterday that Eichel is pissed that he won’t be able to participate in the olympics in Feb. if that’s the case, I don’t see how he’d be back in shape by December. I think it’s longer. 
 

Dube has a nice 3 year low $ contract. I’d prefer to hold on to him. But if it makes or breaks the deal, and doesn’t include picks, so be it. Maybe him and Kyller can go. 

 

If that's the case. it may be because he is not yet healthy and the USA like to have the roster set early on.

I find it odd that they would reject him this early.

He would be one of the top USA players in that position.

It's easy enough to have him on the roster, and replace him at the last minute.

Unless they consider his play to be at risk.

If that's the case, there may be things about his injury we may not know.

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5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If that's the case. it may be because he is not yet healthy and the USA like to have the roster set early on.

I find it odd that they would reject him this early.

He would be one of the top USA players in that position.

It's easy enough to have him on the roster, and replace him at the last minute.

Unless they consider his play to be at risk.

If that's the case, there may be things about his injury we may not know.

 

ok.

 

I am totally confused why anyone ever thought he was going to be cleared to play.     Conditioning aside,

 

How does that conversation go exactly?

 

"Oh yes I see that the disc in your neck vertebrae which keeps your head on top of your body and attaches your brain to your spinal cord, is busted and needs replacing.    Other than that you're good, enjoy the hockey season"

 

what are we even talking about

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1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok.

 

I am totally confused why anyone ever thought he was going to be cleared to play.     Conditioning aside,

 

How does that conversation go exactly?

 

"Oh yes I see that the disc in your neck vertebrae which keeps your head on top of your body and attaches your brain to your spinal cord, is busted and needs replacing.    Other than that you're good, enjoy the hockey season"

 

what are we even talking about

 

We have come so far from the early days of medicine (leeching, balance of elements, etc).

Bladerunner decided to go to the Olympics with no legs as a sprinter (and later a murderer).

Wonder how that conversation went.

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On 9/13/2021 at 9:50 AM, kehatch said:

 

Eichel is better.  A rough 'tier' of Cs looks something like:

 

  1. McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Crosby, Draisaitl
  2. Bergeron, Eichel, Shcheifele, Barkov, Aho
  3. Point, Tavares, Malkin, O'Reilly, Pettersson, Kopitar, Backstrom, a few others
  4. Monahan along with a rather large list.  I would put Lindholm here as well if he plays C.  

 

You can shuffle a few guys around the list I guess, but Eichel is levels above Monahan.  Injury is a concern for Eichel for sure, but it is for Monahan as well.  Monahan put up fewer points then Backlund last year, and that was his second season in decline.  

 

I certainly understand the concern about giving up futures, especially from a team that may need to rebuild or retool soon, but I look at it this way.  In 2013 Feaster offered three first round picks, one the 6 OA, for MacKinnon.  It took MacKinnon 5 years to really find his groove (bringing him roughly to the age Eichel is now).  That trade would have amounted to Monahan, Klimchuk, and Poirier for MacKinnon.  This is an opportunity to do the same to get an elite C, but this time one that is just entering his prime.  

 

Look at it another way.  The Flames spend years in a rebuild and came out with Monahan, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Hanafin, and a few D with potential.  Gaudreau is the oldest guy on that last and he just turned 28.  The Flames can spend 5 years rebuilding again hoping they get luckier then last time (and hope they get an Eichel caliber C).  Or potentially they could add one of the elite Cs, possibly without even losing any of the core pieces listed above.  

 

A final way to look at it.  The Flames likely will not rebuild.  The ownership drug their feet as long as possible last time with a core much older and much less competitive then the one we have.  We have already heard they are trying to extend Gaudreau, and we saw this summer that they didn't trade anyone.  This time they have a new arena on the way.  Even if a rebuild was the right and best chance, if the Flames won't do it then it doesn't matter.  In which case fixing your biggest hole makes sense. 

 

I know the price for Eichel is 4 1st round picks or equivalent.  But nobody is paying that which is why we are talkin about this in September.  Whatever it comes too, the Flames should be making a serious offer for him.  You have a bunch of high caliber D ready to break out, a couple of strong goalie options, and some value wingers you can use to further tweak the team if necessary.  The Flames could use what they have and retool over the next 2 seasons and come out a contender.  Are there risks?  Sure.  But a rebuild is at least as big of risk, and staying the course is a guarantee not to contend.  

I would have to disagree on your idea of tiers for the Ctrs…

 

There are:

 

1. Superstars or generational players…Marner’s, McKinnon’s, Mcdavid’s, Crosby’s etc… not many of these guys in the NHL very rare and not many teams have them.

