Jump to content
The Official Site of the Calgary Flames
Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

Recommended Posts

Yes retained salary. Say you can move all 3 in this way, what amount weighs against our cap totals, anything ? or the retained portion for the balance of their contracts ?

 

What ever number you choose to retain stays on your cap hit for the duration of the contract.

 

For example if the Flames retain 1 mill of Raymond's 3.125 then they would have a 1 million cap hit this season while clearing 2.125. If they retain 1 mill of Stajan's 3.125 they have a 1 million cap hit for this season and next season until Stajan becomes a UFA. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking about a trade with Arizona and if we did win the lottery and 1st over all.

 

to Ari.

1st OA

Wideman

Rammond

 

to Cal.

Ari 1st rnd pick

Rangers 1st rnd Pick

Christian Fischer RW 19 YO 6.1 212

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/christian-fischer

 

We now have potentially 3 1st rnd picks and cap space to bring in a goalie and a RW. I also see Christian as a top 6 in a year or 2.

 

Ari is not giving up too much for the rights to pick mathews.

 

I'd do it.

I'm not as enamored of Matthews as some & unlike those on the Oilers board you aren't asking for OEL.

'Yotes pick looks like #6, Rags will be late teens or early twenties while Fischer was #32 OA with power forward probabilities.

Arizona adds their probable top center without giving up roster players.

 

Raymond is a pure cap dump but Wideman will fit their defence.

For those that say it's 2 cap dumps remember both only have 1 year to run.

 

I call it a good, realistic proposal. Sounds like a hockey trade to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking about a trade with Arizona and if we did win the lottery and 1st over all.

 

to Ari.

1st OA

Wideman

Rammond

 

to Cal.

Ari 1st rnd pick

Rangers 1st rnd Pick

Christian Fischer RW 19 YO 6.1 212

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/christian-fischer

 

We now have potentially 3 1st rnd picks and cap space to bring in a goalie and a RW. I also see Christian as a top 6 in a year or 2.

 

Ari is not giving up too much for the rights to pick mathews.

 

 

 

I don't think its the worst trade by any means and quite frankily out of the trades proposed (including my own) it actually has potential to be discussed.

 

That being said the only way I would ever do this deal is if Flames were 1 and Coyotes were 2 and Coyotes were to take Mathews. I think the gap between Mathews and Laine has closed enough for me to lower what I would be willing to accept in trade. I would want Dvorak instead of Fisher though. I like Fisher,but I think Dvorak is a better fit for what the Flames need. 

 

However, I would only drop from 1 to 2. 1 down to anything else the price would go up substantially more. I'm not missing a chance to draft Mathews or Laine over anyone else for a couple of cap dumps and picks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just think we can get most of that deal without adding Wideman and Raymond to it.

I believe Wideman and (maybe) Stajan to be tradeable without retained salary.

Raymond, I dunno, but with one year left in his deal, could be moveable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just think we can get most of that deal without adding Wideman and Raymond to it.

I believe Wideman and (maybe) Stajan to be tradeable without retained salary.

Raymond, I dunno, but with one year left in his deal, could be moveable.

We are all guessing with respect to how moveable some of these players are given they are deemed overpaid. As a GM, BT has to do what is best for progressing the team and should be prepared to use his full arsenal in order to achieve the desired results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think its the worst trade by any means and quite frankily out of the trades proposed (including my own) it actually has potential to be discussed.

 

That being said the only way I would ever do this deal is if Flames were 1 and Coyotes were 2 and Coyotes were to take Mathews. I think the gap between Mathews and Laine has closed enough for me to lower what I would be willing to accept in trade. I would want Dvorak instead of Fisher though. I like Fisher,but I think Dvorak is a better fit for what the Flames need. 

 

However, I would only drop from 1 to 2. 1 down to anything else the price would go up substantially more. I'm not missing a chance to draft Mathews or Laine over anyone else for a couple of cap dumps and picks. 

That was my biggest problem with it.  Whether or not Matthews is the big prize, it makes no sense to give up a 1st overall to dump contracts.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just think we can get most of that deal without adding Wideman and Raymond to it.

