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Jessemadnote39

Realistic Trade suggestions for improvement

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I think Sigalet takes alot of unfair blame on these boards because people want a scapegoat. Reality is, the primary reason the Flames goaltending sucked this year was Hiller. Ramo had a slow start but he's had slow starts every year since he has been here. I think the fact that both Ramo and Ortio bounced back after tough starts speaks more to the positives about Sigalet as the goalie coach, then Hiller falling off the face of the earth does. It is surprising how much HIller's play fell off, but the fact that his play fell off shouldn't be a suprise as its been slowly happening for many years and IMO Hiller's 2nd half the previous season wasn't great either. 

 

Can't blame coaches for everthing.

Agreed

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I think Sigalet takes alot of unfair blame on these boards because people want a scapegoat. Reality is, the primary reason the Flames goaltending sucked this year was Hiller. Ramo had a slow start but he's had slow starts every year since he has been here. I think the fact that both Ramo and Ortio bounced back after tough starts speaks more to the positives about Sigalet as the goalie coach, then Hiller falling off the face of the earth does. It is surprising how much HIller's play fell off, but the fact that his play fell off shouldn't be a suprise as its been slowly happening for many years and IMO Hiller's 2nd half the previous season wasn't great either. 

 

Can't blame coaches for everthing.

 

Either Hartley or JS has to take the blame for the "schedule" they used to start goalies.  Either it was a bad choice for who gets the start or a poor choice to go with a schedule.  I don't really think JS is a bad goalie coach.  He got results from less-than-ideal goalies available.  I would give him a year with the new goalie we get to see.

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I think Sigalet takes alot of unfair blame on these boards because people want a scapegoat. Reality is, the primary reason the Flames goaltending sucked this year was Hiller. Ramo had a slow start but he's had slow starts every year since he has been here. I think the fact that both Ramo and Ortio bounced back after tough starts speaks more to the positives about Sigalet as the goalie coach, then Hiller falling off the face of the earth does. It is surprising how much HIller's play fell off, but the fact that his play fell off shouldn't be a suprise as its been slowly happening for many years and IMO Hiller's 2nd half the previous season wasn't great either. 

 

Can't blame coaches for everthing.

 

 

I agree as well.. cant explain Hiller..  i recall how bitter he was that the Ducks gave up on him , then came in here with a massive chip on his shoulder and played well..

 then when they resigned Ramo, and it was apparent he was being shopped for trade.. he just lost all ability to care. instead of fighting to prove them wrong , he just coasted .. he looked pretty void of emotion all year long 

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Either Hartley or JS has to take the blame for the "schedule" they used to start goalies.  Either it was a bad choice for who gets the start or a poor choice to go with a schedule.  I don't really think JS is a bad goalie coach.  He got results from less-than-ideal goalies available.  I would give him a year with the new goalie we get to see.

 Personally i think the "schedule " was a lie..   it was just a way to explain things to the media.

 

I read on another board somewhere, an insider who works in the Flames office mentioned that BH and BT did argue a lot .. and one was about how BT "stuck him with 3 goaltenders".. .. its the only thing that makes sense that he kept riding "BT's guy" in Hiller even when he knew he was awful.

Just like apparently (and i heard this on FAN 960 too) that he would dismiss many of Gelinas ideas ..

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 Personally i think the "schedule " was a lie..   it was just a way to explain things to the media.

 

I read on another board somewhere, an insider who works in the Flames office mentioned that BH and BT did argue a lot .. and one was about how BT "stuck him with 3 goaltenders".. .. its the only thing that makes sense that he kept riding "BT's guy" in Hiller even when he knew he was awful.

Just like apparently (and i heard this on FAN 960 too) that he would dismiss many of Gelinas ideas ..

 

As I said, I would give him a year.  If he is the one making goalie decisions, then he has to live with the results.  Last year is a free pass.

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As I said, I would give him a year.  If he is the one making goalie decisions, then he has to live with the results.  Last year is a free pass.

I still dont know, recall, or understand why we got rid of Marcoux.. but agreed, I think as well that hes on  a leash now.

 

For all we know he may have been one of the people who threw BT under the bus .. (" i dont know , I kept telling him not to play Hiller ")

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I still dont know, recall, or understand why we got rid of Marcoux.. but agreed, I think as well that hes on  a leash now.

 

For all we know he may have been one of the people who threw BT under the bus .. (" i dont know , I kept telling him not to play Hiller ")

 

See and i'm the opposite, I never understood why people saw so much in Marcoux. Marcoux got Kipper to play well but basicaly every other goalie in the organization either stagnanted or went backwards under Marcoux. Getting a goalie the talent of Kipper to play wel isn't much of a feat either IMO and IMO its as important for the goalie coach to be developing the other goalies than getting the starter to play well. 

