Jump to content
The Official Site of the Calgary Flames
Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

Recommended Posts

CLB would do this cus they only have 7 million in cap space and have to resign Jones this year. This gives them no money to make any changes to a bottom 5 team. The saving next year gives them an ability to sign their rfa's as they arent loosing any significant money off the books to expiring contracts. They are tied up in cap dollars for a while. These contracts are not tradeable with the term associated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hartnell and Bobrovsky still have trade value so they aren't exactly cap dumps. They could trade either player without moving back in the draft. Wideman on the other hand is a pure cap dump. This trade makes zero sense from Columbus's point of view.

an almost 40 yest still productive winger, an injury prone high priced Goalie-- and the top 2 pairing , offensive  defenseman who can be productive on just about any team is the Obvious cap dump??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hartnell and Bobrovsky still have trade value so they aren't exactly cap dumps. They could trade either player without moving back in the draft. Wideman on the other hand is a pure cap dump. This trade makes zero sense from Columbus's point of view.

Actually Wideman is a useful player with 1 year term. As a RD there will be takers after they are rebuffed looking for a Trouba or Hamonic on the cheap based on old rumors.

 

Bob is an excellent goalie when not injured (which is frequently) with a 7.425 x 4 cap hit. I'm not sure that's a selling point in an off summer likely to feature a lot of goalies due to expansion fears. @ best a fall back situation for most teams.

 

My thoughts on Hartnell were said in a different post. I'd like him wearing the Flaming "C" as I figure the remaining 3 years are worthwhile.

Instead of giving up assets for MAF, what about helpin Columbus with their salary situation and upgrading for the number 3. We trade Wideman and 6th OA for Hartnell, Bobrowski and 3rd OA. Columbus get 6 mil saving this year and 12 mil next and the yr after. We get a top 6 RW of the future with 3rd OA. I find it a little steep of price for the flames so maybe a bit of retaining Bob or Hartnell's salary but a good starting off point to solve both teams problems

The BJs don't need Wideman as a 5th D.

Also leave Bob out of it as his injury history makes him a bad pickup.

 

#6 & an asset for #3 & Hartnell/cap saving makes most sense.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But didn't someone say that Hartnell had low actual $ compared to his hit? If they're more into saving money, the Cap hit isn't as much a problem.

My bet is Carolina would give more to save the actual dollars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But didn't someone say that Hartnell had low actual $ compared to his hit? If they're more into saving money, the Cap hit isn't as much a problem.

My bet is Carolina would give more to save the actual dollars.

Hartnell's true $s for the remaining  3 years are 5, 4.5 & 3.

 

BJs (& Flyers) would carry a small recapture penalty if Hartnell retired in year 3 @ 3.0 but so little as not to matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

an almost 40 yest still productive winger, an injury prone high priced Goalie-- and the top 2 pairing , offensive  defenseman who can be productive on just about any team is the Obvious cap dump??

 

Hartnell is 34 only a year older than Wideman, and put up 20 goals or more in 9 of the last 11 seasons and one of those was a lockout. Bobrovsky played 50 games the previous two seasons, yes he struggled with an injury last year but at 27 and with a Vezina in his back pocket he will rebound. Wideman isn't a top 4 defenseman anymore and was out played by Engelland last year.  So yes Wideman is the obvious cap dump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hartnell is 34 only a year older than Wideman, and put up 20 goals or more in 9 of the last 11 seasons and one of those was a lockout. Bobrovsky played 50 games the previous two seasons, yes he struggled with an injury last year but at 27 and with a Vezina in his back pocket he will rebound. Wideman isn't a top 4 defenseman anymore and was out played by Engelland last year.  So yes Wideman is the obvious cap dump.

 

So, what was the reason for Wideman's decline?  Age?  Playing on LD?  Inconsistent pairings?  An off year?  Missed too much time?

 

Wideman over the last 5 years:

2011-12  82g  11g  35a  46p

2012-13  46g  6g  16a  22p

2013-14  46g  4g  17a  21p

2014-15  80g  15g  41a  56p

2015-16  51g  2g  17a  19p

 

What should be somewhat obvious is that Wideman plays over 0.5 p/gp when he has a full season.  It's not that long ago he was top 10 in D scoring.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, what was the reason for Wideman's decline? Age? Playing on LD? Inconsistent pairings? An off year? Missed too much time?