 

2. star players…Monahan, O’Riley’s and Lindholm’s (potential to move up, not likely) and at present Eichle (potential to move up yes) these are your solid 2nd liners and or able To handle first line…most of your NHL first liner Ctrs..as the top level is a rare breed.

 

3. Average to above average…kinda the Backlund’s and Bennett’s you 3rd liners and guys able to fill in on the 2nd line of the NHL would be above average and Richardson’s mostly your 4th liners.  Backlund is kinda an odd one, in a good way, he has all skills and abilities to be a solid 3rd but his puck possession give him top like PK…with some Offensive ability boarding on 2nd line…again odd in a really good way.

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10 hours ago, sak22 said:

 

 

 

This has been my thoughts from the beginning.  The 1st round picks have to come with conditions that Eichel is "healthy" after surgery... at least that he can't miss games due to his neck.  If so, then the 1st round picks become 2nds or 3rds.

 

Obviously, he's already going to miss half the season now so, a 2022 1st round pick has to be on condition he finishes this season without neck problems.  And then, if there's a 1st round pick 2023, same thing.  

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I see Brown was traded from Ott to Stl for Sanford…

 

seems Brown is a player we should have been in on…anyway…

 

I’m sure there are others like Brown on other teams we should be looking at, young talented big 1st rounder (not sure how Brown’s skating is), anyway maybe there are some gems to be had on other teams that are just too fast down the depth chart that we could nab? 

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On 9/24/2021 at 7:32 PM, The_People1 said:

 

This has been my thoughts from the beginning.  The 1st round picks have to come with conditions that Eichel is "healthy" after surgery... at least that he can't miss games due to his neck.  If so, then the 1st round picks become 2nds or 3rds.

 

Obviously, he's already going to miss half the season now so, a 2022 1st round pick has to be on condition he finishes this season without neck problems.  And then, if there's a 1st round pick 2023, same thing.  

I’d go even further. Tkachuk + Zary + 2022 conditional 1st + 2023 conditional 1st for Eichel + 2022 conditional 3rd + 2023 conditional 3rd. Conditions as follows:

 

Flames 2022 first is conditional on Eichel playing at least 41 games this season, and is lottery protected, otherwise this becomes a 2022 second rounder.

Flames 2023 first is conditional on Eichel playing at least 70 games and scoring 50 points. Otherwise this is a 2nd rounder.

Sabres 2022 3rd becomes a 2nd if Eichel plays less than 41 games this season. It becomes a 1st if Eichel misses the whole season.

Sabres 2023 3rd becomes a 2nd if Eichel plays less than 41 games, and a 1st if he plays less than 20 or puts up less than 40 points.

 

These conditions give us some protection in the event that Eichel is unable to recover. 

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How many Fans really think that Eic will end up here? I for one highly doubt it we are probably one of the teams that are on his no trade list and even if we weren't why would you think BT would even consider given up what you suggest ? We will never see Eic in a Flames Jersey I just don't see it no way Management would spend 10 Mil on a player. Why would they the fans will show up no matter what this franchise spends sure they spend to the limit but not on one player they spend on a ton of bottom feeders don't understand why but that's all we have seen since BT took over hopefully Cole will be a quality player and change our luck in the UFA spending.  

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26 minutes ago, zima said:

How many Fans really think that Eic will end up here? I for one highly doubt it we are probably one of the teams that are on his no trade list and even if we weren't why would you think BT would even consider given up what you suggest ? We will never see Eic in a Flames Jersey I just don't see it no way Management would spend 10 Mil on a player. Why would they the fans will show up no matter what this franchise spends sure they spend to the limit but not on one player they spend on a ton of bottom feeders don't understand why but that's all we have seen since BT took over hopefully Cole will be a quality player and change our luck in the UFA spending.  

Let's not forget that no other team has acquired him either. Buffalo wants the value of a healthy Eichel and everyone knows that's ludicrous.

Can we trade 2018 Monahan?lol

Screw the whole debacle.

Let's see a healthy Mony this year. It would make a big difference to our O.

I still think he should be captain. He said last year's hip was around game 6. He had 7pts in the first 5. I think he can be a ppg player.

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21 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Let's not forget that no other team has acquired him either. Buffalo wants the value of a healthy Eichel and everyone knows that's ludicrous.

Can we trade 2018 Monahan?lol

Screw the whole debacle.

Let's see a healthy Mony this year. It would make a big difference to our O.