 

The only problem I had with the goalies last year was that they couldn't settle on 2 to start the year and i'm very skeptical Siigalet had much to do with that.

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With all this NHL lawsuit stuff happening behind the scenes on Wideman, my gut feeling is no NHL team wants him.  Ironically, he's the only player on the team that doesn't need a NMC.

 

When it comes to Colborne, i hope we can get him signed around $1.5-mil-per.  If not, then we need to walk away from his rights.  End of story.  We cannot give him anywhere close to $2.5-mil and give him term.  He never produced this past season until the Flames were officially eliminated from the playoffs and there was no more pressure to score goals.  When we needed him most, he couldn't get it done.  Moreover, i prefer Bouma to Colborne in almost all situations and I feel Shinkaruk deserves a spot on the team to start the season.  There's basically no room on LW or C for Colborne.

No, he's definitely earned a big raise, but since its his best year and the Flames have a 1-year cap crunch, perhaps they can get him for a 1-2yr deal at ~$2.5mm.

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No, he's definitely earned a big raise, but since its his best year and the Flames have a 1-year cap crunch, perhaps they can get him for a 1-2yr deal at ~$2.5mm.

 

He's earned his raise and that's the problem.  We can't fit a fringe second line LW at $2.5-mil in our cap situation.

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He's earned his raise and that's the problem.  We can't fit a fringe second line LW at $2.5-mil in our cap situation.

That may be true. Still to be determined. Once we get full rules and disclosure on Wednesday about expansion a few more things will clear up.

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Thought I’d have a go...
Im more than likely well off the mark and probably have some over/under payments but i have tried to make it equitable for all involved.

 

To Calgary

·         Pick 3

·         Scott Hartnel – 4.75M

 

 

Calgary Take on $1.17M and pick 3 in the draft.

 

To Columbus

·         Pick 5

·         Rights to Wotherspoon - RFA

·         Mikael Backlund - $3.57M

·         Pick 56 – CGY

 

Columbus save $1.17M and gain pick 5 and pick 56.

 

To Vancouver

·         Pick 6 OA

·         Boone Jenner - $2.9M

·         Rights to Tyler Wotherspoon - RFA

·         Pick 32 – CBJ

 

Vancouver take on 2.9M, the rights to Wotherspoon as well as pick 6 and 32 in the draft.

 

If Calgary can shed one of the contracts of Wideman/Raymond or have Smid go on LTIR or retire $1.17M shouldn’t be a lot of trouble to take on.

 

I can’t see Columbus having an issue with acquiring Backlund, pick 5 and pick 56 in exchange for pick3 and Calgary taking on a bad contract.

 

This is where it gets a bit sticky, it will be hard to convince Vancouver to (1) help Calgary move up in the draft, (2) Move down a spot in the draft and (3) have the ability to take on the 2.9M however they get compensated with 2 picks (6 & 32) and a young centre who put up 49 points in his 3rd year and the option of signing Wotherspoon.

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Essentially Vancouver is getting Jenner, a high second, and a okay prospect to move down one spot. Calgary is giving up Backlund, a second, and an okay prospect to move up 3 spots and take a crazy contract on. Columbus is giving up Jenner and moving out of the top 3 to clear a contract and get Backlund.

Vancouver makes out like bandits in this deal. I am not sure why Vancouver is even involves in the deal except to loot the other two. A move between Calgary and Columbus makes much more sense.

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Essentially Vancouver is getting Jenner, a high second, and a okay prospect to move down one spot. Calgary is giving up Backlund, a second, and an okay prospect to move up 3 spots and take a crazy contract on. Columbus is giving up Jenner and moving out of the top 3 to clear a contract and get Backlund.

Vancouver makes out like bandits in this deal. I am not sure why Vancouver is even involves in the deal except to loot the other two. A move between Calgary and Columbus makes much more sense.

 

Agreed and Columbus is not moving Boone jenner and if they did they would get a big return for him. i would consider Jenner an upgrade to backlund personally 

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What Columbus needs is a number one centre thst helps immediately.

Rather then move down what about something like Bennett, the 35 pick, and Wideman with 2 million retained for the 3 pick and Hartnell?

It hurts losing Bennett but now your picking at 3 and at 6. Plus the Flames get rid of Wideman and have an upgrade at wing with Hartnell. We also don't need to be talking about trading Backlund because now the Flames can afford to keep him.

Bennett is a similar caliber prospect to Puljujarvi but he is at centre and two years closer. Plus they clear the Hartnell contract and get a bit of cap space immediately.

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It's a fair deal, IMO but one I don't make. I'm not moving Sam Bennett. 

 

Same.