Wideman over the last 5 years:

2011-12 82g 11g 35a 46p

2012-13 46g 6g 16a 22p

2013-14 46g 4g 17a 21p

2014-15 80g 15g 41a 56p

2015-16 51g 2g 17a 19p

What should be somewhat obvious is that Wideman plays over 0.5 p/gp when he has a full season. It's not that long ago he was top 10 in D scoring.

To me he lost a step, and he wasn't the fleetest of foot to begin with. Add to that he doesn't play near well enough defensively to counted on to play 20+min a night. He saw his minutes go down last year as the year wore on and I expect his minutes to go down a big chunk again next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hartnell is 34 only a year older than Wideman, and put up 20 goals or more in 9 of the last 11 seasons and one of those was a lockout. Bobrovsky played 50 games the previous two seasons, yes he struggled with an injury last year but at 27 and with a Vezina in his back pocket he will rebound. Wideman isn't a top 4 defenseman anymore and was out played by Engelland last year.  So yes Wideman is the obvious cap dump.

 

what are you going to say when BT trades him for something useful without any salary retention at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what are you going to say when BT trades him for something useful without any salary retention at all?

 

That BT deserves a raise for doing the impossible.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me he lost a step, and he wasn't the fleetest of foot to begin with. Add to that he doesn't play near well enough defensively to counted on to play 20+min a night. He saw his minutes go down last year as the year wore on and I expect his minutes to go down a big chunk again next year.

 

He played less because he was on the 3rd pairing.  Even so, he still was close to the minutes Hammy played (or more).  When he was suspended and injured 3 games after returning, he did see his minutes reduced.  :)

 

Nobody is trying to say he is still a great player.  He is no plug, though.  Compare what Pitts gave up in trade for Schultz.  Retained salary? Yes.  10 points in 45 games and a -22.  Pure rental.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So analyzing our team and our tradeable assets I've come to the conclusion that there is no sense trading away anything more than a 2nd and a middling prospect to move up 3 spots in the draft.

I would much rather use our assets to acquire a goalie or even just more prospects. Puljujarvi's name is too hard to pronounce anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He played less because he was on the 3rd pairing.  Even so, he still was close to the minutes Hammy played (or more).  When he was suspended and injured 3 games after returning, he did see his minutes reduced.   :)

 

Nobody is trying to say he is still a great player.  He is no plug, though.  Compare what Pitts gave up in trade for Schultz.  Retained salary? Yes.  10 points in 45 games and a -22.  Pure rental.  

 

Difference with Schultz is that is still young at 25 and is still a very good skater, and still has some upside and with 50% retained at the deadline his cap hit was was very little.

 

Wideman is a 3rd pairing guy at 33, with his skating in decline, which isn't great for an offensive defenseman and he is owed a lot of money next season. We can't wait till the deadline to move him, we need his salary gone now to improve this team going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Difference with Schultz is that is still young at 25 and is still a very good skater, and still has some upside and with 50% retained at the deadline his cap hit was was very little.

 

Wideman is a 3rd pairing guy at 33, with his skating in decline, which isn't great for an offensive defenseman and he is owed a lot of money next season. We can't wait till the deadline to move him, we need his salary gone now to improve this team going forward.

 

No, he's a 3rd pairing because we have Hammy as the 2nd pair RD.  Put him with a competent LD, and you have an okay defender.

A deadline rental costs money.  Jultz was a complete bust last year.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That BT deserves a raise for doing the impossible.

You just may have to make that statement soon:)

The only reason Wideman has to go is his salary, on our team. Not many had an issue with him before we got Hamilton.

Point is, like ive said before, he can be valuable to another team.the fact hes ufa after one season also makes him attractive. Teams can walk away, get return at TDL, or resign him.

To us, hes too expensive and too far down the depth chart..other teams he would be a first pairing guy.

Time will obviously tell, but I still believe we move him without a negative return

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You just may have to make that statement soon:)

The only reason Wideman has to go is his salary, on our team. Not many had an issue with him before we got Hamilton.

Point is, like ive said before, he can be valuable to another team.the fact hes ufa after one season also makes him attractive. Teams can walk away, get return at TDL, or resign him.