I believe Wideman and (maybe) Stajan to be tradeable without retained salary.

Raymond, I dunno, but with one year left in his deal, could be moveable.

 

 

That was my biggest problem with it.  Whether or not Matthews is the big prize, it makes no sense to give up a 1st overall to dump contracts.  

 

if its a situation where you are 1 and Coytoes are 2 I don't think realistically you are getting much more than a 1st and a very good prospect out of the Coyotoes. Laine has closed the gap on Mathews and it seems like a lot more chatter has this as more of a 1A 1B draft than a clear cut number one so I think if you are thinking you are getting Domi, Duclain or OEL I don't think there is any chance. 

 

The only reason i would consider making the deal is if its 1-2 and the Flames can still get Laine. I fully agree with both of you that moving down anything further is not worth it, but to draft Laine, remove almost 9 mill in cap room and get another mid round first and Dvorak, i'm fine with that. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if its a situation where you are 1 and Coytoes are 2 I don't think realistically you are getting much more than a 1st and a very good prospect out of the Coyotoes. Laine has closed the gap on Mathews and it seems like a lot more chatter has this as more of a 1A 1B draft than a clear cut number one so I think if you are thinking you are getting Domi, Duclain or OEL I don't think there is any chance. 

 

The only reason i would consider making the deal is if its 1-2 and the Flames can still get Laine. I fully agree with both of you that moving down anything further is not worth it, but to draft Laine, remove almost 9 mill in cap room and get another mid round first and Dvorak, i'm fine with that. 

 

You know, it's funny but I had suggested awhile ago that if we were #1 and the Yotes ended up #2 that we consider a trade of #1 for #2 + Dvorak or Strome + a roster player.  If they did #2 + Strome + Dvorak for Wideman + #1 would that be enough?  A lot of prospects, but I do like Strome's game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if its a situation where you are 1 and Coytoes are 2 I don't think realistically you are getting much more than a 1st and a very good prospect out of the Coyotoes. Laine has closed the gap on Mathews and it seems like a lot more chatter has this as more of a 1A 1B draft than a clear cut number one so I think if you are thinking you are getting Domi, Duclain or OEL I don't think there is any chance.

The only reason i would consider making the deal is if its 1-2 and the Flames can still get Laine. I fully agree with both of you that moving down anything further is not worth it, but to draft Laine, remove almost 9 mill in cap room and get another mid round first and Dvorak, i'm fine with that.

I just think you're negotiating at a place of weakness when you're trying to add salary dumps and I think Wideman is a strong enough player to warrant a deal on his own. Unless he is a player the other team wants, then fine.

I get what you're getting at though.

It'll be interesting.

I almost feel like the Flames deserve a lottery win into the Top3, but I won't bank on it. Very wishful thinking. It's exciting to see who we are going to get.

I really hope we can draft an energy guy soon though. It's something we lack in the bottom 6. Bennett tried being that guy this year, but it's hard when one guy is trying to do it on his own.

Bouma couldn't because of injuries and Hathaway will add to that in the next year or two,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with you - it's wishful thinking. That said, I really do feel like they deserve a Finnish winger. They're an honest team, and they refused to mail it in. I like that about them, and I've liked it every year. It'd be great to see some luck in the lottery.

Love.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with you - it's wishful thinking. That said, I really do feel like they deserve a Finnish winger. They're an honest team, and they refused to mail it in. I like that about them, and I've liked it every year. It'd be great to see some luck in the lottery.

Love.

 

Karma would have the Oilers place 5 overall in picks.  They are forced to take a D-man.  The Flames karma would be to place 1st overall.  Bennett was their highest placement in the draft, so at some point the lotto gods (read hockey gods) reward honest play.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe in Karma, but you could definitely use the Oilers as an example of it working if you wanted to. Sure they won the lottery 4 times. But they would probably be a better team with Murray, Seguin, and Landeskog. Or at least you could have used them as an example until the last draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking about a trade with Arizona and if we did win the lottery and 1st over all.

 

to Ari.

1st OA

Wideman

Rammond

 

to Cal.