 

The goal is to complete Monahan and Bennett's lines.  Trading away one of them defeats the whole purpose of getting Puljujarvi in the first place.

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I am not sure I would do it. But I would sure think about it. It spreads out the contracts for the Flames, let's us keep Backlund, and we deal from a position of strength to improve an area of weakness.

It's a tough call. But it is a move I would consider.

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I am not sure I would do it. But I would sure think about it. It spreads out the contracts for the Flames, let's us keep Backlund, and we deal from a position of strength to improve an area of weakness.

It's a tough call. But it is a move I would consider.

I agree, it is a tough call.  With 3OA you pick Puljujarvi, with 6OA you pick either PLD/Brown/Keller/Jost to replace Bennett in at most two years.  In addition you get rid of Wideman and pick up Hartnell for another RW spot.  I think the team is better but I don't like giving up on Bennett, though I would seriously consider it.  If you moved the pick to 54/56 and forgot retaining Wideman salary I'd be more inclined to do so, and I think it is more fair since we'd be taking more of the risk with age and draft picks.

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What Columbus needs is a number one centre thst helps immediately.

Rather then move down what about something like Bennett, the 35 pick, and Wideman with 2 million retained for the 3 pick and Hartnell?

It hurts losing Bennett but now your picking at 3 and at 6. Plus the Flames get rid of Wideman and have an upgrade at wing with Hartnell. We also don't need to be talking about trading Backlund because now the Flames can afford to keep him.

Bennett is a similar caliber prospect to Puljujarvi but he is at centre and two years closer. Plus they clear the Hartnell contract and get a bit of cap space immediately.

The problem I have with this pick is trading a potential #1 center for a winger.  I have less problems trading the future #3 center on this team, but it may not get it done.  If you trade Bennett, I think what you would see is a line similar to Backlund's line this season; good defensively, but not great offense.

 

It hurts trading Backlund.  In a few years, we would be ahead.  Maybe even sooner.

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The problem I have with this pick is trading a potential #1 center for a winger. I have less problems trading the future #3 center on this team, but it may not get it done. If you trade Bennett, I think what you would see is a line similar to Backlund's line this season; good defensively, but not great offense.

It hurts trading Backlund. In a few years, we would be ahead. Maybe even sooner.

It's not Bennett or Backlund. It's Bennett or Backlund + Nylander.

I don't see Backlund as even being a fit in Columbus. I also see him as huge overpayment to move up 3 spots. The trade of Backlund and the 6 for the 3 doesn't make any sense in my opinion.

Losing Bennett hurts. But adding Hartnell and Puljujarvi to RW and getting out of the Wideman deal (along with a trade for a goalie or two) makes us better.

I do agree that centre for winger is a concern. It really comes down to how the Flames project Puljujarvi and Bennett.

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Bennett for Pulju is a terrible trade. Pulju doesn't come close to Bennetts compete level, scoring pedigree or work ethic. He's a good prospect but an NHLE of 12 points makes me think everyone has their blinders on due to 7 games at the world juniors.

Offer a 2nd +6 or let him go to Columbus and score 20 points. Bennett is a Flame. Let's keep it that way.

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Bennett for Pulju is a terrible trade. Pulju doesn't come close to Bennetts compete level, scoring pedigree or work ethic. He's a good prospect but an NHLE of 12 points makes me think everyone has their blinders on due to 7 games at the world juniors.

Offer a 2nd +6 or let him go to Columbus and score 20 points. Bennett is a Flame. Let's keep it that way.

You have a point, which may be CBJ's concern. Besides the Jrs he was also outstanding at the U18s.

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It's a fair deal, IMO but one I don't make. I'm not moving Sam Bennett. 

This be a way out there suggestion but what putting next year's 1st round pick into the mix ?

Our #6, next year's 1st round pick, Bouma and Poirier for the #3 (Puljujarvi), Hartnell, and Rychel.

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This be a way out there suggestion but what putting next year's 1st round pick into the mix ?

Our #6, next year's 1st round pick, Bouma and Poirier for the #3 (Puljujarvi), Hartnell, and Rychel.

 

If you made it lotto protected, that might fly from our side.  It still doesn't address their need for a top center, but not much will.  Top centers don't get traded for a draft pick.  And they can't even take a player like Nuge (2/3 center) due to salary.  Hartnell alone doesn't get you that either.

 

They blew it when they traded away Carter and then RJ.

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If you made it lotto protected, that might fly from our side.  It still doesn't address their need for a top center, but not much will.  Top centers don't get traded for a draft pick.  And they can't even take a player like Nuge (2/3 center) due to salary.  Hartnell alone doesn't get you that either.

 

They blew it when they traded away Carter and then RJ.

They might still be able to get Dubois or Brown with the #6 pick and deal Hartnell to dump salary.

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