I still think he should be captain. He said last year's hip was around game 6. He had 7pts in the first 5. I think he can be a ppg player.


my only issue with Monny now is that he is such a team player that he plays through it. I am actually quite tired of it. Is he the best option at whatever % he’s at health wise? But there is the issue, the depth isn’t there to offset his injuries. He’s had many! 
 

maybe not a problem because they’re not recurring, but they are a problem because he waits it out before off-season and doesn’t allow him to work on his game… 

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2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:


my only issue with Monny now is that he is such a team player that he plays through it. I am actually quite tired of it. Is he the best option at whatever % he’s at health wise? But there is the issue, the depth isn’t there to offset his injuries. He’s had many! 
 

maybe not a problem because they’re not recurring, but they are a problem because he waits it out before off-season and doesn’t allow him to work on his game… 

Did you watch his presser? Very forthcoming. "I put on the equipment and went out there, so I'm not making excuses".

Was it his call or the team's? Fighting for a playoff spot so he kept trying. His biggest weapon is his shot, so it's sad that's what was affected the most.

I'm not a fan of trading him. Injuries have hampered him. And it's not like he doesn't know that it's been disappointing. 

Hip, shoulder, wrist. Hopefully he's now fully healthy and learned from those injuries.

We talk about players wanting to be here. He's one that does. Hopefully him and Johnny get back to ham and cheese.

Mony's  injuries affect Johnny too.

More Moneyhands, goodbye injuries.

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3 hours ago, robrob74 said:


my only issue with Monny now is that he is such a team player that he plays through it. I am actually quite tired of it. Is he the best option at whatever % he’s at health wise? But there is the issue, the depth isn’t there to offset his injuries. He’s had many! 
 

maybe not a problem because they’re not recurring, but they are a problem because he waits it out before off-season and doesn’t allow him to work on his game… 

I don't like saying its a Monahan problem, or a Flames problem.  Shea Weber may never play again, but somehow he was good  for 25 mins for the Habs in the finals, I don't think Carey Price is failing physicals because of his offseason activities, he was still who Montreal rode to the cup.  I think its just how players are programmed especially the Canadians, it comes with glorification of guys like Bobby Baun scoring a goal on a broken leg or Steve Yzerman leading the Wings on 2 bad knees, nobody cares about the teams who've lost playing guys that shouldn't be playing.  It's easier for hockey people to make Paul Kariya a hero for scoring a goal after Stevens concussed him, than to admit that it is completely f'd up that he was even allowed to return to that game.  Players, management and owners only seem to care about present day with player health, I don't think its up to Monahan to change that.

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6 hours ago, ABC923 said:

I’d go even further. Tkachuk + Zary + 2022 conditional 1st + 2023 conditional 1st for Eichel + 2022 conditional 3rd + 2023 conditional 3rd. Conditions as follows:

 

Flames 2022 first is conditional on Eichel playing at least 41 games this season, and is lottery protected, otherwise this becomes a 2022 second rounder.

Flames 2023 first is conditional on Eichel playing at least 70 games and scoring 50 points. Otherwise this is a 2nd rounder.

Sabres 2022 3rd becomes a 2nd if Eichel plays less than 41 games this season. It becomes a 1st if Eichel misses the whole season.

Sabres 2023 3rd becomes a 2nd if Eichel plays less than 41 games, and a 1st if he plays less than 20 or puts up less than 40 points.

 

These conditions give us some protection in the event that Eichel is unable to recover. 

 

Ya anything like that would work to give us protection from total disaster.  If BUF is worried about the surgery then it's fair that every other team feels the same.

 

Not sure Tkachuk moves the needle anymore as he can take a 1-year QO and then go UFA... Unless BUF offer sheets Brady successfully to bring the brothers together.  Otherwise, BUF shouldn't be interested in Tkachuk.  

 

I'm really believing Rasmus Andersson is the key.  BUF needs RHS RD with top pair potential.  Dahlin is a Swede and Andersson is a Swede.  It could work well for them.  The Flames will run with Tanev, Gudbranson, and Stone on RD.  Still have Welinksi as insurance plus Zadorov, Valimaki or Kylington can play RD in a pinch.  Cap wise, Eichel is on LTIR for half the season so we save on cap space.

 

Andersson +

2022 1st (condition based on games played)

2023 1st (condition based on games played)

 

No lottery protection because Andersson is not a star player yet.  But picks turn into 3rd or 4th rounders if Eichel struggles with neck injuries.

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4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Let's not forget that no other team has acquired him either. Buffalo wants the value of a healthy Eichel and everyone knows that's ludicrous.