Ari 1st rnd pick

Rangers 1st rnd Pick

Christian Fischer RW 19 YO 6.1 212

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/christian-fischer

 

We now have potentially 3 1st rnd picks and cap space to bring in a goalie and a RW. I also see Christian as a top 6 in a year or 2.

 

Ari is not giving up too much for the rights to pick mathews.

 

 

That has to be the worst suggestion I have seen.  We give up a 1st overall to have someone take Wideman and Raymond for a year.

All we get back is a middling pick in the first round (Rangers), Arizona's (at best top 3), plus a prospect.  If we hung onto Wideman until TDL, we might get a decent pick back just for him.  

 

If the Flames ever made that trade, the pitchforks would be out in force.  If you are giving up a player like Matthews, the return should be at least 2nd overall, top prospects, and a young stud roster player.  Polluting the deal with Raymond and/or Wideman makes no sense.

Kind of a late reply to your post TD as most of what I was trying to accomplish with this trade has been brought up; but reply I will.

 

2017 without this trade.

Same team as last year except Matthews penciled in on the 2nd or third line.

We can't afford a top Goalie and RW even if we could trade some of our picks for them unless we do a cap dump trade. There are very few teams that can absorb an 8 mil cap dump (Ari. is one).

 

2017 with this trade

Add 8 + mil spending money 3 x 1st round picks = potential Goalie and RW problems solved.

I am not big on Mathews and would rather see laine as our pick.

The prospect Christian lit it up in his first year in the OHL and with 6 games in the AHL was impressive.

He could very well be better than either of the Finns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kind of a late reply to your post TD as most of what I was trying to accomplish with this trade has been brought up; but reply I will.

 

2017 without this trade.

Same team as last year except Matthews penciled in on the 2nd or third line.

We can't afford a top Goalie and RW even if we could trade some of our picks for them unless we do a cap dump trade. There are very few teams that can absorb an 8 mil cap dump (Ari. is one).

 

2017 with this trade

Add 8 + mil spending money 3 x 1st round picks = potential Goalie and RW problems solved.

I am not big on Mathews and would rather see laine as our pick.

The prospect Christian lit it up in his first year in the OHL and with 6 games in the AHL was impressive.

He could very well be better than either of the Finns.

 

We can accomplish a lot with retaining salary and buyouts.  If you are raffling off the 1st overall, I would hope that you get something more than a worse pick and about a 22nd overall pick + one prospect.  I don't think too many fans would be happy with that, and if the prospect was not an impact player, the GM would likely be toast.

 

I don't think things are dire enough to move down just to get rid of Wideman and Raymond's one year deals.  Wideman should not be viewed as a cap dump.  Raymond can be bought out or just buried.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You never know, Raymond could be attractive to an eastern team? Maybe we retain 1m of it and it's not as terrible. We'd save 2m in the process?

Wideman is doable. I think Stajan is too. That's as far as it goes. I don't see Smid as tradeable and maybe the only one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we lose sight of the fact that one teams bad contract is another teams bargain.

Stajan on our team has simply been passed on our depth chart making him a badly overpaid 4th lune centre.. But to another team he's a bargain 2Nd line centre who can rotate into the top line. I don't think he's as hard to move as some believe.

Wideman same thing. I believe he's totally moveable without retaining salary.

Raymond..well..if Toronto can clear the Clark's debacle anything is possible.some team needing to make the floor who wants to expose a large salary to the expansion draft might just be all over it

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we lose sight of the fact that one teams bad contract is another teams bargain.

Stajan on our team has simply been passed on our depth chart making him a badly overpaid 4th lune centre.. But to another team he's a bargain 2Nd line centre who can rotate into the top line. I don't think he's as hard to move as some believe.

Wideman same thing. I believe he's totally moveable without retaining salary.

Raymond..well..if Toronto can clear the Clark's debacle anything is possible.some team needing to make the floor who wants to expose a large salary to the expansion draft might just be all over it

Come to think of it, I actually think he has only been passed on the depth chart by Monahan and Backlund. Like others have said, he was used as a 4th liner to get players used to the NHL by sheltering them. Stajan played with the shat players because why would we want Bennett playing with them or any other young player.

Grant is a bit older and I doubt they see him as a scorer so he got 4th line time.