To us, hes too expensive and too far down the depth chart..other teams he would be a first pairing guy.

Time will obviously tell, but I still believe we move him without a negative return

I hope you are right, I just don't see it.

I don't which team he would be a 1st pairing guy on, maybe a 2nd pairing guy on a terrible team like Toronto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope you are right, I just don't see it.

I don't which team he would be a 1st pairing guy on, maybe a 2nd pairing guy on a terrible team like Toronto.

 

As a 2nd pairing guy playing on one of the two PP units, he would be fine as long as he had an adequate partner.  His PP success this year was indicative of the overall success of the Flames PP.  It wasn't that good, but it wasn't just Wideman's fault.

 

He is not that good defensively.  You could say the same about Hammy early in the year, or at times later in the year.  Offensive D-men make choices that will come back to bite them if the team does not cover.  2014/15 Russell was able to do that, while he wasn't doing that good a job this year.  

 

Anyway, I just see him being a RHS to a team needing one or needing a guy to play on the PP, or both.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a 2nd pairing guy playing on one of the two PP units, he would be fine as long as he had an adequate partner.  His PP success this year was indicative of the overall success of the Flames PP.  It wasn't that good, but it wasn't just Wideman's fault.

 

He is not that good defensively.  You could say the same about Hammy early in the year, or at times later in the year.  Offensive D-men make choices that will come back to bite them if the team does not cover.  2014/15 Russell was able to do that, while he wasn't doing that good a job this year.  

 

Anyway, I just see him being a RHS to a team needing one or needing a guy to play on the PP, or both.  

Agree he has value, and with only one year left on the contract he could be dealt at the TDL if a team wanted to (as can we).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree he has value, and with only one year left on the contract he could be dealt at the TDL if a team wanted to (as can we).

 

That's a lot of salary to carry if we can't get rid of Stajan, Raymond, Smid and Bollig.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless the Flames are going to be able to land a starting goalie that cost 3 mill or less, then I estimate they need to clear at least 2-3 million to make other improvements and leave themselves some room for injuries/bonus etc. So unless they are able to land someone like that I think they need to move someone this offseason or if Smid is heading to LTIR (and I'm not going to bank on that) they would be fine then too.

 

But I strongly suspect you are going to see some salay cleared out this offseason and it will be at least in the 2-3 million range. I don't think the Flames will limit their options in net.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless the Flames are going to be able to land a starting goalie that cost 3 mill or less, then I estimate they need to clear at least 2-3 million to make other improvements and leave themselves some room for injuries/bonus etc. So unless they are able to land someone like that I think they need to move someone this offseason or if Smid is heading to LTIR (and I'm not going to bank on that) they would be fine then too.

 

But I strongly suspect you are going to see some salay cleared out this offseason and it will be at least in the 2-3 million range. I don't think the Flames will limit their options in net.

 

That leaves very few options as is.  Andersen and Reimer.  Possibly some guy that is a backup.  I would actually prefer Andersen and some backup.  Stack the deck.  Get rid of as much salary now as possible.  Trade some away if possible.  No Regher/Kotalik trading to lose a crap salary though.  

 

Would consider sending Raymond and a 3rd (or late 2nd) for Fleury.  Or Stajan and pick.  But still should be clearing salary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That leaves very few options as is. Andersen and Reimer. Possibly some guy that is a backup. I would actually prefer Andersen and some backup. Stack the deck. Get rid of as much salary now as possible. Trade some away if possible. No Regher/Kotalik trading to lose a crap salary though.

Would consider sending Raymond and a 3rd (or late 2nd) for Fleury. Or Stajan and pick. But still should be clearing salary.

Andersen will most likely cost $5mill+ a season on his new contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andersen will most likely cost $5mill+ a season on his new contract.

 

Fair enough.  I think maybe a little less due to middling SA%, but regardless.....

 

It really lowers the choices to Elliott (one year remaining) or guys like Enhoth, Hutch, Vasilevskiy (one year remaining).  Guys like that that will possibly cost more in assets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vasilevsky kind of reminds me of a Ramo, he also cheats a bit off his post, but has more upside. A young goalie with his upside would be a good fit. If any of our prospects rise then we have good trade chips in the future and we get to decide who to keep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...