Can we trade 2018 Monahan?lol

Screw the whole debacle.

Let's see a healthy Mony this year. It would make a big difference to our O.

I still think he should be captain. He said last year's hip was around game 6. He had 7pts in the first 5. I think he can be a ppg player.

 

We can get Eichel and still see if Monahan can comeback strong.  Events are not mutually exclusive.  Unlikely BUF wants Monahan in an Eichel trade.  We also don't need to move Monahan to make cap space this season with Eichel sitting on LTIR for half the season.

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Eichel is risk. He took Buffalo nowhere.

Maybe he's not so amazing. Particularly injured and whiny.

I'm thinking no thanks.

 

 

We are going nowhere with the same team and same core again, so.  Let's try something. Give Monahan-Gaudreau a chance to bounce back together but also give Tkachuk a true #1 Center to play with.  Lindholm moves back to RW where he is a top 5 RW in the NHL.

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18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We are going nowhere with the same team and same core again, so.  Let's try something. Give Monahan-Gaudreau a chance to bounce back together but also give Tkachuk a true #1 Center to play with.  Lindholm moves back to RW where he is a top 5 RW in the NHL.

Dustin Brown is the missing link on the Jonny/Mony line

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5 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

Dustin Brown is the missing link on the Jonny/Mony line

 

It's not 2015 anymore though.  Dustin Brown is turning 37 in November.

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19 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's not 2015 anymore though.  Dustin Brown is turning 37 in November.

Brown also had the C stripped from him while Sutter was the coach. Should also be noted that Brown revitalized his career when Sutter left town.

 

Not a fit at all

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Does any one here think BT will ever take a chance on a trade that will make us better he has tried a couple of times and we didn't get any better and lost a few first round seconds and thirds for Harmonic who didn't do much and decided not to be there for this team when we needed him and the next yr signed with Van so I think the Covid excuse was just that because the threat is still there but he played last yr any way my point is if we are going to get better the first thing we need to do is drop BT and find a Manager who is willing to make us better if that is even possible. We have MrT JH Mony Lindholm and after that we have nothing that any team would want saying that I guess answers my question BT has nothing to trade unless he wants to get fleeced my bad better keep to myself again lol 

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41 minutes ago, zima said:

Does any one here think BT will ever take a chance on a trade that will make us better he has tried a couple of times and we didn't get any better and lost a few first round seconds and thirds for Harmonic who didn't do much and decided not to be there for this team when we needed him and the next yr signed with Van so I think the Covid excuse was just that because the threat is still there but he played last yr any way my point is if we are going to get better the first thing we need to do is drop BT and find a Manager who is willing to make us better if that is even possible. We have MrT JH Mony Lindholm and after that we have nothing that any team would want saying that I guess answers my question BT has nothing to trade unless he wants to get fleeced my bad better keep to myself again lol 


 

im within you… so I understand the frustration. We want a trade to get better but then the value pieces we have are apparently with $0.50 on the $1. Apparently it’s not a traders market. I get he’s at a weakness in this as most of the team underperformed not only last year, but in the two previous years/playoffs. 
 

the Hamonic deal scares me off of him making deals like that. Plus, I like the Coleman deal, but I’d have liked him to sign someone with the added Gio cap. I think losing Gio hurts in the immediate but should be better for the long term. There are holes, so BT had to fill some. Hope they’re not just the annual bandaids we’ve seen that do nothing for the team. 
 

I don’t see us having enough for the Eichel deal. Nor do I want to give those prices. Although, if we want to keep Tkachuk or Gaudreau, one ir the other, it would make sense to go for an Eichel. I only bring it up because not often those players come up in trade. How often does a Forsberg get dealt to the Preds or that kind of deal? Happens.

 

but you’re right, some tries he made failed and I think sometimes he might hang around too long in deals and possibly misses on others.
 

 

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On 9/26/2021 at 4:02 PM, The_People1 said:

 

We can get Eichel and still see if Monahan can comeback strong.  Events are not mutually exclusive.  Unlikely BUF wants Monahan in an Eichel trade.  We also don't need to move Monahan to make cap space this season with Eichel sitting on LTIR for half the season.

There is a reason why Buffalo won't show potential trade partners the health records of Eichel. They are talking fusing the disc in his neck which he doesn't like or want because he wants to play and participate in Olympics.

 

There are only a handful of teams with cap space that can make a deal now without gutting their teams. 

 

With the serious health issues hanging over his head it is little wonder no deals have been done at the asking price for him.

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