I think Stajan could be an affective 3rd liner but is a gamer doing what he is told.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stajan has been used as a fourth line centre for two years. That included a season where we made the second round of the playoffs. That isn't a scenario where a third line guy is on the fourth line so the kids can try out the third line.

Hopefully they can move him. But 3 million and two years for a guy that has been playing fourth line is a tough sell. The second season is the real killer as teams are real reluctant to take on any term on bad contracts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come to think of it, I actually think he has only been passed on the depth chart by Monahan and Backlund. Like others have said, he was used as a 4th liner to get players used to the NHL by sheltering them. Stajan played with the shat players because why would we want Bennett playing with them or any other young player.

Grant is a bit older and I doubt they see him as a scorer so he got 4th line time.

I think Stajan could be an affective 3rd liner but is a gamer doing what he is told.

Stajan has played just about all places in the lineup and any roles given him since he came here. He has played top line center, wings, and is presently asked to play energy 4th line. His recent and decent play when put on Backs line showed he is more than able to play on 2nd line and a heavy checking role.

 

Stajan is more than a depth player and more than just a 4th liner. He has been the veteran center for all our young centers and showing them how to be a pro too.

 

Ignore the naysayers, they can't see past the dollars of Stajans contract.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stajan is still a decent hockey player no one will dispute that, well most anyway, but his play has landed him on the 4th line nothing else. The Flames have tried to use him as a 3rd line center and his performance has been below average so they had to put him on the 4th line because they had better optoins. If Stajan played better he would force the issue, but he hasn't played well enough to do so. You are talking about a below avg 3rd line center on most teams in the NHL and I don't see many teams that are going to line up and pay that 3.15 for the next 2 seasons.

 

I agree with Kehatch, great if you can move him and I welcome them to try but I don't think its going to happen. There are many centers available in FA that can do what Stajan does and are probably going to sign for half of what he gets so why is a team going to trade for Stajan? Not to mention I would argue most teams in the league have a player on their resever list they would want to try before trading for Stajan.

 

Flames need to utilize the skills Stajan does have and work him into the lineup somehow. Work on his faceoffs so he can get that back and become an improtant PKer and then try him on the wing and hopefully that can negate some of his lost speed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be interested in seeing us taking a run at Alexander Khokhlachev.hes RFA but wants out of Boston and apparently willing to go back to Russia to do it.

Ironically he would have been in the Iggy deal, but he has been the leading scorer for Providence, and just not getting a shot.

He's listed as a center but sure he can play wing. He's a decent size, can definitely score.

Can probably get his rights real cheap.as NHL ready he could be a easy replacement for Stajan or Jooris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be interested in seeing us taking a run at Alexander Khokhlachev.hes RFA but wants out of Boston and apparently willing to go back to Russia to do it.

Ironically he would have been in the Iggy deal, but he has been the leading scorer for Providence, and just not getting a shot.

He's listed as a center but sure he can play wing. He's a decent size, can definitely score.

Can probably get his rights real cheap.as NHL ready he could be a easy replacement for Stajan or Jooris

I wouldn't pay more than a 4th for Khokhlachev. He is basically Granlund with less defensive awareness. I don't see him being much of factor at the NHL level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't pay more than a 4th for Khokhlachev. He is basically Granlund with less defensive awareness. I don't see him being much of factor at the NHL level.

Absolutely for a 4th I'd take that gamble. They'll basically move His rights for what they can get as I'm pretty sure he's made up his mind not to go back to Boston

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Id pass and I don't really care about the cost to be honest. I don't think he can stick in the NHL so you likely wind up giving up a 4th, or whatever, and then he heads back to Russia anyway. I think he is a top 6 or bust player so if he struggles what happens? His defnsive game isn't good enough to work him into the lineup or use him as a 3rd liner.

 

Personally, i'd keep the pick and give Flames prospects a chance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely for a 4th I'd take that gamble. They'll basically move His rights for what they can get as I'm pretty sure he's made up his mind not to go back to Boston

If you want to give him a try, perhaps as a throw-in on a bigger deal?  Not sure where we would guarantee him a spot, though?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...